More discussion and less personal attacks. Here have a happy picture;
A more fun racing game than both DC and FH2
I ain't even mad.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
A more fun racing game than both DC and FH2
I ain't even mad.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Really impressed how well Horizon 2's visuals turned out, everything has a chunkier look to it than Forza 5 to my eyes but I soon adjusted and yeah it's pretty damn good.
thanks!
will read later, I am little curious if they talk about some things I think I may have noticed.
well, you know what they say about 30fps racers... they can be great, as long as you dont switch between sessions to f5
since you got your wheel back and all, hit me up for some online free roam tandem when you feel like it
nelsonroyale
Member
Nothing I took a picture of is a 2D "object". I stated I made sure everything pictured was a 3D plant with limbs/leaves/branches in multiple directions
Both games generally have a "distinct lack of 2D objects" within a certain LOD.
Yeah, that was poor articulation on my part. The trees are clearly 3d but the branches and leaves look pretty flat. I think the geometry looks quite a bit more convincing to me in the DC shots. The FH2 trees look bedraggled for want of a better word. Again, no doubt it is less noticeable in motion.
An update. It seems Trilinear is broken and it uses 16x AF instead. Didn't know, as I always use 16x AF and my first time going trilinear was to do this failure of a comparision xD
Again, sorry about any misunderstanding.
I'm not sure why but in the FH2 gifs going full speed it looks like a game. The feeling of speed and fear of crashing look like meh.
When I play DC and I'm going full speed down a narrow street, it's like SHIT MAN HOLY SHIT. Adrenaline starts pumping and I actually fear crashing. The sense of speed and physics is unreal in that game.
When I play DC and I'm going full speed down a narrow street, it's like SHIT MAN HOLY SHIT. Adrenaline starts pumping and I actually fear crashing. The sense of speed and physics is unreal in that game.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
well, you know what they say about 30fps racers... they can be great, as long as you dont switch between sessions to f5
since you got your wheel back and all, hit me up for some online free roam tandem when you feel like it
Yeah will do mate, I seriously feel like an idiot when it comes to games menus, features and stuff since slowing down on the gaming..I might need some coaching how to find that shit!
Tried F5 just before Horizon 2, I can imagine going the other way would melt my eyes in creamy smoothness but as far as cockpit immersion, force feedback and general driving excitement Horizon 2 smashes F5.
Gonna be one sad mofo if the good stuff doesn't make it back into FM.
There's nothing wrong about the sense of speed in Horizon and the fear of crashing is real, there's shit everywhere to avoid and the driving itself is not easy. I'm on edge constantly.
Trust me, the fear of crashing in FH2, with rewind off, is far greater than you could ever imagine. Especially at 150mph with no wall to bounce off of.
That's not a comment to degrade the sense of speed in DC...it's excellent. I'm just saying I've experience a much greater fear than any closed circuit racer I've ever played. Of course, one can toggle on rewind if they're a pansy.
Sometimes I'm a pansy
drugstore_cowboy
Member
I guess the sense of speed is lost somewhat in Horizon's chase cam being sat high, far back and a wide fov.
Hopefully we'll see something like this on the current generation:
Maybe PD could pull something close to that, they still have the best smoke imo
and just for comparison here's Driveclub's smoke
I'm pretty impressed with how smoke in Pcars is turning out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJjMi-_ZHME&feature=youtu.be
NullPointer
Member
Both FH2 and DC can be very forgiving when rubbing against the walls - with collisions not slowing your speed down very dramatically. But DC is touchier by far, and at speed its very easy for the super and hyper cars to go very wrong very quickly, and even some slight collisions will send you spinning and careening and flipping about - which is fucking horrifying and abrupt from cockpit view.
That's one of the reasons I compare DC to Shift - the sense of speed, even when driving in a straight line, it just feels a lot more dangerous and unforgiving.
Forza is refined and smooth (until you go off-road, and then all bets are off and hold on to your butts), while DC is bumpy and growls.
