BlackGhost
Banned
What's the black Monday forecast looking like? I think Schiano stays .
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NFL 2013 Week 15 |OT| Winter Is Coming
- Thread starter Buckethead
- Start date
Trade you Hakeem Nicks for Nick Mangold.
Well, yesterday sucked. It was shades of early this season with the defense playing terrible and Chip making rookie mistakes. A bad gameplan and bad execution will kill you every time. Of course, it didn't help that Matt Cassel decided to have his one good game a year yesterday.
But Shady only getting 8 carries? Squib kicking every kick off? Wasted time outs, bad challenges, killer penalties. I lay all of that at Chip's feet.
The silver lining is Dallas' implosion means the Eagles can just chalk this one up as a learning experience and move on. They were going to lose eventually; you rarely see 7, 8, 9 game win streaks in the NFL any more. So they got their loss out of the way and now they can focus on winning the next two games and getting into the playoffs.
But Shady only getting 8 carries? Squib kicking every kick off? Wasted time outs, bad challenges, killer penalties. I lay all of that at Chip's feet.
The silver lining is Dallas' implosion means the Eagles can just chalk this one up as a learning experience and move on. They were going to lose eventually; you rarely see 7, 8, 9 game win streaks in the NFL any more. So they got their loss out of the way and now they can focus on winning the next two games and getting into the playoffs.
Futurevoid
Member
Are these decisions made in a vacuum based on current statistics or 10 years worth of production and two super bowl wins?
Eli didn't just forget how to play QB in the span of a season (he played his best season as a pro in 2011. Two seasons ago) and Coughlin didn't suddenly forget how to coach football. (to quote Reese who on the money there)
Listen, the issue with the offense start with Eli but don't stop there. We've (Giants fans) said it 1000 times and you only need to watch the games to understand. The interior of the offensive line is a complete mess. It's an unmitigated disaster that falls squarely on the shoulders of Jerry Reese and his front office. Will Beatty was signed to a 5 year contract at LT and has been a turnstile giving up 10 of the 36 sacks Eli has endured this season (the highest sack total of his career) and more pressure than anyone else on the line according to PFF. It says a lot when the rookie on the line is the best player in that group.
He's throwing to a checked out Hakeem Nicks that took off during OTA's and seemingly never bothered to show up again. Randle is feast or famine. He can make a big play one second and run the wrong route the next causing one of the interceptions that will get pegged on Eli. I won't mention Cruz because he's the one reliable target he's had all year. The drop-off from those three is a cliff. Jernigan finally got playing time yesterday after three seasons with the team. After him there is.....?
The running back situation? David Wilson, Andre Brown, Da'Rel Scott, Michael Cox, Brandon Jacobs and Peyton Hillis have all STARTED at running back this season. Two of the sacks Eli took against the Seahawks were credited to......Andre Brown. So even our best running back can't pass protect. Yay.
....and then there's Eli. In the absence of a running game, pass protection and reliable receivers you have a guy that wants to make a play so desperately he makes stupid fucking decisions with the football. That was Eli in 2010 when he had 25 interceptions. A good number of those were tipped passes but there were plenty that were on him for throwing a ball that shouldn't have been thrown. For not taking a sack when he should have, etc. You're seeing plenty of that play out right now in 2013.
Eli's always been a gunslinger type and will always be a QB that takes chances with the ball. It's what he is but when he's playing well, he's as good as the best in the league. There are real concerns about his accuracy and some of the throws he has made this season but you don't toss a 2 x Super Bowl MVP in the dumpster after one season considering the very real personnel issues all over the offensive side of the ball. Fix what's around him and then evaluate where you are. Even if he isn't your guy and a new QB is called for, you're going to need those pieces anyways and Peyton Manning is a lesson in how you can move on from a franchise QB if you need to.
Who cares?
The elite label is one the dumbest things in sports. I never gave a shit about it even when it was being played up in 2011.Alligatorjandro
Banned
I think he is elite but a lot of his success came when the Giants had that monster pass rush.
BaltimoreLarry
Member
You think that matters to me? We already own you guys, so you losing, no matter what excuses you want to throw out there, will further solidify that. I plan to talk shit merciliously because, well, I don't like Tom Brady, Belicheck, Kraft, Massachusetts, Connecticut, wherever you live, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island (Maine and Vermont, your cool). Not to mention that Pats-GAF is probably the most populous, and disliked, group here so it means plenty of action.
