• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NFL 2015 Week 1 |OT| - A Fraud’s Quest for Gold

L

LJ11

Member
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the WSJ piece, read all of them this morning, agreed with most of you had to say. I wanted to touch on the good old boy GM club that PD mentioned, it's awful, so I'm glad someone brought it up.

Cheeto, there was a Bob McGinn article a few years back where he gathered info/quotes from encounters with Packer scouts and FO personnel a couple of years after they drafted Rodgers. They all blasted the fuck out of Rodgers, thought he would never pan out. A year in and most were writing him off even though he never took a snap in a real game. I tried looking for it this morning, didn't find it. Some of these guys need to sit, so why they draft a project early is beyond me.
 
E

eznark

Banned
LJ11 said:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the WSJ piece, read all of them this morning, agreed with most of you had to say. I wanted to touch on the good old boy GM club that PD mentioned, it's awful, so I'm glad someone brought it up.

Cheeto, there was a Bob McGinn article a few years back where he gathered info/quotes from encounters with Packer scouts and FO personnel a couple of years after they drafted Rodgers. They all blasted the fuck out of Rodgers, thought he would never pan out. A year in and most were writing him off even though he never took a snap in a real game. I tried looking for it this morning, didn't find it. Some of these guys need to sit, so why they draft a project early is beyond me.
Click to expand...

I remember that Rodgers piece and one of the things that really stood out to me is how much stock NFL player personnel guys still put into raw talent. Rodgers was always a super smart QB, but he was robotic and had only slightly above average arm strength and was white (unathletic) so scouts at the time hated him.

I think that has changed in recent years. You look at the way people spooged over Luck despite not completely out of this world college performance in a more traditinal offense and it was predicated a lot on his game intelligence. Same (to a lesser extent) with Winston. He was praised over Mariotta for his ability to be an actual quarterback, unlike guys like Mariotta, Petty and Hundley who just played the QB position while the coaches ran the offense from the sidelines.

10 years ago Mariotta would have been drafted ahead of Winston and Hundley and Petty would have been top three round guys.
 
G

gutshot

Member
Interesting and thorough breakdown of the Eagles roster by a rival NFC scout:

On Bradford:
Scout: "I watched the tape of that first quarter against Green Bay. I think every one of Bradford's completions was a first read. He never had to get to a second read. When you play at the tempo they play at, there are only so many coverages a defense can play.

"I think Chip [Kelly] wanted a quarterback who could see what he sees. I'm not sure Nick Foles was always able to do that. But Bradford can. He's an extremely smart guy who is able to process information very quickly and get the ball out quickly and accurately
Click to expand...

On the wide receivers:
Scout: "They have a good group and a good plan for using them. The fact that they're young and relatively inexperienced doesn't seem to make any difference right now.

"Matthews isn't a Victor Cruz in the slot. He doesn't have that type of quickness. But he's got size and he knows how to use his body. He's got good hands. He's dependable and runs the precise routes that Kelly wants.

"Agholor is electric as soon as the ball touches his hands. In my mind, he's better - or at least soon will be better - than [Jeremy] Maclin. I don't know if his hands are as good as Maclin's. But as soon as Agholor touches the ball, he is electric in what he can do with it after the catch. He just has a knack for avoiding what's coming at him. He almost always makes that first guy miss.
Click to expand...

On the defensive line:
Scout: "This is an awfully good group. Cox is an All-Pro. No one can stop him one-on-one. No one. But the development of Logan, I don't think anybody could have seen this coming. He wasn't this type of player at LSU. They played a four-man front. He wasn't a nose tackle. At LSU, you pin your ears back and get after the quarterback. To see him play nose tackle, if anybody does block him, he doesn't stay blocked. He's never on the ground. He's really, really good.

"There wasn't a game you can watch from last year where Cox wasn't a dominant player. They have him playing a lot of snaps, but he is just relentless.
Click to expand...

More here: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...val_scout_s_evaluation_of_Eagles__roster.html

Biggest worry for me after reading this is the secondary. The scout doesn't think it is that much improved from last season. He is really critical of Eric Rowe. Really hoping that kid can figure it out.
 
A

ActStriker

Member
LJ11 said:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the WSJ piece, read all of them this morning, agreed with most of you had to say. I wanted to touch on the good old boy GM club that PD mentioned, it's awful, so I'm glad someone brought it up.