It's not a racing game, but I love the way Watch Dogs smoke looks at times. It billows out in a really cool way as you get on it.
dude above commented earlier how it is to extract conclusions from gifs.
dont conclude from gifs.
here is a small video of a 120hp car, going in speeds 120-160km/h
http://xboxclips.com/video.php?uid=2533274792368218&gamertag=P3tran&vid=8962e349-109d-4a1b-a850-8e2416df55c6
sure! anytime you want, shoot me a message or a chat or whatever.
even better, from withing horizon, you just press start button to go to menu, then on the first page there where it says "Home", there is down-center the white box saying "game party". you press that and it brings the "invite friend" options.
edit: OR, that same white box will say "JOIN X" (instead of "game party"), when X is anybody from your friendlist that is currently in an online session. and you can join that too. if there are more than one, you let it alone to scroll to display who else is online and joinable.
D'ultimate
Member
http://xboxclips.com/video.php?uid=...ate2&vid=23cf0b7c-27e2-4a40-be5c-4d80ff213f97
Here's my contribution to the sense of speed and danger in FH2. Road is mostly clear and then it's not.
Here's my contribution to the sense of speed and danger in FH2. Road is mostly clear and then it's not.
That's because it's fucking ghost cars.
Every single car just faded in from nowhere, I wish other cars had a higher priority and was rendered sooner than that.
SunhiLegend
Member
Couple of Project Cars gifs.
Thanks for sharing that videoclip.
I'd play the shit out of Forza Horizon 2. That looked so cool.
I feel much more of a sense of fear at high speeds in Horizon 2 than in DC. Driveclub does a good job of making it appear that you're moving fast, but the road is always clear, corners alert you of their severity far in advance, the cars have insane grip and braking ability, and so on. I never feel like I have anything real to worry about at higher speeds, other than accidentally cutting a corner deeper than the system allows, and being penalised for it.
In Horizon 2 I often begin to panic, and voluntarily slow myself down due to all the various things I'm trying to process at those speeds. There's often traffic, there's branching paths (nothing worse than missing your turn in a race), my car can take mechanical damage, and entering a turn at too high a speed is a lot more difficult to compensate for in most cars.
I don't think comparing watching a gif to playing a game itself makes much sense. Only one of those scenarios actually has any personal sense of consequence. It's a bit like comparing gifs of F-Zero GX and Wipeout 2097. F-Zero GX will always appear faster in a gif, however it's much easier to comfortably manage higher speeds when playing when compared to Wipeout, so travelling at high speeds in Wipeout induces much more fear of collision in general (exclusing those moments in F-Zero where you've burnt through all of your ships energy boosting, and so a single collision will kill you).
In Horizon 2 I often begin to panic, and voluntarily slow myself down due to all the various things I'm trying to process at those speeds. There's often traffic, there's branching paths (nothing worse than missing your turn in a race), my car can take mechanical damage, and entering a turn at too high a speed is a lot more difficult to compensate for in most cars.
I don't think comparing watching a gif to playing a game itself makes much sense. Only one of those scenarios actually has any personal sense of consequence. It's a bit like comparing gifs of F-Zero GX and Wipeout 2097. F-Zero GX will always appear faster in a gif, however it's much easier to comfortably manage higher speeds when playing when compared to Wipeout, so travelling at high speeds in Wipeout induces much more fear of collision in general (exclusing those moments in F-Zero where you've burnt through all of your ships energy boosting, and so a single collision will kill you).
Caayn
Member
Happened way too many times that I entered a corner with more speed than I had hoped. Result: ending in a random vineyard a few dozen yards away from the track or crashing full frontal against a tree, good luck getting back in the top 3 at that point.
Now I take my corners with a lot more care.
Dictator93
Member
Couple of Project Cars gifs.
Could you please link me the videos from whence these gifs come?
no problem. I'm not one of those talented with making videos though
and no capture card, just the 2-3mbit video xbone saves by default.
here's another clip in my saved clips:
http://xboxclips.com/video.php?uid=2533274792368218&gamertag=P3tran&vid=cfc6eda5-8fa7-4c63-a827-460956105d5f
this one is from a full grid online race, in urban setting (pgr style).
car I think its my bigturbo awd vw gti
hope you enjoy
more importantly, notice what team [GAF] does to other teams when racing online 8)
(the shield/shield with star icons mean team captains and team co-coptains)
DirgeExtinction
Member
Forward+ is like Deferred and Forward combined, no? Or am I way off? If it is, I wonder why Evo decided to use both independently instead of Forward+,
SunhiLegend
Member
http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_project_cars_azure_coast_rain_gameplay-txGksKF06kwgQGzk_fr.html
2nd gif is from my own capture, don't have the video for it.
