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[Futurevoid]

So I was re-watching some of the game tape on the Saints game and its pretty amazing to see where Spags is as a coordinator with the talent level around him. As a coach known for his blitzing schemes, the game plan was remarkably conservative and they deviated very little from that game plan throughout. It was actually remarkably similar to the plan the Giants employed against the Cowboys in week 1 in many ways. The primary difference here is the Giants sent more than their front four on only five of the 70 snaps the defense was on the field for. Five! That's a stunning statistic for me for a team so incapable of producing a pass rush. There's obviously concern about leaving the back end on an island with Prince down but I don't get it - the results on the field are self-exclamatory.

Trevin Wade and Jayron Hosely combined to allow 11 targets, 216 yards and 4 TD's (every single time Brees threw the ball to either, it was a completion).

Jayron Hosley, Trevin Wade both allowed a perfect passer rating of 158.3, according to @PFF. Targeted 11 X, allowed 11-216, 4 TDs. Ouch.

So you don't have the front four to apply pressure and you don't have the horses in the secondary to play coverage. The Giants defense had Jasper Brinkley starting at MLB (and he was lining up the defense). A third stringer. They had linebackers lining up on wideouts on the outside (Casillas lined up on Cooks for a few snaps!). Later in the game we sent three and tried to play more coverage - the results were the same.

I have to wonder if at some point along the way here, Spags just has to say fuck it and start being aggressive again. If you're going to get lit on fire, shat on and then lit on fire again by one of the more prolific QB's in the league, you might as well go down throwing everything you have at him with a more aggressive second half game plan.

 

[Godslay]

Does it really take you 30 minutes to read 10k words?

My god, I'm so sorry.

And the problem with Kas is that he comments on games he didn't watch. I haven't said a work about the game other that "I remember the Packers looked like shit" which is about as in depth as 75% of the people who post in this thread get anyway.

Just got done reading it. Whew tough read.

 

[ActStriker]

No Haden, no Whitner and maybe no Gipson in Cleveland's secondary. Dalton gonna break that primetime jinx tonight and take the Browns to the Super Bowl right on the 50 yard line.

Ian RapoportVerified account ‏@RapSheet 40m40 minutes ago
#Browns S Tashaun Gipson (ankle) is questionable for tonight vs #Bengals, but I'm told he's going to play. He's the leader in the secondary

still in bad shape tho

 

[Sanjuro]

I got one of those California crunch wraps. Not bad!

 

[Striker]

Trevin Wade and Jayron Hosely combined to allow 11 targets, 216 yards and 4 TD's (every single time Brees threw the ball to either, it was a completion).

That's basically what it is to it.

Front four consisting of Robert Ayers being your best DE, and yeah he's not bad, but he's not a top guy rushing the passer. His best situation is running from the inside and he performed really well at it last year. They can't really do that much with the lack of pass-rush talent across the DL. Hankins is doing his own stopping the run, but he's eating double teams and hasn't really gotten in rhythm in getting much penetration. Bromley, Jenkins, Wynn, Selvie, JAGs. Kuhn is straight garbage and how he's still starting, much less on the team, is astounding.

The LB's had two starters out and an undrafted rookie still getting ample time and often abused in coverage. Kennard had a rough day in coverage too and he's normally been okay at that this season.

The DB's have DRC and that's it. I like Collins' future, but he really was bad this game. Bennett Jackson would've been the starting FS had he not gotten hurt. They have been really lacking a Safety who has some coverage ability. It's not Collins but he's stuck in this spot until they get someone who can. Wade, Hosley? Not NFL players, much less starters. Not pinning any of this on Spags - it's Reese's mistakes.

 

[xnipx]

You know who the Giants could use on their team? My man Jameel McClain.

 

[tmdorsey]

He is the new Dalton Line. Right there around 15. I had him higher in 2012 and 2013, because he was actually playing pretty ok football most of the time.

Seems to me like he has probably peaked. I assume they will try to get him some weapons though so at some point he'll actually put up better numbers, but this seems to be his true talent level. He's a lot like Dalton, his productivity is as dependent on those around him as his own skill. Including the scheme.

Where's Ryan on your list?



Also bruhs, I had a horrible, horrible dream last night. The league for some reason conceded the championship to the Patriots. Belichick was holding the Lombardi trophy grinning like an evil madman, and Brady was flossing and flaunting his 5 rings. It was terrible.

 

[Futurevoid]

That's basically what it is to it.

Not pinning any of this on Spags - it's Reese's mistakes.

