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NFL Offseason Thread 2015 |OT2| Home of Baseball, Anime, Cricket, and Magic Johnson

G

Godslay

Banned
Tom Penny said:
It's hilarious you keep mentioning this like it's annually...and they already paid him that money whether he's there or not so it has zero impact on negotiating.
Click to expand...

Well it is the 2015 season. So it counts against your cap this year. Perfectly relevant when discussing what the Pats have invested in him this year if he happens to resign.

Plus if he was to formulate a deal before the option expires they would still have to spread that $5M out over the contract to reduce his 1st year cap hit to something more manageable. Unless they do straight bonus money. Then it's less of a factor. Problem is you start with a $5M disadvantage with not a lot of money to start with on your cap.

You act like that money doesn't matter since it was paid out. It certainly does matter when you are trying to resign a guy and manage your cap.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Mackenzie 92 said:
Yeah I get that, I'm just talking about dead money not actual cash. Once dead money is on the books, it can't come off via cut or trade and is escalated against the cap in those circumstances.

So for example, if the Suh contract is legit, the Dolphins now have 60 million dead money against the cap.
Click to expand...

You're confusing agent leaked "guaranteed" money with actual contract details.
 
M

MechDX

Member
ocesc said:
Never been into Am. Football due to a lack of coverage in Germany, but I quite enjoyed this years Divisional Playoffs, Conference Finals and of course Super Bowl. Having acquired a pay TV subscription cheaply I might try to get into it this year.
Click to expand...

Welcome! Feel free to post here just prepare for some insularity.
 
C

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
Mackenzie 92 said:
Yeah I get that, I'm just talking about dead money not actual cash. Once dead money is on the books, it can't come off via cut or trade and is escalated against the cap in those circumstances.

So for example, if the Suh contract is legit, the Dolphins now have 60 million dead money against the cap.
Click to expand...

Looking at sportrac, they treat the first two years of the contract as guaranteed for whatever reason. If McCoy went Hermurdez, he wouldn't get anything past his signing bonus.
 
S

ShaneB

Member
ocesc said:
Never been into Am. Football due to a lack of coverage in Germany, but I quite enjoyed this years Divisional Playoffs, Conference Finals and of course Super Bowl. Having acquired a pay TV subscription cheaply I might try to get into it this year.
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard!
 
J

jakncoke

Banned
ocesc said:
Never been into Am. Football due to a lack of coverage in Germany, but I quite enjoyed this years Divisional Playoffs, Conference Finals and of course Super Bowl. Having acquired a pay TV subscription cheaply I might try to get into it this year.
Click to expand...

So, who is your team?
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Hate to see Suh go, I like him as a player...but at the same time I think we'll be better off long term and I'm glad we didn't give him that deal. In fact I'd imagine there are a lot of fans of different teams glad their front office didn't give him that deal.

The bigger issue I have is that the Lions bumbled Suh from the very beginning, starting with the rookie contract. Then they restructured his deal to make room for free agents, kicking the can down the road. If his cap hit was something reasonable like 12-13mil I would have been fine with franchising him. That didn't happen because our GM is an idiot. Who btw will probably draft an RB in the first round this year.

Now we have money to sign some FAs though, which is what I like. My priorities:

1. CB to replace Mathis. Don't chase Revis, just pick up a solid starter.

2. Vet DT. I wouldn't break the bank on a DT, and instead would just chase a solid vet. We should be able to get a good DT in the draft

3. OL. Stafford got murdered all season. I'm sure we'll pick an OL within the first three rounds of the draft but I'd be fine with picking one up through free agency as well.

No RB. Spiller is injury prone, I see no point in giving him shit. I'd rather draft Langford or Yeldon in the third round.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Only QB guaranteed to be on the Texans roster next year is Tom Savage.

B_dnQbdUsAAxQfq.jpg:large


lol Texans.
 
G

Godslay

Banned
Mackenzie 92 said:
Yeah I get that, I'm just talking about dead money not actual cash. Once dead money is on the books, it can't come off via cut or trade and is escalated against the cap in those circumstances.

So for example, if the Suh contract is legit, the Dolphins now have 60 million dead money against the cap.
Click to expand...

Not indefinitely.

Let's say he has $44M dead year 1, then $8M a year for the next two years.