Cheeto, there was a Bob McGinn article a few years back where he gathered info/quotes from encounters with Packer scouts and FO personnel a couple of years after they drafted Rodgers. They all blasted the fuck out of Rodgers, thought he would never pan out. A year in and most were writing him off even though he never took a snap in a real game. I tried looking for it this morning, didn't find it. Some of these guys need to sit, so why they draft a project early is beyond me.
Click to expand...

This one?

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...r-audible-with-packers-4p3loj7-136856133.html
 
A

ACE 1991

Member
gutshot said:
Interesting and thorough breakdown of the Eagles roster by a rival NFC scout:

On Bradford:


On the wide receivers:


On the defensive line:


More here: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...val_scout_s_evaluation_of_Eagles__roster.html

Biggest worry for me after reading this is the secondary. The scout doesn't think it is that much improved from last season. He is really critical of Eric Rowe. Really hoping that kid can figure it out.
Click to expand...

Is it Monday night yet?! This Birds team is going to be so much fun to watch. I agree though, secondary is still a big ol' question mark.
 
R

Respect

Member
Dutch Patriot said:
#WhenInDoubtGronkItOut

GET HYPED
Click to expand...

ciaossu said:
Y'all remember this Gronk TD? https://youtu.be/yz-I2tS_7Qw?t=89

I'm ready for tonight, woo
Click to expand...

tumblr_maheevGvCN1qesv9d.gif
 
M

MechDX

Member
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter · 7m7 minutes ago
Bills signed Marcel Dareus to a six-year, $108 million extension, per source.

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter · 1m1 minute ago
Marcel Dareus' deal includes $60 million in guaranteed money, highest guarantee for a non-QB in NFL history. Dareus suspended week 1, too.
Click to expand...


Watt's deal is looking like a fucking bargain right now.

#FireRickSmith
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
gutshot said:
Interesting and thorough breakdown of the Eagles roster by a rival NFC scout:

On Bradford:


On the wide receivers:


On the defensive line:


More here: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...val_scout_s_evaluation_of_Eagles__roster.html

Biggest worry for me after reading this is the secondary. The scout doesn't think it is that much improved from last season. He is really critical of Eric Rowe. Really hoping that kid can figure it out.
Click to expand...

Dear Gutshot,

It was preseason. No one gives a fuck.

Your friend,

Fmt
 
H

Hindl

Member
gutshot said:
Interesting and thorough breakdown of the Eagles roster by a rival NFC scout:

On Bradford:


On the wide receivers:


On the defensive line:


More here: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...val_scout_s_evaluation_of_Eagles__roster.html

Biggest worry for me after reading this is the secondary. The scout doesn't think it is that much improved from last season. He is really critical of Eric Rowe. Really hoping that kid can figure it out.
Click to expand...

Yeah Rowe was having some issues, I'll just chalk it up to rookie getting into the NFL at CB, plus he only played it one year at college. He got beat a few times, but he was always able to catch up to the receiver. He just needs to develop fundamentals more. I wouldn't expect much from him this season, possibly even next, but he has the talent to develop into something in a few years.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Man, you guys are depressing as fuck this morning. You make it sound like we watch pure unadulterated trash every week. I think its very difficult to quantitatively say quality of play has dropped down. Our minds are great compare-o-meters, but terrible rememberers. I remember watching Star Wars every Christmas cause it was on tv when i was a kid and I remember it being great. I watched the blu-rays in the past year and the animation and special effects are horrible by todays standards.

The game has definitely changed with the rule changes, some for the better some for the worse. Its ridiculous that you even look at a QB's knee's and its an automatic penalty.


I fully agree on the GM club and even further the coaching club. Everyone is so conservative because they're all afraid of getting fired. Take a chance on a player, let him sit for a year. But no, owners want to win now, yet only one team a year can win the superbowl. Take a chance with play calls and going for it on fourth down. I know some of you don't like Easterbrook, but I think he is dead on when he says coaches call plays such that if the players mess it up its their fault but if the coach takes a chance and it fails miserably its the coaches fault.

wienke said:
I said these exact words to a college football fan once and he told me I was an idiot and had no idea what I was talking about. I still don't know how I was wrong!
Click to expand...
nothing like watching a 76 to 3 blow out or whatever this past weekend.




