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[Alligatorjandro]

What a crazy day it was.

 

[Wrayfield]

Surprised there wasn't a proper fight after that one. Also, watch #21, looks funny.

 

[Cagey]

I watched Schiano order this particular maneuver for a decade at Rutgers. I was alarmed that no one knew it was coming, given that he's a rookie head coach in his second game, and articles from the Star Ledger highlighted the Giants staff reviewing Rutgers tape to get an understanding of Schiano's tendencies.

 

[bionic77]

Honestly with how bad the replacement refs have been I don't blame the Bucs for trying.

Pretty much every safety so far has been blatantly ignoring the rules on protecting the receivers and most are getting away with it. PI is called when the defender doesn't touch the receiver (see Ike Taylor play yesterday) and not called when they are mugging them.

Smart players and coaches should be cheating like mofo's until the real refs come back or these slobs learn the rules.

I mean considering how badly they fucked up even a forward pass in the Eagles game the Bucs were smart to just try and get the game tying (or possibly winning) fumble for a TD return and then hope there was no good angle on the replay.

 

[Futurevoid]

To me that doesn't look like anyone is going for knees. It looks like they expected the Giants to at least offer some pushback

I don't think anyone was intentionally going for knees either to be honest. I think it was a consequence of them playing a sneak defense on a pretty clear kneel down. The "issue" with it is that Schiano's commentary post game is pretty clear that he knew it was kneel down and instructed his defense to try and dislodge the ball anyway.

Illegal? No. Not at all but with no timeouts it's one of those agreed upon things between coaches that you don't do. Hence why Coughlin went all crazy about it.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I am actually digging this Haley offense. It doesn't seem anything special to most teams in the league who had competent offensive coordinators, but seeing Haley mix things up, keep feeding the running game (even though it has failed the first two weeks it makes sense because it at least keeps the D honest and helps with the rush against our garbo o-line), putting an emphasis on the short pass, and most importantly spreading the ball is refreshing as fuck.

Granted Arians philosophy of telling Ben to run around for 2 minutes and try to throw it to Wallace for the TD and if he is not open throw it to Brown got us points and was exciting, but we had so many 3 and outs and it put too much pressure on the D. I think at the very least Haley will be good for Ben. And this is just week two. I imagine that the o will continue to improve every week as they all get more comfortable running the offense.

Now if only the defense would get younger/healthier and ditto for the offensive line. I miss you DeCastro. Get well soon!

Haley has already proved to be better than Arians due to ball control. The Steelers hold the ball forever now.

I just wish our o-line could run block even a little bit. The Steelers now have zero running game despite running by committee. Starks, Foster and Gilbert are horrible.

Anyway, great game last night. I know Steelers age was pulling their hair out that first drive when Sanchez actually seemed to be for real and shredding the D, but after that drive everything seemed to settle down.

Hampton is finished. He's getting pushed around like BJ Raji on the run. McClendon came in and set the tone for the game (and Greene went out injured) and all of a sudden the Jets couldn't run to save their lives.

Larry Foote is our best LB two games in. Who'da thunk? He looks five years younger these first two games. Timmons looks jealous, because he actually showed up this game. Woodley has the right locked down, but neither Carter nor Worilds are getting to the QB. Both need to work on their bull rush, because they're easily pushed along with their speed rush.

I don't think anyone was intentionally going for knees either to be honest. I think it was a consequence of them playing a sneak defense on a pretty clear kneel down. The "issue" with it is that Schiano's commentary post game is pretty clear that he knew it was kneel down and instructed his defense to try and dislodge the ball anyway.

Illegal? No. Not at all but with no timeouts it's one of those agreed upon things between coaches that you don't do. Hence why Coughlin went all crazy about it.

Gotta be honest; I agree with Schiano. Game's not over, try to win. I find it refreshing frankly.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I don't think anyone was intentionally going for knees either to be honest. I think it was a consequence of them playing a sneak defense on a pretty clear kneel down. The "issue" with it is that Schiano's commentary post game is pretty clear that he knew it was kneel down and instructed his defense to try and dislodge the ball anyway.

Illegal? No. Not at all but with no timeouts it's one of those agreed upon things between coaches that you don't do. Hence why Coughlin went all crazy about it.

Was the clock at 0?

 

[darkside31337]

Honestly with how bad the replacement refs have been I don't blame the Bucs for trying.

Pretty much every safety so far has been blatantly ignoring the rules on protecting the receivers and most are getting away with it. PI is called when the defender doesn't touch the receiver (see Ike Taylor play yesterday) and not called when they are mugging them.

