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NFL 2013 Week 15 |OT| Winter Is Coming

B

BlackGhost

Banned
Mech one step closer to Derek Carr future.
NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports Redskins coaches "all think" they're getting fired.
The purge is coming, but owner Daniel Snyder has decided to wait out troublemaking head coach Mike Shanahan. Shanny's name should be one of the first we learn on Black Monday.
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M

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
Back from Vacation, haven't posted in a while. Pats losing Gronk is a tough one... really interested to see how he'll even recover from that. Can he actually finish antibiotics this time? How long until he's comfortable to take the field? I don't see him playing at all next year. Either way, it's anybodies game in the AFC for the superbowl, seriously any one of these teams can make it. I still got the broncs at the top, followed by the bengals then pats, but the seperation is so minor. It's the NFCs year for sure.
 
D

Dragon

Banned
Elfforkusu said:
Why not? I guess the only ambiguity I see with :dragon is whether it means being a snitch or being a bitch.
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Damn if I was Godslay I'd be martyring myself out of this thread.

j2FuzYn.gif


images
 
E

effzee

Member
What if Cousins plays so well these next three games that Snyder says well shit lets keep this guy. Lets also keep Shanny and fam.

RG3 up for trade. All the high prospects staying back in school.

Houston trades their first round pick for RG3.
 
M

MechDX

Member
effzee said:
What if Cousins plays so well these next three games that Snyder says well shit lets keep this guy. Lets also keep Shanny and fam.

RG3 up for trade. All the high prospects staying back in school.

Houston trades their first round pick for RG3.
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Not gonna happen. You people who keep making theseweird scenarios don't know McNair very well
 
S

squicken

Member
Anyone kind of get a 2011 Colts vibe from the Packers? Seriously not a troll, but that team had some injuries and lost Peyton, and it became really clear that the genius GM wasn't as good as his press clippings

Wasn't like that Colts team had zero talent. Wayne, Mathis and Freeney were all there though they had some injuries. But the rank and file were just terrible. A lot of 4th-7th round picks were just not working out
 
J

jmdajr

Member
"Unfortunately, I didn’t get low enough As soon as I realized what was happening, I definitely stopped. It’s unfortunate it looks that way and came out that way. . . . I thought I was going to be able to get under there and I wasn’t able to and I wasn’t able to get a hand on the football.”

riiiiiiight
 
C

Crisco

Banned
squicken said:
Anyone kind of get a 2011 Colts vibe from the Packers? Seriously not a troll, but that team had some injuries and lost Peyton, and it became really clear that the genius GM wasn't as good as his press clippings

Wasn't like that Colts team had zero talent. Wayne, Mathis and Freeney were all there though they had some injuries. But the rank and file were just terrible. A lot of 4th-7th round picks were just not working out
Click to expand...

That's a little unfair considering the Packers had a lot of injuries besides Rodgers, and after all are only a half game back in the division. The defense definitely needs an infusion of talent though, especially the secondary and the interior of the line.
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
squicken said:
Anyone kind of get a 2011 Colts vibe from the Packers? Seriously not a troll, but that team had some injuries and lost Peyton, and it became really clear that the genius GM wasn't as good as his press clippings

Wasn't like that Colts team had zero talent. Wayne, Mathis and Freeney were all there though they had some injuries. But the rank and file were just terrible. A lot of 4th-7th round picks were just not working out
Click to expand...

That's definitely the vibe I've had since he got injured...

I also think we all had suspicions that this was the case even before he was injured. As a whole, Green Bay has just not been a very good team. The offensive line is still garbage and the defense was good for one season under Capers.
 
S

squicken

Member
Crisco said:
That's a little unfair considering the Packers had a lot of injuries besides Rodgers, and after all are only a half game back in the division. The defense definitely needs an infusion of talent though, especially the secondary and the interior of the line.
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Rodgers has 5 of their 6 wins, but he also lost to the only two good teams they played. Their schedule has been tougher w/o him. So there are mitigating factors, but I have been really surprised at how shaky they are. The Rams have a historically bad pass defense and even they managed to win a couple of games. GB's defense is just so bad
 
D

Draconian

Member
squicken said:
Rodgers has 5 of their 6 wins, but he also lost to the only two good teams they played. Their schedule has been tougher w/o him. So there are mitigating factors, but I have been really surprised at how shaky they are. The Rams have a historically bad pass defense and even they managed to win a couple of games. GB's defense is just so bad
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The defensive line hasn't been good and the secondary is even worse. I'd blame it all on the secondary, but that doesn't explain us getting shredded by Toby Gerhart in OT against the Vikings when we knew they were going to do nothing but run the ball. AJ Hawk played good for a few weeks earlier in the year and then hasn't really done anything big since. The only person reliable on this defense is Clay and he can't do everything.
 
