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NFL Offseason Thread 2015 |OT| All of our teams suck!
- Thread starter RBH
- Start date
ryutaro's mama
Member
So cdy, I know you're still full of emotion but why do you want to fire your OC?
He didn't run a poor system, in fact he got a lot out of a passing offense without a standout wideout.
And if you did get rid of him, who do you get?
Only way I could see it is if the locker room loses faith in his play calling completely but, idk...his playcalling was good enough to get you to 2 SBs...Are we even having this discussion if you win that game? <shrugs>
Alligatorjandro
Banned
I don't think they let Solder go this year. He wasn't really that bad this year.
He was simply awful to average this season.
For sure. I think Easley will be a nice player for the Pats next season, but they need a guy who can stop the run/be dominant in the running game. Love me some Wilfork, but he's clearly at the end of his career.
The issue is I'm not sure they will have the cap space for it this off season. This is where they will have to use the draft, but I don't have the most faith in Belichick when it comes to pass rushing DEs.
Agreed on this. I would go interior oline then left tackle as the priorities for the oline, and DE then DT for the dline. Would love for the Pats to find a good athletic freak outside linebacker. Even if they just get really great run stuffers through the draft or free agency that improves the defense greatly.
Definitely DT, Vince is definitely running out of gas, if he hasn't already...Solder played well in the playoffs, but he really regressed during the regular season...I'm not sure they are bringing him back, may need to draft a future LT and bring in mid-budget vet to replace Solder for one year, not sure who is available though. I'm sure a mid-round pick will go a LB.
Please no WRs drafted in the first 5 rounds.
...but as you say, not surprising.
Crazy what a year does. Everyone is screaming WR before the last draft now it's completely different.
I don't care. I'm sick of him getting credit for our passing offense when a gigantic chunk of it is Russell improvising on broken-down plays. I'm disgusted by him throwing Lockette under the bus when 1) three guys screwed up on that play (at least) and 2) he's the fucking play caller, he should take that bullet for his guy.
Lots of what we've done on offense is in spite of him, not because of him. If we hand the ball off every single snap in the NFCCG we win that game by 14 points, but we have to fucking throw it.
I had to repost for all the 50 page friends!
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
ryutaro's mama
Member
The bolded I agree with. He should have taken the hit on that for sure, if for no other reason than guys knowing that he is gonna own the call, good or bad outcome. You NEVER throw the player under the bus publicly.
Having said that, as you said, he is the play caller but he isn't running the route. Does he get to call Lockette out in private if not public? Does he get to call out Kearse for blowing the rub on a precision play?
When does lack of execution fall on the players and not the OC? If you want to say they are great in spite of him but kill him in moments like this, I don't think that is fair.
Ninja Scooter
Member
No more dead cops
Yep. It's the same thing with the breast cancer awareness company. They pocket most of the "donations." Sure the company helps a few people, but it's still greedy corporations taking advantage of suckers and what a charity actually is.
ryutaro's mama
Member
DMczaf Bat signal post.
Definitely DT, Vince is definitely running out of gas, if he hasn't already...Solder played well in the playoffs, but he really regressed during the regular season...I'm not sure they are bringing him back, may need to draft a future LT and bring in mid-budget vet to replace Solder for one year, not sure who is available though. I'm sure a mid-round pick will go a LB.
Please no WRs drafted in the first 5 rounds.
There's no way that Nate Solder isn't on the Patriots in 2015. It's highly unlikely that he isn't their starting left tackle for the foreseeable future, as well. They need a guard or two, but they're fine at tackle, especially with Marcus Cannon and Cameron Fleming providing depth.
They need a defensive tackle, ideally a big run-plugger, to pair with Dominique Easley for the future. Ideally that tackle will be able to spend a year under Wilfork learning the system, but that's far from a certainty. They also need another pass rusher opposite Chandler Jones because Ninkovich isn't good enough to be the every snap starter, but I don't know if Bill views that as a priority.
They badly need a running back in my opinion. They have depth at the position with Blount, Gray, Gaffney, Bolden, and White all signed, but none of them are surefire starters.
They need another wide receiver because they can't assume Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce, or Brian Tyms will provide anything meaningful in 2015. If Kevin White or Devante Parker is there at #32, I'd be fine with them taking one of them, even with their cursed WR selection in the past.
