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NFL 2015 Week 12 |OT| - A Fraud is Thankful

S

squicken

Member
Godslay said:
Why does Chip get to be compared to those cases?

For every Belchick or Carroll, there's a Kiffin, McD, or Saban.
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Chip took over a 4 win team and won won 20 games his first two seasons. Not many bad coaches have done that. I think the larger point was that we don't really know who is and isn't a good coach.

Steelers and even Colts fans killed Arians at times. Carroll was a "lol re-tread". Just watching John Fox last night kind of reminded me of how good a coach he is. Yes, he is a brutal game manager and way way too conservative. But he totally changed the culture in Chicago. Worse GB teams have beat better Bears teams than the ones last night.
 
S

Sweeney Tom

Banned
Giants are going to end the undefeated records of both the Panthers and Patriots in the playoffs, and it's going to be what finally kills NFLGAF
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Coaches take time. More so than anything else. The difference between the successful programs are the clubs that stick with coaches through the natural ups and downs of team. There will come a day when Brady retires and Belichick will look mortal again. The Patriots won't fire him with 2 years of missing the playoffs. The Giants stuck with Coughlin through 3 rounds of "he's on the hot seat" horseshit from ESPN.

The Browns and their fan base are a prime example right now of the opposite. Pettine has barely had enough time to really get his own players into his system and they're already calling for his head. The guy is just as responsible for the culture shift we saw in Buffalo as Pegula and Cleveland is about ready to chuck him on the trash heap. Some are even blaming Manziel's off the field issues on him, ignoring the fact that Farmer was the guy who fought to draft him and was the one in the offseason talking about how great a victory it was.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
WanderingWind said:
Coaches take time. More so than anything else. The difference between the successful programs are the clubs that stick with coaches through the natural ups and downs of team. There will come a day when Brady retires and Belichick will look mortal again. The Patriots won't fire him with 2 years of missing the playoffs. The Giants stuck with Coughlin through 3 rounds of "he's on the hot seat" horseshit from ESPN.
Click to expand...

I've honestly wondered if Bill will just retire when Tom does.
 
A

AngmarsKing701

Member
squicken said:
Chip took over a 4 win team and won won 20 games his first two seasons. Not many bad coaches have done that. I think the larger point was that we don't really know who is and isn't a good coach.

Steelers and even Colts fans killed Arians at times. Carroll was a "lol re-tread". Just watching John Fox last night kind of reminded me of how good a coach he is. Yes, he is a brutal game manager and way way too conservative. But he totally changed the culture in Chicago. Worse GB teams have beat better Bears teams than the ones last night.
Click to expand...

With Chip it feels like he has a system and he's trying to get the players to fit the system. Rather than understanding what skills he has and molding the system to the roster. But I'll admit I don't watch a ton of Eagles games, so maybe that's a misrepresentation. It's also horribly apparent that as a GM he made some moves that backfired. Could he be replaced as GM and told to concentrate on coaching? Or if he's fired as GM is it simply better to fire him as coach too.

As for the "re-treads" I think we see a few of these guys learn something in their first stint, and that experience pays off later. Carroll's amped up style clearly helped him out in college, but he also mellowed a bit over time. Belichick was a complete failure in Cleveland (but who isn't?) and then went back to being a DC under Parcells where he clearly has picked up some mannerisms.

As for Arians, I love his style, but if you don't have an oline then that style can get a QB killed. Ben took a brutal beating for a few years when the oline was awful, and Arians didn't change things up too much regardless. I agree with ez that Arians + Luck would have been something special to watch for a few years.

Fox is conservative for sure, but they've got a nice little coaching staff there in Chicago with Gase and Fangio. Not sure how long they'll all stick together, and clearly Cutler isn't going to win you a Super Bowl (he's too inconsistent), but if their GM can get a decent draft then they can make some noise in North.
 
