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[Futurevoid]

Ben could have certainly taken the check down or thrown the ball away, but we would have had 3 and outs or pathetic short drives

It's not Ben's fault that Haley refused to give up the run and constantly put us in 3rd and long situations where the defenses KNOW FOR A FACT that we're going to pass the ball, which is a scenario that our offensive line is going to fail within 99.9% of the time.

These two things are antithetical, no?

One one hand, you're saying that Ben shouldn't take the checkdown or throw the ball away or else you'd end up with short drives or 3 and outs. Therefore he must scramble and go for the deep ball to keep the offense moving.

On the other you're saying Haley is at fault for not completely abandoning the run therefore putting you in long down and distance situations where defenses knew you were going to pass. But then your line can't pass protect at all so...

You realize the backwards nature of both of these comments? My line can't pass block so therefore Haley should give up on the run and my QB should be looking for the deep ball? I'm not being flippant here, I'm genuinely trying to understand the logic.

I guess what I'm saying here is that in watching the Steelers offense early on (and being in PA, I've watched most of their games as long as they don't conflict with Giants games), there's no question the line was healthier and better than what you've put on the field before. However, your offense was converting third downs at a ridiculous rate because of the focus on high completion percentage passes along with a mix of run plays. How much was that helping your offensive line to look better in your opinion (this goes for all Steelers fans)? The Steelers were very much running a "dink and dunk" type of offense and it worked wonders. Ben's stats earlier in the season bore this out. Once the offensive line started to break down (which invariably led to Ben's health issues) - why did they move away from that to Ben scrambling around like a chicken with his head cut off? Did the play calling significantly change?

 

[chuckddd]

I never said it's time to fire the FO. Wanting them to draft better doesn't mean I want everyone fired. These issues don't have to be all or nothing you know.

Other than the fact that you've opined for just that in this thread.



The simple fact of the matter is that if Ben and the o-line stay healthy, the Steelers would have been in the playoffs. I agree with harson.

Spoiler

Shoot me.

 

[boingball]

I hope for Harbowl.
Tony vs Ray would be also ok
I expect Atl vs Pats.
At least that would mean I don't have to watch it (same as last year).

 

[Dragon]

Harson gonna Harson

 

[jakncoke]

I hope for Harbowl.
Tony vs Ray would be also ok
I expect Atl vs Pats.
At least that would mean I don't have to watch it (same as last year).

Not watch the Super Bowl? wuttt?

 

[Spectral Glider]

Other than the fact that you've opined for just that in this thread.

Only in your mind.

 

[Futurevoid]

Eli will be taking Rodgers place in the Pro Bowl:

Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo

RT @Giants: QB Eli Manning will be replacing Packers QB Aaron Rodgers in this years Pro Bowl

 

[Starphoenix]

Eli will be taking Rodgers place in the Pro Bowl:

Not to be mean to Eli, but I think the next deserving QB in line should be Russell Wilson.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Rodgers has begged out of the pro bowl because of "multiple injuries." Wasn't he just bitching about guys doing this last year?

Good, drop more guys out and get Russell in!

Sigh, these guys think we're going to blow the early pick on a QB every year. If the quality isn't there, we aren't wasting that early a pick. I expect us to grab one in the second round, hopefully Tyler Wilson. Second round is the right spot for the level some of these QB's are at but we especially aren't blowing the 7th pick on one when there's better talent to be had.

:jnc at the fools that think we'd take Barkley at 7. Kinda crazy to think we were all talking about him going #1 this time last year and joking about teams going malarkey for Barkley.

:jnc at anyone taking a QB in the top ~17 this year period.

 

[harSon]

These two things are antithetical, no?

One one hand, you're saying that Ben shouldn't take the checkdown or throw the ball away or else you'd end up with short drives or 3 and outs. Therefore he must scramble and go for the deep ball to keep the offense moving.

