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NFL 2013 Week 7 |OT| - The Green Green Grass of Home

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E

eznark

Banned
Colasante said:
That's not entirely relevant, is it? The Buccaneers have a good pass defense and Foles carved it up. It was an impressive performance, regardless of whether the Bucs were 5-0 or 0-5.
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The record? No not at all. But after 6 weeks it is at least somewhat indicative of the quality of opponent. Tampa may have an alright secondary, but they got next to no pressure on Foles. There isn't a quarterback in the league who won't find some success if you give him McCoy, Jackson and unlimited time in the pocket.

Now, I am speaking from ignorance as I unfortunately missed the games on Sunday and have not had a chance to go back and watch that one. He may have been incredible. But I'll wait to put him in the same discussion as Luck and Wilson until he at least beats a team who has shown the ability to beat other NFL teams.

Know who was awesome against shitty teams? Josh Freeman.
 
C

Colasante

Member
Godslay said:
Bottom line, all of those teams either have an elite QB or a QB that played elite. You aren't winning the Superbowl with a game manager. All of those teams listed had a QB that would put you in a grave if you let them. Flacco might not be elite all the time, but he put on a goddamn great performance last year in the playoffs.
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Right, but Kurt Warner and Aaron Rodgers both played excellent football in the 2009 playoffs and still didn't make it to the Super Bowl. Brady threw for 6 touchdowns against the Broncos in 2011 and didn't win the Super Bowl. Kaepernick broke the record for QB rushing yards against the Packers and still didn't win the Super Bowl. QBs are obviously important, and obviously the most important, but when the playoffs start, almost every team has an elite QB (last year being a decided exception to that rule) and every other part of the team has to step up. Like Irsay said, there were years where 70% of the Colts' cap was dedicated to the offense. That just isn't a sound strategy to win the Super Bowl.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
I'm pretty sure Irsay is talking about how they spend a ton of their assets trying to surround Manning with skill players instead of rounding out the rest of the team and it resulted in offensive regular season stats and not enough post season success.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
eznark said:
The record? No not at all. But after 6 weeks it is at least somewhat indicative of the quality of opponent. Tampa may have an alright secondary, but they got next to no pressure on Foles. There isn't a quarterback in the league who won't find some success if you give him McCoy, Jackson and unlimited time in the pocket.

Now, I am speaking from ignorance as I unfortunately missed the games on Sunday and have not had a chance to go back and watch that one. He may have been incredible. But I'll wait to put him in the same discussion as Luck and Wilson until he at least beats a team who has shown the ability to beat other NFL teams.

Know who was awesome against shitty teams? Josh Freeman.
Click to expand...

The Bucs were getting a ton of pressure by blitzing early in the game but the Eagles had a drive were they called 4 straight screens and went right down the field. The Bucs pass rush wasnt the same after that.
 
S

Striker

Member
Colasante said:
Likewise with the Giants, they were a balanced team in both 2007 and 2011. If the defensive line didn't wreck Brady all game, there's no way Eli's in a position to make those insane throws at the end. And I'd argue that Steve Weatherford was the most important player in that 2011 game.
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Giants tried to be balanced, but yeah, 32nd in rushing to end the season. That season was won by the team's pass game. Of course, Stevie Brown and JPP were also great. Still, look back at a pivotal game that year. Primetime game vs. Dallas. Defense is shredded all game, Giants offense has to match it every step. Romo ends up missing an open Miles Austin and Giants score to take the lead. Cowboys still get into field goal range with little time left to tie it up, and obviously the FG gets blocked.

Defense was absolute shit for most of the season, as was the ground game. Justin Tuck decided to turn 14 games of mediocrity and go into beast mode for six games.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
The Frankman said:
AND NFL Network Top 10 Players You Love To Hate

NUMBER ONE


... Brett Favre

EDIT: LOL Joe Benigno is KILLING this guy.
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Who hates Brett Favre?

Sure, the "will he-won't he" got a little annoying but that was as much of a fault of ESPN as it was Favre's.

