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NFL 2013 Week 8 |OT| - Hail To The Chiefs

G

greatestjediever

Member
Trey said:
I think if you're not getting the proper protection, then hoping the line gets a push is wishful thinking. The gains of exploiting the cover 2 through the air is much more lucrative than on the ground, and in the context of the Broncos' situation, they had no choice of using the run game to get something going.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is true. While the Colts used to get burned by RBs up the middle (when they used to play Cover 2/3) they also got burned by opposing TEs in the space between the MLB and the safeties.

In last weeks game, it seemed like the Colts usually had Angerer watching for the run play or the checkdown pass. I'd have to rewatch the game, but I wonder if the same gaps were available through the game (ie. something Orange Julius couldve exploited)
 
E

effzee

Member
squicken said:
I appreciate the good answers from you Philly fans. I didn't know the full background of his responsibilities in Philly. I had understood it be a bit of a power struggle with Roseman, Reid and Banner which Roseman ultimately won

As far as maxing out KC's offense, I'm not sure he can do much more with Alex and such a slow/unskilled WR corps. It's also probably not smart to even try as long as the defense is that good. As I said, I am not a huge believer in them. It's been one of the easiest schedules I have ever seen a team play to this point, and the breaks keep going their way
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The power struggle really reared its head late into his reign and only because since 2004 the Eagles would go on streaks and sneak into the playoffs but they were no longer a top 2 seed. The program was built to have continued success. Sneaking in or winning a weak NFC East at 10-6 and hoping to catch lightning strained everyone's relationships.

Banner was basically let go no matter how much he claims he wanted a change of scenery. Reid and Roseman probably differed on my players and plans, especially when it came to letting McNabb go (Reid didn't want to do that), but in the end the offense and unfortunately even the D were built on Reid's vision.

Marty Morningweigh (sp?) called the plays but they were the same as when Reid called his own plays. Reid's vision of a small speedy set of LBs and defense overall showed in each and every draft. Going back to 05 the Eagles haven't produced any good to great starter on D outside of Trent Cole who was a steal in the 5th round.

It all just caught up. 14 years is enough. He needed the change too. I just don't get why while he was here we couldn't do things like hire Sutton for DC, strip Reid of some responsibilities, and make the smart obvious choices they made in KC. I feel like people still don't get how much of a mess and disaster the whole Castillo as DC, Washburn as Dline coach pseudo DC, and the wide 9 were. How Reid allowed that to happen for 2 years should earn him a 5 year ban in the NFL.
 
A

AngmarsKing701

Member
BaltimoreLarry said:
The difference this year is the running game. It's gone, as in both ineffective and lacking quantity. Of course our Oline can catch some blame, but I've watched the games, and neither Rice nor Pierce are breaking any tackles.

I'm not even going to talk about Flacco, but I can sum up my feelings with this conversation I had with my mom.

Me: Flacco sucks (something along those lines)

BaltimoreMom: The paper gave him a B minus and everyone else C or worse! They said he was average to OK for the game.

Me:YOU DON'T PAY 120 MILLION FUCKIN' DOLLARS FOR OK!!!!

*click*
Click to expand...

:jnc
 
S

squicken

Member
BaltimoreLarry said:
The difference this year is the running game. It's gone, as in both ineffective and lacking quantity. Of course our Oline can catch some blame, but I've watched the games, and neither Rice nor Pierce are breaking any tackles.
*
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So many discount the RBs role in making a run game go. Gotta wonder what KC's already shaky offense would look like w/o Charles doing all the heavy lifting
 
A

Ambient80

Member
KingGondo said:
I've seen some mocks with Tampa and Houston drafting a QB in the first, too.

I'd be fine with Manziel, although I prefer Mariota.

At least it would be interesting, rather than the inept shitshow we've been watching the last 2 years on offense.
Click to expand...

Speaking of Manziel, how do we think this guy is gonna do in the NFL? Personally I can't stand his attitude, although he does have some pretty great skill, at least in college. How will he transfer that to the NFL? Are we looking at another great rookie QB ala RGIII and Wilson? Or a bust, like Pat White? (trying to compare similar style QB's, rush/pass dual threat)
 
H

Hunter S.