Honestly, it sounds like you all are making pre-excuses.
Shit with the way Mangold has played this year and his contract I'd be ok with that deal.
Throw in a 2nd or 3rd and it be great.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Own us? You only beat us 3 times. We beat you guys 7 time, 5 with Brady.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
I can't think of a very solid argument that says he isn't elite. I think Ben's elite too for what it's worth.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Who cares?
Okay, forget I said 'Elite'. Is Eli a consistently good quarterback? Yes he has two Super Bowls, but the Giants didn't really have great seasons both years and got hot at the right time.
I would qualify an "elite" qb as one who can carry a bad team and make them average to good. Rodgers and Brady are really the only two who measure up in the league today. I would say Manning, but come on, Tim Tebow won a playoff game with that same core.
This would make a badass wallpaper for a Panthers fan,
The Jets are serious business yo.
Didn't get a chance to type out my thoughts but yeah basically what you said.
I also get the feeling the whole team (unfortunately) started believing their own hype and thought they could just show up against Minnesota and walk away with a win. Fuck why is it always Minn that gives up so much trouble?
Chip called a terrible. Probably his worst all season. Squib kick every kickoff? I get that Ross returned 2 against us last week but that was in the snow. For the large part our coverage unit has been decent. So all of a sudden Patterson is so feared that we will gift the Vikings the ball at midfield every possession? DUMB DUMB DUMB
And then when you see the D doesn't have it all, why keep doing it? Why not pin them deep? 9 out 10 times he won't return one to the house. Instead we gave our D no shot. And boy o boy did the D not show up. It looked like the D we saw the first 4 games. No pass rush, couldn't stop the run before they picked up at least 3-4 yards, and Cassel looked like the Cassel we saw with the Patriots.
Then on offense only 8 carries for McCoy? DID REID COME BACK FOR THAT GAME? That was by far the dumbest thing to do. Even if you want to pace him, fucking put in Bryce Brown and run it down their throats. It amazes me how time after time teams just abandon the run.
Now I won't get on Chip's case besides this game since he actually believes in the running game unlike Reid, but this can't happen again if we hope to win the division. Cause guess what, if our shit D shows up again against the Bears with the way the Bears are clicking, we will need to keep pace. And as much as I like and buy into Foles, I do not want to see him throwing the ball 40+ times.
Speaking of Foles he was way off on a lot of throws too. His one truly bad game since the last Dallas game. He wasn't exactly great against the Lions but whatever that was in a blizzard, but this game he had time, had guys open, and just flat over threw 4-5 passes.
On a brighter note after the Eagles game I went out with the in laws for a dinner, only checked the Dallas score once when they were up big, and then came home to a huge surprise!
THANK YOU DALLAS! LOVE EAGLES FANS!
Futurevoid
Member
From 2007 on, yes. The offense has always been a constant for the Giants. Outside of the high pick rate in 2010, he threw for 4000 yards and threw for 31 TD's. 2008, 2009, 2011 and even mid-way through 2012, he and the offense have been able to consistently keep the team in games despite having a putrid defense in 2009, 2011 and 2012.
You can kind of chart when things have gone downhill though. The offensive line has been deteriorating since 2010 and the consistent ignoring of the line is now costing the team games. Hell, it's costing them being competitive! The Seahawks scored 23 points. It might as well have been 60. The game is won in the trenches and what used to be a strength is now a big time liability for us. The defensive line is starting to go the same route and needs bodies.
You're right in what you said before, you get pressure in his face and Eli's mechanics go to shit. He's good at moving the pocket but he isn't Ben or a Russell Wilson type. That off the back foot throwing shit he does, it's still there. After 10 years, it's not going away either. It just needs to be minimized. I thought Mike Sullivan did the best of job of helping Eli curb that shit. Sullivan may not be having a great time of it in Tampa Bay but he was a heck of a QB coach for us.
I don't know what label you want to assign him but obviously he is great but I don't think he is the top echelon QB like Brady or Manning senior.
Live in NYC so all day been hearing Giants talk.