T

TheFatOne

Member
Cowboys have to seriously start preparing to move on from Romo. He's going to be a 36 year old qb next season coming off an injury. He probably only has a couple of years left. Cowboys need to start looking for the replacement right now before its too late. Older qbs are at risk of loosing their skill at any given moment. It's pretty clear right now that he's not the guy who is going to win the Cowboys a super bowl. Use his last good year or two and groom a qb.
 
D

Dutch Gronk

Banned
DrForester said:
I've honestly wondered if Bill will just retire when Tom does.
Click to expand...

Depends on how long Tom keeps playing. I still hold out hope for Bill staying, him wanting to set his legacy without Tom. Just like how Walsh did it with Young after Montana.

Otherwise it Patricia his team. I trust that man, he's a damn rocket engineer, football is easy for him.
 
K

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
Godslay said:
Taking my kids ice skating.

See you guys later.

#Boring
Click to expand...

FYI up here where I'm from (Canada) that sir is the equivalent of spitting in my face and then shooting one of my moose.

You have offended and triggered me and I demand an apology.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Sweeney Tom said:
Giants are going to end the undefeated records of both the Panthers and Patriots in the playoffs, and it's going to be what finally kills NFLGAF
Click to expand...

Just dont see it. Giants defensive line isn't what it was during their Super Bowl seasons, and their receivers are Beckham plus a bunch of dudes. Those upsets in the past weren't accidents, the Giants had very talented rosters. Not this year.
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
TheFatOne said:
Cowboys have to seriously start preparing to move on from Romo. He's going to be a 36 year old qb next season coming off an injury. He probably only has a couple of years left. Cowboys need to start looking for the replacement right now before its too late. Older qbs are at risk of loosing their skill at any given moment. It's pretty clear right now that he's not the guy who is going to win the Cowboys a super bowl. Use his last good year or two and groom a qb.
Click to expand...

Does he have anything left even?

I think he may be done with his injury history. A lot changes after an injury at his age plus he'll be a year older next season.
 
N

Narag

Member
TheFatOne said:
Cowboys have to seriously start preparing to move on from Romo. He's going to be a 36 year old qb next season coming off an injury. He probably only has a couple of years left. Cowboys need to start looking for the replacement right now before its too late. Older qbs are at risk of loosing their skill at any given moment. It's pretty clear right now that he's not the guy who is going to win the Cowboys a super bowl. Use his last good year or two and groom a qb.
Click to expand...

Jerruh's going to snatch up JFF when the Browns cut him.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
the_moose_cat_by_mykyuubi.jpg
 
B

BlackGhost

Banned
WanderingWind said:
The Browns and their fan base are a prime example right now of the opposite. Pettine has barely had enough time to really get his own players into his system and they're already calling for his head. The guy is just as responsible for the culture shift we saw in Buffalo as Pegula and Cleveland is about ready to chuck him on the trash heap. Some are even blaming Manziel's off the field issues on him, ignoring the fact that Farmer was the guy who fought to draft him and was the one in the offseason talking about how great a victory it was.
Click to expand...
I do believe in continuality , and giving coaches times. i don't believe pettine is terrible, he has some good qualities. But pls you're on the outside looking in on this Browns situation.

I've watched every game and and know about the little things that go on that others who aren't fans of the team don't know about. Pettine throwing players on the bus, defensive players questioning his scheme, etc. while drafting hasn't been perfect he's part of the problem in that too.

It seems you really look optimistically on pettine from his time in buffalo, that's understandable. This is a different situation however. The two things we came into the season saying we would do and worked to improve on during the offseason was running the football and stopping the run. The Browns can't do any of those things well, in fact we're at the bottom of the league, while its not all pettines fault.....he is not blameless in this all. The positions the D puts our own players in etc. this teams lack of discipline is incredible. On the season i believe we have more penalty yards then rushing yds, atleast by 100 yds.

Now I'm of the belief Ray Farmer needs to be fired. We get rid of farmer and it's likely to assume the new GM would want a HC. I understand giving people time, but for most I believe we want a fresh start from all of this. New GM, HC, QB. Now you can say that's what's wrong with this franchise always starting over, but we're going down a bad path with the current regime. I don't want continuality for the sake of it.