I thought at the end, he was just the lovable, slightly senile guy still slingin it all over the field like he was 25.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Eli has never won a playoff game were the Giants gave up more than 20 points. I'm pretty sure their D was pretty much dominate to very good on those runs unless you believe 20 or less points in 8 playoff games during those SB runs isn't very good.
 
G

Godslay

Banned
Colasante said:
Right, but Kurt Warner and Aaron Rodgers both played excellent football in the 2009 playoffs and still didn't make it to the Super Bowl. Brady threw for 6 touchdowns against the Broncos in 2011 and didn't win the Super Bowl. Kaepernick broke the record for QB rushing yards against the Packers and still didn't win the Super Bowl. QBs are obviously important, and obviously the most important, but when the playoffs start, almost every team has an elite QB (last year being a decided exception to that rule) and every other part of the team has to step up. Like Irsay said, there were years where 70% of the Colts' cap was dedicated to the offense. That just isn't a sound strategy to win the Super Bowl.
Click to expand...

Well it's just one piece of the pie I agree, but it's the biggest piece. You rarely get to the playoffs without one, and even more rarely win the Superbowl without one (or at least one that plays like one). History tells us that elite guys win the Superbowl, even more so in recent times. It does require a defense that can make plays, but I don't think it makes sense to strive for a perfectly balanced team. Have to hang points, and be able to get a stop or slow the other team down to some degree. If you can't score, someone is going to beat you at some point.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Colasante said:
Right, but Kurt Warner and Aaron Rodgers both played excellent football in the 2009 playoffs and still didn't make it to the Super Bowl. Brady threw for 6 touchdowns against the Broncos in 2011 and didn't win the Super Bowl. Kaepernick broke the record for QB rushing yards against the Packers and still didn't win the Super Bowl. QBs are obviously important, and obviously the most important, but when the playoffs start, almost every team has an elite QB (last year being a decided exception to that rule) and every other part of the team has to step up. Like Irsay said, there were years where 70% of the Colts' cap was dedicated to the offense. That just isn't a sound strategy to win the Super Bowl.
Click to expand...

Tom Penny said:
I'm pretty sure Irsay is talking about how they spend a ton of their assets trying to surround Manning with skill players instead of rounding out the rest of the team and it resulted in offensive regular season stats and not enough post season success.
Click to expand...
that's on Polian and himself then. Not Manning. Of course you need to be well rounded team for the most part, or be elite in more than one area. IE giants method elite QB play in the playoffs and elite pass rush. But his comments initially said i dont care about stats i want superbowl wins, it was a shot directly across Manning's bow, implying that Peyton only cared or only got stats, not Peytons fault some of those playoff loses. Now he's back peddling so fast. I still contend he didnt see anything he just got lucky to get Luck.
 
S

Striker

Member
Tom Penny said:
Eli has never won a playoff game were the Giants gave up more than 20 points. I'm pretty sure their D was pretty much dominate to very good on those runs unless you believe 20 or less points in 8 playoff games during those SB runs isn't very good.
Click to expand...
I put it more on the QB's they face:

2007: Garcia, Romo, Favre
2011: Ryan, Rodgers, Smith

Out of those, how many were good playoff QB's at the time? Rodgers I can see but the rest, ehh. Falcons had chances in their game but Mike Smith decided to run a QB sneak instead of use a 250 RB.

And Tammy's postseason numbers since 2007 hasn't been very good, either, and that is including the 6-1 TD/INT game he had vs. the Tebow's.
 
S

squicken

Member
Tom Penny said:
Eli has never won a playoff game were the Giants gave up more than 20 points. I'm pretty sure their D was pretty much dominate to very good on those runs unless you believe 20 or less points in 8 playoff games during those SB runs isn't very good.
Click to expand...