G

Greg

Member
squicken said:
Anyone kind of get a 2011 Colts vibe from the Packers? Seriously not a troll, but that team had some injuries and lost Peyton, and it became really clear that the genius GM wasn't as good as his press clippings

Wasn't like that Colts team had zero talent. Wayne, Mathis and Freeney were all there though they had some injuries. But the rank and file were just terrible. A lot of 4th-7th round picks were just not working out
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next man up only works for so long, and it's hard to really judge when there's continuity issues at multiple positions

obviously Rodgers covers up a lot of the issues (big play threat, buying time, playing with the lead, etc.), but I don't know what the split is on the blame between personnel and coaching at this point

maybe we won't know at all unless Rodgers comes back this season and we see how the team reacts
 
F

Fantomex

Member
BlackGhost said:
Justice is served
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That dude is straight clownshoes. I think he is trying to be Harrison, Clark, and Hines Ward all rolled up into one. But he doesn't even blend in or wait until the ref is not looking. He got off lightly if you ask me.

My boy Starks ain't a piñata Wallace. Dang son.

starks.gif
 
S

squicken

Member
Greg said:
next man up only works for so long,
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That cliche is one of the worst in sports. Hate when fans parrot it, as if injuries are all equal or don't matter. I think each team has a breaking point, and I think the Packers offense was close to breaking when Nelson was the only WR left.

I know McGinn noted in the offseason that the Packers consistently had a higher injury rate than the rest of the league, and couldn't figure out the issue.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
I think it's a real indictment for TT that despite going defense on an entire draft Packers D is no better. They are absolutely awful. Granted guys take time to develop but are these guys on D even seeing the field?

Still, they're not as bad as the Colts. Colts had NO talent come out of a ton of drafts. It was clear even when Peyton was there that they were a shit squad, and then the 2-14 season confirmed it.
 
F

Farooq

Banned
squicken said:
In retrospect, I wonder about that scheme, or if it just wasn't having Rice, Barber, Sapp, Lynch and Brooks
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At least for Sapp, I think scheme really helped him be dominant. If you take a look at the under front.

08idp_figure_1.gif


You can see how the shifted front essentially allows the under tackle (or 3 technique) to be isolated against a guard. I mean, if we can remember when Sapp went to Oakland, he simply was not as dominant because he was in a different alignment. With the Raiders he was a 5 technique and had two gap responsibility. While in Tampa, he had one gap to take care of. He could explode off the snap, and take care of his gap responsibility on the way towards the quarterback. Monte and Dungy put Sapp in a better position to succeed.

Edit: In Oakland I think Sapp would line straight up on a tackle, so he would be a 4 technique with two gap responsibility. But, I think my initial point still stands.
 
G

Greg

Member
squicken said:
That cliche is one of the worst in sports. Hate when fans parrot it, as if injuries are all equal or don't matter. I think each team has a breaking point, and I think the Packers offense was close to breaking when Nelson was the only WR left.

I know McGinn noted in the offseason that the Packers consistently had a higher injury rate than the rest of the league, and couldn't figure out the issue.
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next man up doesn't imply everyone is equal though - a roster isn't the exact number of starters, so it just means that an injury is no excuse to quit or feel sorry for yourself because you're given the opportunity to have depth

and nothing indicates their offense was "close to breaking" when you have someone like Boykin get a 100 yard game

DeaconKnowledge said:
I think it's a real indictment for TT that despite going defense on an entire draft Packers D is no better. They are absolutely awful. Granted guys take time to develop but are these guys on D even seeing the field?
Click to expand...
their secondary was banged up a bit in addition to being not great to begin with, but I thought the D looked promising early on (outside of the season opener) - I think most here were in agreement

I really don't know what happened to them when Rodgers went down though... if that promise early on was just a fluke, or if they just lost their edge as a team without Rodgers being there
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Greg said:
their secondary was banged up a bit in addition to being not great to begin with, but I thought the D looked promising early on (outside of the season opener) - I think most here were in agreement

I really don't know what happened to them when Rodgers went down though... if that promise early on was just a fluke, or if they just lost their edge as a team without Rodgers being there
Click to expand...


I was specifically talking about the pass rush - it is non existent and the Pack has drafted 2 pass rushers high - Perry and Jones. A soft push is fine when you're sitting on leads but Rodgers being gone exposes the defense further.

Everything the Packers are is gone when Rodgers is out - The defense hasn't been good for years, and no other QB on the team can make the throws Rodgers can. Packers were dangerous due to that quick strike ability - what else do they have?

It was clear the team was desperate when they got Flynn back - I hope they didn't seriously think that Lions game that got him paid was anything but a fluke. To be fair though, the Seahawks and Raiders bought it whole hog.
 
