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[fresquito]

Other cars' lights are not faked, they just don't cast shadows.

Erms... no? See, I'm not trying to downplay anything, but what you're saying is factually wrong. Other cars light act quite differently than the player's (think Crysis or MGS light from guards).

 

[le-seb]

Erms... no? See, I'm not trying to downplay anything, but what you're saying is factually wrong. Other cars light act quite differently than the player's (think Crysis or MGS light from guards).

I have absolutely no idea what these look like, and I haven't noticed any discrepancy playing the game.
Care to elaborate?

 

[LukasTaves]

I can't speak for DC o PCars, but the smoke/dirt/particles all appear to be affected by light and shadow in FH2.

Even the tail lights when braking light up the smoke with a red haze.

Love how the dirt billows out in this first one, catching the light and shadows

Ask and you shall recieve, lol.

From the first gif it also seems there is some sort of indirect lighting going on. When the car is in the sand it has a yellow tint that goes away when it goes to the road. But it doesn't seem very accurate as it doesn't change at all when it goes from shadow to light,

 

[fresquito]

I have absolutely no idea what these look like.
Care to elaborate?

They iluminate the ground of a certain area in front of them, but don't work as real time light sources. It can clearly be seen in far ahead cars not enlightening the enviroment (it's dark until the player car arrives). It can also be seen on the enviroment behind the player being dark despite having a car near. I'm guessing having real time lights and GI was really taxing.

 

[le-seb]

They iluminate the ground of a certain area in front of them, but don't work as real time light sources. It can clearly be seen in far ahead cars not enlightening the enviroment (it's dark until the player car arrives). It can also be seen on the enviroment behind the player being dark despite having a car near. I'm guessing having real time lights and GI was really taxing.

Okay, I see what you mean now, and there's indeed some trickery at work here.
I think I've been fooled by the fact that AI cars seem to properly cast light over other cars.

 

[adelante]

Having the whole scene lighting change with the sun positions, while it's technically correct to call global illumination, people usually refer to this term when using any sort of indirect lighting with at least a single bounce... I mainly ask because if they are using it must be very subtle, I can't actually see no evidence of the effect in play.

Yeah. This is exactly what I meant by my post in the previous page. I've never heard anyone from Evo saying they've incorporated indirect lighting into their engine nor have they highlighted such a feature.

In Forza 5, the effect is completely static, but it's very noticeable (examples: http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles/a/1/5/9/1/1/2/0/Forza_028.bmp.jpg, notice how the inner of the building is lit by the road, even though it's not directly illuminated by the sun)

Just a correction, though: many games that use GI, even the ones who use pre baked solutions do support sun position changes, it's usually dynamic geometry that gives them trouble (which is not that much of a problem as games have mostly static scenery anyway). And crytek solution is completely dynamic, it actually supports both sun position changes and dynamic geometry, though it has other limitations.

From the first gif it also seems there is some sort of indirect lighting going on. When the car is in the sand it has a yellow tint that goes away when it goes to the road. But it doesn't seem very accurate as it doesn't change at all when it goes from shadow to light,

I think that's due to the image-based lighting system they introduced in Forza 4. It's pretty evident in the Prague track in F5, specifically the tunnel section with all the pillars. You see the cars changing to a warmer hue to match the lighting in that section.

 

[Coolbgdog12]

Have to love the 458.





The lighting is top notch in DC, which helps a lot in those pans and in motion. It just looks so bad texture wise to me though (not talking color pallet/temp here like some though...I think it's excellent). It loses it's allure when you sit still and even in motion on straights with distant objects. Blurry roads, blurry rocks, blurry grass/plants (unless at a perfect distance) texture wise. I've not seen anything that looks great up close, and the early morning/evening and night is when it looks best and those textures are masked by the lack of light.

Uhh no.

The textures are not bad at all. Nothing is blurry it's because in motion there's a strong motion blur at work but in stills they look crisp.


Here

The game needs the photo mode update asap.

 

[fresquito]

Uhh no.

The textures are not bad at all. Nothing is blurry it's because in motion there's a strong motion blur at work but in stills they look crisp.

Here

The game needs the photo mode update asap.