The system I use is quite a few years old (AMD 955, HD6870, 4GM RAM), I'm running the game at 720p with mainly high settings and it looks amazing. Next-gen versions running at 1080p/60ps should be a treat.
Really hilarious that you complain about DC's sun glare and visibility, that you can't see anything then go on to say it's not realistic at all, yet you defended Forza 5's use of the sun glare pointing out back then that it IS realistic, which was actually way more obtrusive than it is in DC, not to mention you can't even adjust the time of day in that game. I didn't think you were that big of a fanboy, but goddamn, this is an all new low.
I tried to ignore that poor attempt of yours of trying to explain how the human eye works, but you even contradicted yourself there since back then you said the glare effect is worse to the human eye than it is for the camera. So which one is it? lol
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=81378681&postcount=535p3tran said:in real life if you have the sun in front of you while your eyes try to focus on the turns of a 5m wide road ahead while going in excess of 150, the effect in your eyes is worse than lens effect. its pure and all white, and instantaneous loss of bearings if driver not ready to handle it.
did you think that Ari Vatanen for example, in the famous pikes peak video drives with only one hand in 4th gear, holding the other as a shade, because of ...lens flare? or something that is WAY more dramatic for the eye?
real effect is way more pronounced than either tv cameras or games are able to display it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=81277593&postcount=526p3tran said:
Oh really, the exact same people who complained about F5's glare are praising DC's sun glare? Where are they? Where are these posts you're speaking of?
And the conditions in F5 is actually worse. You've played both games, I don't know why you insist on making up bullshit unless you have some ulterior motives. The whole screen is overexposed, you can't even see the road, not to mention the unrealistic use of god rays casting through the windscreen. You can still see the road in DC and while visibility is affected, it's not ridiculously overdone. There were only a few select tour races where the sun was set up to be directly in front of you on certain straights anyway. And yes, the glare in DC is ONLY in direct sunlight with the sun in front of your face. If the sun is positioned higher up, or if the conditions are overcast, you won't see it. I don't understand, you just keep making things up.
F5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5_IWfYyEGE
DC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oWnA5rVnAA
It's also important to note the comments on how the contrast adjustment is what a camera does and not a human eye. Given that there's lens flare in all camera views, it's kind of obvious that it's meant to be from a camera's point of view and not a human one.
Yeah, just another case of p3tran being p3tran.
The contrast adjustments don't even cause any visibility problems in DC, so I'm not sure what he's talking about. The only blind turns in DC are the ones caused by road elevation changes or if you're staring at the sun at dawn. You can clearly see the road in all lighting conditions, whether there's sun or no sun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF9W6rQ0c8g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_84sUrQK0AA
Couple of Project Cars gifs.
I am dedicating this weekend to making pCARS and AC gifs.
ok guys, because you keep twisting what I say, last incident being what i said about visibility under NOT direct sunlight, please tell me, is it possible to upload some screenshots to usb, WITHOUT making a link to twitter/facebook?
they say a picture usually is worth 1000 words, only in your case it might be worth a million words...
if there is no way to copy to usb without linking to facebook/twitter, then I guess I will take some off-screen pics.
they say a picture usually is worth 1000 words, only in your case it might be worth a million words...
if there is no way to copy to usb without linking to facebook/twitter, then I guess I will take some off-screen pics.
now, as anybody who has the game knows, the pics I chose are not the worst offenders in poor visibility. the worst offenders in visibility (not even talking about direct sunlight or night) is not when the atmosphere like in my pics below, but instead worse is when clouds get that bright golden color, or even the reddish.
also, in high speed cars you get the full blur along with that effect where the screen is trembling up-down -which makes visibility even worse- and is not displayed here, nor can it be displayed at static.