Interesting considering Fewell was consistently taken to task for not being more aggressive in his game planning and for a "lack of adjustments" as it were. Here we have a pretty clear example of that very thing.

Even moreso considering Spags knows /exactly/ what he has with this roster. It wasn't like the defensive breakdowns were kept to a minimum in the first half. Brees already had 4 TD's at half time. You're telling me there was no introspection in the locker room at half time that perhaps trying to play coverage with the likes of Wade/Hosely and Casillas maybe wasn't a good idea? The Saints offense sat in 5 wide formations and no backs on a large percentage of their passing plays. Zero respect for the pass rush...so lets keep rushing 4! Or even 3 and try to play more coverage.

Listen, I like many of the things Spags has done thus far this year with a completely undermanned defense but its laughable to ignore the ineptitude at the coaching level in this particular game.

 

[Dragon]

Also bruhs, I had a horrible, horrible dream last night. The league for some reason conceded the championship to the Patriots. Belichick was holding the Lombardi trophy grinning like an evil madman, and Brady was flossing and flaunting his 5 rings. It was terrible.

Sounds like what happened last year.

 

[rando14]

This writer loves him (and Wilson and Rivers)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...eason-starters-quarterbacks-ranking/75189106/

I dunno about Wilson.... his Y/A is slightly up (eh), his AY/A is slightly down, his INT rate is slightly up, and his ANY/A is slightly down. His receivers are better but his running game and O line are quite a bit worse.

Obviously it's a 1/2 yr sample size and he typically does better in the 2nd half of seasons though so all's not lost. Also Lynch is healthy now which should help

P.S. There needs to be more appreciation for Carson Palmer in this thread, he is having an unreal season. Blowing out the league in ANY/A

 

[Farooq]

So I was re-watching some of the game tape on the Saints game and its pretty amazing to see where Spags is as a coordinator with the talent level around him. As a coach known for his blitzing schemes, the game plan was remarkably conservative and they deviated very little from that game plan throughout. It was actually remarkably similar to the plan the Giants employed against the Cowboys in week 1 in many ways. The primary difference here is the Giants sent more than their front four on only five of the 70 snaps the defense was on the field for. Five! That's a stunning statistic for me for a team so incapable of producing a pass rush. There's obviously concern about leaving the back end on an island with Prince down but I don't get it - the results on the field are self-exclamatory.

Trevin Wade and Jayron Hosely combined to allow 11 targets, 216 yards and 4 TD's (every single time Brees threw the ball to either, it was a completion).



So you don't have the front four to apply pressure and you don't have the horses in the secondary to play coverage. The Giants defense had Jasper Brinkley starting at MLB (and he was lining up the defense). A third stringer. They had linebackers lining up on wideouts on the outside (Casillas lined up on Cooks for a few snaps!). Later in the game we sent three and tried to play more coverage - the results were the same.

I have to wonder if at some point along the way here, Spags just has to say fuck it and start being aggressive again. If you're going to get lit on fire, shat on and then lit on fire again by one of the more prolific QB's in the league, you might as well go down throwing everything you have at him with a more aggressive second half game plan.

The Saints spent had a lot of snaps in empty, against no back sets blitzes get declared quite easily. Hard to disguise blitzes against empty.

 

[Kastrioti]

Does it really take you 30 minutes to read 10k words?

My god, I'm so sorry.

And the problem with Kas is that he comments on games he didn't watch. I haven't said a work about the game other that "I remember the Packers looked like shit" which is about as in depth as 75% of the people who post in this thread get anyway.

I focus on only the Lions and watch any other games of interest when I can. So I watch the Lions first and foremost and then see where our divisional rivals are and conference rivals.

We're obviously fucked for this year so I'd like us to play the role of spoiler and look towards the draft. Even if we have he #1 pick at least we won't have the issue of drafting a franchise QB because we already have one.

And I'll casually follow the AFC which isn't hard because the AFC outside of a few teams has been garbage compared to the NFC for the last decade. I've been pointing out for awhile now Andrew Luck has been overrated for the simple fact he's had the luxury of playing in the AFC South. If you trade Luck to the Lions and Stafford to the Colts, the Colts would've made it to the Super Bowl at least once.

As of right now I'm rooting against any NFC North teams, looking towards the draft and rooting for players I like from a distance that do not affect the Lions this year (Cam Newton, Suh and a couple of others)

TLR - Fuck the Packers, Fuck the NFC East, Go Panthers

 

[Futurevoid]

The Saints spent had a lot of snaps in empty, against no back sets blitzes get declared quite easily. Hard to disguise blitzes against empty.

