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NFL 2013 Preseason/Training Camp thread - Doritos Locos

S

Starphoenix

Member
Objectively, who is the QB with the best leadership ability? Not sure who I'd pick for that contest. Tebow maybe, but he's not a starter anymore, so he's disqualified from this discussion.
 
B

BigAT

Member
Starphoenix said:
Objectively, who is the QB with the best leadership ability? Not sure who I'd pick for that contest. Tebow maybe, but he's not a starter anymore, so he's disqualified from this discussion.
Click to expand...

Objectively?

eli2v9k8s.gif
 
T

Talon

Member
Starphoenix said:
Objectively, who is the QB with the best leadership ability? Not sure who I'd pick for that contest. Tebow maybe, but he's not a starter anymore, so he's disqualified from this discussion.
Click to expand...
How the hell could we objectively measure that? It's a wholly subjective exercise based on public perception and a handful of private anecdotes.

Do you want us to objectively measure "clutch," too?
 
C

Colasante

Member
Starphoenix said:
Objectively, who is the QB with the best leadership ability? Not sure who I'd pick for that contest. Tebow maybe, but he's not a starter anymore, so he's disqualified from this discussion.
Click to expand...

I would go with Brady as well. I'm definitely of the opinion that Rodgers is the best player in the NFL at this point, but I can't think of a player ever speaking negatively about Brady. Certainly there are criticisms leveled against Belichick and Kraft by ex-players, but never Brady.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Greg said:
Privately holding another professional accountable is considering shitting on them? C'MON, MAN.

I'm not saying Rodgers is blameless in every loss, but I have seen him acknowledge his mistakes publicly, and I haven't seen him throw any players under the bus publicly.
Click to expand...

You keep saying that.

https://twitter.com/GregABedard/status/368388097983410176

Never forgot that Rodgers had a hard time taking blame for anything. Still his biggest weakness
Click to expand...

Blaming everyone but yourself is not "holding others accountable".

Talon said:
How the hell could we objectively measure that? It's a wholly subjective exercise based on public perception and a handful of private anecdotes.

Do you want us to objectively measure "clutch," too?
Click to expand...

I would say Brady without hesitation.
 
T

TheLegendary

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
You're right that it's not exclusive to Rodgers, but with Brady I can't agree. Yeah you see him yelling at his teammates but what's said is between him and them and he has never shit on them in any forum.

When I criticized Rodgers a few seasons ago I said it looks like he lacks passion. Brady may be a woman but he fights for every yard on the field and holds his teammates to the same standard. Rodgers seems to me like a guy who could give no fucks as long as he's performing well.
Click to expand...

I've never heard Rodgers throw his guys under the bus publicly which is why all of the stuff that's coming out is so weird. He yells at guys on the field on occassion, but I can honestly say I can't recall him ever criticizing them in interviews or even hint at trying to pass the blame . He has given McCarthy shit a few times for boneheaded calls/decisions he didnt agree with though. All of these complaints coming out are about how he acts in private. Between them, like you said.

DeaconKnowledge said:
You keep saying that.

https://twitter.com/GregABedard/status/368388097983410176



Blaming everyone but yourself is not "holding others accountable".


.
Click to expand...
But your whole argument about why it was okay with Brady was public vs private.
 
S

Starphoenix

Member
Talon said:
How the hell could we objectively measure that? It's a wholly subjective exercise based on public perception and a handful of private anecdotes.

Do you want us to objectively measure "clutch," too?
Click to expand...
By "objectively" I was meaning without bias. Perhaps I could have phrased it differently.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Starphoenix said:
Objectively, who is the QB with the best leadership ability? Not sure who I'd pick for that contest. Tebow maybe, but he's not a starter anymore, so he's disqualified from this discussion.
Click to expand...

The_Darkest_Red said:
Peyton, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Talon said:
How the hell could we objectively measure that? It's a wholly subjective exercise based on public perception and a handful of private anecdotes.

