Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
My question is that why was an Aerospace company working on Saturn 2?!
My question is that why was an Aerospace company working on Saturn 2?!
I would have been thrilled for arcade-perfect conversions.Model 2 was outdated by 1996, so Real3D/100 could've been much better.
Model 2: 300,000 textured polys/s
vs
R3D/100: 750,000 textured, fully featured polys/s
R3D/100 would've eaten Model 2 for lunch
Nope, I just post on forums, I'm not into blogging, but I'd love to have a website someday.
My question is that why was an Aerospace company working on Saturn 2?!
I always thought Next Generation was just a U.S. reprint of Edge?
Either way, I loved that magazine. One of the few gaming mags I actually subscribed to.
First, let me start off by saying I am going to be buying a Voodoo card.
For low end comsumer grade flight sims and such, the Voodoo looks like
about the best thing available. Second, I am not necessarily responding
to just you, because there seems to be a hell of a lot of confusion
about Lockheed Martin's graphics accelerators. I have been seeing posts
all over the place confusing the R3D/100 with the AGP/INTEL project that
L.M. is working on. The R3D/100 is *NOT* the chipset that is being
developed for the AGP/INTEL partnership.
However, since your inference is that the Voodoo is faster than the
R3D/100, I have to say that you are totally dead wrong. While the specs
say that the Voodoo is *capable* of rendering a higher number of pixels
per second, or the same number of polygons per second as the R3D/100,
the specs fail to mention that these are not real world performance
figures any you probably will not ever see the kind of performance that
3Dfx claims to be able to acheive. This does *not* mean that the Voodoo
is not a good (its great actually) card, just that the game based 3D
accelerator companies (all of them) don't tell you the whole story.
The Voodoo uses a polygon raster processor. This accelerates line and
polygon drawing, rendering, and texture mapping, but does not accelerate
geometry processing (ie vertex transormation like rotate and scale).
Geometry processing on the Voodoo as well as every other consumer (read
game) grade 3D accelerator. Because the cpu must handle the geometry
transforms and such, you will never see anything near what 3Dfx,
Rendition, or any of the other manufacturers claim until cpu's get
significantly faster (by at least an order of magnitude). The 3D
accelerator actually has to wait for the cpu to finish processing before
it can do its thing.
I have yet to see any of the manufacturers post what cpu was plugged
into their accelerator, and what percentage of cpu bandwidth was being
used to produce the numbers that they claim. You can bet that if it was
done on a Pentium 200, that the only task the cpu was handling was
rendering the 3D model that they were benchmarking. For a game,
rendering is only part of the cpu load. The cpu has to handle flight
modelling, enemy AI, environmental variables, weapons modelling, damage
modelling, sound, etc, etc.
The R3D includes both the raster accelerator (see above) and a 100 MFLOP
geometry processing engine. Read that last line again. All geometry
processing data is offloaded from the system cpu and onto the R3D
floating point processor, allowing the cpu to handle more important
tasks. The Voodoo does not have this, and if it were to add a geometry
processor, you would have to more than double the price of the card.
The R3D also allows for up to 8M of texture memory (handled by a
seperate texture processor) which allows not only 24 bit texturemaps
(RGB), but also 32bit maps (RGBA) the additional 8 bits being used for
256 level transparency (Alpha). An addtional 10M can be used for frame
buffer memory, and 5M more for depth buffering.
There are pages and pages of specs on the R3D/100 that show that in the
end, it is a better card than the Voodoo and other consumer and
accelerator cards, but I guess the correct question is, for what? If
the models that are in your scene are fairly low detailed (as almost all
games are - even the real cpu pigs like Back to Bagdhad), then the R3D
would be of little added benefit over something like the Voodoo.
However, when you are doing scenes where the polys are 2x+ times more
than your typical 3D game, the R3D really shines. The R3D is and always
was designed for mid to high end professional type application, where
the R3D/1000 (much much faster than the 100) would be too expensive, or
just plain overkill. I've seen the 1000 and I have to say that it rocks!
I had to wipe the drool from my chin after seeing it at Siggraph (We're
talking military grade simulation equipment there boys, both in
performance and price!)
Now then, as I mentioned before, I'm going be buying the Voodoo for my
home system, where I would be mostly playing games. But, I am looking
at the R3D for use in professional 3D application. More comparible 3D
accelerators would not be Voodoo, Rendition based genre, but more along
the lines of high end GLINT based boards containing Delta geometry
accelerator chips (and I don't mean the low end game base Glint chips,
or even the Permedia for that matter), or possibly the next line from
Symmetric (Glyder series), or Intergraph's new professional accelerator
series.