and keep in mind that I chose places where everything is as clear as can be roadside, to exactly show my point.
you know that in other places where it is more busy with roadside objects, along with that shaking, visibility gets even worse. there have been points where the only way I could make a turn at a decent speed (so ai dont crush behind me), was to replay and learn that turn by heart. thats why I asked last week if there was a way to change tod for the career events. then I was told that a good solution is to leave the game running and go make a sandwich (which actually proved to be a great fix)
http://abload.de/img/2niizn.jpg
http://abload.de/img/38wf89.jpg
also, to continue the other discussion about dc looking so realistic, here are a couple of pics where screen is not too much desaturated (because normal light conditions).
again, I did not pick the worst offenders.
http://abload.de/img/driveclub_20141013144idcmp.jpg
also, in high speed cars you get the full blur along with that effect where the screen is trembling up-down -which makes visibility even worse- and is not displayed here, nor can it be displayed at static.
and keep in mind that I chose places where everything is as clear as can be roadside, to exactly show my point.
you know that in other places where it is more busy with roadside objects, along with that shaking, visibility gets even worse. there have been points where the only way I could make a turn at a decent speed (so ai dont crush behind me), was to replay and learn that turn by heart. thats why I asked last week if there was a way to change tod for the career events. then I was told that a good solution is to leave the game running and go make a sandwich (which actually proved to be a great fix)
http://abload.de/img/2niizn.jpg
http://abload.de/img/38wf89.jpg
also, to continue the other discussion about dc looking so realistic, here are a couple of pics where screen is not too much desaturated (because normal light conditions).
again, I did not pick the worst offenders.
http://abload.de/img/driveclub_20141013144idcmp.jpg
I dont know if its bad, but for sure it aint fooling me to pass it for reality.
now, I still owe myself to read that df article at some point....
Also, I had a quick look in some reviews to see if anybody ever mentioned visibility problem,
and the only one I found is ...blimblim, where he does not even do the review, only offers the second opinion. here goes:
<<....What it means is basically that, for one run, you might have the sun in your face while the next will be entirely shrouded in cloud cover. Still, as this makes such a difference in terms of track visibility, it seems like an odd choice since it is impossible to experience the same conditions in any two races. For a game based heavily on the social link between players and the inherent competition one would expect that everyone would enjoy the same conditions for a specific event. Dont think for a second that I dislike the game, however,....>>
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_review_driveclub-15933_en.html
So I add to this quote that the same thing holds for the career events. I could push myself do a lap record the game asks for three stars, and not make it no matter how much I try, OR, I could go make a sandwich, let the "cloud system" pass to somewhat more favorable for visibility conditions,
and BAM! 3-4 seconds lower, no frustration, no repeat, no need to learn when a stupid turn approaches by heart..
and as I already wrote way before, to me this thing first is a gameplay thing, then a graphics thing. should have been caught at qa is my opinion.
anyway
blimblim, kudos from me, because what you wrote, I understand you are a player, not a ...viewer.
now, I still owe myself to read that df article at some point....
Also, I had a quick look in some reviews to see if anybody ever mentioned visibility problem,
and the only one I found is ...blimblim, where he does not even do the review, only offers the second opinion. here goes:
<<....What it means is basically that, for one run, you might have the sun in your face while the next will be entirely shrouded in cloud cover. Still, as this makes such a difference in terms of track visibility, it seems like an odd choice since it is impossible to experience the same conditions in any two races. For a game based heavily on the social link between players and the inherent competition one would expect that everyone would enjoy the same conditions for a specific event. Dont think for a second that I dislike the game, however,....>>
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_review_driveclub-15933_en.html
So I add to this quote that the same thing holds for the career events. I could push myself do a lap record the game asks for three stars, and not make it no matter how much I try, OR, I could go make a sandwich, let the "cloud system" pass to somewhat more favorable for visibility conditions,
and BAM! 3-4 seconds lower, no frustration, no repeat, no need to learn when a stupid turn approaches by heart..
and as I already wrote way before, to me this thing first is a gameplay thing, then a graphics thing. should have been caught at qa is my opinion.
anyway
blimblim, kudos from me, because what you wrote, I understand you are a player, not a ...viewer.
