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NFL Offseason Thread 3 - Drowney for Clowney Mech, Drowney for Clowney.

C

Coldnoodle

Member
You are older than:

4.4 percent of NFL players
12.8 percent of NBA players
17.4 percent of NHL players
2.9 percent of MLB players

I'm spry and hip!
 
T

Talon

Member
The Artful Dodger said:
We didn't draft Curry.

Also Gallery was supposed to be a sure thing. It just shows that even the most predictable players there is still some guess work or chance it doesn't work out. But drafting a QB in the first round isn't always gonna get you a ring.
Click to expand...
Curry was supposed to be Derrick Thomas 2.0. Gallery was no doubt Anthony Munoz or at the worst Bruce Matthews.

The QB busts are easy to remember, but we seem to ignore the lists of linemen and linebackers that haven't panned out - what's up Glenn Dorsey!

QBs are the biggest difference makers on the field. It can make a dumbass franchise look smart for 3-4 seasons. If you love a guy and you're in the range to take him, take the QB.

You didn't answer my question. How many late round, serviceable QBs are in this league? What the hell is a serviceable QB?
 
D

Draxal

Member
squicken said:
Short term memory. Non-QBs are locks. Can't miss. Reach for a QB and you are taking Gabbert over Watt/Quinn.
Click to expand...

Also, this draft is kinda special anyway especially compared to how weak last years was. Fisher would have been the third offensive lineman picked in this years.
 
B

BigAT

Member
gutshot said:
I know most of Eagles GAF won't be happy to hear this.
Click to expand...

0e3.png
 
B

brentech

Member
Gallery is kind of forgotten because they em were at least able to turn him into a guard.

Curry, that's just some sad business. I think teams got attached to measurables and just okay film thinking the NFL would fix problems.
 
D

Draxal

Member
I don't think Gallery was forgotten, Iowa lineman stock has taken a big hit since then.

Gallery was also taken 10 years ago, man we old.
 
S

Squall ASF

Member
One more week!!!


Not as bad as I thought it'd be:

You are older than:

87.9 percent of NFL players
76.9 percent of NBA players
77.4 percent of NHL players
71.3 percent of MLB players
 
D

Draxal

Member
squicken said:
Getting close to pistols at dawn wrt Lewan
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Lewan would be taken over Martin at this point (I'm thinking the Giants would pick Martin over him). Although, I'd probably pick Lewan over Fisher.

edit. On the qb thing, don't think these qbs compared to Luck and RGIII, and that's were the short term memory is affecting them as well. These guys just aren't as good as them.
 
D

Draxal

Member
Talon said:
Judging by the media waffling in the last week, I don't think NFL FOs are as set on the Robinson-Matthews-Lewan order as we all like to think.
Click to expand...

I really want to see McGinn's take on lineman. (want to see his takes on Martin and Yankey).
 
S

squicken

Member
Talon said:
Judging by the media waffling in the last week, I don't think NFL FOs are as set on the Robinson-Matthews-Lewan order as we all like to think.
Click to expand...

I don't think so either. Lewan's length is really an asset, and Mathews might not have much more room to grow as a player.

And I am a big fan of Martin. Rams taking Evans (trade down) then Martin at 13 would be fantastic

Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl
#Texans have done a lot of work on RBs. Realistic possibility that they select 1 before 3rd round ends.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't be surprised if Arian has worn out his welcome
 
T

The Artful Dodger

Member
Talon said:
You didn't answer my question. How many late round, serviceable QBs are in this league? What the hell is a serviceable QB?
Click to expand...

lol, I'm referring to QBs that don't necessarily turn the ball over, maybe they won't go down as HOF'ers but we as a fanbase are enamored by highlight reels.

Tavaris Jackson wasn't a great QB but he (combined with AP, got the vikings to the playoffs), Schaub, excluding last year, wasn't great but he wasn't too bad. Ryan Fitzpatrick is another QB that does well all things considered. Those kind of QBs are great placeholders. I mean ideally everyone gets that franchise caliber QB in the first or second round but sometimes you don't have enough pieces to make it work. I personally would rather start building on Defense than offense with first round picks, starting in the trenches and work my way out.

I mean I totally get what you're saying, but idk, I don't always think the answer is draft the QB.