Member
Only positive out of Manning being injured now is the bye week coming up. Out of the next couple of games if the Broncos had to have Brock Osweiler start I would rather it be versus the Redskins than the Chargers and Chiefs. And, even also against the Chargers over the Chiefs.
 
T

Trey

Member
greatestjediever said:
Yeah this is true. While the Colts used to get burned by RBs up the middle (when they used to play Cover 2/3) they also got burned by opposing TEs in the space between the MLB and the safeties.

In last weeks game, it seemed like the Colts usually had Angerer watching for the run play or the checkdown pass. I'd have to rewatch the game, but I wonder if the same gaps were available through the game (ie. something Orange Julius couldve exploited)
Click to expand...

They are always available in a cover 2. Colts coaches were either compensating for something or really thought that their pass rush would suffocate Peyton. The latter was mostly true, but began to disintergrate as the game wore on. If that pass rusher doesn't force that Peyton pick when he does, I think the Broncos win that game.
 
H

Hunter S.

Member
Trey said:
They are always available in a cover 2. Colts coaches were either compensating for something or really thought that their pass rush would suffocate Peyton. The latter was mostly true, but began to disintergrate as the game wore on. If that pass rusher doesn't force that Peyton pick when he does, I think the Broncos win that game.
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Or the Hillman fumble. But, whatever, only thing that will help any of that from happening again is the return of Orlando Franklyn and not playing Hillman nor Ball.
 
T

Trey

Member
Hunter S Thompson said:
Or the Hillman fumble. But, whatever, only thing that will help any of that from happening again is the return of Orlando Franklyn and not playing Hillman nor Ball.
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It was a two possession game at that point. Would have came down to low percentage plays for the Broncos that I tend not to assume will happen. They were definitely alive when Hillman fumbled, but they were in control when Peyton got hit-picked.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Wade Phillips ‏@sonofbum 4m
Bum was laid to rest today at a spot that he picked out on his ranch. He said "under that oak I can see the sunrise and sunset".#LuvyaBum
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630px-Bum_Philips_with_G.H.W._Bush_cropped.jpg


Good Bye Bum!
 
G

Godslay

Banned
Trey said:
I think if you're not getting the proper protection, then hoping the line gets a push is wishful thinking. The gains of exploiting the cover 2 through the air is much more lucrative than on the ground, and in the context of the Broncos' situation, they had no choice of using the run game to get something going.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they were pretty bad at getting a push.

Although I would disagree that because you are not protecting well doesn't mean you can't get a push. Beadles, Ramirez, and Kuper are not that great at getting push up the middle, so really it wouldn't have mattered much. Really the line needs Ramirez (C), Vasquez(G), and Franklin(RT), to all be healthy together to get that push.

I agree with you though on exploiting it through the air, but if you can't get it done via separation or protection, then you'll have to rely on running it. Really Julius Thomas should have been utilized more considering he's either stronger than any DB they put on him, or faster than any LB lined up against him. Welker did get going against it though, 2nd half.
 
K

KingGondo

Banned
Ambient80 said:
Speaking of Manziel, how do we think this guy is gonna do in the NFL? Personally I can't stand his attitude, although he does have some pretty great skill, at least in college. How will he transfer that to the NFL? Are we looking at another great rookie QB ala RGIII and Wilson? Or a bust, like Pat White? (trying to compare similar style QB's, rush/pass dual threat)
Click to expand...
Hard to tell. He definitely can't play how he does in college (make shit up on the fly and expect his athleticism to bail him out) but he's a very good passer.

It's risky, but if I'm the Browns I don't have a lot to lose anyways. Might as well take a risk and see what he can do. At the very least, it'll bring some excitement and attention to the franchise.

Then again, I'm not sure I want the kind of attention that JFF would bring. Maybe they could draft him and get Tebow as a backup. Pretty sure First Take would just relocate their set to Cleveland.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
KingGondo said:
Hard to tell. He definitely can't play how he does in college (make shit up on the fly and expect his athleticism to bail him out) but he's a very good passer.
Click to expand...
Tim Tebow had excellent passing stats in college. Looking at how he actually throws, Manziel seems really weak. Lots of wobbly balls and low release points. Sometimes he throws a dart or two, but it's all fairly inconsistent.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
Ambient80 said:
Speaking of Manziel, how do we think this guy is gonna do in the NFL? Personally I can't stand his attitude, although he does have some pretty great skill, at least in college. How will he transfer that to the NFL? Are we looking at another great rookie QB ala RGIII and Wilson? Or a bust, like Pat White? (trying to compare similar style QB's, rush/pass dual threat)
Click to expand...