Ted K.
Shadowbox Graphics
Chicago - where being dead isn't a voting restriction.
It's fun to see Model 3 being hyped as some super tech and now I have one gathering dust that I don't know what to do with.
Nope, I just post on forums, I'm not into blogging, but I'd love to have a website someday.
It's the big thing to the left. Not much to see, really. I've removed it from the cabinet since.
http://www.beardednerd.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/kabb_elektronik.jpg
Great thread, Herzog. I miss that era of gaming, hardware speculation, and journalism.
I loved Next-generation magazine....read and re-read any issue with ANYTHING having to do with Model 3. The issue with Scud-race on the cover *DROOL*. This would have been amazing. What a crying shame that Sega threw it all away.
Real3D and 3dfx
With the collapse of the NVIDIA deal, Sega started looking for another partner and eventually hooked up with Real3D, then a subsidiary of Lockheed Martin. This seemed like a good match as Sega had worked with Real3D on the development of the Model 2 arcade machine, and would later work together again on the Model 3. The console chip would likely have been at the same performance level or just slightly below Real3D's PC chip, the Intel i740.
The console was codenamed "Black Belt". Sega reasoned that casual gamers could get a "white belt" gaming system such as a PC, but real gamers would want something better, a "black belt" system.
Although there were discussions between Real3D and Sega, Real3D never made any silicon for the Black Belt. 3dfx had beaten Real3D by offering better performance and a more robust feature set. Officially, Real3D stated that the business model for the console market did not create a win-win situation with Sega as it did in the high-end arcade market.
Sega awarded 3dfx with the chip contract. The console's Black Belt name remained even after the graphics chip was to be replaced by a variant of the 3dfx Voodoo2.
The reason Model 3 appeared powerful was because the hardware was huge, using TWO PRO-1000 chips, costing arcade vendors tens of thousands of dollars to purchase on some of the titles. It is also not fair to expect ports of Model 3 games ported over to Dreamcast to be picture perfect, as the 3D hardware was entirely different, and the games had to be reworked from the ground up due to how PowerVR2 renders graphics versus TWO PRO-1000 chips.
Also to note, games running on Model 3 were displayed at a res of 496x384. Running at that low a resolution, games are obviously going to run at a fast framerate on that hardware configuration. Dreamcast/Naomi displayed games at a higher resolution, and PowerVR2 supported more graphics features then PRO-1000 did, and was stackable for multi gpu ability at a far more affordable price. Anything made specifically for the PowerVR2 chipset handled quite well, and most of the A+ titles on Dreamcast and Naomi 1&2/Atomiswave look quite a better then anything produce on the thousands of dollars more expensive Model 3 hardware. Power VR2 was a more powerful feature rich GPU in general, and it was consumer grade (Dreamcast and Neon 250 pc graphics card), and smoked everything LM/REAL3D had produced for Sega or PC on the consumer side. This is why Sega went with PowerVR2 and stuck with it for so long until moving to Triforce, Chihiro, Lindbergh etc.
You are totally forgetting the fact that the horribly weak, totally inferior i740 (designed during the same time as PowerVR2 was) was the best Real3D could muster for a custom consumer related GPU. They were totally incompetent when it came to affordable consumer grade GPU technology, and they were amazingly far behind 3DFX, Nvidia, ATI, VideoLogic, etc due to that. LM/REAL3D was not in the right mindset to produce consumer grade technology, for game systems or otherwise, and Sega, along with Intel and everyone else knew this. All they knew how to design and manufacture well was massive workhorse technology used for expensive simulators and other applications the typical consumer would never use, where the price was not the question of the day, where no expense was spared.
As is, it is even hard to say whether their later work was even their own. They were involved in patent lawsuits as it was by the time they got snuffed, and they were starting to have to compete with companies like Quantum3D in the simulation market, and Quantum3D was curb stomping them with consumer grade 3DFX chipsets in the AAlchemy systems, etc. To be perfectly blunt, spending time speculating on what could have been/fantasy projects concerning Real3D is time unwisely wasted. What they did bring to the table that had real merit, that was the best they had to offer, in the end that was totally out of reach for the normal guys wallet, let alone 5 normal guys combining their wallets. And as a 3D company in general, they were not even 2nd or 3rd in their class by the time of their demise. As far as I am concerned, good riddance.
