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[The_Darkest_Red]

Saying he doesn't make players around him better. Because he is in an offense that features isolation routes? Receivers obviously need to win their matchups. Rodgers isn't above that as evidenced by the game against Denver.

For all the accolades Dallas' o-line receives they aren't as dominant is pass pro, Romo's pocket mobility makes their protection better. He gets them in the right runs.

Romo identifies coverages and eliminates reads as fast as any QB, as a result the entire offense is better. Identifies pressure and sets up protectections accordingly. Less and less do you see him play outside the structure of the offense

He is an efficient passer, who plays with timing, throws with antcipation, and has amazing ball location.

This is a guy who got Miles Austin and Laurent Robinson huge 5 years deals.

Romo is Rivers/Ben tier.

I agree with this. He proved it last year especially.

 

[Striker]

I think "infinitely" is a strong word. I don't disagree there was more talent but looking at the the 2014 starters - the gulf doesn't appear nearly as big as you make it sound.

I would say Mike Patterson, even at the end of his career, still had more to offer than Kuhn has shown. And I thought Bowman, Brown, and Harris played okay at corner. Much more than what Hosley and Wade has done. And Safeties were poor last year, but they get eaten alive against decent QB's this year, too. That's because both are SS's and neither can cover much.

 

[Man God]

Romo/Rivers/Ben are all on about the same level for me as well. All time great QBs that make bad teams good and good teams great.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Clearly I agree!

Saying Ryan sucks is probably too harsh but he has definitely plateaued and he has crazy blow up games every so often. I wouldn't commit to him being on my team long term.

I think the question that should be asked is what level of quarterback do you need to win?

In the last ten years of Super Bowls there hasn't been one QB that has won in spite of his teams' deficiencies. Peyton Manning's only championship ring came when his team soldified itself in all facets during its playoff run.

Flacco won a Super Bowl because his play was the final piece of a team that was playing at a championship level everywhere else.

Is Matt Ryan going to win a Super Bowl with that shit show defense he has? Not likely. That said I think you CAN win a Super Bowl with Ryan as part of a balanced talented team.

 

[Spinluck]

Luck is in the, "should stop throwing INTs/Punts" tier.

 

[eznark]

Saying he doesn't make players around him better. Because he is in an offense that features isolation routes? Receivers obviously need to win their matchups. Rodgers isn't above that as evidenced by the game against Denver.

For all the accolades Dallas' o-line receives they aren't as dominant is pass pro, Romo's pocket mobility makes their protection better. He gets them in the right runs.

Romo identifies coverages and eliminates reads as fast as any QB, as a result the entire offense is better. Identifies pressure and sets up protectections accordingly. Less and less do you see him play outside the structure of the offense

He is an efficient passer, who plays with timing, throws with antcipation, and has amazing ball location.

This is a guy who got Miles Austin and Laurent Robinson huge 5 years deals.

Romo is Rivers/Ben tier.

Fair. I disagree, but not strongly. Last year was a pretty clear anomaly and given he has played for 12 season I didn't let it too strongly impact my overall evaluation. I don't think he was as good as he was last year.

 

[eznark]

I think the question that should be asked is what level of quarterback do you need to win?

In the last ten years of Super Bowls there hasn't been one QB that has won in spite of his teams' deficiencies. Peyton Manning's only championship ring came when his team soldified itself in all facets during its playoff run.

Flacco won a Super Bowl because his play was the final piece of a team that was playing at a championship level everywhere else.

Is Matt Ryan going to win a Super Bowl with that shit show defense he has? Not likely. That said I think you CAN win a Super Bowl with Ryan as part of a balanced talented team.

You can win a Super Bowl with Joe Namath and Trent Dilfer. It all depends on the peculiarities of the time in which you play. The ebb and flow of o v. d is constant. I don't think that's a useful question at all.

 

[Farooq]

9 sacks on the year. Dead last in the NFL. You're front four isn't getting it done and that is not a new phenomenon. It's been the case though half the season. Pick your poison.

Declare away and take your chances - what was the alternative exactly? Oh right. 7 TD's and 511 yards.

I wonder what would have happened if the Giants came into the game planning more pressure. I mean the Saints gameplanned to be in no back sets. I guess antcipating that the 4 front wouldn't get home and Giants wouldn't bring much pressure. There has to be a reason they didn't anticipate pressure from Giants.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

I think the question that should be asked is what level of quarterback do you need to win?