On the other you're saying Haley is at fault for not completely abandoning the run therefore putting you in long down and distance situations where defenses knew you were going to pass. But then your line your line can't pass protect at all so...

You realize the backwards nature of both of these comments? My line can't pass block so therefore Haley should give up on the run and my QB should be looking for the deep ball? I'm not being flippant here, I'm genuinely trying to understand the logic.

Haley's offense worked best when our offensive line was healthy and capable of playing as a unit consistently. We were able to run block and pass block, allowing us to mix our offensive playbook and ensure that 3rd down (if we got to that point) was manageable. This is why our offense had the best 3rd down percentage in the league before Ben went down with injury.

Once our offensive line was decimated with injury, we couldn't run worth a shit and our pass blocking was mediocre. Teams no longer respected the run, at all. While our pass blocking was mediocre, between Ben's ability to shed a tackle and the offensive line itself, we could at least get some pass plays off. But Haley ran our offense as if we still had the offensive line of the middle portion of the season. So he'd run on 1st, and often times run on 2nd, and it'd get stuffed for a loss/no gain/1-2 yards... and maybe we'd do a horrible screen/dump off/quick throw to the sideline and our offense would find itself in 3rd and long. The defense knows we can't run, even under situations where it's not clear we'll run, so they pretty much know for a fact that we're not going run on 3rd and long. So they know for a fact that we're going to pass, and when defenses know you're going to pass and that your offensive line is mediocre, they're going to blitz. So we always found ourselves in 3rd and long, getting blitzed, and under this situation, Ben can either A) Scramble to potentially create a play B) Throw to the check down receiver and probably not get the first or C) Throw the ball away and guarantee that the play is not a 1st. If Ben goes with B and C all of the time, our offense is going to be punting every drive.

Basically, what I'm saying, is with a mediocre offensive line that can't pass or run block, you have to be unpredictable. This means passing on run downs and taking chances. Run, Run, Pass. Or Run, short pass, pass. Etc. is just going guarantee an anemic offensive output because the defense knows exactly what you're going to do on every drive. If I, a mere fan of football, can predict on a consistent basis what our offense does on a given play, then NFL players and coaches are sure as hell going to know what's going to be called.

 

[Futurevoid]

Not to be mean to Eli, but I think the next deserving QB in line should be Russell Wilson.

I don't disagree. It's the Pro-Bowl. It's 75% fan voting and he was next in line in that regard.

Matt Ryan
Russel Wilson

Would both be better options in terms of the years they had.

The defense knows we can't run even, under situations where it's not clear we'll run, so they know we're not going run on 3rd and long. So they know for a fact that we're going to run, and when defenses know you're going to pass and that your offensive line is mediocre, they're going to blitz. So we always found ourselves in 3rd and long, getting blitzed, and under this situation, Ben can either A) Scramble to create a play B) Throw to the check down receiver and probably not get the first or C) Throw the ball away and guarantee that the play is not a 1st. If Ben goes with B and C all of the time, our offense is going to be punting every drive.

So what's your blitz beater? I understand what you're saying but I'd love to see film of some of those plays where Ben is scrambling to see what his outlets were. I have a tough time believing Haley was calling for long developing routes in all of those situations or even most of them considering your offense just wasn't built that way from the get-go.

Might be a project for this weekend to open up the professorial thread on.

 

[jakncoke]

Good, drop more guys out and get Russell in!



:jnc at anyone taking a QB in the top ~17 this year period.

Using draft history of the past 20 years, there been 1-2 qbs drafted in the top 17 every years since a long time ago. So regardless the weak class someone going top 17

 

[chuckddd]

Only in your mind.

If the Steelers have a 6-10 season next year, I wonder who goes, Colbert or Tomlin. The drafting has been suspect lately and the on field performance not much better.

Just saying, it's been awhile since they hit a home run in the draft. At some point, somebody will have to answer for the diminishing returns. Rooneys are already pulling the strings on coordinators, can't imagine they'll sit still if the L column keeps growing.