Nuff said
The Mega CD / Sega CD should've been the ONLY upgrade for the Genesis, the 32X should've never existed. Sega could've moved on from the Genesis Sega CD to a much more powerful Saturn. It would've outclassed 3DFX on PC and the 3DO M2.
Hardware had little to do with it. Not sure which, but either it's GPU or CPU was stronger than the PS2's. No, it was the DVD that saved Sony. The PS2 was the cheapest DVD player you could buy, they held 4 GBs of memory, which really helped 3rd parties. And playstations name had grew beyond Sega's.
good thread (im in the dark about a lot of this), but - if the genesis wasn't killed off early, how do you think it'dve fared without Sega-CD or 32x? i loved some of the former's scene (Lunar 1/2, Sonic CD, Snatcher, few others) but while SNES would've kicked the crap out of it stateside, it was finding life in plenty of other regions. Saturn dropped in mid-95 over here, yeah? so the genny would've been like six years old and clearly long in the tooth, but do you think the customer confidence would've been that much bigger at that point, or would their e3 "debut surprise" and high-ass price point still have buried them?
Remember when game magazines didn't consist of bullshit distilled for a 2 year old?
For what it's worth, neither the CPU nor GPU on the Dreamcast were more powerful than what the PS2 had.
Dreamcast is one of my most favorite consoles of all time. It did so many things right. The VMU was an interesting Experiment that could have been great. The game line up was something special. It's so sad it had such a short life.
TIL. Did not know that. I was reading this month's Edge and was saying to my brother that Edge looks exactly like Next Generation.Yes, it was. They were sister magazines.
Yeah, Sega actually wanted a DVD drive in the system, but after Saturn drained their finances, they just couldn't afford the per-console loss. It sucks, Sega knew what moves were needed to make the Dreamcast succeed...but just didn't have the money to do them. It would have been heart-breaking to work there in that era.Had the dreamcast just had a DVD drive i think things may have been drastically different... but how much would that have increased the cost per-console.
I was reading this month's Edge and was saying to my brother that Edge looks exactly like Next Generation.
Dreamcast's PowerVR2 + SuperH architecture far outperformed PS2's for a given cost. NAOMI 2 is a more comparable example of the Dreamcast's architecture in terms of release date and processor cost compared to PS2 (and it still didn't use anywhere near PS2's 500+ mm^2 @250 nm), and it easily handled more geometry and lighting along with better texturing and image quality than any comparable hardware.
PS2 used a die devouring eDRAM frame buffer to compensate for its IMR shortcomings, not much different in effect than using an expensively wide external bus. Those rendering approaches have never and will never touch the effectiveness of PowerVR TBDR as a rasterization solution.
That old post criticisizing Real3D is way wide of the mark. Model 3 cost many thousands of dollars because it was an arcade cabinet, being sold with a license to allow amusement operators to profit from it, and the processors had no need to be combined onto less chips for the consumer market. While it would've still been very expensive compared to other consumer graphics solutions of 1996 had it been targeted for an add-in solution, its performance just couldn't be compared to anything else of the time. Real 3D had solid algorithms and a solid design approach, but they weren't focused on competing in the consumer space.
was herzogzwei actually camineet?
You're right that Sega messed up badly. They thought that the 16-bit market was on the way out and they needed to go next-gen now, but didn't realize that they were only right in Japan. Sega of America was quite wrong about thinking that -- the 16-bit market actually had a couple of good years left in the US and Europe. Nintendo indeed showed that, with their success with the SNES from 1995-1997.Sega made a BIG mistake killing the Genesis too soon
Nintendo made a killing with the Snes between 1995 and 1997 when nextgen consoles were still kinda expensive for most gamers
Say whatever you want but Kallinske had the right idea with the 32X: it was low-price nextgen taking advantage of the Genesis huge installed base
With the 32X you didnt have to pack a SuperFX chip on every card, and it was much more powerful too
But pretty hardware wont get you anywhere without support, and the 32X was boycotted from the beginning by Sega of Japan which wanted to get the Saturn out there ASAP, and in fact launched it at the same time
Really, how dumb is that? if the problem was that the Saturn was flawed and they needed more time to redesign it it made perfect sense to launch the 32X.