Again I think a good amount of the Browns fans on this board are more Intune with what's actually happening with our team. I don't doublt maybe in the future in the right situation pettine can be a decent coach. This situation is Not right however. What's going on, what's been happening is not good. This Is like if I posted Marrone needed more time. The marriages across the board with this team are not right in the present. It's obviously the many of the players especially on the D question Pettine in the present too.
meow
 
B

BaltimoreLarry

Member
The Romo news is gonna hurt the Ravens chances at the #1 pick.

Going it's I this year, who would have thought the Ravens and Cowboys would be battling it out for the top pick. I remember both being consensus playoff teams.
 
L

Line_HTX

Member
The Packers receivers were too busy playing Black Ops III trying to get all the way to Master Prestige than knowing the routes and catching balls confirmed.
 
F

Farooq

Banned
As Romo lay on the field this Thursday, I turned to the Bible for guidance, it provided me a path for what I needed. I have decided to come out of my self imposed exile to post it.

Coach's Bible said:
A logical argument can be made that no position on an NFL team is more important than the quarterback. Playing quarterback requires several skills and traits—some of which can be developed through practice and sound coaching, and others which are inherited (i.e., genetic ''gifts").

One of the most obvious requirements for a quarterback is the ability to pass. If an individual can't pass, he won't have any chance to play as a quarterback in the NFL. The days that a "flinger" or "slinger" (i.e., someone with a Joe Kapptype arm) would be given a legitimate opportunity to make an NFL roster as a quarterback are history. It is important to realize that arm strength and being able to pass are not synonymous. Some players can throw a football 80 yards, but they aren't good passers. Good passing involves accuracy, timing, and throwing a ball with enough touch so that it is catchable.

Good passing also requires understanding both the offensive system and the receivers in the system, and having a great sense of anticipation. While it is certainly admirable to be able to throw a ball on a line for 35 yards, if the ball is off target or arrives in such a way that it is difficult to catch, such an ability is of dubious value. The fundamental goal of passing a ball is to make sure it's caught . . . by the intended receiver.

One of the more important criteria for assessing the pro potential of a quarterback is to what extent does he have the ability to throw a "complete inventory" of passes—from screen passes to times, short passes to medium-range passes and down the field throws. Not having a "complete inventory" of passes in his arsenal does not eliminate a quarterback from a team's considerations, but it can be a meaningful factor. While a number of extraordinarily talented quarterbacks have played in the NFL who were not able to throw a complete array of passes, having such an individual quarterback the team would limit the type of offense that the team could run effectively.

Several other factors involving how well a quarterback can perform in the passing game segment of a team's offense should also be considered, including a quick delivery, touch, the ability to read defenses, mobility, and an ability to avoid a pass rush. A quick delivery is essentially the ability to get the ball "up and gone" with no wasted motion.

While a quick delivery can be acquired to some degree by learning and practicing the proper techniques for passing a ball, such a release is primarily related to an inherited motor skill—the quarterback's reaction time (i.e., how long it takes between when the quarterback spots his receiver and when he actually throws the ball). Particularly when it's not telegraphed in such a way that helps the defense, a quick delivery is an advantage for the quarterback once he "sees" his receiver. The faster he releases the ball, the less time the defense has to react to the situation.

The ability of a quarterback to throw a pass with the proper touch is also important, especially in a medium range passing game. The right touch on a throw enables a pass to be more easily caught by a receiver without having to break his stride. One of the best "touch" passers in the history of the NFL was Joe Montana of the San Francisco 49ers.

Successful quarterbacks also have the ability to read defenses. Such a skill is not something that most quarterbacks have learned to a high degree coming out of college. Even if they have, they face very different defenses in the NFL. Regardless of whether quarterbacks are required to read defenses in college, most intercollegiate offensive systems require quarterbacks to look at their primary and secondary receivers, usually based on the defense confronting him.