Smart players and coaches should be cheating like mofo's until the real refs come back or these slobs learn the rules.

I mean considering how badly they fucked up even a forward pass in the Eagles game the Bucs were smart to just try and get the game tying (or possibly winning) fumble for a TD return and then hope there was no good angle on the replay.

The Bucs didn't break any rules there. Perhaps they broke some unwritten gentlemanly rule of sportsmanship but not any actual NFL rule.

I think its awesome that a team didn't just let the opposition do the kneel down. Play hard for 60 minutes.

 

[Futurevoid]

Peter King is a moron but he does have it right that players are taking advantage of officials.

Smart players and coaches should be cheating like mofo's until the real refs come back or these slobs learn the rules.

I don't generally care to comment on calls during the game unless there's something egregious but I honestly was about to start a fund for Talib yesterday.

With as much as he was grabbing and pulling on Hakeen Nicks' jersey, I thought he maybe didn't have enough money to buy one so I figured we could chip in and buy him one!

That shit goes both ways though. Plenty of stuff not called on the other side.

Was the clock at 0?

No. Hence why I said it wasn't illegal.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Gotta be honest; I agree with Schiano. Game's not over, try to win. I find it refreshing frankly.

Yeah, when you really sit back and think about it it's hard to fault the guy. He's a rookie coach who's teaching his players to play hard on every play regardless of the score or how much time is left. I can't really argue with that, you know?

 

[eznark]

Pretty much every safety so far has been blatantly ignoring the rules on protecting the receivers and most are getting away with it. PI is called when the defender doesn't touch the receiver (see Ike Taylor play yesterday) and not called when they are mugging them.

Nah, they are overcalling PI and undercalling holding on the secondary but it's consistent.

As for safety concerns, the NFLPA is defending the Saints, so all safety concerns are rendered meaningless.

Gotta be honest; I agree with Schiano. Game's not over, try to win. I find it refreshing frankly.

Same. It's on the Giants for thinking the other team rolled over.

 

[Rorschach]

Digital Skip Bayless is a hater.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Crazy shit happens in games.Maybe the Bucs cause Eli to fumble and return it.Didnt Rivers fumble a kneel down against the Chiefs last year?

 

[dschalter]

Gotta be honest; I agree with Schiano. Game's not over, try to win. I find it refreshing frankly.

He wasn't trying to win anything.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

He wasn't trying to win anything.

The principle is play hard every play regardless of the score or time left in the game until the game is over. It's pretty simple, really.

 

[Victory Red]

If there's two people you don't want to be scolded by in the NFL its Bellichik and Coughlin.

Schiano must have felt like shit when he got home.

 

[eznark]

If the cheat scolded me I'd laugh in his smug mug. Guy is a cheater to the core, if he thinks I am doing something wrong I'd feel pretty damn excellent about myself.

 

[cashman]

Weird the Giants and their fans are whining about the other team trying to play football.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Biggest problem for the Giants in this situation is that they keep embarrassing the NFL by taking dives. The Rams game last year, and now twice at the goal line. I will admit though that yesterdays dive wasn't nearly as embarrassing as the one in the Super Bowl. FFS it's a worldwide stage and these pussies are diving to the ground like soccer players. Just score the TD you pussies.

The NFL really wants a team in Europe and I think we can see now which team is the best fit for European style football.

 

[Sirpopopop]

No. Hence why I said it wasn't illegal.

That's not the point. The point is you play until clock hits zero or there is a 0.0% chance of winning.

The Bucs could have won if they had a miracle, and that's what they were playing to obtain, a fumble on the sack.

This "coaches etiquette" stuff is just weak. If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at your O-Line for not blocking.

 

[eznark]

Weird the Giants and their fans are whining about the other team trying to play football.

Says the guy crying about a block.

 

[bionic77]

Haley has already proved to be better than Arians due to ball control. The Steelers hold the ball forever now.

I just wish our o-line could run block even a little bit. The Steelers now have zero running game despite running by committee. Starks, Foster and Gilbert are horrible.

Anyway, great game last night. I know Steelers age was pulling their hair out that first drive when Sanchez actually seemed to be for real and shredding the D, but after that drive everything seemed to settle down.

Hampton is finished. He's getting pushed around like BJ Raji on the run. McClendon came in and set the tone for the game (and Greene went out injured) and all of a sudden the Jets couldn't run to save their lives.

Larry Foote is our best LB two games in. Who'da thunk? He looks five years younger these first two games. Timmons looks jealous, because he actually showed up this game. Woodley has the right locked down, but neither Carter nor Worilds are getting to the QB. Both need to work on their bull rush, because they're easily pushed along with their speed rush.