It might make for a good highlight reel and sell a few jerseys but still. I think there are better ways to build a team then default to drafting a QB first.
 
T

Talon

Member
Draxal said:
I'm not sure Lewan would be taken over Martin at this point (I'm thinking the Giants would pick Martin over him). Although, I'd probably pick Lewan over Fisher.

edit. On the qb thing, don't think these qbs compared to Luck and RGIII, and that's were the short term memory is affecting them as well. These guys just don't compare to them.
Click to expand...
Let's just list out the great-to-good QBs in the league: Peyton, AGod, Big Ben, Drew Brees, Eli, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Andrew Luck, SCAM, and Romo. I'd put RGIII, Stafford, Bradford, and Dalton in that next tier.

Looking at that list, we have 12 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders (33rd overall and 35th overall), and Romo as the edge case.

Obviously we already mentioned Tom, Russell, and Kaepernick as late QBs that fell into great rosters.

This isn't looking within the last five years. This is looking over the last 15 years and the significant QBs in this league. Even including Tom, Russell, and Kaep, that is:

12 1st rounders
3 2nd rounders (33rd overall (1st), 35th overall (3rd), 36th overall (4th))
1 3rd rounder (75th overall (9th))
1 5th rounder
1 unsigned rookie
The Artful Dodger said:
lol, I'm referring to QBs that don't necessarily turn the ball over, maybe they won't go down as HOF'ers but we as a fanbase are enamored by highlight reels.

Tavaris Jackson wasn't a great QB but he (combined with AP, got the vikings to the playoffs), Schaub, excluding last year, wasn't great but he wasn't too bad. Ryan Fitzpatrick is another QB that does well all things considered. Those kind of QBs are great placeholders. I mean ideally everyone gets that franchise caliber QB in the first or second round but sometimes you don't have enough pieces to make it work. I personally would rather start building on Defense than offense with first round picks, starting in the trenches and work my way out.

I mean I totally get what you're saying, but idk, I don't always think the answer is draft the QB.

It might make for a good highlight reel and sell a few jerseys but still. I think there are better ways to build a team then default to drafting a QB first.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that QBs will make your roster go from good to great. I'm saying that as long as your offensive line isn't a complete and total shit show, take advantage of the situation you're in and take the QB you believe can turn your franchise around. You can keep waiting and waiting with guys like Jackson and McGloin and get absolutely nowhere fast. Having an answer at QB gives you significant bit of leeway when building a roster.

Then again, you could be the Vikings and draft Ponder as the rest of the league laughs at you.
 
D

Draxal

Member
Talon said:
Let's just list out the great-to-good QBs in the league: Peyton, AGod, Big Ben, Drew Brees, Eli, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Andrew Luck, SCAM, and Romo. I'd put RGIII, Stafford, Bradford, and Dalton in that next tier.

Looking at that list, we have 12 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders (33rd overall and 35th overall), and Romo as the edge case.

Obviously we already mentioned Tom, Russell, and Kaepernick as late QBs that fell into great rosters.

This isn't looking within the last five years. This is looking over the last 15 years and the significant QBs in this league. Even including Tom, Russell, and Kaep, that is:

12 1st rounders
3 2nd rounders (33rd overall (1st), 35th overall (3rd), 36th overall (4th))
1 3rd rounder (75th overall (9th))
1 5th rounder
1 unsigned rookie
Click to expand...

If there was a qb as dynamic as RGIII in this draft, he would go number one overall before Clowney. (I do think Manziel is pretty dynamic and should go really high, but the durability concern is a huge red flag). I'm all for going for a qb if they were there, but this year's draft is atypical in there's a huge amount of top tier non qb talent, and there's no qb as good as RGIII or Luck.

A scout told Russ Lande, they would take Nassib over any qb in this year's draft.
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
Olds unite!

You are older than:

95.7 percent of NFL players
87.6 percent of NBA players
88.1 percent of NHL players
85.4 percent of MLB players
 
T

Talon

Member
Draxal said:
If there was a qb as dynamic as RGIII in this draft, he would go number one overall before Clowney. (I do think Manziel is pretty dynamic and should go really high, but the durability concern is a huge red flag). I'm all for going for a qb if they were there, but this year's draft is atypical in there's a huge amount of top tier non qb talent, and there's no qb as good as RGIII or Luck.