They cut him year two. Phins only eat $16M in dead money.

That first year is the hill, and once you are over it the contract becomes more reasonable.

Suh gets his money right now, team is highly unlikely to cut him first year so that huge scary number of $44M is pretty much imaginary, and then the deal after that is good for both sides depending on performance.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
PhoenixDark said:
Hate to see Suh go, I like him as a player...but at the same time I think we'll be better off long term and I'm glad we didn't give him that deal. In fact I'd imagine there are a lot of fans of different teams glad their front office didn't give him that deal.

The bigger issue I have is that the Lions bumbled Suh from the very beginning, starting with the rookie contract. Then they restructured his deal to make room for free agents, kicking the can down the road. If his cap hit was something reasonable like 12-13mil I would have been fine with franchising him. That didn't happen because our GM is an idiot. Who btw will probably draft an RB in the first round this year.

Now we have money to sign some FAs though, which is what I like. My priorities:

1. CB to replace Mathis. Don't chase Revis, just pick up a solid starter.

2. Vet DT. I wouldn't break the bank on a DT, and instead would just chase a solid vet. We should be able to get a good DT in the draft

3. OL. Stafford got murdered all season. I'm sure we'll pick an OL within the first three rounds of the draft but I'd be fine with picking one up through free agency as well.

No RB. Spiller is injury prone, I see no point in giving him shit. I'd rather draft Langford or Yeldon in the third round.
Click to expand...

My biggest problem is that had Mayhew picked up the one-year option on Fairley, we would be fine at DT for the most part.

Agree on the CB, sign Fairley and draft a DT, and 100% agree on the OL. Needs massive upgrades.
 
J

jakncoke

Banned
abolisher6812 said:
I don't think Caldwell will mind rolling the cap over to next year. Next year free agent class looks stacked with Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Justin Houston and Jason Pierre-Paul just to name a few.
Click to expand...

I may be wrong but pretty sure they gotta be big spenders to get to 89% or they'll just lose it, so letting it roll over isnt an option
 
G

Godslay

Banned
jakncoke said:
I may be wrong but pretty sure they gotta be big spenders to get to 89% or they'll just lose it, so letting it roll over isnt an option
Click to expand...

They can roll it over iirc.

I think they just lose the money between the percentage they are at up to that 89% mark.

It's been awhile since I've read it so I could be wrong.
 
C

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
Godslay said:
Not indefinitely.

Let's say he has $44M dead year 1, then $8M a year for the next two years.

They cut him year two. Phins only eat $16M in dead money.

That first year is the hill, and once you are over it the contract becomes more reasonable.

Suh gets his money right now, team is highly unlikely to cut him first year so that huge scary number of $44M is pretty much imaginary, and then the deal after that is good for both sides depending on performance.
Click to expand...

Whatever cash bonuses a player gets are prorated over the life of the contract. If he gets a $44M signing bonus, that would be $7.3M of dead money every year for 6 years. They can, alternately, eat all of that dead money in one year if they cut him.
 
M

Mackenzie 92

Member
chuckddd said:
Looking at sportrac, they treat the first two years of the contract as guaranteed for whatever reason. If McCoy went Hermurdez, he wouldn't get anything past his signing bonus.
Click to expand...


Yeah, there's a difference between actual cash paid out over the life of the contract vs dead money. But for cap purposes, the dead money or guaranteed money is still on the books which was my original point.

Hernandez still counted $7.5 million dead money against the Pats for 2014.

Godslay said:
Not indefinitely.

Let's say he has $44M dead year 1, then $8M a year for the next two years.

They cut him year two. Phins only eat $16M in dead money.

That first year is the hill, and once you are over it the contract becomes more reasonable.

Suh gets his money right now, team is highly unlikely to cut him first year so that huge scary number of $44M is pretty much imaginary, and then the deal after that is good for both sides depending on performance.
Click to expand...


He would have to have a $44 million cap hit this year for that to happen.
 
M

MechDX

Member
brentech said:
Ever worry that Bill is going to be like John Gruden with QBs. 'gotta catch them all'

/cringe
Click to expand...

I honestly think there is a master plan in there somewhere. O'Brien seems like the type that has a plan drawn out to take a Shit.