9 sacks on the year. Dead last in the NFL. You're front four isn't getting it done and that is not a new phenomenon. It's been the case though half the season. Pick your poison.

Declare away and take your chances - what was the alternative exactly? Oh right. 7 TD's and 511 yards.

 

[eznark]

Where's Ryan on your list?

I rank by tiers. Because it's the only sane way to do it and the only way that matters. the order within the tiers is meaningless. I also don't change week to week. I revisit it maybe every 4 games and try to look at true talent, not just seasonal performance.

Make everyone better
Brady
Rodgers
Rivers
Roethlisberger

Need more help
Newton
Palmer
Brees
Eli
Peyton
Luck
Dalton
Romo
Wilson
Ryan
Carr

Good fucking luck, Jay
Cutler
Stafford
Bridgwater
Alex Smith
Bortles
Flacco
Tannehill (I believed in youuuuuuuuu)

If you aren't in those buckets you are literally irrelevant.

I focus on only the Lions and watch any other games of interest when I can. So I watch the Lions first and foremost and then see where our divisional rivals are and conference rivals.

I mean, specifically, in the past, you have commented on the performance of the Lions and Lions players (Stafford in particular) without actually having watched said game.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

eznark says Cam Newton is the 5th best QB in the NFL! You heard it here first, folks!

 

[eznark]

eznark says Cam Newton is the 5th best QB in the NFL! You heard it here first, folks!

fixed for clarity! And came up with snappy bucket titles!

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

fixed for clarity! And came up with snappy bucket titles!

I like your system, though. It makes sense. The one thing I'd disagree with is not listing Winston unless you aren't factoring in potential at all.

 

[tmdorsey]

I rank by tiers. Because it's the only sane way to do it and the only way that matters. the order within the tiers is meaningless. I also don't change week to week. I revisit it maybe every 4 games and try to look at true talent, not just seasonal performance.

Make everyone better
Brady
Rodgers
Rivers
Roethlisberger

Need more help
Newton
Palmer
Brees
Eli
Peyton
Luck
Dalton
Romo
Wilson
Ryan
Carr

Good fucking luck, Jay
Cutler
Stafford
Bridgwater
Alex Smith
Bortles
Flacco
Tannehill (I believed in youuuuuuuuu)

If you aren't in those buckets you are literally irrelevant.

I actually have no problems with that list.

 

[Kastrioti]

I mean, specifically, in the past, you have commented on the performance of the Lions and Lions players (Stafford in particular) without actually having watched said game.

Rarely. I've missed a few games but I've watched the majority of Lions games, by any means necessary, as much as I can.

Detroit Lions fans are an endangered species in Southern California until we win our inevitable Super Bowl like the Hawks did, then you'll see more televised games in Southern California.

The one game I missed that I slept through was our comeback against the Falcons in London last season which I could've watched.

 

[Futurevoid]

Ebenezer Samuel ‏@ebenezersamuel 4m4 minutes ago Bronx, NY
Owa Odighizuwa to IR/designated to return.

Still dealing with foot/hamstring injuries. The move is likely the roster spot that will go to JPP here very shortly.

His season is likely over though. He's eligible to return for Week 17 against the Eagles.

 

[eznark]

I like your system, though. It makes sense. The one thing I'd disagree with is not listing Winston unless you aren't factoring in potential at all.

I didn't list any rookies. None of them fit my system yet and really, does it matter? Like, the argument would be Winston would be X tier because he might do Y. I give no fucks.

At that point we can say that Newton would be top tier if the Panthers get three Jerry Rice clones.

I think I probably undervalue Tyrod Taylor and he should probably be in the second tier but to me he is basically a rookie.

 

[Farooq]

I rank by tiers. Because it's the only sane way to do it and the only way that matters. the order within the tiers is meaningless. I also don't change week to week. I revisit it maybe every 4 games and try to look at true talent, not just seasonal performance.

Make everyone better
Brady
Rodgers
Rivers
Roethlisberger

Need more help
Newton
Palmer
Brees
Eli
Peyton
Luck
Dalton
Romo
Wilson
Ryan
Carr

Good fucking luck, Jay
Cutler
Stafford
Bridgwater
Alex Smith
Bortles
Flacco
Tannehill (I believed in youuuuuuuuu)

If you aren't in those buckets you are literally irrelevant.


I mean, specifically, in the past, you have commented on the performance of the Lions and Lions players (Stafford in particular) without actually having watched said game.

Your evaluation of Romo is terrible.