I guess Polian said on TV that the problem with Irsay's argument is that everything changes once they have to pay Luck $20m/yr. Makes it harder to be well rounded
 
S

Spinluck

Member
carfo said:
Payton looks way better but damn look at his receivers. Geno Smith would have stats comparable to Payton...ok maybe not but if you gave Payton Brady's receivers, he isn't 6 and 0
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Peyton has been where Brady was in 2010, after losing the Superbowl.

Except he had a far worse O-line and defense. We went 10-6 that year playing much better teams than you guys have faced. Most of the teams are shit this year.

I don't even think this is the best offense he's been on, he's just a far better player than he was in 2004-2005.
 
C

Colasante

Member
captive said:
that's on Polian and himself then. Not Manning. Of course you need to be well rounded team for the most part, or be elite in more than one area. IE giants method elite QB play in the playoffs and elite pass rush. But his comments initially said i dont care about stats i want superbowl wins, it was a shot directly across Manning's bow, implying that Peyton only cared or only got stats, not Peytons fault some of those playoff loses. Now he's back peddling so fast. I still contend he didnt see anything he just got lucky to get Luck.
Click to expand...

Here's what he said:

"We really just proved how now special teams and defense are winning games along with a great franchise quarterback. That's a different type of team, but that's the vision I had going into this era.

You make the playoffs 11 times, and you're out in the first round seven out of 11 times. You love to have the Star Wars numbers from Peyton and Marvin (Harrison) and Reggie (Wayne). Mostly, you love this.

Because it's about world championships. We got one in our era. The Steelers got two, Baltimore got two, New England got three. ... It really came down to inconsistent special teams and inconsistent defensive play, particularly against the run. The vision when I brought in (GM) Ryan Grigson and Chuck Pagano was to have a really well rounded team that when it gets into the playoffs and it's 20 degrees and snowing, that we're not just depending on the passing game."
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I see ZERO reason to take that as a shot at Manning.
 
S

Spinluck

Member
Milchjon said:
This is really cool:

Andrew Luck's childhood in Europe

He even talks in German!

Trashy 90s Euro culture too! Luck in a German soccer jersey! Mullets!

Man, what a gem..
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That's my QB!! For all those who were wondering, this is why Luck likes flip phones and is featured in FIFA commercials!!

EDIT: Irsay is a fucking clown. I'm pretty sure none of his players in Indy would approve of his bullshit. I usually don't mind shit talk, but there is a very good chance we won't back it up. I expect us to play better than we did last week since we are cursed against the Chargers. But while I feel we can win this game, I feel that we should do it quietly.
 
S

Starphoenix

Member
Sexy Rexy in Houston?!

Texans receive:
» Rex Grossman, quarterback

Redskins receive:
» Mid-round draft pick

Why it would make sense: I still have faith in Grossman, who did take a team to the Super Bowl. I also trust Mike Shanahan; he's smart, and if he didn't think he could potentially win with Grossman as his quarterback, he wouldn't have Grossman on his roster. That said, Washington seems to be set at the position. Even if Robert Griffin III falters long-term, top-notch backup Kirk Cousins can be the future there. And the Redskins would conceivably welcome a chance to accumulate more draft picks in exchange for Grossman.

So which team out there could use the services of a veteran like Grossman? How about the Houston Texans, the team with which he spent a forgettable season in 2009? Veteran Matt Schaub obviously has had his issues, and I don't think second-stringer T.J. Yates is that good. Grossman could play well enough to keep things from completely falling apart.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...o-panthers-among-trades-that-would-make-sense
 
E

exarkun

Member
Rex Grossman in 2006 or whatever that year was with the Bears had the most unqiue qb season I had ever seen. One week he looked like the future of the bears, and the next looked like he should be on the practice squad. I can't remember the last time a qb was soooo up and down.

Thus, hes perf for the Texans.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Texans tweet about Kubiaks presser with link as usual

Tania Gangulia ESPN blogger does a rush of tweets with Kubiak comments

Tweet from Texans disappears form timeline

Camera is on, see reporters waiting, someone says something and they all walk out

Camera still rolling but no one is there...