I know we just resigned Cannon mid-season...he didn't play that well when he was in there, but he was usually in as a guard when he played poorly, when he was at his usual position of tackle he played much better. Put him in at LT for now and maybe sign a low budget vet and let them see who can take over through training camp/preseason?
Other option may be to switch seabass to LT and put cannon/vet on RT...but I doubt they want to do that...Vollmer might be the best RT in the league and he may not transistion well to the left side.
Any scenario that involves letting Solder walk, has to include them drafting a tackle though.
Combined with our morbid ability to draft WRs and it is a recipe for disaster if they use a higher round pick on one.
Other option may be to switch seabass to LT and put cannon/vet on RT...but I doubt they want to do that...Vollmer might be the best RT in the league and he may not transistion well to the left side.
Any scenario that involves letting Solder walk, has to include them drafting a tackle though.
Combined with our morbid ability to draft WRs and it is a recipe for disaster if they use a higher round pick on one.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Kevin White at 32? There is no way that happens is there?
I don't think so. I think it's more likely he goes in the top five than lasting to the end of the 1st, but I also never thought Cordarrelle Patterson would be there for the Patriots in 2013, so it's not impossible.
That's terribly flawed logic, though. Whether you blame the evaluation process, the scheme, the players themselves, it doesn't make any sense to avoid picking a wide receiver just because past picks haven't worked out. If Odell Beckham had lasted to the Patriots in last year's draft, would he have been a bust because Bill drafted him? Of course not. Having said that, the rebuttal is that he wouldn't have chosen him in the first place because his WR evaluation is always out of whack. If there's a receiver who can contribute day one available, there's no reason to pass on him because of past failures.
As much as I hate to say it, with that game he had in the SB, I think the chances of resigning him went from about 20% to .1%, hate to see him go, but Belichick won't spend big money on a RB and somebody will pay him significantly more than NE will.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
I could see him going to Houston
Before the Super Bowl I would have said they would 100% be able to afford him. Now...probably not.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I like to think that they got those "no more" commercial reactions by showing those people anime for the first time.
Well, he does deserve credit because the vast majority of your pass offense is a result of the run game and Marshawn. Whether it breaks down or not, it's predominately a jump ball passing game that benefits from a lot of man looks and mismatches.
You can't discount Bevell's work on that, nor his timing of the calls to take advantage of things like this.
He should kill Lockette, Kearse, and Russell in private (along with whoever else screwed up) - of course.
The textbook says you throw there, based on the coverage the Pats were in (even though I think if you're an NFL play-caller, a little more thought should go into it than what it says on your damn chart) - even though I think it was still a terrible call. If you're going to throw it, don't throw it into the heart of the damn defense. Run a route that goes in and then breaks outside where the coverage is sparse or something.
As for the lack of execution thing, that depends on your point of view I guess. One could say it ultimately falls on the coaches for not getting their players ready, but I don't fully buy that. These guys (the players) are pros, they're getting paid too.
The reasons I want him gone are:
1) To call our passing game remedial is an insult to remedial things everywhere
2) He consistently goes away from Beast Mode in key short yardage situations
3) He threw Lockette under the bus
I'd be surprised if he got past 31.
Don't think I agree. If you call a quick slant, and nothing is open, so Russell pulls it down and rolls out, does Bevell get credit for everything that happens from then on? Even if it's essentially just Russell and the receivers running around randomly trying to get someone open, playground-style?
The Pats are going to have to make some decisions with their receivers. Dobson is big and has potential but can't stay healthy. Amendola has a big contract and his production could be replaced by Boyce.
I'd also like the Pats to not dick around and just give Gostowski his contract. I don't want to root for a team without an automatic kicker. He's huge for them.
I'd also like the Pats to not dick around and just give Gostowski his contract. I don't want to root for a team without an automatic kicker. He's huge for them.
Duxxy3
Member
Not sure we can get someone to to a better job than him right now though. The OG position needs more help than OT.
Are you saying "No More"?