Had it been done properly the 32X would have competed against both Snes and PSX: the first because it was weaker, and the second because it was much more expensive and had fewer games
This is a 32X tech demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOWZbydnlZE
The 32X had potential, but it wasnt taken seriously by the very company selling it
This isn't really true. I mean, it is true that consumer trust in Sega was critically hurt by their own actions, but in late 1995, Sega of Japan did cut off almost all game development for all systems other than the Saturn. Sega of America did continue to develop Genesis games after that, and Sega of Japan had one or two (Virtua Fighter 2, not sure if there were any others), but yes, Sega (of Japan) absolutely did kill off the Genesis, and the 32X, Game Gear, and Sega CD too, in late 1995.Sega didn't kill the genesis , the extra hardware did .
I think that the 32X should never have been released, yeah. Stick with just the Genesis and Sega CD.Sega CD or 32x . They should have picked one of them . The sega CD would have come out earlier and they could have rolled into the saturn when they did , or hold off till the 32x and then release the saturn at later date.
They were broke as it was, how could they possibly have invested any more?The dreamcast was a great system. They should have invested a bit more and gotten a more powerful system. There are a few games that were able to hold on well compared to ps2 games dispite the fact that the dreamcast was 18 months older and cost $100 less at release and developers really only made games for it over a 2 year period. If it got the time and love that the ps2 did there would be some amazing looking games.
was herzogzwei actually camineet?
You're right that Sega messed up badly. They thought that the 16-bit market was on the way out and they needed to go next-gen now, but didn't realize that they were only right in Japan. Sega of America was quite wrong about thinking that -- the 16-bit market actually had a couple of good years left in the US and Europe. Nintendo indeed showed that, with their success with the SNES from 1995-1997.
However, it's not really true that Sega of Japan never supported the 32X at all. The idea for another Genesis addon can be traced to Japan every bit as much as it can the US -- the idea came from there first, as a basic more-colors addon, that Sega of America added to. It ended up as a kind of compromise system, not powerful enough for Sega of America, but too expensive to be an easy sale...
Anyway though, Sega of Japan DID support the 32X with software for 6-9 months. And honestly, in some ways Sega of Japan's 32X lineup is almost better than their Sega CD library... Sega of Japan's Sega CD library, Sonic CD aside, is both thin and somewhatlow on original titles -- a large number of the games they published were either externally developed, or were ports from various other systems. They also did very little with the scaling and rotation powers of the Sega CD -- the few Japanese games they published that did use it like Afterburner III or F1: Beyond the Limit were externally developed in Japan. And this coming from Sega, the scaling-sprites-game arcade masters. Basically, Sega of Japan seems to have mostly released stuff with lots of (often anime) FMV on it on Sega CD, and ports of Japanese computer games, etc... early-90s-disc-system stuff, quite different from the library on the Genesis and 32X. Some games that were supposed to be major Sega of Japan titles for the Sega CD, like Phantasy Star IV and the game that became Outrun 2019, ended up on the Genesis, too.
In comparison, Sega of Japan's 32X library is much more what the Genesis fan would expect. Sure, it can't match the Sega CD in platformers, because while it has more of them (two, Tempo and Knuckles Chaotix), neither one is nearly the game Sonic CD is, but it beats it in rail shooters (Space Harrier, After Burner), racing games (nothing internal from Sega of Japan on Sega CD, versus the great Virtua Racing Deluxe), etc, and it has some good 3d titles too from Sega of Japan, like Star Wars Arcade, the aforementioned Virtua Racing Deluxe, Virtua Fighter, Metal Head, Zaxxon's Motherbase 2000, the Knuckles Chaotix bonus stages... Sega of Japan released a string of games for the 32X over its first six months, and then one more after that, Virtua Fighter in fall '95. And some of them were good games for sure.
However, after that they were done, and the 32X was abandoned shortly afterwards. I just don't think that "more Sega of Japan game support" really was the problem -- they actually did try. You have to consider that in 1994-1995 Sega was trying to support something like six platforms at once, they were overstretched trying to fully support them all. Obviously the Sega CD was the first casualty of that, and then the 32X became the second, but considering how stupid they were with how many systems they were trying to keep going at once, the 32X's 1994-1995 library isn't too bad. The problem was that Sega couldn't keep up supporting so many systems at once, they'd confused the market too much with too much self-competition, and Nintendo had shown that the 16-bit market hadn't actually faded at all, undercutting the whole reason the 32X had been released in the first place, so something had to give... and Sega of Japan decided that that something was everything that wasn't the Saturn. Of course we all know what happened to THAT outside of Japan, but they didn't really care about that, or their long-term prospects... all they cared about was being successful in Japan for once. They got that, for a couple of years, but at the cost of their hardware business... was it really worth it?