A scout told Russ Lande, they would take Nassib over any qb in this year's draft.
Click to expand...
All I'm saying is that this mythical "take a serviceable QB late" is bunk. That player doesn't exist. The player that does exist is the bad QB that can't cut it at this level. We've seen the track record in this league of QBs. Unless you fall into a great roster, you aren't going to be a difference maker.

GMs don't save their jobs riding a placeholder that throws 13-20 picks.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Ross Tucker ‏@RossTuckerNFL · 17m
Hearing whispers about NFL Draft being a week LATER next year. Gosh I hope not.



Tha fuck is this shit?
 
T

The Artful Dodger

Member
Talon said:
I'm not saying that QBs will make your roster go from good to great. I'm saying that as long as your offensive line isn't a complete and total shit show, take advantage of the situation you're in and take the QB you believe can turn your franchise around. You can keep waiting and waiting with guys like Jackson and McGloin and get absolutely nowhere fast. Having an answer at QB gives you significant bit of leeway when building a roster.

Then again, you could be the Vikings and draft Ponder as the rest of the league laughs at you.
Click to expand...

I hear you man, but honestly. It wasn't McGloin that lost us games. Our Defense didn't finish, or our WRs couldn't get open. I'd love that top-notch QB, but I do think a solid WR or a playmaker on D is a premium right now. I'm not saying we need to ride it out with McGloin or that we shouldn't draft a high QB, I just don't see a QB I like in the first this year.
 
C

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
Are we doing this mock draft thing or what?

Talon said:
Let's just list out the great-to-good QBs in the league: Peyton, AGod, Big Ben, Drew Brees, Eli, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Andrew Luck, SCAM, and Romo. I'd put RGIII, Stafford, Bradford, and Dalton in that next tier.

Looking at that list, we have 12 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders (33rd overall and 35th overall), and Romo as the edge case.

Obviously we already mentioned Tom, Russell, and Kaepernick as late QBs that fell into great rosters.

This isn't looking within the last five years. This is looking over the last 15 years and the significant QBs in this league. Even including Tom, Russell, and Kaep, that is:

12 1st rounders
3 2nd rounders (33rd overall (1st), 35th overall (3rd), 36th overall (4th))
1 3rd rounder (75th overall (9th))
1 5th rounder
1 unsigned rookie

I'm not saying that QBs will make your roster go from good to great. I'm saying that as long as your offensive line isn't a complete and total shit show, take advantage of the situation you're in and take the QB you believe can turn your franchise around. You can keep waiting and waiting with guys like Jackson and McGloin and get absolutely nowhere fast. Having an answer at QB gives you significant bit of leeway when building a roster.

Then again, you could be the Vikings and draft Ponder as the rest of the league laughs at you.
Click to expand...

So you're advocating reaching for a qb? Make sure you take one in the first two rounds even if the guy isn't worth it, because if he isn't picked high, he has no chance.

It should be noted that the four qbs in the championship round were a 6th/3rd/2nd/FA.

Personally, I say stack your team and then get a qb.
 
D

Draxal

Member
History Lane time

2004
1st Rounders.
1. Eli Manning
4. Phillip Rivers
11. Ben Roethlisberger
22. J.P. Losman

2005
1st Rounders
1. Alex Smith
24. Aaron Rodgers
25. Jason Campbell

2006
1st Rounders
3. Vince Young
10. Matt Leinart
11. Jay Cutler
2nd Rounders
49. Kellen Clemens
64. Tarvaris Jackson

2007
1st Rounders.
1. Jamarcus Russel
22. Brady Quinn
2nd Rounders
36. Kevin Kolb
43. Drew Stanton

2008
1st Rounders.
3. Matt Ryan
18. Joe Flacco
2nd Rounders
56 Brian Brohm
57 Chad Henne

2009
1st Rounders.
1. Matt Stafford
5. Mark Sanchez
17. Josh Freeman
2nd Rounders
44. Pat White
 
T

Talon

Member
chuckddd said:
So you're advocating reaching for a qb? Make sure you take one in the first two rounds even if the guy isn't worth it, because if he isn't picked high, he has no chance.