It is hard to say how good Haley is considering how horrible Arians was. But I think a crazy disciplinarian will be good for Ben who got too comfortable for Arians.

Yeah the running has sucked serious dick, but Arians never wanted to run anyways and would have abandoned it by the 2nd quarter. It definitely helps in a close game to keep running the ball because it is going to give our shit offensive line some breathing room and hopefully it pays dividends later this season.

The defense looked pretty bad in that first drive, but then Sanchez either remembered he was Sanchez or else he got spooked by being so close to Tebow on the sidelines (understandable). It was hilarious how the announcers were talking about how Mark was lifting weights in the offseason and how now the game just seemed so easy. :lol As if just doing some curls can make you into a great qb. If it were that easy we would have 31 elite qb's in the league and Stafford (can't be bothered to work out!).

I am also shocked at how well Foote is playing. Timmons doesn't seem to make any big plays anymore. He is just adequate, but he needs to be spectacular for what we are paying him. He is the guy who is supposed to control the middle of the field, not an old guy like Foote. The guys in the secondary looked a lot better against the Jets receivers, who admittedly are not great. The most worrying thing was how easy it was to run on our defense until Greene got that concussion. Might be time to unleash Ziggy or at least start McClendon. Hampton is either injured or washed up. Hard to say. Hoping Harrison still has it on the left side or else it is going to be a loooooong season on defense!

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I don't think anyone was intentionally going for knees either to be honest. I think it was a consequence of them playing a sneak defense on a pretty clear kneel down. The "issue" with it is that Schiano's commentary post game is pretty clear that he knew it was kneel down and instructed his defense to try and dislodge the ball anyway.

Illegal? No. Not at all but with no timeouts it's one of those agreed upon things between coaches that you don't do. Hence why Coughlin went all crazy about it.

Going after the ball when the game is still not over? What a bunch of scumbags!


Question about the replacement refs: During last night's Niner/CryinLion game, in the 4th when they called that offensive PI on Petis, shouldn't' that have also been a loss of down?

 

[Striker]

Biggest problem for the Giants in this situation is that they keep embarrassing the NFL by taking dives. The Rams game last year, and now twice at the goal line. I will admit though that yesterdays dive wasn't nearly as embarrassing as the one in the Super Bowl. FFS it's a worldwide stage and these pussies are diving to the ground like soccer players. Just score the TD you pussies.

How is a back basically kneeling and killing clock embarrassing the NFL? You've watched Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt duck and fall down to avoid contact for 10 years, and this is what you're concerned about?

 

[Victory Red]

Biggest problem for the Giants in this situation is that they keep embarrassing the NFL by taking dives. The Rams game last year, and now twice at the goal line. I will admit though that yesterdays dive wasn't nearly as embarrassing as the one in the Super Bowl. FFS it's a worldwide stage and these pussies are diving to the ground like soccer players. Just score the TD you pussies.

The NFL really wants a team in Europe and I think we can see now which team is the best fit for European style football.

What?

You can't really believe what you just said, right?


It isn't any more embarrassing for Bradshaw to fall down at the one yardline than it is to tell your entire defense to "Let them score." Where's the integrity in that?

 

[bionic77]

Nah, they are overcalling PI and undercalling holding on the secondary but it's consistent.

As for safety concerns, the NFLPA is defending the Saints, so all safety concerns are rendered meaningless.

I am not sure I ever saw anything as bizarre as when the Ravens clearly convinced the officials that Michael Vick fumbled on a clear forward pass (probably grounding when you think about it, but I don't think the scabs have gotten that far in the playbook yet).

And it takes them FOREVER to review anything. Let the booth do it until the real refs come back. The delays are annoying.

Next year the NFL might want to allow reviews on PI. The calls are just too important to leave to the refs on the field. Even the real refs fuck it up enough that it should be something that can be reviewed.

 

[eznark]

That falls under the "if it might be a turnover it should be ruled as such" contingency that we will live under with any officials going forward as long as the replay rules are the way they are.

And dumbass, the review officials aren't replacements.

What?

You can't really believe what you just said, right?


It isn't any more embarrassing for Bradshaw to fall down at the one yardline than it is to tell your entire defense to "Let them score." Where's the integrity in that?

 

[Futurevoid]

Same. It's on the Giants for thinking the other team rolled over.