If anything those prove his point.

 

[orava]

This is how the smoke shadowing currently works in pcars. Not as nice as in forza and light color does not affect it.

http://a.pomf.se/uywfxx.webm

http://a.pomf.se/ubqlpk.webm

Lost a tire there for some reason..

 

[benzy]

And both games seen to have poor windscreen effects during rain. Going at any sort of speed during a race, you'd need fast wipers and still have poor visibility. Both games just seem to pop a few pretty drops on the windscreen for effect and they don't even move up the screen.

Evo haven't shown us the cockpit view with wipers in any rain footage yet though.

 

[KOHIPEET]

They're not reflected in other cars, but that's something you can't see in that gif. They're not reflected at the moment, it doesn't mean the reflection will not be implemented (I'm not saying it will either, just stating the obvious: WiP, not final game). What you probably are looking for is streched light impostors not being cut by cars. From what I've read they're trying to find a solution, but will probably not find it before release.

You're probably right. It looks odd, but I guess it looks the same in every other game too, so...PCars looks good anyway, it was just this gif that had something strange about it.

 

[Gestault]

Uhh no. The textures are not bad at all. Nothing is blurry it's because in motion there's a strong motion blur at work but in stills they look crisp.

Here.

I think it's more a case of a lack of AF than simply low-res textures, but your examples didn't seem like a strong retort.

 

[KOHIPEET]

Erms... no? See, I'm not trying to downplay anything, but what you're saying is factually wrong. Other cars light act quite differently than the player's (think Crysis or MGS light from guards).

I think in this video around 0:58 it can bee seen as the car in the first place illuminates its surroundings with its headlamps.

I might be wrong though. The bitrate of this video is low.

 

[ninjablade]

If anything those prove his point.

no kidding those pics look pretty bad.

 

[mrklaw]

Evo haven't shown us the cockpit view with wipers in any rain footage yet though.

Yeah sorry, got mixed up with hood cam.

 

[Gestault]

no kidding those pics look pretty bad.

Doesn't matter, got cool twisty trees.

 

[AndyD]

I think in this video around 0:58 it can bee seen as the car in the first place illuminates its surroundings with its headlamps.

I might be wrong though. The bitrate of this video is low.

I think he is saying that it does not happen at long distances. And that is correct. But I think that is a "level of detail at distance" matter, not a lighting engine matter. Could be wrong.

 

[eso76]

From the first gif it also seems there is some sort of indirect lighting going on. When the car is in the sand it has a yellow tint that goes away when it goes to the road. But it doesn't seem very accurate as it doesn't change at all when it goes from shadow to light,

Forza 5 (and to some extent 4) was doing indirect lighting.
Actually, its that image based lighting T10 has been talking about for a while.
In my short time with forza 5 I definitely saw that at work, particularly in Prague.
The area before entering the tunnel, and right after that especially, there's a short segment of track surrounded by red buildings that will give cars a red tint. Wandering off road in the tgtt will give your car a green tint from light reflected on the grass etc.
It seems to be somewhat buggy though, as in it doesn't always trigger.

Also, from the vids, it looks like there's a bug in FH2 that sometimes cause cars not to receive shadows: they'll look as if they are sitting in direct sunlight even when they are in the shadow cast by a mountain. Doesn't always happen though.

 

[Dictator93]

From the first gif it also seems there is some sort of indirect lighting going on. When the car is in the sand it has a yellow tint that goes away when it goes to the road. But it doesn't seem very accurate as it doesn't change at all when it goes from shadow to light,

THose are not shadows drawing through particles. That is just per vertex particle shading.

 

[fresquito]

I think in this video around 0:58 it can bee seen as the car in the first place illuminates its surroundings with its headlamps.

I might be wrong though. The bitrate of this video is low.

Maybe they have limited the number of cars that actually project lights? Or maybe it's a more complex trick like an small cone that alsso works on the sorroundings when the car is close enough.

I think he is saying that it does not happen at long distances. And that is correct. But I think that is a "level of detail at distance" matter, not a lighting engine matter. Could be wrong.