It should be noted that the four qbs in the championship round were a 6th/3rd/2nd/FA.

Personally, I say stack your team and then get a qb.
Click to expand...
I think you've missed the series of posts I've made. Jesus, chuck, why don't you read a little. ;)
Talon said:
Man, I'm getting a real kick out of these "get a solid QB in the late rounds."

How many times has that actually produced a franchise QB? Lord Brady is definitely a HoFer, but that's a once in a decade kind of hit/circumstance. Russell is a SB champion in year three, but he's definitely been carried by that phenomenal defense. Kaepernick has performed well, but the jury's out on him - plus he objectively has the best coach in the league with a tight leash on him. The only thing we're sure about Russell and Kaepernick is that they've accomplished more than Fatford ever will - unless we count the dining table.

Unless you think you're stupid enough to think that you're as well-run of an organization as the early-2000s Patriots or current Seahawk and 49ers, you can keep on waiting to oblivion.
Click to expand...
Also, don't know where you're getting your numbers from. The championship QBs were:

Russell (3rd) - Kaepernick (2nd)
Peyton (1st) - Brady (6th)
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
Talon said:
Let's just list out the great-to-good QBs in the league: Peyton, AGod, Big Ben, Drew Brees, Eli, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Andrew Luck, SCAM, and Romo. I'd put RGIII, Stafford, Bradford, and Dalton in that next tier.

Looking at that list, we have 12 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders (33rd overall and 35th overall), and Romo as the edge case.

Obviously we already mentioned Tom, Russell, and Kaepernick as late QBs that fell into great rosters.

This isn't looking within the last five years. This is looking over the last 15 years and the significant QBs in this league. Even including Tom, Russell, and Kaep, that is:

12 1st rounders
3 2nd rounders (33rd overall (1st), 35th overall (3rd), 36th overall (4th))
1 3rd rounder (75th overall (9th))
1 5th rounder
1 unsigned rookie

I'm not saying that QBs will make your roster go from good to great. I'm saying that as long as your offensive line isn't a complete and total shit show, take advantage of the situation you're in and take the QB you believe can turn your franchise around. You can keep waiting and waiting with guys like Jackson and McGloin and get absolutely nowhere fast. Having an answer at QB gives you significant bit of leeway when building a roster.

Then again, you could be the Vikings and draft Ponder as the rest of the league laughs at you.
Click to expand...

You have Dalton ahead of Foles? jnc
 
E

effzee

Member
Hahahaha Eagles not taking a safety till late. I guess like Reid, Chip doesn't care much for the safety position. It was only our biggest weakness on D last season but I'm sure a 5th or 6th round pick will fix that.

And to think all those mocks had us taking Pryor @ 22. What I don't get is why we didn't sign one of the top safeties in FA. The least they could have done was sign Byrd or Ward if they didn't like this draft class for safeties.

They sure are building up Malcolm Jenkins as some game changer. Dude sucks. Only hope is that we hot 2-3 home runs at the LB and DE positions in the draft since that is the only improvement ws can expect.
 
T

Talon

Member
"Kevin Kolb is going to start in this league."
"Henne will be a stud due to his experience and success at the collegiate level."
"Brian Brohm is absolutely a steal!"
dionysus said:
Explain how he objectively is the best coach in the league?
Click to expand...
Casting the bait for FMT, obviously.
 
D

Draxal

Member
Talon said:
"Kevin Kolb is going to start in this league."
"Henne will be a stud due to his experience and success at the collegiate level."
"Brian Brohm is absolutely a steal!"

Casting the bait for FMT, obviously.
Click to expand...

I just posted that for referential purposes. It does seem weird that 2004 was extremely fruitful while 2006-7 were pretty barren, with only Cutler being the above average qb (and he's not in your list but I consider him around that tier).
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Is he been the best harbaugh in the league? In 20 years we might look back at winning a title with Joe Flacco as your QB as one of the greatest feats in NFL history.
 
T

Talon

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Is he been the best harbaugh in the league? In 20 years we might look back at winning a title with Joe Flacco as your QB as one of the greatest feats in NFL history.
Click to expand...
It's true. Young Harbaugh basically did the equivalent of winning a marathon as an 80-year-old grandma without feet.
 
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