Marcell Darius getting paid. 25 million dollar signing bonus.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
captive said:
Man, you guys are depressing as fuck this morning. You make it sound like we watch pure unadulterated trash every week. I think its very difficult to quantitatively say quality of play has dropped down. Our minds are great compare-o-meters, but terrible rememberers. I remember watching Star Wars every Christmas cause it was on tv when i was a kid and I remember it being great. I watched the blu-rays in the past year and the animation and special effects are horrible by todays standards.

The game has definitely changed with the rule changes, some for the better some for the worse. Its ridiculous that you even look at a QB's knee's and its an automatic penalty.


I fully agree on the GM club and even further the coaching club. Everyone is so conservative because they're all afraid of getting fired. Take a chance on a player, let him sit for a year. But no, owners want to win now, yet only one team a year can win the superbowl. Take a chance with play calls and going for it on fourth down. I know some of you don't like Easterbrook, but I think he is dead on when he says coaches call plays such that if the players mess it up its their fault but if the coach takes a chance and it fails miserably its the coaches fault.


nothing like watching a 76 to 3 blow out or whatever this past weekend.




Marcell Darius getting paid. 25 million dollar signing bonus.
Click to expand...

Not everyone feels that way. I still love watching nfl despite its problems.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
FrenchMovieTheme said:
Not everyone feels that way. I still love watching nfl despite its problems.
Click to expand...

Yea I saw your posts, I think you have a point. But I think mostly what the others is talking about is the level of play from defenses, part of which has to do with the rule changes, but you now what these players need to buck up and tackle correctly instead of going for the kill shot all the time. The other problem is I think a lot of the best athletes are going towards offense and not defense.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
LJ11 said:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the WSJ piece, read all of them this morning, agreed with most of you had to say. I wanted to touch on the good old boy GM club that PD mentioned, it's awful, so I'm glad someone brought it up.

Cheeto, there was a Bob McGinn article a few years back where he gathered info/quotes from encounters with Packer scouts and FO personnel a couple of years after they drafted Rodgers. They all blasted the fuck out of Rodgers, thought he would never pan out. A year in and most were writing him off even though he never took a snap in a real game. I tried looking for it this morning, didn't find it. Some of these guys need to sit, so why they draft a project early is beyond me.
Click to expand...

I remember that article too. Your point about scouts and personnel folks is spot on. Especially here in Detroit, so much anger was aimed at Matt Millen - and rightfully so - but the scouts and other dudes are just as culpable. If your organization can't scout or determine talent you're fucked. And worse yet when it's due to guys wanting to be the smartest guy in the room, reaching for the shiny object in the draft.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
I really think people are underestimating the Panthers this year. Everyone is focused on the 7-8-1 record, but are forgetting the reason why we turned it around late in the year. Namely, 7 (or was it 9, can't remember which) rookies had replaced much of our week 1 starting lineup and even more than that had been benched/released in favor of other players by that point. Those players will all be better in year 2, we plugged the gaping hole at LT, and our QB isn't hobbling around with a surgically repaired ankle and broken ribs anymore. Losing Benjamin will hurt us against the elite of the conference (namely Seattle and Green Bay), but our roster top to bottom is the class of the NFC South, especially on defense. I'd say 8-8 is closer to our floor, not our ceiling like many analysts seem to think. If you put a gun to my head I'd say 11-5 with another division 'chip.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Tough blow. Mike Mohamed is out. Akeem Dent set to start. #Texans

Damn. MLB in nickel. Guess we will see if Cushing truly is a 100% now.

This sucks.
 
B

BigAT

Member
Crisco said:
I really think people are underestimating the Panthers this year. Everyone is focused on the 7-8-1 record, but are forgetting the reason why we turned it around late in the year. Namely, 7 (or was it 9, can't remember which) rookies had replaced much of our week 1 starting lineup and even more than that had been benched/released in favor of other players by that point. Those players will all be better in year 2, we plugged the gaping hole at LT, and our QB isn't hobbling around with a surgically repaired ankle and broken ribs anymore. Losing Benjamin will hurt us against the elite of the conference (namely Seattle and Green Bay), but our roster top to bottom is the class of the NFC South, especially on defense. I'd say 8-8 is closer to our floor, not our ceiling like many analysts seem to think. If you put a gun to my head I'd say 11-5 with another division 'chip.
Click to expand...