I'm not saying it's a distance problem. since the car behind isn't lighting the enviroment either. I don't have the game so I can't test what's going on here, but I'd put my hand on the fire they're not working as real time light sources or, in the case they are, they're limited in number, probably to one, two or three cars near you.

Anyway, the trick is mostly convincing and probably nobody will realise, so who cares. Maybe in a different kind of tracks/game it would be more evident (closed tracks where you can see another part of the circuit, for istance). But even in those cases you'd only notice something if they were working real time. You'd hardly even notice the cars themselves if the effect was faked. So kudos to Evo for finding a way to fake an effect and save resources for more obvious things.

 

[benzy]

If anything those prove his point.

But in comparison to FH2? What do FH2's plants and grass look like at a stand still? Even in photomode with zero motion blur and no DOF, they still exhibit the "blurry roads, blurry rocks, blurry grass/plants textures" that Shandy views for DC.

Here are some FH2 photomode pics from the photothread in comparison. First pic is from Shandy.

Poor AF and blurry roads.

 

[Stinkles]

"Oh you!"

 

[fresquito]

But in comparison to FH2?

No, they're subpar textures to the system they're running on. You could argue you don't need higher quality textures in a racing game, that would be debatable. It's not debatable DC's textures are subpar. FH2 texturesm, going by your post, are also subpar, but some pages ago someone posted FH2 textures that looked quite good, so I will take yours with a grain of salt. Maybe this (FH2) is a case of inconsistency?

BTW, I never talked about grass or vegetation in my post.

 

[benzy]

"Oh you!"

Hey man, in every shot I've seen of those types of trees that's how they look. If anyone can post photomode shots of them up close you're welcome to. Do they not contain the blurry textures that's a complaint for DC?

 

[benzy]

No, they're subpar textures to the system they're running on. You could argue you don't need higher quality textures in a racing game, that would be debatable. It's not debatable DC's textures are subpar.

It's actualy pretty debateable DC has better textures in areas than FH2.

FH2 texturesm, going by your post, are also subpar, but some pages ago someone posted FH2 textures that looked quite good, so I will take yours with a grain of salt. Maybe this (FH2) is a case of inconsistency?

BTW, I never talked about grass or vegetation in my post.

You just said Coolbgdog's pictures prove Shandy's point about blurry textures, including vegetation/grass,roads etc. No need to retract that now.

 

[shandy706]

It's actualy pretty debateable DC has better textures in areas than FH2.

My post was on close inspection from a few feet away.

Like this.

I actually saw some better looking (compared to other shots in DC) roads in DC earlier today. Both games have some rough spots.

I've yet to see a DC texture that rivals some of the best textures in FH2. FH2 definitely has some bad ones here and there. Same with the trees.

I was pointing out that DC looks really messy/blurry when stopping to look at things when compared to stopping to look at things in FH2 on average. It's easy for me to take a good shot in FH2 at vanilla settings, no DOF, no aperture/shutter speed changes...I'm not sure the same can be said for DC.

Take this sitting still shot for example. The texture right at the car looks alright, but everything else is just an absolute mess.

While in motion with incredible lighting I think DC has a higher "high" than FH2, but on average, and especially at it's worse, I don't understand why it looks like it does. The textures should be mind-blowing even at a stand still. They aren't on par with the rest of the visual package.

The superb lighting and clouds may take up a truckload of memory though.

 

[benzy]

My post was on close inspection from a few feet away.



I actually saw some better looking (compared to other shots in DC) roads in DC earlier today. Both games have some rough spots.

I've yet to see a DC texture that rivals some of the best textures in FH2. FH2 definitely has some bad ones here and there. Same with the trees.

I was pointing out that DC looks really messy/blurry when stopping to look at things when compared to stopping to look at things in FH2 on average. It's easy for me to take a good shot in FH2 at vanilla settings, no DOF, no aperture/shutter speed changes...I'm not sure the same can be said for DC.

Take this sitting still shot for example. The texture right at the car looks alright, but everything else is just an absolute mess.

While in motion with incredible lighting I think DC has a higher "high" than FH2, but on average, and especially at it's worse, I don't understand why it looks like it does. The textures should be mind-blowing even at a stand still. They aren't on par with the rest of the visual package.