 

[eznark]

Your evaluation of Romo is terrible.

5th best QB in the league is terrible!

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

I didn't list any rookies. None of them fit my system yet and really, does it matter? Like, the argument would be Winston would be X tier because he might do Y. I give no fucks.

At that point we can say that Newton would be top tier if the Panthers get three Jerry Rice clones.

I think I probably undervalue Tyrod Taylor and he should probably be in the second tier but to me he is basically a rookie.

That makes sense. I forgot about Mariota and Tyrod as well, both of which should make the list next year if all goes well.

My biggest concern with Tyrod is health, as I said from the beginning.

 

[Konka]

I focus on only the Lions and watch any other games of interest when I can. So I watch the Lions first and foremost and then see where our divisional rivals are and conference rivals.

We're obviously fucked for this year so I'd like us to play the role of spoiler and look towards the draft. Even if we have he #1 pick at least we won't have the issue of drafting a franchise QB because we already have one.

:jnc

 

[ShaneB]

Go Panthers, would love to see them get a big win this week.

 

[Draxal]

Interesting considering Fewell was consistently taken to task for not being more aggressive in his game planning and for a "lack of adjustments" as it were. Here we have a pretty clear example of that very thing.

Even moreso considering Spags knows /exactly/ what he has with this roster. It wasn't like the defensive breakdowns were kept to a minimum in the first half. Brees already had 4 TD's at half time. You're telling me there was no introspection in the locker room at half time that perhaps trying to play coverage with the likes of Wade/Hosely and Casillas maybe wasn't a good idea? The Saints offense sat in 5 wide formations and no backs on a large percentage of their passing plays. Zero respect for the pass rush...so lets keep rushing 4! Or even 3 and try to play more coverage.

Listen, I like many of the things Spags has done thus far this year with a completely undermanned defense but its laughable to ignore the ineptitude at the coaching level in this particular game.

If you have Brinkely starting yes. And last year's team was infinitely more talented than this year's giants d. I mean you said it yourself, they had a third string linebacker calling the plays ...

 

[KingBroly]

I rank by tiers. Because it's the only sane way to do it and the only way that matters. the order within the tiers is meaningless. I also don't change week to week. I revisit it maybe every 4 games and try to look at true talent, not just seasonal performance.

Make everyone better
Brady
Rodgers
Rivers
Roethlisberger

Need more help
Newton
Palmer
Brees
Eli
Peyton
Luck
Dalton
Romo
Wilson
Ryan
Carr

Good fucking luck, Jay
Cutler
Stafford
Bridgwater
Alex Smith
Bortles
Flacco
Tannehill (I believed in youuuuuuuuu)

If you aren't in those buckets you are literally irrelevant.

I mean, specifically, in the past, you have commented on the performance of the Lions and Lions players (Stafford in particular) without actually having watched said game.

I'd put Flacco in the 'needs more help category' personally. He is money in the postseason. The defense just needs to exist to help him get there, but Baltimore has none right now.

 

[Greg]

Go Panthers, would love to see them get a big win this week.

you just cheer for whoever plays against the Packers

 

[BlackGhost]

Remember remember the 5th of November.

Are you referring to the anonymous videos? We just watched the latest one in class and few others.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

you just cheer for whoever plays against the Packers

Dat shane-ez beef!

 

[eznark]

I'd put Flacco in the 'needs more help category' personally. He is money in the postseason. The defense just needs to exist to help him get there, but Baltimore has none right now.

Admittedly he is a tough one to figure. So is Matt Ryan. I think they belong in their own "I think these guys probably suck but it's hard to prove" category.

 

[ShaneB]

you just cheer for whoever plays against the Packers

Exactly.

 

[Dragon]

Are you referring to the anonymous videos? We just watched the latest one in class and few others.

Thought it was a reference to Bonfire Night in the UK...

Exactly.

Canadians hate Hoosiers confirmed.

 

[eznark]

Dat shane-ez beef!

 

[Nemesis121]

Still dealing with foot/hamstring injuries. The move is likely the roster spot that will go to JPP here very shortly.

His season is likely over though. He's eligible to return for Week 17 against the Eagles.

That IR tag will change to done for the season, welcome back JPp..

 

[jakncoke]

Rarely. I've missed a few games but I've watched the majority of Lions games, by any means necessary, as much as I can.

Detroit Lions fans are an endangered species in Southern California until we win our inevitable Super Bowl like the Hawks did, then you'll see more televised games in Southern California.