Or you could use the 'bad cloud' situ to practice the track waiting for the right cloud conditions and BAM! 5-6 seconds lower?
I dunno, seems fine to me and a majority of gamers seems the 2 of you are a pretty small percentage.
Sure bro, you're taking out that one race in DC where you're literally racing underneath a storm cloud, and where it's almost dark as night when you're not facing more brighter skies, and make it an example of how bad visibility is in the game, because that's not the worst offender?
Worst offenders being when you race at dusk or at dawn?
Yes, like in real life, I'd say.
So, what's your point again?
Do you also have to make sandwiches for your opponents in game, so that they wait for you when the event is not a time trial?
been there, done that.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=133916801&postcount=16815
after a while it just comes down to it being tiring, frustrating, and overall a waste of time regarding what your goal is.
doesnt work like that.
in that case, the only thing you can do is replay and replay and replay the same thing, until the "system" provides better.
good thing - for me- is that I find the ai competition easy, and really prove to be a problem for me on cases of getting supplemental stars for clean laps etc.
talking about ai though.... dat rubber banding that devs said there wasnt there.... LOL
GoldenCrow
Member
I see you are not a fan of the randomness. If you want to avoid the random low visibility situations just set the time and weather to one that doesn't give you any problems, problem solved. You might not be able to set it on the tour settings but everyone is playing that the same way. Also if you send a challenge everything is captured exactly as you experienced it so people should be on the same footing.
I personally haven't had any problems with the visibility but I really like when low visibility hits, reflection flares or low level sunlight comes into play as it makes every track always feel fresh.
Jamesways
Member
Eh, I like that it's random, always changing. I see your point about challenges, but that's the deal with a GI game with a simulated weather system.
I don't agree with it being "being tiring, frustrating, and overall a waste of time".
I think it's pretty cool they made a game that has a always changing weather system. I prefer a system like this over one with only constant, static, never changing, perfect racing conditions. At least give players the choice. Sometimes you just want to race in the rain.
Like the post above, sure keeps the tracks fresh. I enjoy the random weather in games like MotoGP and F1. It really adds to the experience, just like real life, you never know how the race day weather conditions may factor into a race.
And when people go for track record times they have do deal with the randomness, no day is ever the same as far as lighting, wind, temp, etc.
But yes, this is a game based on comparing times and people want to be on equal ground.
And as the above post points out, in TT challenges, you can set time and clouds so others can have your same settings.
I imagine they'll be complaints from some when rain and snow is in.
I don't agree with it being "being tiring, frustrating, and overall a waste of time".
I think it's pretty cool they made a game that has a always changing weather system. I prefer a system like this over one with only constant, static, never changing, perfect racing conditions. At least give players the choice. Sometimes you just want to race in the rain.
Like the post above, sure keeps the tracks fresh. I enjoy the random weather in games like MotoGP and F1. It really adds to the experience, just like real life, you never know how the race day weather conditions may factor into a race.
And when people go for track record times they have do deal with the randomness, no day is ever the same as far as lighting, wind, temp, etc.
But yes, this is a game based on comparing times and people want to be on equal ground.
And as the above post points out, in TT challenges, you can set time and clouds so others can have your same settings.
I imagine they'll be complaints from some when rain and snow is in.
MilkyJoe
Member
anyway
blimblim, kudos from me, because what you wrote, I understand you are a player, not a ...viewer.
Haha, at least one person agrees with me
I have a video that shows it a bit: http://www.gamersyde.com/hqstream_driveclub_cloudcover_insanity-33212_en.html
JackAubrey
Member
I'm with P3tran on this. There are times when under a cloud or in the shadow of a hill where the road goes so dark the visibility of the next corner and road ahead disappears. The camera does not react to lighting changes as the human eye does - unlike many games - and at times I find Driveclub frustratingly dark. It's even worse if you use the close dash view (the one without the wheel visible) as that view has the windscreen take some of the saturation out of the image, The irony is it's easier to see at night when the lights are on and the road is lit by fires, flares etc.