Also, a big fuck you for making me use gaf's craptacular search engine!

 

[Futurevoid]

Bills update:

Patricia Traina @Patricia_Traina

Former Giants RB Tyrone Wheatley will be the Bills' new RB coach. He was an assisstant coach at Syracuse.

Eagles update:

Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo

Heavy focus on Bradley + Whisenhunt with Eagles but don't discount Billick. He's still in this.

So Whisenhunt as the offensive coordinator with Bradley as HC. Interesting.

 

[cajunator]

I hope my coworker gets fired.

 

[Starphoenix]

I don't disagree. It's the Pro-Bowl. It's 75% fan voting and he was next in line in that regard.

Matt Ryan
Russel Wilson

Would both be better options in terms of the years they had.

Well, at least I'll get my Manning Bros. Bowl after all.

Spoiler

 

[BaltimoreLarry]

Steelers fans turning on each other....this is what repeated Ravens success does.

 

[cajunator]

I cant wait to see what repeated Browns success does.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

These two things are antithetical, no?

One one hand, you're saying that Ben shouldn't take the checkdown or throw the ball away or else you'd end up with short drives or 3 and outs. Therefore he must scramble and go for the deep ball to keep the offense moving.

On the other you're saying Haley is at fault for not completely abandoning the run therefore putting you in long down and distance situations where defenses knew you were going to pass. But then your line can't pass protect at all so...

You realize the backwards nature of both of these comments? My line can't pass block so therefore Haley should give up on the run and my QB should be looking for the deep ball? I'm not being flippant here, I'm genuinely trying to understand the logic.

I guess what I'm saying here is that in watching the Steelers offense early on (and being in PA, I've watched most of their games as long as they don't conflict with Giants games), there's no question the line was healthier and better than what you've put on the field before. However, your offense was converting third downs at a ridiculous rate because of the focus on high completion percentage passes along with a mix of run plays. How much was that helping your offensive line to look better in your opinion (this goes for all Steelers fans)? The Steelers were very much running a "dink and dunk" type of offense and it worked wonders. Ben's stats earlier in the season bore this out. Once the offensive line started to break down (which invariably led to Ben's health issues) - why did they move away from that to Ben scrambling around like a chicken with his head cut off? Did the play calling significantly change?

The offensive line was a mixed bag to begin the season. On one hand, they were never better in the pass game. On the other, they couldn't run block for shit. You'll recall I lamented that Redman and Dwyer were averaging like 2.7 YPC or thereabouts. That's very important - the run game looked like shit, but Ben was still great. He was dialed in to Haley's philosophy and he never looked better.

Halfway through the line was beasting on both sides - Colon and Adams were springing the run game, Dwyer and Redman looked like superstars, and Ben was still thriving. Then came the Chiefs game. Ben gets injured, the o-line problems start (Colon's season ending injury happened in the first Ravens game were Suggs cut blocked him full on during a pull) and when Ben came back he reverted to backyard Ben.

I don't disagree. It's the Pro-Bowl. It's 75% fan voting and he was next in line in that regard.

Matt Ryan
Russel Wilson

Would both be better options in terms of the years they had.


So what's your blitz beater? I understand what you're saying but I'd love to see film of some of those plays where Ben is scrambling to see what his outlets were. I have a tough time believing Haley was calling for long developing routes in all of those situations or even most of them considering your offense just wasn't built that way from the get-go.

Might be a project for this weekend to open up the professorial thread on.

Ben wasn't going to his hot read. I've watched the big late season losses (Cowboys, Bengals) enough to knoe that. He wanted to make something happen and it cost the whole team.

 

[harSon]

In the beginning of the season, the pass blocking is great but the run blocking is horrific, Ben looks great! In the middle of the season, the pass and run blocking is great, Ben looks great! At the tail end of the season, the offensive line is injured and the pass/run blocking is awful, Ben is injured and looks like garbage!