The superb lighting and clouds may take up a truckload of memory though.

You can stop and look at things up close as well in DC and view the intricate details in the textures. The rock textures probably aren't the best I agree. As I said before though, the problem is the texture filtering at a distance. It's apparent in FH2 as well. But if you get up close the textures will appear crisp with no aliasing issues. The close up textures of FH2 you posted before are really really good, but the texture filtering for distanced objects isn't a problem that's exclusive to DC. Even up close and at some distances DC's grass isn't a jaggy mess like that image. Objects that get rendered in small lines in DC turn into a jaggy mess in screens.

 

[Gestault]

Plant on the right looks awesome.

 

[JaggedSac]

Is the tardis a playable vehicle? That looks like a time vortex.

 

[Stinkles]

Hey man, in every shot I've seen of those types of trees that's how they look. If anyone can post photomode shots of them up close you're welcome to. Do they not contain the blurry textures that's a complaint for DC?

I was just talking about the pose balloon guy is in.

 

[Gestault]

I was just talking about the pose balloon guy is in.

lol

 

[fresquito]

It's actualy pretty debateable DC has better textures in areas than FH2.

You just said Coolbgdog's pictures prove Shandy's point about blurry textures, including vegetation/grass,roads etc. No need to retract that now.

What am I exactly retracting? You're the one talking about FH2 here. I never mentioned FH2, I just said textures in DC are subpar in general. I wasn't comparing them to FH2, but what the medium and the console have on offer. Why you need to turn everything said against DC in a confrontation with FH2 is beyond my understanding.

 

[jett]

Driveclub has good textures, technically, but the end result is that they're destroyed by awful AF.

 

[VanWinkle]

Driveclub has good textures, technically, but the end result is that they're destroyed by awful AF.

Yeah a lot of the textures actually look GREAT, but, as you say, the effect is ruined by having such bad AF. Not so much the wall and foliage, but anything on the ground.

 

[fresquito]

Driveclub has good textures, technically, but the end result is that they're destroyed by awful AF.

Let me disagree.

Trilinear

AF x16

See how these are closer to the ground. This next one is from chasse camera, it's quite higher than DC's, but you get the idea.

AF x16

I don't want to start a texture war. I think PC has an impressive texture work, but I'd say the standard of what you can consider good textures is closer to PC than DC.

 

[benzy]

What am I exactly retracting? You're the one talking about FH2 here. I never mentioned FH2, I just said textures in DC are subpar in general. I wasn't comparing them to FH2, but what the medium and the console have on offer.

I guess I read your post out of context then. My bad man. You replied to a post that replied to Shandy's post, I should have just quoted Shandy's post.

Why you need to turn everything said against DC in a confrontation with FH2 is beyond my understanding.

That's what DC is being compared to in other members' posts, and the faults mentioned for DC as to why it looks worst aren't applied to FH2 when the comparisons are made. I'm only simply replying to those comments. It's not like I compare DC to FH2 out of nothing, when those comment mention FH2 in them. Blurry textures, lack of AF, vegetation and grass, well, the lack of consistency in those areas appears in both games.

I was just talking about the pose balloon guy is in.

lol

Can't unsee it now. lol The same pose is found in all of the ballons.

 

[benzy]

Let me disagree.

Trilinear
http://i2.minus.com/iUVHz9n4eyoR1.jpg

AF x16
http://i6.minus.com/ibhWxtcE3DPSDq.jpg

See how these are closer to the ground. This next one is from chasse camera, it's quite higher than DC's, but you get the idea.

AF x16
http://i2.minus.com/igPbr50ie7cTg.jpg

I don't want to start a texture war. I think PC has an impressive texture work, but I'd say the standard of what you can consider good textures is closer to PC than DC.

I'm switching between the trilinear and 16x AF images and I'm not seeing much of a difference, not that either one is particularly impressive looking imo. I've seen some supersampled PC tarmac and grass textures that are incredibly realistic but I'm not sure how those look in gameplay. Either way, you really don't think DC's textures can even be considered "good"? They even implemented a mineral material that reflects and sparkles with the sunlight as it would in real life.