Do you want us to objectively measure "clutch," too?
Click to expand...

joe-flacco.jpg


Only correct answer.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
TheLegendary said:
I've never heard Rodgers throw his guys under the bus publicly which is why all of the stuff that's coming out is so weird. He yells at guys on the field on occassion, but I can honestly say I can't recall him ever criticizing them in interviews or even hint at trying to pass the blame . He has given McCarthy shit a few times for boneheaded calls/decisions he didnt agree with though. All of these complaints coming out are about how he acts in private. Between them, like you said.


But your whole argument about why it was okay with Brady was public vs private.
Click to expand...

Yeah. As Talon said, a lot of this is infered through subtext as we don't get to see or hear the backstage stuff or hear what's being said on the field.

One last thing that bothered me with Rodgers based on your comment. I've heard him rip the play calling but i've never seen him argue it when on the field. Last year against the Niners was a perfect example. McCarthy gave up on the game and Rodgers didn't fight him at all, just went along with it.

TheLegendary said:
But your whole argument about why it was okay with Brady was public vs private.
Click to expand...

I never once said that you can't hold your teammates accountable. There's a difference between that and implying/saying nothing that goes wrong is your fault. Not that Rodgers has done this, but when people ask Brady about those altercations he never gives them anything.
 
M

MechDX

Member
DUFFMCWALIN said:
Seriously how can Schaub be the starter for a very good franchise (at the moment)? I just can't wrap my head around it.
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Because he is Kubiaks love child! Duh!

Seriously, go look at his numbers. He is top 5 the past few years in every major category but one which Im sure someone here will gladly mention. I still believe that his linsfranc injury from 2011 was never fully healed and his arm went dead after throwing for nearly a 1000 yards in two games with 4 days between those games.
 
D

DUFFMCWALIN

Member
MechDX said:
Because he is Kubiaks love child! Duh!

Seriously, go look at his numbers. He is top 5 the past few years in every major category but one which Im sure someone here will gladly mention. I still believe that his linsfranc injury from 2011 was never fully healed and his arm went dead after throwing for nearly a 1000 yards in two games with 4 days between those games.
Click to expand...

I forgot about the dead arm thing. So thats what killed him.
 
G

Greg

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
You keep saying that.

https://twitter.com/GregABedard/status/368388097983410176



Blaming everyone but yourself is not "holding others accountable".



I would say Brady without hesitation.
Click to expand...
you're assuming that 'having a hard time taking the blame' means you blame everyone but yourself

and in that one players meeting that guy references where "Rodgers should thank them for telling him to get his head out of his ass" the actual article says this:

Quarterback Aaron Rodgers was told he has held onto the ball too long on occasion. The offensive line was told they weren't blocking close to well enough. The receivers heard they have dropped too many passes. The running backs had left too many yards out on the field.

According to players who were in the room, Rodgers, tackle Mark Tauscher and receiver Donald Driver were the most powerful speakers.

Many players would not reveal the details of what was said.

"All that's between us," Driver said.

But according to some players, these were the highlights:

Rodgers admitted he was part of the problem for taking too many sacks and vowed to do better. He also asked that the offensive linemen "look in the mirror" and ask themselves how they can be better.

"We all have to ask ourselves if we're doing enough," Rodgers said, "because if we're not, we're going to be sitting at home in January watching the playoffs, not playing in them. Again. I don't want to do that again."
Click to expand...
 
A

Alligatorjandro

Banned
MechDX said:
Exhibit K.

Since McNair has openly stated he modeled his franchise after the Patriots minus drafting man whores, murderers, entire Rutgers squads and the gender confused of course.
Click to expand...

They can try to be the Patriots but they wont be. Only thing the Texans know how to do is let superstars go to waste.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Starphoenix said:
Objectively, who is the QB with the best leadership ability? Not sure who I'd pick for that contest. Tebow maybe, but he's not a starter anymore, so he's disqualified from this discussion.
Click to expand...

Brady and mentioning Tebow is pretty funny. Hard to be a leader when you can't run an offense and can't throw at the QB position and overall stink. People aren't going to buy in.
 