The fact that they actually retained some of their drafted players this year and did not let them go to Philly says quite a bit
 
J

jakncoke

Banned
MechDX said:
I honestly think there is a master plan in there somewhere. O'Brien seems like the type that has a plan drawn out to take a Shit.

The fact that they actually retained some of our drafted players this year and did not let them go to Philly says quite a bit
Click to expand...

Just waiting time to draft Hackenberg ;)
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Godslay said:
Well it is the 2015 season. So it counts against your cap this year. Perfectly relevant when discussing what the Pats have invested in him this year if he happens to resign.

Plus if he was to formulate a deal before the option expires they would still have to spread that $5M out over the contract to reduce his 1st year cap hit to something more manageable. Unless they do straight bonus money. Then it's less of a factor. Problem is you start with a $5M disadvantage with not a lot of money to start with on your cap.

You act like that money doesn't matter since it was paid out. It certainly does matter when you are trying to resign a guy and manage your cap.
Click to expand...

It's unheard to be able to manipulate 5 million in cap space. That would take a mathematical cap genius. That is surely the deal breaker vs another team backing up a Brink's truck..
 
M

MechDX

Member
NFLTradeRumors.co ‏@nfltrade_rumors · 5m5 minutes ago
Lions Making Nick Fairley A Priority After Losing Ndamukong Suh http://bit.ly/1A8TlDf
Click to expand...

Kas response already set up for him

Fairley is a better player anyway :kas



Josh Williams @Jay_NFL
· 6m 6 minutes ago
TE Julius Thomas is set in Jacksonville, I'm told there is a deal on the table for him and is expected to sign Tuesday with #Jaguars
Click to expand...

Done and done.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Plinko said:
My biggest problem is that had Mayhew picked up the one-year option on Fairley, we would be fine at DT for the most part.

Agree on the CB, sign Fairley and draft a DT, and 100% agree on the OL. Needs massive upgrades.
Click to expand...

I'm torn on Fairley. The injury history and weight issues were major concerns before 2014's season, which is why I understood not taking the option; at the time I assumed that money would be used to re-sign Suh instead. Fairley came to camp out of shape as expected, but Caldwell handled the situation perfectly. Long story short Fairley got his weight under control, hired a personal chef, and overall seemed more active...until he got injured halfway through the season. So the injury issues persist, but the weight and attitude problems are gone.

I've heard people criticize Mayhew for not drafting Donald but eh...again, that's pure hindsight talking. I wanted a CB, and would have been fine with an OL pick. Instead we probably made the worst possible choice in Ebron (not saying he's a bust, just that we didn't need him). Chalk it up as Mayhew being an idiot. BPA works when you're a consistent team with depth. That's why I fear Mayhew will ignore DT/OL needs and draft Gurly or Gordon in the first round...
 
M

MechDX

Member
Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer · 5s5 seconds ago
Also, the Lions offered DT Ndamukong Suh a deal worth $17 million per year with $58 million in guarantees.
Click to expand...

Minimal difference. Haynesworth 2.0 incoming?
 
J

jello44

Chie is the worst waifu
ocesc said:
Never been into Am. Football due to a lack of coverage in Germany, but I quite enjoyed this years Divisional Playoffs, Conference Finals and of course Super Bowl. Having acquired a pay TV subscription cheaply I might try to get into it this year.
Click to expand...

Welcome!
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Bowser said:
Take less money to stay in Detroit or live on South Beach with no income tax?

I know what any rational human being is doing.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. Suh also wants to be a star beyond football. Miami will allow him to try that (and bomb because he's socially retarded). He hated the media here...he's gonna really hate Miami's media once they start questioning whether he's worth the money in a year or two.
 
G

Godslay

Banned
chuckddd said:
Whatever cash bonuses a player gets are prorated over the life of the contract. If he gets a $44M signing bonus, that would be $7.3M of dead money every year for 6 years. They can, alternately, eat all of that dead money in one year if they cut him.
Click to expand...

That's the rule for signing bonuses.

Mackenzie 92 said:
He would have to have a $44 million cap hit this year for that to happen.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Look at JJ Watt's deal. Set up differently, but dead cap heavy on the front end. $32M for 2014 in dead cap. Only $4.5M cap hit. Beyond that dead cap decreases on then cap rises.
 
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