That's not how the Patriots do business though. I believe he is under contract regardless if it's my understanding.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Funny you should say that, I re-watched that play and if Wilson changes his progressions (I know the play was drawn up as as a bang bang play to Lockette) Lynch jukes his man on the corner route to the edge of the endzone. He had the step on his man. Yeah, I mean, play action, draw, read option, pass to the corner of the endzone...anything but a shot into the teeth of the defense, where even if it's not picked like it was, it can be tipped into an interception...it was a high risk call but not impossible to make IF Kearse correctly jams his man.
I can see this point of view too. I'm not completely closed off to it.
Fair enough. As a casual viewer of their offense, I didn't think he was that terrible for you guys but hey, I don't watch them that closely all year to know.
Umm, yeah. If there is any team drafting WR in the first round, it's probably Seattle.
Fair point, but I have zero faith in whatever process they have in evaluating talent at the position. Every receiver they have taken since 2003 has been a bust. And it isn't like we let these guys go and then they go on to have great career's elsewhere. Brandon Tate is the best receiver they have drafted since then. They have even essentially redshirted guys for a season (Taylor Price) and they still can't catch on. I would love Dobson to come out next year and have a great year, but I don't have much faith, I hope I'm wrong though.
And I acknowledge they did draft Edelman, but he was a 6th round pick that was an experiment, no one could have imagined him becoming what he did. I'm fine with late round projects...I just have no faith in high round picks used on WR.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Duxxy3
Member
He is under contract yes. 7+ million dollar hit IIRC. I don't think they have anybody on the roster, aside from vollmer, that could protect that left side.
The one thing that I just don't like about Solder is a complete lack of a mean streak. He's the biggest guy on the line, but at times it looks like he doesn't give a shit. I never get that feeling from the other 4.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
The patriots haven't really drafted the top receivers though. They always take someone no ones heard of.
He is fine. My point is he isn't being signed to that kind of deal again. Pats will lowball him, someone else will probably pay a bit more because he was a Patriot.
I don't understand the discussion about letting Solder go. He's so far away from being a bad lineman it's ridiculous. He only gets killed because when he misses a block, he misses it in spectacular, embarrassing fashion. Solder is one of the biggest athletic freaks on the offensive line in the entire league. The idea that the Patriots could draft another tackle at #32 and plug him in and he'd be an improvement on Solder is just silly. Look at the struggles of Matt Kalil, Luke Joeckel, and Eric Fisher. They've all been big disappointments and there are no prospects available at #32 who come close to their potential.
Ignoring the throwing Lockette under the bus thing, if Pete were to consistently overrule him anytime Bevell called a pass in a short yardage situation (where running is actually an option with the clock situation) in the 4th quarter, I'd be fine with him staying around.
You can go back to the Cowboys game earlier in the year. We're down 1 score and have the ball with over 3 minutes left (i.e. including the two minute warning). Plenty of time to run the ball. What does Bevell do? Three straight passes, and we turn it over on downs in 4 plays. Game over.
Passing game sucks but it's good enough to win us games usually, it seems.
Lynch won't be here forever
The official Chip in my book!
I've been saying that all year. He still looks really bad when it happens, and his upside is relatively marginal. I'm just stating that his value is a bit high when looking at his paystub going into the 2015 campaign. I doubt he gets something like that again from the Patriots.
Duxxy3
Member
Aside from a possible restructuring for Amendola, I don't think the Patriots are changing anything at WR.
Running back will be interesting. Lot of movement at that position. Ridley will come cheap, wherever he goes. History of fumbles and a bad knee injury. Vereen will be looking for money, and probably will be moving on. Will be interesting to see if White is able to step up. He was redshirted his first year because of a logjam at the position (vereen was treated the same way his first year).
Offensive guard is the position I would like to see improved the most. Defensive line after that.
I don't. He was getting worse and wouldn't take a pay cut. It's his own fault.
Running back will be interesting. Lot of movement at that position. Ridley will come cheap, wherever he goes. History of fumbles and a bad knee injury. Vereen will be looking for money, and probably will be moving on. Will be interesting to see if White is able to step up. He was redshirted his first year because of a logjam at the position (vereen was treated the same way his first year).
Offensive guard is the position I would like to see improved the most. Defensive line after that.
I don't. He was getting worse and wouldn't take a pay cut. It's his own fault.