"Bust out of a jam and throw up a prayer" ball won't work for him when everyone around him is 10 times bigger, faster, and stronger.

Sure he's athletic, but that's not going to translate well to a league where everyone's athletic.

That's not even getting into the off-the-field stuff.
 
L

Lee Chaolan

Member
KingGondo said:
Hard to tell. He definitely can't play how he does in college (make shit up on the fly and expect his athleticism to bail him out) but he's a very good passer.

It's risky, but if I'm the Browns I don't have a lot to lose anyways. Might as well take a risk and see what he can do. At the very least, it'll bring some excitement and attention to the franchise.

Then again, I'm not sure I want the kind of attention that JFF would bring. Maybe they could draft him and get Tebow as a backup. Pretty sure First Take would just relocate their set to Cleveland.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Skip misses talking about Cleveland since LeBron left town. That would be a pretty funny scenario.

squicken said:
JCamp also has a bit of a windup. Not like Leftwich, but it takes him awhile to throw the ball. WRs are going to get lit up, but they should be used to it by now from Weeds' high throws
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Makes me miss Hoyer's quick release all the more. :(
 
A

AranhaHunter

Banned
I was just thinking, the Jaguars should sign Tebow. The jaguars suck anyway, Chad Henne sucks. Tim Tebow is from St. Augustine and played in Gainesville, so he would be one of those hometown stories anyway.
 
D

DEATH™

Member
AranhaHunter said:
I was just thinking, the Jaguars should sign Tebow. The jaguars suck anyway, Chad Henne sucks. Tim Tebow is from St. Augustine and played in Gainesville, so he would be one of those hometown stories anyway.
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They won't sign him for the same reason Broncos peeps wants to ship him out quick. As much as I believe in Tebow got the potential to be great, signing new talent to fit the new offense, which just a GM saying to tebow "hey my job rests in your hands".

The real problem with Tebow is nobody in a front office/coaching staff got the balls to trust the dude, well except for the pats, but they got brady already....
 
C

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
Some friendly advice for my Browns-age friends. Either draft Bridgewater or nobody at qb. The reason your franchise is so fucked up is because they reach for a qb every 3 years. Stop. Just stop. Build a solid team and get an Alex Smith tier guy to manage the team until you find the right guy.

I'd have thought someone would have figured it out by now, but it's just not sinking in.
 
L

Lee Chaolan

Member
chuckddd said:
Some friendly advice for my Browns-age friends. Either draft Bridgewater or nobody at qb. The reason your franchise is so fucked up is because they reach for a qb every 3 years. Stop. Just stop. Build a solid team and get an Alex Smith tier guy to manage the team until you find the right guy.

I'd have thought someone would have figured it out by now, but it's just not sinking in.
Click to expand...

Browns fans have been talking about this for years. We're crappy every year, but not crappy enough to get the elite talent in the draft.

That's why it's such bullshit that the Colts just happened to "Luck" into sucking that year for Luck. I'd rather go 0-16 in a year where we could get Andrew Luck, rather than only winning 4-6 games a year and never getting any better.

Then again, even if you have the #1 pick it's no guarantee. Tim Couch was a flop and he seemed can't miss.
 
S

squicken

Member
chuckddd said:
Some friendly advice for my Browns-age friends. Either draft Bridgewater or nobody at qb. The reason your franchise is so fucked up is because they reach for a qb every 3 years. Stop. Just stop. Build a solid team and get an Alex Smith tier guy to manage the team until you find the right guy.

I'd have thought someone would have figured it out by now, but it's just not sinking in.
Click to expand...

That's the thing I don't get about everyone saying this is a great QB draft. Who is jumping off the screen like RG3? Or even fits the mold like Tannehill? Which one of these guys throws it like Matthew Stafford (jokes aside he was obviously an NFL QB in college with the size and arm)

I see Bridgewater and then ... I'm sure someone will emerge but I don't see a bunch of top 30 guys
 
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