G

Greg

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
I was specifically talking about the pass rush - it is non existent and the Pack has drafted 2 pass rushers high - Perry and Jones. A soft push is fine when you're sitting on leads but Rodgers being gone exposes the defense further.
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that's what I was talking about with the D showing promise though - the front was actually looking good, and they were getting enough pressure to cover up some of the secondary issues

I have no clue what happened

DeaconKnowledge said:
Everything the Packers are is gone when Rodgers is out - The defense hasn't been good for years, and no other QB on the team can make the throws Rodgers can. Packers were dangerous due to that quick strike ability - what else do they have?
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I agree

DeaconKnowledge said:
It was clear the team was desperate when they got Flynn back - I hope they didn't seriously think that Lions game that got him paid was anything but a fluke. To be fair thought, the Seahawks and Raiders bought it whole hog.
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I think they knew what he was as a player, but the convenience of him knowing the system was probably enough
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
squicken said:
Anyone kind of get a 2011 Colts vibe from the Packers? Seriously not a troll, but that team had some injuries and lost Peyton, and it became really clear that the genius GM wasn't as good as his press clippings

Wasn't like that Colts team had zero talent. Wayne, Mathis and Freeney were all there though they had some injuries. But the rank and file were just terrible. A lot of 4th-7th round picks were just not working out
Click to expand...
They feel similar to that Colts team in that they saw their star QB go down, played hard for a couple games, and then quit. Though they did bring it for the 2nd half last week, so... woohoo?

DeaconKnowledge said:
I think it's a real indictment for TT that despite going defense on an entire draft Packers D is no better. They are absolutely awful. Granted guys take time to develop but are these guys on D even seeing the field?

Still, they're not as bad as the Colts. Colts had NO talent come out of a ton of drafts. It was clear even when Peyton was there that they were a shit squad, and then the 2-14 season confirmed it.
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As much as I'd like to give TT shit for the last few drafts, there's an injury issue. But there's one other thing that bothers me. I'll stop at the 5th round.

2011
1) Derek Sherrod (OT) -- chronically injured, possible bust anyway
2) Randall Cobb (WR) -- is awesome. And broke his leg this year. Actually, shouldn't he be getting healthy soon? Maybe in the crossfire he re-broke it or something. I misremembered him as being 32, but he was bottom of the 2nd
3) Alex Green (RB) -- bust.
4) Davon House (CB) -- can't cover for shit
5) D.J. Williams (TE) -- cut for inability to catch the ball

2012
1) Nick Perry (OLB) -- looks good, actually. Returned against Detroit after missing 6 games. He only played 6 games last year, so he's already set a personal best!
2) Jerel Worthy (DE) -- has played 1 game this year! Better than 0.
2) Casey Hayward (CB) -- pictured left. Played 3 games this year! For some definition of "played" since he was scared of reinjuring his hamstring (and of contact). He reinjured his hamstring.
4) Mike Daniels (DE) -- looks good. Been the most consistent D-lineman.
4) Jerron McMillian (S) -- shit. No excusing this one.
5) Terrell Manning (LB) -- also awful.

2013
1) Datone Jones (DE) -- has been pretty ok.
2) Eddie Lacy (RB) -- rollout, biiiiiiitch!!
4) David Bakhtiari (OT) -- our starting left tackle! ... :(
4) J.C. Tretter (OG) -- he's a lineman
4) Jonathan Franklin (RB) -- looked good against cincy until he GAVE THEM THE GAME. WAY TO GO DIPSHIT
5) Micah Hyde (CB) -- 5th round steal.

At some point the difference makers have to stay healthy to make a difference. so the injury thing is big. Our defense going to shit corresponds with our front 6/7 going to shit. Now that Clay is getting healthy and Perry is back, Johnny Jolly is back, and (fingers crossed) Worthy is on the active roster... who knows.

The one frustrating thing about TT is that he neglects positions. He's spent almost nothing with the secondary in recent drafts. It's basically... Hayward. Even coming off of 2009 (I don't have 2010 here, that was Matthews and Raji), with a horrendously bad secondary, he totally lucked into Sam Shields as a UDFA CB. The backup plan was Jarrett Bush, who shouldn't be playing CB for anyone (and saved the game last week)

Bear in mind that Al Harris (CB) blew out his knee in 2009 and (eventually) retired, Woodson (CB) got old and was cut last year, and Nick Collins (S) screwed up his neck in early 2011 and had to retire. So there's 2 pro bowlers and another starter going out the door. Tramon and Shields were picked out of the garbage bin, and they got us by for a while... but by and large, the lack of attention to the secondary shows. They're bad, and based on where the draft picks were spent they should be bad.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
I was specifically talking about the pass rush - it is non existent and the Pack has drafted 2 pass rushers high - Perry and Jones. A soft push is fine when you're sitting on leads but Rodgers being gone exposes the defense further.

Everything the Packers are is gone when Rodgers is out - The defense hasn't been good for years, and no other QB on the team can make the throws Rodgers can. Packers were dangerous due to that quick strike ability - what else do they have?

It was clear the team was desperate when they got Flynn back - I hope they didn't seriously think that Lions game that got him paid was anything but a fluke. To be fair though, the Seahawks and Raiders bought it whole hog.
Click to expand...
re: pass rush, they were shaping up really well earlier this year. Injuries have cut them down to size. Not sure if they'll rebound or not, they showed flashes in the 2nd half last week. But that's probably Atlanta being terrible. More worrying thing is how teams run all over them since Rodgers went down. I have no explanation for that except effort.

re: Flynn. He's better than what we had. Still not very good, but his willingness to take a hit has made him passable. The offensive line isn't helping him out much.
 
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