..and this is where I disagree a bit. The Giants were playing a kneel down as it's been done in the NFL for ages now. You don't go into that thinking the other team is going to crash the line. Most any head coach in the NFL would have played that the same way. You just don't go into that expecting a team to crash the line with 20 some odd seconds left.

If we're arguing that the gentlemen's agreement we're discussing should be thrown out - ok but let's be real, this is how its been done in the NFL forever.

 

[darkside31337]

Biggest problem for the Giants in this situation is that they keep embarrassing the NFL by taking dives. The Rams game last year, and now twice at the goal line. I will admit though that yesterdays dive wasn't nearly as embarrassing as the one in the Super Bowl. FFS it's a worldwide stage and these pussies are diving to the ground like soccer players. Just score the TD you pussies.

The NFL really wants a team in Europe and I think we can see now which team is the best fit for European style football.

What? Schiano made the right decision to tell his defense to let them score and Coughlin did the right thing by telling his team to take a knee at the 1.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

If we're arguing that the gentlemen's agreement we're discussing should be thrown out - ok but let's be real, this is how its been done in the NFL forever.

I've seen teams go after the kneel down a LOT, the difference is the other team usually offers some sort of resistance so it leads to a bunch of guys pushing and shoving at the line. The Giants acted like the Bucs were just going to lay down so they got steamrolled and it looked worse. You play til the clock says 0:00. It's not the Bucs' fault that the Giants didn't.

 

[dschalter]

The principle is play hard every play regardless of the score or time left in the game until the game is over. It's pretty simple, really.

Being a good sport and not wanting to injure players from either side are relevant things as well. The chance somebody gets injured there is real, the chance that that they recover is infinitesimally small.

 

[eznark]

Players are ok with paying each other to injure one and other. I don't give a flying fuck about their injury chances since they clearly don't. And look at Cruz's dance, no one gives a fuck about good sportsmanship either.

..and this is where I disagree. The Giants were playing a kneel down as it's been done in the NFL forever. You don't go into that thinking the other team is going to crash the line. Most any head coach in the NFL would have played that the same way. You don't go into that expecting a team to crash the line with 20 some odd seconds left.

If we're arguing that the gentlemen's agreement we're discussing should be thrown out - ok but let's be real, this is how its been done in the NFL forever.

False. It has absolutely not been this way forever. Once a season goes by without a quarterback in any game every once fumbling a snap, then I will agree with you that teams should give up on kneel downs. In many kneel downs you still see down linemen pop their hands just on the off-chance that a fumble happens. Generally they don't also drive with their legs, but I don't see why they shouldn't.

If the Giants line had offered even a scant amount of resistance there would have been zero line collapse.

 

[Hellion]

Skip : It was Tebow Time YESTERDAY!

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Going after the ball when the game is still not over? What a bunch of scumbags!


Question about the replacement refs: During last night's Niner/CryinLion game, in the 4th when they called that offensive PI on Petis, shouldn't' that have also been a loss of down?

You don't lose a down for pi

 

[Futurevoid]

This "coaches etiquette" stuff is just weak. If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at your O-Line for not blocking.

Which is fine but it's sort of nonsense to say Coughlin or the offensive line played it wrong when it's been done this way for years.

For posterity, I'm not seeing where you think I'm mad about anything? It's a discussion.

Once a season goes by without a quarterback in any game every once fumbling a snap, then I will agree with you that teams should give up on kneel downs. In many kneel downs you still see down linemen pop their hands just on the off-chance that a fumble happens. Generally they don't also drive with their legs, but I don't see why they shouldn't.

Fair point.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

I think too much is being made of this.

 

[eznark]

Probably but there isn't much else to discuss. Every team is who we thought they were, the good teams won and the bad teams lost yesterday. Order restored.

You don't lose a down for pi

Did your clown coach apologize to the officials for trying to fuck with them like that?

 

[dschalter]

Players are ok with paying each other to injure one and other. I don't give a flying fuck about their injury chances since they clearly don't. And look at Cruz's dance, no one gives a fuck about good sportsmanship either.



False. It has absolutely not been this way forever. Once a season goes by without a quarterback in any game every once fumbling a snap, then I will agree with you that teams should give up on kneel downs. In many kneel downs you still see down linemen pop their hands just on the off-chance that a fumble happens. Generally they don't also drive with their legs, but I don't see why they shouldn't.

If the Giants line had offered even a scant amount of resistance there would have been zero line collapse.

How many NFL games have featured a kneel down at the end of the game being recovered by the opposing team?

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Did your clown coach apologize to the officials for trying to fuck with them like that?

Lions got so many bs calls and non calls that we were owed that!