In the last ten years of Super Bowls there hasn't been one QB that has won in spite of his teams' deficiencies. Peyton Manning's only championship ring came when his team soldified itself in all facets during its playoff run.

Flacco won a Super Bowl because his play was the final piece of a team that was playing at a championship level everywhere else.

Is Matt Ryan going to win a Super Bowl with that shit show defense he has? Not likely. That said I think you CAN win a Super Bowl with Ryan as part of a balanced talented team.

This is exactly what I've been saying for awhile. QB is still the most important position on the field but it takes a team to win a SB.

The question then becomes how great does the team have to be around a QB for them to win it all? That depends on the specific QB.

Colin Kaepernick almost won a SB just a few years ago, and he lost it to Joe Flacco... That says it all, really.

 

[BaltimoreLarry]

I'd put Flacco in the 'needs more help category' personally. He is money in the postseason. The defense just needs to exist to help him get there, but Baltimore has none right now.

That's the problem with Flacco is his only perceived strength is "he's money in the postseason". Problem is, he really isn't. He did that once. Throw out his one year run, where he clearly made a pact with the devil, and his numbers look like this:

11 Games 180 of 321 ( 56%) 2083 yds (189 yds/gm) 14 TDs 10 INTs

So, he averages 189 yds 1.2 TDs and .9 INTs a game. That's pretty damn pedestrian. The defense has made Joe get wins in the postseason, but other than in 2012, he's never really done much.

All I know is what I see from watching him, and it's just not a very talented, or smart quarterback. Rarely audibles. Throws off his back foot when he doesn't need to. No touch. True, the talent around him is poor right now, don't get me wrong, but the throws aren't there. Yeah, an Anquan Boldin might make a few more spectacular catches on those awful throws, but he's not making Flacco a good QB. People joke about the DPI Flacco ball, but really, it's just his consistency at underthrowing that makes it possible.

But at the core of this, is that we're talking about a QB who may or may not be fair, who may or may not suck, and meanwhile, he's one of the highest paid players in the league.

 

[Man God]

I wonder what would have happened if the Giants came into the game planning more pressure. I mean the Saints gameplanned to be in no back sets. I guess antcipating that the 4 front wouldn't get home and Giants wouldn't bring much pressure. There has to be a reason they didn't anticipate pressure from Giants.

They didn't anticipate pressure from the Giants because they are dead last in pass rush.

Playoff Flacco isn't about the numbers, it's more about almost always playing the Pats hard and keeping them from making the Super Bowl almost every year.

 

[chuckddd]

I like Tony Romo, but all time great qb, he is not. He's lacking the very important 'clutch gene'.

 

[Dragon]

Luck is in the, "should stop throwing INTs/Punts" tier.

They didn't anticipate pressure from the Giants because they are dead last in pass rush.

Playoff Flacco isn't about the numbers, it's more about almost always playing the Pats hard and keeping them from making the Super Bowl almost every year.

If he didn't throw that awful interception last year, they would have won again.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

You can win a Super Bowl with Joe Namath and Trent Dilfer. It all depends on the peculiarities of the time in which you play. The ebb and flow of o v. d is constant. I don't think that's a useful question at all.

I disagree. I feel there is a bare minimum that must be achieved team wide for a Super Bowl winner.

Why have we not seen a QB carry his team to a victory in the Super Bowl? Rodgers is the best QB in the league but for the past few years has been sitting on a shitshow defense and hasn't been able to win a Bowl.

The archetype, Peyton Manning, has distilled football into a science and yet was NEVER able to carry the team to a Bowl win.

Guys like Wilson, Flacco, and even Eli Manning all won Super Bowls with their clubs despite consistently putting up erratic and in some cases abysmal numbers. Colin Kaepernick is borderline OOL this season and had his team a throw away from a championship. Do these players not throw out the idea that a level of eliteness from your QB is necessary to win?

 

[BaltimoreLarry]

Playoff Flacco isn't about the numbers, it's more about almost always playing the Pats hard and keeping them from making the Super Bowl almost every year.

He's 2-2 against the Pats in the playoffs and in one of the wins, he 4-10 for 34 yards with 0 TDs and 1 INT. In one of the wins.

Playoff Joe!

 

[Draxal]

I would say Mike Patterson, even at the end of his career, still had more to offer than Kuhn has shown. And I thought Bowman, Brown, and Harris played okay at corner. Much more than what Hosley and Wade has done. And Safeties were poor last year, but they get eaten alive against decent QB's this year, too. That's because both are SS's and neither can cover much.

To add to that.