If a review of game films indicates that the quarterback is able to locate his secondary receiver (or even an emergency outlet receiver on occasion) with ease, or with a sense of urgency, this player has a chance to be a consistent performer in the NFL. The quarterback, however, must be able to handle such situations in a composed, systematic manner (i.e., initially, look for his primary receivers; then, immediately see his secondary receivers). Mobility and the ability to avoid a pass rush are also essential criteria for quarterbacks. Quarterbacks must be mobile enough to avoid a pass rush when they feel pressure in the pocket.

If throwing a ball was the only aspect of playing quarterback, evaluating the position of quarterback would be a relatively easy task. Because of the dynamic role that a quarterback plays on a team, he must have physical, mental, emotional and instinctive traits that go well beyond his ability to pass the football. A quarterback, for example, must be courageous and intensely competitive. Because he is the individual who is leading the team on the field, his teammates must have confidence in both his skills and his ability to withstand the pressure packed
situations he will face. His intestinal fortitude must be unquestioned. In this regard, two of the best in the history of the NFL were Bart Starr and Bob Griese.

A great quarterback also has excellent instincts and intuition. He has a "feel" for the game that goes well beyond knowing the playbook and his teammates, and understanding the nuances of the defensive schemes his team's offense must face. All factors considered, quarterbacks are born with such instincts and intuition. As a rule, there is not much that coaches can do to develop this area.

The ability to make superior, spontaneous decisions (especially at crucial times) is another trait that great quarterbacks possess. By combining his experience, vision, and what might be termed "instinctive genius," a great quarterback almost always seems to be able to make the "right call" at the "right time."

Finally, quarterbacks must have the ability to function at an appropriate level while injured. The pro season is almost twice as long as the college season. The level of intensity and punishment quarterbacks must endure is also considerably higher. Every time a quarterback goes back to pass, he is vulnerable to being hit hard. He must have the ability to withstand the hitting, to avoid being rattled, and to continue to exert a high level of leadership.
Click to expand...



Walsh>Belichick said:
No single "blueprint" exists for specifying what skills and traits a quarterback should possess and how much of each characteristic a quarterback should have. The veracity of such a point is reinforced when the playing abilities of several of the great quarterbacks in the history of the NFL are considered.

For example, it is very difficult (if not impossible) to compare and rank the agile efficiency of Joe Montana, to the courage and throwing touch of Dan Fouts, to the pure mechanics of Ken Anderson, to the sheer athletic ability of Steve Young, etc. In his own unique way, each great quarterback has a wide range of qualities that are reflected in varying levels of specific abilities.

The issue is further compounded by the fact that although some quarterbacks appear, at face value, to have every quality that would be necessary for that position, they never developed into productive players—for whatever reason. In these situations, the sum of the parts did not equal the whole, because for the quarterback position, the whole is normally greater than the sum of the parts.

On the other hand, several examples exist of players who otherwise might seem to be somewhat deficient in some of the quantifiable measures deemed essential for a quarterback who excelled on the playing field—for whatever combination of reasons.

Unquestionably, the illustration of this situation is Joe Montana—quite possibly the best quarterback to ever play in the NFL. A number of factors diminished Montana in the eyes of the NFL talent evaluators. He lacked the ideal size and arm strength. He seemed a bit too shy and reserved in his demeanor. He also did not have a particularly significant playing career at Notre Dame (i.e., he did not have a body of work from which definitive conclusions regarding his playing potential could be drawn).

As a result, Montana was drafted in the third round—by all reasonable standards, an extraordinary "bargain" for the San Francisco 49ers. Given the opportunity to play, he became the embodiment of the ultimate competitor whose agility, efficient footwork, uncanny instincts, and marvelous touch and timing, coupled with his amazing level of spontaneity and sense of anticipation, combined to make him the winningest and most productive quarterback in the history of the game.