My opinion is that even during their SB runs, once they got into the playoffs they played great but they weren't "built" to be great. Meaning they didn't have elite talent at any spot where you flat out fear them. Possibly the DEs during the first run. It all jelled once they squeaked into the playoffs (both times), but compare the Giants regular seasons over the past 5-6 seasons and its always that they are scratching and clawing their way in.
Eventually that catches up to you. I don't think Reese, Coughlin, or Eli (lol wut?) should be replaced, but at some point you have to realize you need to upgrade positions and not assume just because it worked 2 times amazingly enough, that you can always just get by.
Its what I used to argue about with Reid loyalists when they brought up the # of times he had made the playoffs. But when they were truly dominant? The stretch from 00-04. Meaning from the top down, offense, defense, special teams, and coaching they were a top 3 team in the LEAGUE. That is what you have to aim for as a GM. Your aim can't be "we will do just enough to get in".
Its up to Reese and these guys to step out of their comfort zone and make some major changes and upgrades.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
lol. There were games this season where the Pats barely squeeked by with a win. When they lose, Brady cries like a baby.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
Remember when you thought they could run with the niners? Lulz
Drafting hasn't been very good lately, and it's hurt them, along with ignoring the OL and LB's for so long. The likes of Ramses Barden, Travis Beckum, Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, and maybe throw in Jerrel Jernigan as 2nd and 3rd round guys who simply didn't/have not panned out. Flat out non factors. Adrien Robinson hasn't done squat and he was a 4th rounder, always injured. Jayron Hosley may be another but I think he can be a decent player if he just can stay healthy and earn a shot. He'll get his chance next year.
So many vets need canned, one being Corey Webster who is just stealing money at this point.
So many vets need canned, one being Corey Webster who is just stealing money at this point.
Nemesis121
Member
Geno has a better o-line Eli has maybe 2 secs to throws on average, some plays he might get 5secs, but usually he's under ton of pressure, only reason Eli hasn't been sacked as much as Tannehill he knows how to avoid a sack, it's called throwing INT...
Alligatorjandro
Banned
no he doesnt
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Haha. Jets OL has been fucking terrible this year.
Geno has had literally no help from any of his teammates, easily the worst group of receivers in the league, but hes also looked like horrendous shit.
Time to move on from everything. Rex really should go this offseason.
Leslie Frazier seems to be the one guaranteed goner. Mike Munchak I wouldn't be surprised to see as well. And if Jason Garrett and/or Jim Schwartz doesn't make the playoffs, then they should go as well.
As for Schiano...I don't really know at this point. If he stays, it will be because he's the guy who drafted Mike Glennon and they might be willing to give that combination another year to work, seeing as how Glennon has generally played well and won some games lately for us. And the team does play hard. The one truly damning thing about this team and what could be his undoing is penalties. They lead the league in penalties, penalty yardage, and personal fouls. When you're a hardass who preaches discipline, that isn't a very good reflection of the job you've done.
Edit; Shit, how did I forget Shanahan? He gone.
Himynameischris
Member
You're right, he cries more like a little girl
Futurevoid
Member
Dump or keep Rolle?
Tuck?
It was much easier to say yes to both early on but now?
Tuck is playing his ass off but even then I don't see him returning unless he's taking some small money deal. No way he earns any type of major money extension. Part of me wants to see him retire a Giant. He's quintessential Giant to me and I've no want to see him in another uniform.
Rolle, I can't see dumping. He needs a pay cut or some type of adjustment but dude has been amazing this season. We've dumped on him in the past but he's flat out been the best player on the field more often than not on the defensive side of the ball. I don't know if I want to leave the safety position to Will "I'm only one joint away from a suspension" Hill and Stevie Brown coming off of an ACL tear.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Tom can do whatever he wants. Especially when he's owned the Dolphins as of late.
Himynameischris
Member
Yeah but so has every other team in the past decade, hardly an accomplishment.
Dump or keep Rolle?
Tuck?
It was much easier to say yes to both early on but now?
Tuck is playing his ass off but even then I don't see him returning unless he's taking some small money deal. No way he earns any type of major money extension. Part of me wants to see him retire a Giant. He's quintessential Giant to me and I've no want to see him in another uniform.