I didn't know that, I guess you are right Sega did overstretch itself to a point it couldn't make enough games to keep all platforms going
At the end it would've made more sense to not release the 32X and quietly phase out the SegaCD, and concentrate on the Genesis, GameGear (make an improved model like the GBpocket) and the Saturn
By the way what are your thoughts on the failed Sega-Bandai fusion? how would it affected the console wars?
was herzogzwei actually camineet?
Yeah, one company is simply not going to be able to make enough games to support six systems at one time (five worldwide), as Sega did in 1995. All of them are going to suffer as a result, and indeed that's what happened. It's an issue Sega realized too late.I didn't know that, I guess you are right Sega did overstretch itself to a point it couldn't make enough games to keep all platforms going
Yeah, that's absolutely what they should have done. Make a smaller, lighter, better battery life Game Gear instead of the Nomad, and focus on Genesis and Sega CD games that year. Move those teams working on 32X games mostly to Genesis and Sega CD games. Also, Sega should have released a couple more SVP games. (If you don't know, the SVP is Sega's 3d-hardware chip they could include on Genesis game carts, their answer of sorts to the Super FX. It was only used in one game, the Genesis version of Virtua Racing.) Add SVP versions of Star Wars Arcade and Virtua Fighter. Yeah, they'd be a lot worse than the 32X versions we know, and that'd be too bad (compare Virtua Racing to Virtua Racing Deluxe for the comparison), but it'd have been much better for Sega. Star Wars Arcade was one of their more important games in the US in holiday '94, and even if it wasn't as good a game, an SVP version would be far better in hindsight than a 32X version convincing lots of people to buy a $180 addon Sega was going to abandon barely over six months later.At the end it would've made more sense to not release the 32X and quietly phase out the SegaCD, and concentrate on the Genesis, GameGear (make an improved model like the GBpocket) and the Saturn
camineet/herzogzwei1989 would have more to say about that than me, I think, but he got banned again for whatever reason. Look up some of his old threads, perhaps. I don't know that much about that one myself.By the way what are your thoughts on the failed Sega-Bandai fusion? how would it affected the console wars?
No, you can also bump "older" threads (though this isn't that old, just three months) if you have a good reply to post (you know, not just a couple of words or something). Maybe you could argue that this doesn't meet that standard (I at least disagree, I like getting replies), but that isn't the only time you can bump an older thread, no.Don't bump old threads unless you have new info.
I don't have any idea what he did, but I think the ban's permanent. It's definitely a loss, I like his classic gaming threads as well.Who/what is camineet, and what did he do?
I liked Herzogzwei, hope it's not a perman ban...
5 systems at once..holy shit. Even Nintendo struggles with 2 at a time.
Yeah, that's absolutely what they should have done. Make a smaller, lighter, better battery life Game Gear instead of the Nomad, and focus on Genesis and Sega CD games that year. Move those teams working on 32X games mostly to Genesis and Sega CD games. Also, Sega should have released a couple more SVP games. (If you don't know, the SVP is Sega's 3d-hardware chip they could include on Genesis game carts, their answer of sorts to the Super FX. It was only used in one game, the Genesis version of Virtua Racing.) Add SVP versions of Star Wars Arcade and Virtua Fighter. Yeah, they'd be a lot worse than the 32X versions we know, and that'd be too bad (compare Virtua Racing to Virtua Racing Deluxe for the comparison), but it'd have been much better for Sega. Star Wars Arcade was one of their more important games in the US in holiday '94, and even if it wasn't as good a game, an SVP version would be far better in hindsight than a 32X version convincing lots of people to buy a $180 addon Sega was going to abandon barely over six months later.
As for the Saturn, my real wish would be for them to can the Saturn as-is and instead release a better, easier to program for system a bit later on (late '95 to early '96), because that's what'd have been best for the Western market, where Sega had seen almost all of their success. That is a possible plan, had Sega of Japan been able to accept that they just weren't going to be successful at home (which of course they were not). Failing that though and releasing the Saturn we know, the best thing would have been to ditch the early US launch. That idea was a miserable failure, and led to an immediate, major software drought Sega never really recovered from. Stick with the original September launch. Also, launch at $300, not $400. And start with the Remix version of Virtua Fighter, please, all that bad press the first version brought was not good. With that plan I think Sony would still have won, but Sega would have done better than they did, which would have been a good thing.