The one game I missed that I slept through was our comeback against the Falcons in London last season which I could've watched.

through gifs right

 

[tmdorsey]

Admittedly he is a tough one to figure. So is Matt Ryan. I think they belong in their own "I think these guys probably suck but it's hard to prove" category.

I wouldn't say Ryan or Flacco suck, they could be better though.

 

[tmdorsey]

Alright NFL-GAF let's get into this debate they've been talking about.

Is a Hot Dog a sandwich? Yes or No?


I say absolutely not!

 

[Futurevoid]

If you have Brinkely starting yes. And last year's team was infinitely more talented than this year's giants d. I mean you said it yourself, they had a third string linebacker calling the plays ...

I think "infinitely" is a strong word. I don't disagree there was more talent but looking at the the 2014 starters - the gulf doesn't appear nearly as big as you make it sound.

Do you really consider Spencer Paysinger, Jacquain Williams upgrades over Casillas and JT Thomas? I'd say that's a lateral move at best. McClain was a solid MLB in Beason's absence but couldn't cover for shit. Good descriptor for Unga, really. Jameel at least had the intellect/brains part of the game down.

JPP is only now just returning. The front is nearly identical otherwise. Jenkins is a year older. Mike Patterson is gone but played spot duty. Hankins, Kuhn, Bromley, Ayers, Moore, etc. were all here. We added Selvie and Kerry Wynn. Wynn's been a nice run stopper for us. Just not a very good pass rusher.

On the secondary front - Antrel Rolle on the downside of his career is gone. He's tearing things up in Chicago though! (*sarcasm*). Bennett Jackson was on the practice squad last season and Berhe played spot duty. Both are on IR this year. A rookie at safety is starting which we knew was going to be spotty and Landon was always going to have growing pains. He's played above the level I thought he would though. Prince and DRC still starting. Wade and Hosely were on the team. Chandler Fenner, Chykie Brown, Mike Harris, Zack Bowman and Quintin Demps were the difference makers last year to deserve the "infinitely more talented" label?

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Alright NFL-GAF let's get into this debate they've been talking about.

Is a Hot Dog a sandwich? Yes or No?


I say absolutely not!

No

 

[jakncoke]

Alright NFL-GAF let's get into this debate they've been talking about.

Is a Hot Dog a sandwich? Yes or No?


I say absolutely not!

Nope

 

[eznark]

Alright NFL-GAF let's get into this debate they've been talking about.

Is a Hot Dog a sandwich? Yes or No?


I say absolutely not!

Is it 1998 already?

 

[jbug617]

Alright NFL-GAF let's get into this debate they've been talking about.

Is a Hot Dog a sandwich? Yes or No?


I say absolutely not!

no

 

[Man God]

Both hot dogs and hamburgers are sandwiches by definition. But they also transcend that idea and have become their own thing. Yet they are also the name of the meat component of said sandwich they have transcended.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Admittedly he is a tough one to figure. So is Matt Ryan. I think they belong in their own "I think these guys probably suck but it's hard to prove" category.

Flacco sucks. Look at what the Rats have become without a dominant defense backing them. The Ravens have scored 190 points this season - Justin Tucker accounts for 74 of them.

 

[jakncoke]

Flacco throws too much on a wing and prayer on whatever non mechanically correct attempt to ever be great level or consistently good

 

[tmdorsey]

I don't know. I've seen Flacco make good throws and decisions in big time moments in multiple years. I don't think you just lose that ability or it becomes a fluke. Especially when you do it in the playoffs.

 

[eznark]

Flacco sucks. Look at what the Rats have become without a dominant defense backing them. The Ravens have scored 190 points this season - Justin Tucker accounts for 74 of them.

Clearly I agree!

Saying Ryan sucks is probably too harsh but he has definitely plateaued and he has crazy blow up games every so often. I wouldn't commit to him being on my team long term.

 

[Farooq]

5th best QB in the league is terrible!

Saying he doesn't make players around him better. Because he is in an offense that features isolation routes? Receivers obviously need to win their matchups. Rodgers isn't above that as evidenced by the game against Denver.

For all the accolades Dallas' o-line receives they aren't as dominant is pass pro, Romo's pocket mobility makes their protection better. He gets them in the right runs.

Romo identifies coverages and eliminates reads as fast as any QB, as a result the entire offense is better. Identifies pressure and sets up protections accordingly. Less and less do you see him play outside the structure of the offense

He is an efficient passer, who plays with timing, throws with antcipation, and has amazing ball location.

This is a guy who got Miles Austin and Laurent Robinson huge 5 years deals.

Romo is Rivers/Ben tier.