C

Colasante

Member
It doesn't matter anymore at this point, but I think the Texans made a big mistake the past couple years when they decided not to sign either Brett Favre or Peyton Manning. I think either one of them, Favre in 2011 or Manning in 2012, would have brought the Texans to the Super Bowl.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Colasante said:
It doesn't matter anymore at this point, but I think the Texans made a big mistake the past couple years when they decided not to sign either Brett Favre or Peyton Manning. I think either one of them, Favre in 2011 or Manning in 2012, would have brought the Texans to the Super Bowl.
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Favre nor Manning would never have jelled with Kubiak. Kubiak is too damn stubborn to change and just let his QB play. Ive said it before: watch the MNF game against the Ravens in 2010. Ravens were beating ths shit out of them into the 3rd. Schaubs headset went out and they were in hurry up offense so Schaub was calling plays on the field. The basically torched the Ravens the second half. Headset came back up in OT and a pick 6 happens. Coincidence? Maybe.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Greg said:
you're assuming that 'having a hard time taking the blame' means you blame everyone but yourself

and in that one players meeting that guy references where "Rodgers should thank them for telling him to get his head out of his ass" the actual article says this:
Click to expand...

I'm going by what Bedard said.
 
C

Colasante

Member
MechDX said:
Favre...no. Manning would never have jelled with Kubiak. Kubiak is too damn stubborn to change.
Click to expand...

Not that Favre would have been a great signing, since he would have been a clash with what Rick Smith and Kubiak were trying to build, but surely you realize against the weak Patriots and Ravens in 2011 that Favre could have brought the Texans further than TJ Yates?
 
M

MechDX

Member
Alligatorjandro said:
You must really be self conscience to keep talking about my height. It must suck only to have 2 wins against the Bengals being the highlight of your team.

Either that or Rosencopter.
Click to expand...

At least we know how to beat the Ravens. You had two chances and just couldn't do it but you beat, in your words "the pathetic Texans" twice. Highlights of your season eh?

My team has existed 11 years. Yours has been around nearly 60 and you finally had success in the early 2000's. But you wouldn't know that because you are a fucking bandwagoner with no knowledge of your own team.
 
M

mr2xxx

Banned
For all the hate dick pick got it seems like he was the good guy while Judas was sitting in the wings acting like he was the good guy. Did any teammates come after Favre like this, besides cancer punching Judas?
 
A

Alligatorjandro

Banned
MechDX said:
At least we know how to beat the Ravens. You had two chances and just couldn't do it but you beat, in your words "the pathetic Texans" twice. Highlights of your season eh?

My team has existed 11 years. Yours has been around nearly 60 and you finally had success in the early 2000's. But you wouldn't know that because you are a fucking bandwagoner with no knowledge of your own team.
Click to expand...

Motherfucker I am not a bandwagoner.

Also, we started to have success when Kraft purchased the team.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Colasante said:
Not that Favre would have been a great signing, since he would have been a clash with what Rick Smith and Kubiak were trying to build, but surely you realize against the weak Patriots and Ravens in 2011 that Favre could have brought the Texans further than TJ Yates?
Click to expand...

I didn't disagree with you I just stated a known fact in Houston. It will be interesting when Peyton finally retires and the truth can come out if he really approached the Texans and they said Thanks, but no thanks. There was talk that Rick Smith did reach out to Favre and he said no. Just rumor but it was out there. There was really no one else to sign.

How often does a good football team lose its 1st and 2nd string QB's in a matter of 3 games? It was uncharted waters for everyone.

DeaconKnowledge said:
Texans won't go anywhere as long as Kubiak is coach.
Click to expand...

Sadly, I don't completely deny this as I have stated many times.
 
S

squicken

Member
Was listening to Football Guys podcast with Matt Williamson and Lance Zierlein

http://podcast.footballguys.com/2013/Footballguys-Audible-2013-Vol113a.mp3

-LZ is really high on Nuk Hopkins. Guess he is killing it in camp. He expects a 70 catch season. Really gushing about him

-The all love Luck. Williamson thinks next year Rodgers will be the best QB in football, Luck #2 . Arians throws a lot at rookies, way more than most. Luck handled it and will take a huge step this year

-Mixed feelings on Bengals. Williamson thinks Dalton limits the team to WC round, LZ thinks he can get beyond that

-Williamson loves Ben. Thinks they are contenders as long as he is healthy. All fear age of team. Williamson thinks Ravens D will go back to being cornerstone of team. Thinks they will be really strong this year

-LZ thinks Buffalo will struggle. Manuel was inconsistent in college and will have rough rookie year. Need Dareus to be what they thought Mario would be or they will struggle on D

-All down on Falcons. Worried about D and small margin of error for offense if always needing 24 points

Barnwell and Robert Mayes preview Falcons and Panthers in their NFL podcast. so far they've also done NFCN and AFCS

http://www.grantland.com/podcasts
 
M

MechDX

Member
Alligatorjandro said:
Motherfucker I am not a bandwagoner.