They didn't have a healthy JPP, Ayers, Anukamura (slightly under 50) for most of the season, Rolle wasn't the Rolle we had, but he's been better than Collins/Merriweather last year.

I don't think any Giants fan understands the Kuhn thing at all, while is he still starting or even on the team.

 

[eznark]

I disagree.

Not with me. I just said you can win with Namath and Dilfer. Clearly there is no floor.

Also, who cares? When we talk about who the best LT's in the game are it doesn't always devolve into wins and championships. Stop jacking off the narrative.

 

[Man God]

He's 2-2 against the Pats in the playoffs and in one of the wins, he 4-10 for 34 yards with 0 TDs and 1 INT. In one of the wins.

Only one pick! That's all-star caliber play!

Spoiler

I know the numbers don't back it up but everytime I see the Ravens in the playoffs as a Pats fan I know we're going to lose. Those two losses by Flacco were down to the last play.

 

[Line_HTX]

Hmmm... Looks like the NFL has no plans on any changes to Super Bowl LI next year for Houston following the HERO ordinance that failed to pass in this city on Tuesday.

 

[jakncoke]

This page is like preview mode for off season mode but we are only in week 9 lol

 

[Farooq]

Fair. I disagree, but not strongly. Last year was a pretty clear anomaly and given he has played for 12 season I didn't let it too strongly impact my overall evaluation. I don't think he was as good as he was last year.

Understandable, but I am considering how limited he was physically by his back and I think it is a testament to his game. He didn't practice on Wednesday already because of the herniation, then he to deal with two traverse process fractures on top of a rib fracture.

Not easy things to deal with.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Not with me. I just said you can win with Namath and Dilfer. Clearly there is no floor.

Also, who cares? When we talk about who the best LT's in the game are it doesn't always devolve into wins and championships. Stop jacking off the narrative.

Never!

 

[Godslay]

He's 2-2 against the Pats in the playoffs and in one of the wins, he 4-10 for 34 yards with 0 TDs and 1 INT. In one of the wins.

Playoff Joe!

I know it's always what ifs, but that Ravens offense had the Patriots beat last year. That goddamn secondary was serving TDs that day though.

If they had a decent secondary last year they would have been 3-1. Offense showed up that day. Flacco and Forsett played well.

 

[Line_HTX]

This page is like preview mode for off season mode but we are only in week 9 lol

Race to tank, but there can only be one tank.

 

[captive]

producer for the 10-2 show is an eagles fan, one host asked him who eagles fans want next year at QB his answer "anyone but Bradford"

yankeehater am cry.

 

[ampere]

Yea for as good as Rivers is, it's sad how shitty his team tends to do. Is it a terrible GM, coaching, both, injury luck, all of the above?

 

[Man God]

I know it's always what ifs, but that Ravens offense had the Patriots beat last year. That goddamn secondary was serving TDs that day though.

If they had a decent secondary last year they would have been 3-1. Offense showed up that day. Flacco and Forsett played well.

The other loss was due to a missed chip in field goal.

 

[eznark]

This page is like preview mode for off season mode but we are only in week 9 lol

Holy shit, show me this off-season football thread where they talk about football. I haven't seen it in like 4 years.

 

[jakncoke]

producer for the 10-2 show is an eagles fan, one host asked him who eagles fans want next year at QB his answer "anyone but Bradford"

yankeehater am cry.

pepiope is a bigger bradford fan

Holy shit, show me this off-season football thread where they talk about football. I haven't seen it in like 4 years.

ok detective ez you got me there.

 

[Line_HTX]

producer for the 10-2 show is an eagles fan, one host asked him who eagles fans want next year at QB his answer "anyone but Bradford"

yankeehater am cry.

Thank God someone on radio said that.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Yea for as good as Marino was, it's sad how shitty his team tended to do. Was it a terrible GM, coaching, both, injury luck, all of the above?

Fixed for my struggle.

 

[BaltimoreLarry]

I'm sure this got posted, but if not, it's a gallery of all the NFL locker rooms.

http://imgur.com/gallery/xVKPX/

The worst, in my opinion is the Redskins. FedEx field is only like 17 years old!

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Yea for as good as Rivers is, it's sad how shitty his team tends to do. Is it a terrible GM, coaching, both, injury luck, all of the above?

Rivers is the poster boy for a career fucked by a lack of team talent.

He really should have pushed harder to be traded.

