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NFL Offseason Thread 3 - Drowney for Clowney Mech, Drowney for Clowney.

F

Futurevoid

Member
So the Giants are officially out of the Hard Knocks running but Coughlin was asked how he felt about the possibility.

http://nypost.com/2014/05/10/coughlin-hbo-would-fire-us-from-hard-knocks-in-a-minute/

“Do you think it has anything to do with whether I say yes or no?” Coughlin said. “First of all, realize that I would have absolutely no say in this, but if it came down to me? Absolutely not.”

What, pray tell, would happen if the league forced “Hard Knocks’’ down the throats of the Giants? Coughlin said HBO would not be happy with the results. HBO always gets coaches to agree to unprecedented access, giving viewers in-depth insight into personnel decisions and personal issues players deal with in training camp.

“You wouldn’t get what you normally associate with that show,” Coughlin said. “I’d go the other way and they’d fire us in a minute. Canceled. Nobody would watch it.”
Click to expand...

Owxi9.gif



Alligatorjandro said:
None of you savages has the spine to wear the avatar I wear
Click to expand...

Very few have the spine to actually be dedicated Jaguars fans like yourself either.
 
D

Doorman

Member
Alright, ranting ahead. Will only be of interest to Lions fans and people who enjoy laughing at the Lions' various failures, you have been warned!

Today's topic: Martin Mayhew should be fired because the Eric Ebron draft pick is useless.

Thinking back on last season, I will ask what the major reason or reasons were for the utter collapse on the back half of the year. No, "it's the Lions" on its own does not count as a reason. Did it turn out that Tight End depth was our big downfall? Is that what got fans irate after every loss? I don't believe so. In fact with the emergence of undrafted free agent Joseph Fauria as a major red-zone target, I'd say that second tight end was rather low on the list of issues, the biggest of which being Stafford's inconsistencies throwing the ball, bone-headed turnovers, and a back seven that inspired more laughter from opposing offenses than the name Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. What does drafting Eric Ebron do to correct those largest issues? Oh, right, absolutely nothing at all.

Consider the investment of talent on the skill side of the offense now. I did this a few days ago, noting the draft selections that make up our core of "weapons" in what I would assume will be our most standard two-TE set:

- WR1: Calvin Johnson. First-round pick, 2nd overall
- WR2: Golden Tate. Second-round pick, 60th overall
- RB1: Reggie Bush. First-round pick, 2nd overall
- TE1: Brandon Pettigrew. First-round pick, 20th overall
- TE2: Eric Ebron. First-round pick, 10th overall

(For other sets you might get Ryan Broyles, a second-round pick, and Joique Bell or Fauria, outliers as UFAs)

Mother of God, what starting-caliber NFL quarterback wouldn't be able to make things happen with a group like that? Even someone who's average should have pretty potent numbers when gifted that sort of roster. Except...Matthew Stafford is not supposed to be an average QB. He was a first overall pick. That comes with an expectation to be among the best of the best, the elites of the NFL. And this is where my beef with Ebron comes in.

Stafford is (by his draft position and his contract size) supposed to be one of the best of the league. What is one of the common praises heaped onto the current best, though? The Brady, Brees, and Rodgers of the world are all spoken of as making the players around them better. Or at the very least, they're able to run servicable to damn good offenses using players that aren't necessarily picked up at the top of the heap. Brees has Marques Colston and Jimmy Graham, 7th and 3rd round picks, respectively. How many of Aaron Rodgers' weapons are first round picks at this point? Cobb wasn't, Nelson wasn't, Kuuuuuuhn? Eddie Lacy, alright, but he was only introduced this year and was concussed for part of it, didn't stop Green Bay from winning the division anyway.

My point with this is, if this year, Stafford under the new coaching staff finally did ascend to the level of his expectations and become a really good quarterback, would he really even need yet another first-round weapon in order to develop a great offense? You'd already have top-line talent with Megatron, Tate (the lead receiver on a Super Bowl team, mind), a first-round TE in Pettigrew who the staff thought enough of to resign, and then whatever else you feel like adding. Is it such a drastic improvement to have Ebron instead of, say, a TE picked up in the second or third round like many other teams did, or continue to develop Fauria and expand his toolset?
Alternatively, let's look at the bad-case scenario and say that Stafford doesn't show any tangible improvement on his personal ability. He's already had CJ, Pettigrew, Durham, and others as large-bodied targets that he's had troubles overthrowing or suffering with dropped passes. If that's the case and the staff thinks that maybe Stafford isn't progressing as well, perhaps it does make sense to draft a really sure-handed TE that can help alleviate that iss--oh, wait. Ebron had an 11% drop rate in college. Great help that is.
So, essentially, if Stafford turns the corner and becomes great, he wouldn't need a second first-round TE in order to develop a potent offense. If Stafford does not show marked improvement, I don't think that Ebron is so unstoppably amazing on his own that he won't fall victim to the same dropsies and overthrows that every other receiver on this team already deals with. Either way, Ebron's success is tied entirely into Stafford's performance, and if that's all he is, there is no reason to spend a top-10 draft pick on him.