The reason you started turning it around was because you started playing your division schedule. Any team can look good against the garbage that is the NFC South. Your last four wins came against the Saints, Bucs, Browns and Falcons.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
captive said:
Yea I saw your posts, I think you have a point. But I think mostly what the others is talking about is the level of play from defenses, part of which has to do with the rule changes, but you now what these players need to buck up and tackle correctly instead of going for the kill shot all the time. The other problem is I think a lot of the best athletes are going towards offense and not defense.
Click to expand...

But if their issue is poor defense then I would think they wouldn't like college fb
 
S

Suite Pee

Willing to learn
Not to give Kas any more false hope than the mountain he already has, but I'm a bit surprised no one at ESPN picked the Lions over the Chargers.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
BigAT said:
The reason you started turning it around was because you started playing your division schedule. Any team can look good against the garbage that is the NFC South. Your last four wins came against the Saints, Bucs, Browns and Falcons.
Click to expand...

But we went from losing to the Saints and Falcons to blowing them out by 31 points. Same opponent, different results. And in any case, you're just restating my point: we were better than our division rivals in 2014 and will remain so in 2015.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Crisco said:
I really think people are underestimating the Panthers this year. Everyone is focused on the 7-8-1 record, but are forgetting the reason why we turned it around late in the year. Namely, 7 (or was it 9, can't remember which) rookies had replaced much of our week 1 starting lineup and even more than that had been benched/released in favor of other players by that point. Those players will all be better in year 2, we plugged the gaping hole at LT, and our QB isn't hobbling around with a surgically repaired ankle and broken ribs anymore. Losing Benjamin will hurt us against the elite of the conference (namely Seattle and Green Bay), but our roster top to bottom is the class of the NFC South, especially on defense. I'd say 8-8 is closer to our floor, not our ceiling like many analysts seem to think. If you put a gun to my head I'd say 11-5 with another division 'chip.
Click to expand...

You're crazy.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
I don't even know who to pick for my second team in a do or die pool. You can only use a team once. I'm sold on Miami beating the Redskins for one pick but I don't want to waste a top tier team early on my second but the other games are rough.
 
F

FloydtheFathead

Member
The_Darkest_Red said:
I will always enjoy NFL football more than college because there is a lot more parity and the general level of play is simply higher, especially on defense. Take last Monday's game for instance. It was hard watching VT play OSU because there is such a clear disparity in talent and a lot of that simply comes down to which program has more scouting resources.

That said, there are still a ton of great CFB matchups every season. If you stick with watching the top teams duke it out you will end up with some quality entertainment.

Regarding the "QB crisis", I don't necessarily see it. Sure there is going to be a drop-off when some of these older greats retire but I think a few more guys will step up and take over the elite tier. The NFL has never had more than a handful of elite QBs at a given time and I don't see how that has changed over the years.

College QBs might have a larger learning curve now compared to the past but the guys with intelligence and talent will adapt within a few years and rise to the top, same as always. The difference is they will either learn through a trial by fire as opposed to sitting for a few years or play in a college style offense ala Chip Kelley's.
Click to expand...

wienke said:
I said these exact words to a college football fan once and he told me I was an idiot and had no idea what I was talking about. I still don't know how I was wrong!
Click to expand...

See I am the opposite.. If it comes down to watching a big time college football game or a big time NFL game. I'll watch the college game. I prefer college to the NFL is all. I obviously still watch nfl and my browns in big games and what have you because it's football.

It is like (and The Euros can correct me if I'm wrong) college football is similar to that where there are dozens of teams in the area (Ohio for example at all levels of the collegiate level) that people can cheer for. It seems that way in Europe with soccer.

In addition, you know your college football stars rather than your NFL stars as a lot are from your communities and you can have more of a connection than with an NFL star.

Is the product better overall in NFL 90% of the time.. Of course it is. But to me at least, the game feels a little more pure than on the NFL. That's just how I feel is all.