 

[DMczaf]

I'm sure this got posted, but if not, it's a gallery of all the NFL locker rooms.

http://imgur.com/gallery/xVKPX/

The worst, in my opinion is the Redskins. FedEx field is only like 17 years old!

BG and Kave have been in all of them #sluts

 

[Dutch Gronk]

Patriots are winning coin tosses at next-to-impossible rate https://t.co/jLBpiNeDz3 https://t.co/jXQZpe07RF

Bill found a way to predict coin tosses. Must be cheatin

 

[BaltimoreLarry]

I know it's always what ifs, but that Ravens offense had the Patriots beat last year. That goddamn secondary was serving TDs that day though.

If they had a decent secondary last year they would have been 3-1. Offense showed up that day. Flacco and Forsett played well.

And if Raheem Moore was better in coverage, the Ravens would probably be having Tyrod Time right now.

 

[Line_HTX]

Kave's Twitter is boring. Mean streets of Canada lol.

 

[Farooq]

They didn't anticipate pressure from the Giants because they are dead last in pass rush.

Playoff Flacco isn't about the numbers, it's more about almost always playing the Pats hard and keeping them from making the Super Bowl almost every year.

They didn't antcipate blitzes is what I meant.
Obviously a lot has to do with scouting, and I am interested to see the numbers on how often Spags blitzes certain formations and on what down and distance. Especially against no back sets.


Edit: Anyway, my original point I failed to make in my reply to FV is that since blitzes get declared easily against empty sets, and Brees was already picking apart coverages, it doesn't seem like blitzing would have made a difference. Especially if you don't have a back end to hold up.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Bill found a way to predict coin tosses. Must be cheatin

Let's use a statistical anomaly to deflect our franchise's more egregious crimes.

Brilliant!

 

[Futurevoid]

And I thought Bowman, Brown, and Harris played okay at corner.

Ugh. All three were garbage. Bowman being the best of the bunch and he even got benched and ended up primarily on ST until necessity forced him back into the line-up.

How Hosely is still a Giants blows my mind. After his play in last years preseason and the suspension - I thought for sure he'd be cut. Instead we have this moron leaping around out of position 90% of the time. If he's one the roster next season - shoot me.

I don't think any Giants fan understands the Kuhn thing at all, while is he still starting or even on the team.

Apply my Hosely statement to Kuhn as well.

Something that bothers me - I can't fathom the thinking behind the running back rotation. It's baffling. Jennings comes into the game and breaks off some fantastic runs on one of the later drives. The next series? Andre Willliams. Later, it's Vereen putting up some yardage and then they slot in Jennings. Might we want to stay with a hot hand for a little while? Is that too much to ask?

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Bill found a way to predict coin tosses. Must be cheatin

That is the most logical explanation given the odds, yes.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

Let's use a statistical anomaly to deflect our franchise's more egregious crimes.

Brilliant!

 

[chuckddd]

Let's use a statistical anomaly to deflect our franchise's more egregious crimes.

Brilliant!

The Trump Way.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

That is the most logical explanation given the odds, yes.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Ugh. All three were garbage. Bowman being the best of the bunch and he even got benched and ended up primarily on ST until necessity forced him back into the line-up.

How Hosely is still a Giants blows my mind. After his play in last years preseason and the suspension - I thought for sure he'd be cut. Instead we have this moron leaping around out of position 90% of the time.

Doesn't something have to give Future?

According to Giants' fans the team has next to no talent on defense with little in the pipeline, has had two back to back awful seasons (and is currently at .500 now) yet still has the same coach and GM?

 

[Line_HTX]

Colts fans on average the most drunk fans in the AFCS apparently.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Bill found a way to predict coin tosses. Must be cheatin

Bill just quicker than other coaches to realise that tails never fails.

 

[Godslay]

And if Raheem Moore was better in coverage, the Ravens would probably be having Tyrod Time right now.

Sure, but the common thread between those two games is that Flacco played pretty well. He does have a some Super Joe in him come playoffs. He's obviously not doing it all by himself when they win, but he's definitely a positive.

 

[Draxal]

Doesn't something have to give Future?

According to Giants' fans the team has next to no talent on defense with little in the pipeline, has had two back to back awful seasons (and is currently at .500 now) yet still has the same coach and GM?

Coach isn't the problem.

GM is. But the Giant's have only had 3 gm's since 1979 (Young/Accorsi/Reese).

Specifically, the Giant's have been shit since Gettleman went to Carolina, and we repalced him with Marc Ross.

 

[Bread]

The league needs to stop allowing Bill to bring his own coin.