Identifying the Key Qualities of a Quarterback:

Collectively, effective quarterbacks exhibit a number of traits, including the fact that they are courageous, competitive, spontaneous, adaptable, poised, and mentally and physically tough. They also tend to possess the following critical qualities:

• Functional intelligence. The ability of a player to organize and isolate different categories of tasks that he must perform in a particular situation is commonly referred to as functional intelligence. Involving more than strictly his innate IQ level, this characteristic reflects the fact that a quarterback has the ability to quickly break things down (e.g., events, situations, circumstances, etc.) to a point of understanding where he does not overly complicate his response to them. This ability is the key to being able to instantly process information in highly stressful situations.

• Ability to learn. A quarterback must have the ability to develop and adhere to the proper mechanics for playing quarterback. For some athletes, the learning process will be intuitive—almost natural—requiring minimal effort on their part. For other individuals, the steps to understand and to ingrain these abilities will require more time and hands on instruction.

On the other hand, some quarterbacks will never be able to develop the mechanics required for their position to an acceptable degree, regardless of how much energy they expend trying. In reality, if they aren't able to acquire the proper attributes for playing quarterback within a reasonable period of time, it's quite likely they never will.

• Willingness to improve. An inherent willingness to improve and learn is vital to the developmental progression of a quarterback. With regard to the learning process, a quarterback must have a reasonable level of compatibility with the coaching staff and his teammates.

• Good work ethic. Not only should a quarterback understand the proper mechanics for his position, he must also spend an appropriate amount of time working on them. The most effective approach in this regard is frequent repetitive practice. For example, it is essential that a quarterback has efficient footwork. In fact, working on a quarterback's footwork is one of the most helpful steps that the coaching staff can take to improve the quarterback's skills and playing abilities.

Many coaches have discovered the fact that effective quarterbacking involves much more than having the mechanical ability to sit, unencumbered, in the pocket and efficiently set the feet, transfer weight from the back foot to the front foot, and efficiently follow-through with the arm and shoulder. While many individuals may have this capability, few throws are made in such a rarefied atmosphere—outside of quarterback exercises during warmups and 7on7 drills.

In reality, during the game, the quarterback must have the physical skills and the proper mechanics to be able to deliver the ball effectively to his intended receiver, while moving in the pocket, throwing off his back foot, or scrambling for his "life." In other words, a quarterback must have the ability to accurately, quickly, and with a sufficient amount of arm strength throw a pass no matter what position his feet are in.

• Proper throwing action. A quarterback must master the basic mechanics of the throwing action. Accordingly, he must regularly work on maintaining his natural, normal throwing motion. Two coaching points are particularly critical in this regard. First, during his delivery, he must never allow the tip of the ball to drop below his waist. Second, he must always release the ball above his shoulders.

On the other hand, coaches should be aware of the fact that, for the most part, an athlete either has the ability to throw the ball properly or he doesn't. In reality, coaching usually has only minimal effect on this skill (i.e., "if an individual can't throw, he can't throw").

It is also important to note that, all factors considered, arm strength is not a major factor in proper throwing action. While an appropriate level of arm strength is a necessary attribute for a quarterback, other considerations are even more important (e.g., touch, the ability to deliver the ball in a smooth and efficient manner, etc.).

• Emotional stability. A quarterback must have the ability to handle the stress and pressures that occur during the game. He must be able to control his emotions to a point where he can think clearly, evaluate his options, and act rationally, regardless of the situation. Similar to other aspects of quarterbacking, within a reasonable period of time, an athlete will either show that he can deal with his emotions properly within the
framework of the game or demonstrate to the coaching staff (by his actions) that further effort in this regard is a waste of time.

• Leadership abilities. A quarterback should lead by example. In this regard, his performance during the game is crucial. While different quarterbacks will have different leadership styles, ranging from somewhat casual, not particularly demonstrative (e.g., Joe Montana) to vocal and very demanding (e.g., Brett Favre), all successful quarterbacks exhibit the proper mind set, the necessary poise, and the absolute focus required for the position while on the field—characteristics which are often subsequently emulated by their teammates
Click to expand...

Jared Goff future. Quoted text is from Bill Walsh's book Finding the Winning Edge, AKA The Coach's Bible.
 
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