 

[Sirpopopop]

Which is fine but it's sort of nonsense to say Coughlin or the offensive line played it wrong when it's been done this way for years.

For posterity, I'm not seeing where you think I'm mad about anything? It's a discussion.


Fair point.

The o-line not blocking until the end of the game is not something that's been done for years.

How many NFL games have featured a kneel down at the end of the game being recovered?

The "Miracle at the Meadowlands" would have never happened if the Giants didn't notice that the Eagles were trying to do the exact thing Schiano did here, and compensate for it.

So yes, while it didn't happen exactly like you posted, a team going for it during kneel downs did effect a game's outcome at the end.

 

[eznark]

How many NFL games have featured a kneel down at the end of the game being recovered?

No idea. How many times has a player been injured on an aggressive kneel down?

Lions got so many bs calls and non calls that we were owed that!

RICE FUMBLED YOU ARE OWED NOTHING!

NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Victory Red]

False. It has absolutely not been this way forever. Once a season goes by without a quarterback in any game every once fumbling a snap, then I will agree with you that teams should give up on kneel downs. In many kneel downs you still see down linemen pop their hands just on the off-chance that a fumble happens. Generally they don't also drive with their legs, but I don't see why they shouldn't.

If the Giants line had offered even a scant amount of resistance there would have been zero line collapse.

It's called the Victory Formation for a reason. Your team lost, that's it. This is not the Super Bowl, its week 2.

It's just something you don't do. Especially not when you're a college coach playing your first season as a coach in the NFL against the coach who's won 2 superbowls and has the most seniority in the league.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

How many NFL games have featured a kneel down at the end of the game being recovered?

Yesterday could have been the first.

If you go into the game thinking "there's no way that will work" then you've already lost. Try it and fail instead of second guessing yourself out of it.

 

[eznark]

It's called the Victory Formation for a reason. Your team lost, that's it. This is not the Super Bowl, its week 2.

It's just something you don't do. Especially not when you're a college coach playing your first season as a coach in the NFL against the coach who's won 2 superbowls and has the most seniority in the league.

Give me a fucking break.

 

[Sky Chief]

Honestly with how bad the replacement refs have been I don't blame the Bucs for trying.

Pretty much every safety so far has been blatantly ignoring the rules on protecting the receivers and most are getting away with it. PI is called when the defender doesn't touch the receiver (see Ike Taylor play yesterday) and not called when they are mugging them.

Smart players and coaches should be cheating like mofo's until the real refs come back or these slobs learn the rules.

I mean considering how badly they fucked up even a forward pass in the Eagles game the Bucs were smart to just try and get the game tying (or possibly winning) fumble for a TD return and then hope there was no good angle on the replay.

Jeff Fisher and the Rams did this brilliantly. Never seen a team take so many cheap shots and get away with it in a game. I am sure they will be getting plenty of fines this week, Roger Goodell could not have been happy sitting at home watching this game. Congrats on the win St. Louis, too bad your team lost all dignity in the process.

Yes, I'm salty, we need real refs back soon before someone gets seriously hurt.

 

[WanderingWind]

It's called the Victory Formation for a reason. Your team lost, that's it. This is not the Super Bowl, its week 2.

It's just something you don't do. Especially not when you're a college coach playing your first season as a coach in the NFL against the coach who's won 2 superbowls and has the most seniority in the league.

Your first point has merit. Your second point is "bow down and kiss the rings" which is fucking stupid.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

It's called the Victory Formation for a reason. Your team lost, that's it. This is not the Super Bowl, its week 2.

It's just something you don't do. Especially not when you're a college coach playing your first season as a coach in the NFL against the coach who's won 2 superbowls and has the most seniority in the league.

Get the fuck out of here with that shit. you play to win. These "unwritten rules" are the reason the Giants lost a player in the offseason.

 

[Futurevoid]

The "Miracle at the Meadowlands" would have never happened if the Giants didn't notice that the Eagles were trying to do the exact thing Schiano did here.

Instead they flubbed the hand off. They would have been better of taking the knee and hanging onto the ball for dear life. :jnc

 

[Ninja Scooter]

It's called the Victory Formation for a reason. Your team lost, that's it. This is not the Super Bowl, its week 2.

It's just something you don't do. Especially not when you're a college coach playing your first season as a coach in the NFL against the coach who's won 2 superbowls and has the most seniority in the league.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Victory Red]

So now there's no respect in the NFL.

You can't tell me it doesn't make it any worse when you're the new coach in town and you're calling cheap shots against the defending super bowl champions.