Tha fuck?
 
E

effzee

Member
eznark said:
The record? No not at all. But after 6 weeks it is at least somewhat indicative of the quality of opponent. Tampa may have an alright secondary, but they got next to no pressure on Foles. There isn't a quarterback in the league who won't find some success if you give him McCoy, Jackson and unlimited time in the pocket.

Now, I am speaking from ignorance as I unfortunately missed the games on Sunday and have not had a chance to go back and watch that one. He may have been incredible. But I'll wait to put him in the same discussion as Luck and Wilson until he at least beats a team who has shown the ability to beat other NFL teams.

Know who was awesome against shitty teams? Josh Freeman.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I am cautiously optimistic. But more than anything I'll trust Chip with whoever he goes with.

Maybe going with Vick first helped Foles with more time to learn and prepare. He is only in his 2nd year and I don't have unrealistic expectation where I anticipate every rookie QB to light it up right away. If Foles can be our guy, the franchise QB, it will save us so much time and money.

Going forward this season, Vick or Foles, they will only go as far as this D will allow.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
Peyton inherited a team that even a player as shitty as Tebow couldn't keep out of the playoffs. A player so bad, he had 8(!!) more attempts in his career after he left Denver and couldn't earn Mark Sanchez' spot.
 
C

Colasante

Member
yankeehater said:
I dont even see how anyone can argue it anymore. 3 out 0f 4 years he wins, the league says no more taping and suddenly no more SBs.
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Yes indeed, if only we'd had the cameras we would've seen the Giants practicing Tyree's helmet catch and could've gone undefeated. We would've been able to record Talib pulling a hamstring against the Ravens last year too, wouldn't that have been helpful? And of course, our cameras would have told us that Pat Chung would botch a fake punt in 2010 too. That pesky Mangini ruined all of our fun!
 
H

Hunter S.

Member
Milchjon said:
Peyton inherited a team that even a player as shitty as Tebow couldn't keep out of the playoffs. A player so bad, he had 8(!!) more attempts in his career after he left Denver and couldn't earn Mark Sanchez' spot.
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Yo Brah, it is often forgotten that the 8-8 Broncos made the playoffs because the Chargers beat the Raiders in the Raiders final regular season game. It was a joke the 2011 Broncos even made the playoffs at all. Especially after the 1-4 start.

That is why Bronco fans prefer the Chargers to the Chefs, and Raiders.

Edit: @ SPindasher Cool, I do not read even close to every post.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
Colasante said:
Yes indeed, if only we'd had the cameras we would've seen the Giants practicing Tyree's helmet catch and could've gone undefeated. We would've been able to record Talib pulling a hamstring against the Ravens last year too, wouldn't that have been helpful? And of course, our cameras would have told us that Pat Chung would botch a fake punt in 2010 too. That pesky Mangini ruined all of our fun!
Click to expand...

Maybe if they had the cameras still they could have seen what the Giants were planning to do on offense and defense leading up to the SB and had some counter for it, rather then have their DL push Brady all over the field and hold the greatest offense ever to just 2 TDs.
 
C

Colasante

Member
yankeehater said:
Maybe if they had the cameras still they could have seen what the Giants were planning to do on offense and defense leading up to the SB and had some counter for it, rather then have their DL push Brady all over the field and hold the greatest offense ever to just 2 TDs.
Click to expand...

There's no point in rehashing this argument, but surely you acknowledge that the Patriots were a Tyree helmet catch away from winning the Super Bowl, yes? They had gotten to the point where they were one play away from winning the Super Bowl after SpyGate had been discovered, and yet you claim they can't win a Super Bowl without cameras? There has to be a point in this argument where logic takes over. Say what you will about 2000-2007, if you want to discredit those Super Bowls I entirely understand your perspective as much as I may disagree, but to act like because Asante Samuel and Rodney Harrison couldn't make that one play to determine the outcome of the game the entire organization is a failure since 2007 is just myopic and disingenuous.
 
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