What's at fault? Most people would point out the elephant in the room, ie. the lack of an offensive line and Ben's rib/shoulder injury on his throwing arm, but naw, Ben's not faithful to the offensive scheme!

Makes perfect sense.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

In the beginning of the season, the pass blocking is great but the run blocking is horrific, Ben looks great! In the middle of the season, the pass and run blocking is great, Ben looks great! At the tail end of the season, the offensive line is injured and the pass/run blocking is awful, Ben is injured and looks like garbage!

What's at fault? Most people would point out the elephant in the room, ie. the lack of an offensive line and Ben's rib/shoulder injury on his throwing arm, but naw, Ben's not faithful to the offensive scheme!

Makes perfect sense.

The O-line was having injuries and Ben still looked good because he was all in.

Also "shit o-line" is the last reason you would abandon the short stuff.

 

[BigAT]

Not to be mean to Eli, but I think the next deserving QB in line should be Russell Wilson.

The Pro Bowl isn't about getting deserving players in, don't be silly.

 

[jakncoke]

Pro Bowl is a joke.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Go Pats

 

[harSon]

The O-line was having injuries and Ben still looked good because he was all in.

Also "shit o-line" is the last reason you would abandon the short stuff.

And they continued to get injured to the point where the right side of the offensive line had 2 rookies with one game of NFL experience between the two, and we had people like Pouncey playing Guard.

And I didn't say we should abandon the short stuff. I said we shouldn't A) Be predictable and B) Constantly put ourselves in 3rd and long due to our predictability and short game.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Also, a big fuck you for making me use gaf's craptacular search engine!

How is a what if scenario calling for everyone's head? It was a serious question that nobody entertained. If they have a losing season next year, why wouldn't one of them be on the hot seat? They got ousted by Tebow and the Rooneys ran Arians out of town. You telling me they won't consider more serious moves if they put up a shit season? When Cowher had his first back to back non playoff seasons, guess what, Tom Donahoe was sent packing.

 

[squicken]

Not to be mean to Eli, but I think the next deserving QB in line should be Russell Wilson.

Too busy watching film to Pro Bowl

edit: Albert Breer does a mock draft as well, but it's put together from talks to personnel people. None of them think there will be a QB in the first round

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-drafts/albert-breer/155117

 

[crimzonflame]

Remember in the beginning of the season when I said that the Ravens are going to the Super Bowl and Flacco would win MVP and you guys all laughed at me?

EAT CROW

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Remember in the beginning of the season when I said that the Ravens are going to the Super Bowl and Flacco would win MVP and you guys all laughed at me?

EAT CROW

Didnt you also say Peyton would win it all too?

 

[Godslay]

Remember in the beginning of the season when I said that the Ravens are going to the Super Bowl and Flacco would win MVP and you guys all laughed at me?

EAT CROW

There is still plenty of time left to laugh at you. Don't count all your crow eggs before they hatch.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Too busy watching film to Pro Bowl

edit: Albert Breer does a mock draft as well, but it's put together from talks to personnel people. None of them think there will be a QB in the first round

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-drafts/albert-breer/155117

Would the Niners take another RB? Is Kendall Hunter done or leaving or something?

Also amazing that Tennessee was the shitshow they were with two potential first round WRs.

 

[chuckddd]

Didnt you also say Peyton would win it all too?

Mike Vick.

 

[Blackace]

Bills update:



Eagles update:


So Whisenhunt as the offensive coordinator with Bradley as HC. Interesting.

Ty!!! Awesome

Remember in the beginning of the season when I said that the Ravens are going to the Super Bowl and Flacco would win MVP and you guys all laughed at me?

EAT CROW

Wait the Ravens are in the Super Bowl?

 

[Tom Penny]

Wait the Ravens are in the Super Bowl?

Not yet. Flacco was MVP this year though.