To those who want to make the claim that "no, don't think of him as a second Tight End, he's more like a slot receiver!" I will respond with......no, fuck that. In that case, you spent a top ten pick on a slot receiver and essentially your third receiving option. Whether as a TE or a WR, Ebron is a waste here.

I've formally, finally turned my corner. Mayhew should absolutely be fired.
 
S

squicken

Member
Kastrioti said:
Please do, Hito. Whatever the avatar is I don't care. I was cursed with a Vikebike avatar for three months a few months ago so it can't get much worse than that.
Click to expand...

I hate to see these allegation you have welched on a bit. I know you love Stafford but violating avatar bets is inviting some dark magic. Beware, kas
 
C

Colasante

Member
Which team had the "worst" draft? I'm hard pressed to choose one. Even the doormat franchises seemed to do well on paper. I feel like the quality of drafting across the league has gone up in recent years. At this point, I'd probably say the Colts or Titans.
 
B

Bread

Banned
Colasante said:
Which team had the "worst" draft? I'm hard pressed to choose one. Even the doormat franchises seemed to do well on paper. I feel like the quality of drafting across the league has gone up in recent years. At this point, I'd probably say the Colts or Titans.
Click to expand...
colts because they drafted trent truck in the 1st
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
squicken said:
I hate to see these allegation you have welched on a bit. I know you love Stafford but violating avatar bets is inviting some dark magic. Beware, kas
Click to expand...

The bet was we would draft a receiver as opposed to a defensive player. We were targeting WRs all along. Ebron is not going to be a tight end. Brandon Pettigrew is our tight end.

Ebron will line up in the slot. I've never violated a avatar bet in the past and I won't on this one even though I technically won the bet.

Ebron will not line up in a three point stance and block. He sucks at blocking while Pettigrew is one of the best blocking TEs in the league.

I will take the avatar because of loopholes in the bet but it doesn't change the fact we drafted Ebron to be a slot receiver.
 
C

Colasante

Member
Kastrioti said:
The bet was we would draft a receiver as opposed to a defensive player. We were targeting WRs all along. Ebron is not going to be a tight end. Brandon Pettigrew is our tight end.

Ebron will line up in the slot. I've never violated a avatar bet in the past and I won't on this one even though I technically won the bet.

Ebron will not line up in a three point stance and block. He sucks at blocking while Pettigrew is one of the best blocking TEs in the league.

I will take the avatar because of loopholes in the bet but it doesn't change the fact we drafted Ebron to be a slot receiver.
Click to expand...

This argument is confusing. Ebron won't be a tight end because Pettigrew is a tight end? What is Joique Bell? Is he a wide receiver because Reggie Bush is a running back?
 
B

Buckethead

Banned
Doorman said:
I've formally, finally turned my corner. Mayhew should absolutely be fired.
Click to expand...

They were in a tough position and no one likely wanted to take the tenner from them. That being said, I think it's a dumb pick.

Also, Ebron will be your #1 TE of the future but I doubt he'll get on the field so quickly. I'd imagine it'd take some time to learn the playbook, etc.

Also Ebron = WR/IR, Pettigrew = blocking TE with check down potential. Different types of players.
 
J

JABEE

Member
Kas, what are you talking about?

Ebron is a tight end! Ebron was drafted as a tight end. He labels himself as a tight end on Twitter.

Admit that you lost the bet!
 
S

squicken

Member
Colasante said:
Which team had the "worst" draft? I'm hard pressed to choose one. Even the doormat franchises seemed to do well on paper. I feel like the quality of drafting across the league has gone up in recent years. At this point, I'd probably say the Colts or Titans.
Click to expand...

Not super-excited by the Bills or Phins drafts.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Doorman said:
Alright, ranting ahead. Will only be of interest to Lions fans and people who enjoy laughing at the Lions' various failures, you have been warned!

Today's topic: Martin Mayhew should be fired because the Eric Ebron draft pick is useless.

Thinking back on last season, I will ask what the major reason or reasons were for the utter collapse on the back half of the year. No, "it's the Lions" on its own does not count as a reason. Did it turn out that Tight End depth was our big downfall? Is that what got fans irate after every loss? I don't believe so. In fact with the emergence of undrafted free agent Joseph Fauria as a major red-zone target, I'd say that second tight end was rather low on the list of issues, the biggest of which being Stafford's inconsistencies throwing the ball, bone-headed turnovers, and a back seven that inspired more laughter from opposing offenses than the name Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. What does drafting Eric Ebron do to correct those largest issues? Oh, right, absolutely nothing at all.