I know some of you don't see this. I know some even are so childish as to mock P3tran for this. But it's a phenomenon some of us see and does affect the enjoyment of the game. I got so fed up of it this morning - I messed up several races because the road just disappeared into the murk - that I doubt I'll play the game unless there's a solution.
And no my TV isn't set up wrong. It is very well calibrated with a separate calibration for both next-gen consoles.
I know some of you don't see this. I know some even are so childish as to mock P3tran for this. But it's a phenomenon some of us see and does affect the enjoyment of the game. I got so fed up of it this morning - I messed up several races because the road just disappeared into the murk - that I doubt I'll play the game unless there's a solution.
And no my TV isn't set up wrong. It is very well calibrated with a separate calibration for both next-gen consoles.
NullPointer
Member
Same here. It adds to the challenge of the event.
But I also do take the time to learn the tracks, in any racing game I play, but especially so in games with changing conditions. The markers you rely upon in clear weather during the day are no longer there when the rain hits or its the dead of night, or when you're facing both. So when I'm hit with one of those low lighting conditions I at least have a decent idea of how I can push things beyond what I can immediately see, but its a bigger risk.
That doesn't hurt the gameplay, it changes it up.
Hopefully a difference in opinion doesn't categorize me as a viewer and not a player, whatever the hell that means.
now, as anybody who has the game knows, the pics I chose are not the worst offenders in poor visibility. the worst offenders in visibility (not even talking about direct sunlight or night) is not when the atmosphere like in my pics below, but instead worse is when clouds get that bright golden color, or even the reddish.
also, in high speed cars you get the full blur along with that effect where the screen is trembling up-down -which makes visibility even worse- and is not displayed here, nor can it be displayed at static.
and keep in mind that I chose places where everything is as clear as can be roadside, to exactly show my point.
you know that in other places where it is more busy with roadside objects, along with that shaking, visibility gets even worse. there have been points where the only way I could make a turn at a decent speed (so ai dont crush behind me), was to replay and learn that turn by heart. thats why I asked last week if there was a way to change tod for the career events. then I was told that a good solution is to leave the game running and go make a sandwich (which actually proved to be a great fix)
http://abload.de/img/2niizn.jpg
http://abload.de/img/38wf89.jpg
also, to continue the other discussion about dc looking so realistic, here are a couple of pics where screen is not too much desaturated (because normal light conditions).
again, I did not pick the worst offenders.
http://abload.de/img/driveclub_20141013144idcmp.jpg
High speeds on real twisty roads with lots of sudden elevation changes have that same difficulty curve, even in normal sun conditions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXn3WjCIaaM
Turns after a hill peak are blind, turns where the pavement is completely flat are difficult to anticipate. It's the same difficulty seen on Isle of Man. You just have to know and learn the road, it's not something you drive fast in and race just by relying on eyesight.
The last one you showed is just a typical hill drop at the end, so of course you won't see the rest of the road.
A lot of the track design in DC are similar to Isle of man and mountainous roads with sudden turns right at the changes in elevation. You can't see the turns so you don't rely on the road but the surroundings.
Throw in severely stormy skies that darken the environment or road pavement that actually blend in with the rest of the environment in addition to those twisties, and it's not all that unrealistic, especially from a camera's perspective.
Nah, it's cool. You can post them anywhere you want, you don't have to credit me.
My issue (just like p3tran I guess) isn't that there is a visibility problem, I'm perfectly fine with that and it's actually awesome that it works as well as it does. My issue is that by just restarting the race, I get very different visibility conditions depending on how the clouds have moved. When doing time trials, I expect the exact same conditions from one attempt to the next one. I know some people will say that it's that way in real life rally events (or ski or whatever), but I disagree with that. I understand that random stuff can happen in real life, but in a video game this pesky things shouldn't be an issue.
I hear you on that. I know it was mentioned in the past about how clouds will never be the same twice, unless you were challenged by someone in which case they were identical (or something along those lines) but you'd think they'd carry across for things like time trials and such. At least, if you were using identical time/weather settings.
Maybe just set the weather to clear each time? You don't get the cloud cover with graphical effects, but at least it'd be consistent (until they hopefully fix it).
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