Also, we started to have success when Kraft purchased the team.
Click to expand...

Kraft purchased the team in 1994 so lets just ignore the 40 years before that and make dumbass comments about a team that has existed 10 fucking years. You won ONE playoff game from 1960 to 1984 then had success in 85 and then got obliterated in the Superbowl. You didn't sniff a playoff win again until 1996.

The Texans were not perfect their first few years, that I will agree to. But they were not exactly set up for great success. The league fucked McNair 3 times giving the expansion slot to LA and only when McNair told the league "Last offer, expires at midnight, take it or leave it" did the finally concede. Then they proceeded to give them a shit expansion draft in comparison to what the Panthers and Jags got before. Oh and lets ignore the fact they were put immediately in a division with a young, future hall of famer QB because the league must "respect old rivalries" even if it doesn't make sense geographically.

As much shit as I give Kubiak, he and Rick Smith had to rebuild the team a second time starting in 2006 after the complete mess left by Charley Casserly and Dom Capers. Know how many players were there two years later from that era? One, Andre Johnson. Kubiak was forced that first year to try and rehabilitate David Carr against his wishes because McNair liked Carr as a person. So yeah the franchise made mistakes but learned and moved on. Your beloved Pats don't. They like taking players with character issues so they can be "smart".

So don't tell me how much my team sucks because you picked a team coming off a Superbowl win with great pieces in place and have never experienced the shit you have to suffer through. I can respect teams and their fans from GB, Chicago, Pittsburgh, NYG, NYJ and even the few Patriots life longs I personally know because they have been there and suffered but didn't waiver in their belief that their team would get better eventually. I respect the likes of Kave because he picked a terrible organization to support but one day he can bask in the glory and safely say "I was there when we were fucking terrible!" I have no respect for Titans fans because well....fuck Bud Adams, that's why.
 
A

Alligatorjandro

Banned
MechDX said:
Kraft purchased the team in 1994 so lets just ignore the 40 years before that and make dumbass comments about a team that has existed 10 fucking years. You won ONE playoff game from 1960 to 1984 then had success in 85 and then got obliterated in the Superbowl. You didn't sniff a playoff win again until 1996.

The Texans were not perfect their first few years, that I will agree to. But they were not exactly set up for great success. The league fucked McNair 3 times giving the expansion slot to LA and only when McNair told the league "Last offer, expires at midnight, take it or leave it" did the finally concede. Then they proceeded to give them a shit expansion draft in comparison to what the Panthers and Jags got before. Oh and lets ignore the fact they were put immediately in a division with a young, future hall of famer QB because the league must "respect old rivalries" even if it doesn't make sense geographically.

So don't tell me how much my team sucks because you picked a team coming off a Superbowl win with great pieces in place and have never experienced the shit you have to suffer through. I can respect teams and their fans from GB, Chicago, Pittsburgh, NYG, NYJ and even the few Patriots life longs I personally know because they have been there and suffered but didn't waiver in their belief that their team would get better eventually. I respect the likes of Kave because he picked a terrible organization to support but one day he can bask in the glory and safely say "I was there when we were fucking terrible!" I have no respect for Titans fans because well....fuck Bud Adams, that's why.
Click to expand...

The Patriots havent won anything in almost 10 years and have had terrible losses so if I was a bandwgon fan why would I still cheer for them?
 
L

LevelNth

Banned
squicken said:
-The all love Luck. Williamson thinks next year Rodgers will be the best QB in football, Luck #2 . Arians throws a lot at rookies, way more than most. Luck handled it and will take a huge step this year
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I 100% agree. If you put Kap, Wilson, RG3 or any other rook QB in the last 5 years in that offense it would've been laughable.

Luck is special.
 
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