I don't have any idea what he did, but I think the ban's permanent. It's definitely a loss, I like his classic gaming threads as well.
Bummer to see herzogzwei's ban is permanent. He was definitely one of the more interesting contributors here.
The Nomad had several problems, really. First, as you say, it got absolutely atrocious battery life, to the point where it's barely "portable". But almost as importantly, second, it released in 1995, exactly that same point that Sega of Japan was significantly scaling back its Genesis support. As a result, it never quite could catch that Genesis wave; it released too late. It released as the system faded, not when it was at its peak. And last, the games it could play were Genesis games, which weren't designed for portable systems. The difference does matter, particularly back then when so many Genesis games had no saving or anything; the same was true on the GG, all too often, but the games weren't as long in general.The Nomad wasnt' a bad idea but the tech wasn't there, it needed a SoC to keep the size and power low, and built-in batteries so you didn't have to buy 6 new AA every day.
Yeah, I think they did at one point have plans for a SVP lockon addon. Of course, the 32X was released instead, but it's much more complex, and much more expensive. I think that doing what they ended up doing with Virtua Racing made the most commercial sense; people were willing to spend money to buy expensive games more so than they were for addons, I think. Still, if they did want to go the addon route, a basic, S&K-style one COULD have worked, if there was no 32X of course. I wouldn't really recommend this path, but if they did it anyway, a "cheap" $80 or something SVP addon, packed in with, say, Virtua Racing, could have worked better. Sell each SVP game as a packin with the SVP addon and alone. Really though, just releasing a few more standalone SVP games, instead of an SVP addon or the 32X, probably would be best. You didn't need all that many games with it anyway, really... and given Sega's problems in 1994-1995 with how many systems they were trying to support at the same time, I don't know that replacing one addon with a different one really would be the best idea. I do think that this SVP addon would be a lot less bad (for Sega's reputation) than the 32X was, though. The price would be lower, and it'd presumably be packed in with a game too. I think they could get away with just releasing just a handful of games for such a thing... but if it was going to be just a handful, just releasing each as its own expensive cartridge, like Nintendo did with the Super FX, probably was the better option. Sega just kept thinking "addons", while Nintendo thought "put more stuff in the carts". Sega lost that fight.About the SVP I heard in other forums that the Lock-On feature of Sonic&Knuckles was originally going to be used for the SVP, so you bought it once and it worked with many games, a better alternative than nintendo making you buy it with every new game. Still I think it was too weak for Model-1 type games, even the 32X struggled with those. Still it would have been a great platform for a Genesis version of Doom, Wolfenstein and other FPS of the time, or a version of DN3D that was more like the original.
These are some good points (apart from time, which I'll get into below), and yeah, the N64 was delayed, but still... had Sega been thinking more globally, they wouldn't have launched the Saturn that they did. Sega of America disliked it from the beginning, for instance. Japan just didn't care. And as I said above, Sega of America would have launched it later; Sega of Japan forced that May '95 date on them, they'd have done September. Or later, if they released something else, the next year, instead.With the Saturn the problem was time, Sony made a 3D console while the Saturn was 2D with 3D on the side, and back then you couldn't just drop some off the shelf parts and be done with it, even small memory chips were very expensive. I think the other problem was that Sega thought Nintendo was going to launch the N64 before than it actually did, so it was afraid of being the last one to the party.
Sega didn't need a console in 1994, though, not really. I mean, Nintendo waited, and they sold more than three times more N64s than Sega did Saturns. That shows that it wasn't absolutely necessary to have a new console at the sametime Sony did.Still, Sega couldn't wait, it was obvious from the start that the PSX wasn't a 3DO or CDi, it wasn't going to just slide off the market, so they panicked because it was clear nintendo wasnt the problem anymore, but Sony.
Expensive, I would think. Arcade machines are pricey -- see the Neo Geo.I wonder, how expensive would a console version of the Model 2 been at the time? sure the arcade was really expensive but that wasn't just the board but all the other parts too, and economies of scale: Sega simply couldn't expect to sell as many cabinets as consoles, not ever.