Also the QB controversy stuff. The NFL can only work with what college gives it. Andrew Luck was literally once in a generation prospect. The pro game will develop around that and adjust.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Crisco said:
Look at our schedule. We only have 2 road games and 4 games total against playoff teams from last year. We should be favored in well over half our games.
Click to expand...

What do last years playoff teams have to do with anything? There have been at least 4 new playoff teams every year for over 20 years straight.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
FloydtheFathead said:
See I am the opposite.. If it comes down to watching a big time college football game or a big time NFL game. I'll watch the college game. I prefer college to the NFL is all. I obviously still watch nfl and my browns in big games and what have you because it's football.

It is like (and The Euros can correct me if I'm wrong) college football is similar to that where there are dozens of teams in the area (Ohio for example at all levels of the collegiate level) that people can cheer for. It seems that way in Europe with soccer.

In addition, you know your college football stars rather than your NFL stars as a lot are from your communities and you can have more of a connection than with an NFL star.

Is the product better overall in NFL 90% of the time.. Of course it is. But to me at least, the game feels a little more pure than on the NFL. That's just how I feel is all.

Also the QB controversy stuff. The NFL can only work with what college gives it. Andrew Luck was literally once in a generation prospect. The pro game will develop around that and adjust.
Click to expand...
Can't imagine why a Buckeyes and Browns fan would prefer CFB. ;)
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
My concern with the Panthers is their offense which could honestly end up being awful. Let's say Stewart isn't doing a lot in a given game and the defense is keying in on Olsen in the pass game. Where is the production coming from, Ted Ginn on deep balls? Have fun with that, Henne Cam.

Cam is a dynamic runner of course so that will help, but it's hard to overlook the WR issue and Cam's inconsistent accuracy.
 
W

Wrayfield

Member
FloydtheFathead said:
See I am the opposite.. If it comes down to watching a big time college football game or a big time NFL game. I'll watch the college game. I prefer college to the NFL is all. I obviously still watch nfl and my browns in big games and what have you because it's football.

It is like (and The Euros can correct me if I'm wrong) college football is similar to that where there are dozens of teams in the area (Ohio for example at all levels of the collegiate level) that people can cheer for. It seems that way in Europe with soccer.

In addition, you know your college football stars rather than your NFL stars as a lot are from your communities and you can have more of a connection than with an NFL star.

Is the product better overall in NFL 90% of the time.. Of course it is. But to me at least, the game feels a little more pure than on the NFL. That's just how I feel is all.

Also the QB controversy stuff. The NFL can only work with what college gives it. Andrew Luck was literally once in a generation prospect. The pro game will develop around that and adjust.
Click to expand...

I agree. If it's a college nearish you or somewhere you studied, the allure is different. Even if the level of play isn't NFL.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
Wrayfield said:
I agree. If it's a college nearish you or somewhere you studied, the allure is different. Even if the level of play isn't NFL.
Click to expand...
Being part of the insane student body of fans at Lane Stadium is one of my favorite life experiences. Thursday night with the lights on, key third down for the opposing team, everyone screaming their heads off... nothing like it.
 
F

FloydtheFathead

Member
cdyhybrid said:
College football is pure
ly depressing if you're a Washington fan
Click to expand...

Still have more national championships than Oregon :D

Himynameischris said:
I have that annual queasy feeling about the Dolphins, lot's of positive talk going into the season, I've bought into the hype and my heart is bracing for heart break.



I'm fucken ready!
Click to expand...

If Philbin can't get to wild card at least.. Ross needs to have executed at midfield. There is just no way. Believe Chris.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

NFL 2015 Week 14 |OT| - A Fraud Probably Injures Himself
160 161 162 163 164
8K
284K
Mackenzie 92 replied
NFL 2015 Week 13 |OT| - A Fraud Gorged on Thanksgiving
185 186 187 188 189
9K
333K
The Albatross replied
  • Locked
NFL 2017 Week 1 |OT| - Look, Are You Ready for Some Football?
202 203 204 205 206
10K
465K
Gigglepoo replied
NFL 2015 Week 10 |OT| - A Fraud is Not Clearly Better Than Blaine Gabbert
192 193 194 195 196
10K
347K
Striker replied
NFL 2015 Week 9 |OT| - A Fraud Had Some Nice Shoes
189 190 191 192 193
10K
338K
MetalFearSolid replied
Top Bottom