Rolle, I can't see dumping. He needs a pay cut or some type of adjustment but dude has been amazing this season. We've dumped on him in the past but he's flat out been the best player on the field more often than not on the defensive side of the ball. I don't know if I want to leave the safety position to Will "I'm only one joint away from a suspension" Hill and Stevie Brown coming off of an ACL tear.
Keep both. I was incredibly down on Tuck, but he would be comeback Giant of the year if it wasn't for Thomas. Rolle provides the fire that the defense has and the offense doesn't have.
The best Giants team in this run was the 2008 team pre Plax injury. Reese is really bad at holding lineman past their primes for the Giants (O'Hara/Snee/Diehl) with the exception of my favorite lineman (Seubert). I really hold him accountable more than Coughlin for this unmitigated disaster (and I have to give credit to guys like Fewell and Tuck who I was down on).
Pretty much agree with everything you wrote except for the Foles part. Yeah, he missed a few throws, but he's only human. Every QB misses a few. He threw for over 400 yards and 3 TDs. 9 times out of 10 if your QB does that you are going to win.
Whatever. This Minn. game was a classic let-down game. Coming off of an emotional win, on the road, against a weak opponent missing their best player. It looks like they lost their edge a little bit. I guarantee you that won't be the case if we meet the Niners in the playoffs.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Dolphins used to play the Pats tough. Lke when they beat them in 04 (when Brady threw that pass from being on his ass) and when they shut them out in 06 I think.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
The Texans are 8-0 against the Dolphins and look where that's got them!
Himynameischris
Member
Those were some of our better teams from the last decade actually, damn I can't believe we've been crap for so long.
Hmmm, just looking through the standings...
Shanny for sure. Garrett will be the latest fall guy for Jerrah. Schiano is a maybe. Fraizer is a maybe. Doubtful Cleveland fires Chud after 1 season. Coughlin retires maybe? Munchak is a maybe. Would the Falcons really fire Mike Smith for one abysmal year?
I think Rivera has saved his job for sure, and depending on what comes out of Martingate Philbin may save his if he makes the playoffs.
Then there's the whole Chip Kelly to Texas rumor that's flying around. Any truth to that?
Futurevoid
Member
My thought as well.
Resign Beason long term, too. Keep Jacquain William. Cut the rest of these shitball linebackers
BlackGhost
Banned
.
Tragicomedy
Member
Dude has helped his team win two Superbowls. That's two more than my team has won during my lifetime.
In other words: sure.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Seeing a movie late tonight, will miss the game.
Go Lions!
Go Lions!
Himynameischris
Member
I'm not familiar with the other models but after a quick google search for her name I'll agree
No.
Don't get me wrong, they could all buy me multiple diner chains, but I'd put Candice, Lily, Alessandra, Karlie, and Adriana ahead of her.
BaltimoreLarry
Member
That's cute how you think that.
Don't quote stats from before you watched football. We've won those three, in the last 5 times we play, including 2 on the road, and lets be honest, if you lose to Flacco on the road, you should count it two times. Also, in those two 2 losses, you beat us by 3 points both times. The first time, you won in OT. The second time, we won, but Lee Evans/Cundiff happened. So basically, the last time the Pats really "handled" Baltimore was 2009 , which was 5 years ago. Also, don't forget, we played in 09, you won by 6 against Rookie Flacco. You also won in 2007, the year you went "undefeated", by three points against KYLE BOLLER, who if you remember, nearly won the game when he outperformed Tom Brady, and completed a Hail Mary to the 2 yard line to end the game.
If you come that close to losing to Kyle Boller, you suck.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
So you're telling me this QB has made the playoffs 5 out of 10 years in the league? And out of those 5 times won the super bowl twice!?
COUNT ME IN BRO
Stop blaming video games, bionic
Edit: You didn't expect me to know how to post a link right?
I've only been here for 8 years.
Edit Edit: Ha, took me only 3 more attempts!
Edit: You didn't expect me to know how to post a link right?
I've only been here for 8 years.
Edit Edit: Ha, took me only 3 more attempts!
Himynameischris
Member
BaltimoreLarry
Member
I understand. It was hard to root for Brady to score on that last drive yesterday. I had to bathe in vinegar afterwards; I've never felt more dirty.
Miranda is out
She is?
Still here on the site.
Oh well. Like I said, not her biggest fan anyway.
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