 

[jakncoke]

Too busy watching film to Pro Bowl

edit: Albert Breer does a mock draft as well, but it's put together from talks to personnel people. None of them think there will be a QB in the first round

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-drafts/albert-breer/155117

Last time that has happened was 1996, when Tony Banks was the first qb off the board at pick #42.

1988: Tom Tupa #68
1985: Randal Cunningham #37
1984: Boomer Esiason #38
1974: Danny White #53
1941: Paul Christman round 2 pick 13
1940: Roy Zimmerman #58

So it'd mark 8th time in draft history that would of occurred if it does happen this year

Remember in the beginning of the season when I said that the Ravens are going to the Super Bowl and Flacco would win MVP and you guys all laughed at me?

EAT CROW

From a joke character that drinks milk from a bag? NEVER!

 

[chuckddd]

Last time that has happened was 1996, when Tony Banks was the first qb off the board at pick #42.

1988: Tom Tupa #68
1985: Randal Cunningham #37
1984: Boomer Esiason #38
1974: Danny White #53
1941: Paul Christman round 2 pick 13
1940: Roy Zimmerman #58

So it'd mark 8th time in draft history that would of occurred if it does happen this year

'88 doesn't count. Tupa was a punter!

If Cunningham was in the draft this year, everyone would be creaming themselves to take him #1.

 

[Tom Penny]

Why wouldn't Johnny Football come out and get paid or is he not eligible?

 

[ActStriker]

Why wouldn't Johnny Football come out and get paid?

He's a freshman

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Why wouldn't Johnny Football come out and get paid or is he not eligible?

He's not eligible.

 

[jakncoke]

'88 doesn't count. Tupa was a punter!

If Cunningham was in the draft this year, everyone would be creaming themselves to take him #1.

He was a qb first before flopping and becoming a punter to stay in the league was he not?

 

[Tom Penny]

He's a freshman

Is that some racist rule they made like in college hoops / NBA? You should be able to make money anytime someone is willing to pay you.

 

[chuckddd]

He was a qb first before flopping and becoming a punter to stay in the league was he not?

The original Tim Tebow. Actually, he did both in college, so he always had a fall back position.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Is that some racist rule they made like in college hoops / NBA?

Been like for a while, at least as long as I can remember.

Most 18 year olds don't belong on the same field with grown men.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Is that some racist rule they made like in college hoops / NBA?

You have to be 3 years out from high school.

 

[Dragon]

Remember in the beginning of the season when I said that the Ravens are going to the Super Bowl and Flacco would win MVP and you guys all laughed at me?

EAT CROW

Flacco isn't top 20 in MVP voting. Go sniff glue elsewhere.

 

[crimzonflame]

From a joke character that drinks milk from a bag? NEVER!

have you ever tried milk from a bag? Its fresher and it tastes better.

 

[crimzonflame]

Oh and i obviously meant super bowl MVP. Regular season MVP award is useless

 

[KaYotiX]

Pro Bowl is a joke.

This. Players just walk around on the field for a few hours.

and IF the Ravens won the Super Bowl Flacco still wouldn't win MVP. They would prolly give it to his WRs for making him look like a decent QB.

 

[jakncoke]

Is that some racist rule they made like in college hoops / NBA? You should be able to make money anytime someone is willing to pay you.

Joke post?

Weird cant even find info on the origin of it, is that an original draft rule? On one hand it doesnt seem like it, on the other I guess it could be.

 

[Baconsammy]

This. Players just walk around on the field for a few hours.

It's worth it just to hear Fraudgers whine about the lack of competitive play.

Is that some racist rule they made like in college hoops / NBA? You should be able to make money anytime someone is willing to pay you.

Race isn't a factor in either leagues, imo. The college game is a feeder league for the NFL. Destroy the college game and the NFL takes a bit of hit. Creating stars in the college game helps the pro game, and also helps the college game by keeping players in school longer.