 

[VanWinkle]

I'm switching between the trilinear and 16x AF images and I'm not seeing much of a difference, not that either one is particularly impressive looking imo. I've seen some supersampled PC tarmac and grass textures that are incredibly realistic but I'm not sure how those look in gameplay. Either way, you really don't think DC's textures can even be considered "good"? They even implemented a mineral material that reflects and sparkles with the sunlight as it would in real life.

Yup, and they have all kinds of different road texture styles, too.

 

[fresquito]

I'm switching between the trilinear and 16x AF images and I'm not seeing much of a difference,

That's exactly the point. AF is not some magical wand. BTW, these are my gameplay settings.

Either way, you really don't think DC's textures can even be considered "good"? They even implemented a mineral material that reflects and sparkles with the sunlight as it would in real life.

I'd rather judge textures in their context, not from some cropped image.

Yup, and they have all kinds of different road texture styles, too.

That's a given at this point in time, specially talking about high budgeted games.

 

[shandy706]

Drove around just messing around last night. Took some random shots of other foliage in the game

It slowly changes in some areas as you move across the map.

I'm not sure what kind of tree this is...type of palm? I guess.

The pine trees look alright, not great, but ok. They have a lot of tiny foliage which looks eh at a distance. The tree close up on the right looks really good, especially when lit up.

Here's a buffet of plants..lol

More random plants.

I moved the camera around to make sure I wasn't photographing any rotating plants, .



Edit**

Someone wanted some more gameplay Panoramic Gifs..

 

[Gestault]

Drove around just messing around last night. Took some random shots of other foliage in the game

It slowly changes in some areas as you move across the map.

I'm not sure what kind of tree this is...type of palm? I guess.

The pine trees look alright, not great, but ok. They have a lot of tiny foliage which looks eh at a distance. The tree close up on the right looks really good, especially when lit up.

Here's a buffet of plants..lol

More random plants.

I moved the camera around to make sure I wasn't photographing any rotating plants, .



Edit**

Someone wanted some more gameplay Panoramic Gifs..

Hot damn.

 

[Noobcraft]

Does anyone else think that the driver in FH2 looks a little bit like Nathan Drake? Or a close relative?
http://xboxclips.com/video.php?uid=...raft&vid=1402538d-a1ea-4f2f-9544-3cd8ab620479

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Inferior Palm trunk going on here in Drive Club or just an inferior species?

 

[Noobcraft]

Inferior Palm trunk going on here in Drive Club or just an inferior species?

The palm trees (and most trees in Driveclub) seem to have pretty low res textures on the trunks. I noticed the palm trees in particular while I played that level.

 

[Gestault]

Inferior Palm trunk going on here in Drive Club or just an inferior species?

I love this hobby so much, lol

 

[Durante]

Let me disagree.

Trilinear

AF x16

There has to be something wrong here, that's not a comparison between trilinear (no AF) and 16x AF.

 

[benzy]

That's exactly the point. AF is not some magical wand. BTW, these are my gameplay settings.

But it is? Something is wrong with your settings.

I'd rather judge textures in their context, not from some cropped image.

...I just don't... okay...

Inferior Palm trunk going on here in Drive Club or just an inferior species?

Yeah, the palms trees are superior in FH2. They're actually rather ugly in DC for some reason, even up close, lol.

 

[fresquito]

There has to be something wrong here, that's not a comparison between trilinear (no AF) and 16x AF.

To be honest, I was expecting a bigger difference when I took the pics. You can see some more definition in the textures in the distant elements, but that's it. The perspective doesn't help either. I will ask in the forum.

 

[Durante]

To be honest, I was expecting a bigger difference when I took the pics. You can see some more definition in the textures in the distant elements, but that's it. The perspective doesn't help either. I will ask in the forum.

Probably you are not actually forcing AF off for the "trilinear" shot.

 

[fresquito]

Probably you are not actually forcing AF off for the "trilinear" shot.

If you mean in the Control Panel, I should check that, but the ingame option sure was checked. Maybe the option is not working as intended in the GUI at the moment. I just reported it in the forum. I'm sorry any misundertanding my post has created. Will post pictures once I have an answer.