Consider the investment of talent on the skill side of the offense now. I did this a few days ago, noting the draft selections that make up our core of "weapons" in what I would assume will be our most standard two-TE set:

- WR1: Calvin Johnson. First-round pick, 2nd overall
- WR2: Golden Tate. Second-round pick, 60th overall
- RB1: Reggie Bush. First-round pick, 2nd overall
- TE1: Brandon Pettigrew. First-round pick, 20th overall
- TE2: Eric Ebron. First-round pick, 10th overall

(For other sets you might get Ryan Broyles, a second-round pick, and Joique Bell or Fauria, outliers as UFAs)

Mother of God, what starting-caliber NFL quarterback wouldn't be able to make things happen with a group like that? Even someone who's average should have pretty potent numbers when gifted that sort of roster. Except...Matthew Stafford is not supposed to be an average QB. He was a first overall pick. That comes with an expectation to be among the best of the best, the elites of the NFL. And this is where my beef with Ebron comes in.

Stafford is (by his draft position and his contract size) supposed to be one of the best of the league. What is one of the common praises heaped onto the current best, though? The Brady, Brees, and Rodgers of the world are all spoken of as making the players around them better. Or at the very least, they're able to run servicable to damn good offenses using players that aren't necessarily picked up at the top of the heap. Brees has Marques Colston and Jimmy Graham, 7th and 3rd round picks, respectively. How many of Aaron Rodgers' weapons are first round picks at this point? Cobb wasn't, Nelson wasn't, Kuuuuuuhn? Eddie Lacy, alright, but he was only introduced this year and was concussed for part of it, didn't stop Green Bay from winning the division anyway.

My point with this is, if this year, Stafford under the new coaching staff finally did ascend to the level of his expectations and become a really good quarterback, would he really even need yet another first-round weapon in order to develop a great offense? You'd already have top-line talent with Megatron, Tate (the lead receiver on a Super Bowl team, mind), a first-round TE in Pettigrew who the staff thought enough of to resign, and then whatever else you feel like adding. Is it such a drastic improvement to have Ebron instead of, say, a TE picked up in the second or third round like many other teams did, or continue to develop Fauria and expand his toolset?
Alternatively, let's look at the bad-case scenario and say that Stafford doesn't show any tangible improvement on his personal ability. He's already had CJ, Pettigrew, Durham, and others as large-bodied targets that he's had troubles overthrowing or suffering with dropped passes. If that's the case and the staff thinks that maybe Stafford isn't progressing as well, perhaps it does make sense to draft a really sure-handed TE that can help alleviate that iss--oh, wait. Ebron had an 11% drop rate in college. Great help that is.
So, essentially, if Stafford turns the corner and becomes great, he wouldn't need a second first-round TE in order to develop a potent offense. If Stafford does not show marked improvement, I don't think that Ebron is so unstoppably amazing on his own that he won't fall victim to the same dropsies and overthrows that every other receiver on this team already deals with. Either way, Ebron's success is tied entirely into Stafford's performance, and if that's all he is, there is no reason to spend a top-10 draft pick on him.

To those who want to make the claim that "no, don't think of him as a second Tight End, he's more like a slot receiver!" I will respond with......no, fuck that. In that case, you spent a top ten pick on a slot receiver and essentially your third receiving option. Whether as a TE or a WR, Ebron is a waste here.

I've formally, finally turned my corner. Mayhew should absolutely be fired.
Click to expand...

I don't see any flaws in this analysis. I like the defensive picks today as well as yesterday, outside of the small CB. But that first round pick reeked of Millen-esque bullshit.

Ebron is a really good player, I think we all agree about that. But what does it say about our franchise QB that he needs another first round, top 20 offensive weapon? We already have a potent offense with Tate, if we had a weak spot it would be at the #3 receiver spot - something that could have easily been patched in this draft, the deepest draft for receivers in a decade.

What does it say about our offensive coordinator, that he needs to attempt to re-create the exact set up Sean Payton had in NO to make things work? You have Megatron, Tate, Reggie Bush, Joquie Bell, and a redzone monster in Fauria...you can't come up with something without a "Jimmy Graham type?" That's a red flag to me.

I watched North Carolina's QB throw a lot of bad balls, which no doubt contributed to Ebron's drop rate. If Stafford is out there slinging side armed throws aimed at the dirt, how does drafting another weapon fix that? The problem is at QB. He has the weapons, he just needs to throw it to them where they can catch it.

We all just saw GB load up Aaron Rodgers' offensive options in later rounds. Why the hell can't we do that.
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
Colasante said:
This argument is confusing. Ebron won't be a tight end because Pettigrew is a tight end? What is Joique Bell? Is he a wide receiver because Reggie Bush is a running back?
Click to expand...

Exactly. Brandon Pettigrew will line up with our offensive line and block and occasionally go out for routes while Ebron will be used as a slot wide receiver and only a slot receiver. He sucks at blocking.

My point is further reenforced by the fact that our new offensive coordinator is Joe Lombardi who was the QB coach for Sean Payton and Drew Brees. Ebron will be used exactly like Jimmy Graham.

I understand that he technically has been refereed to as a tight end in college, but he will not be one in the NFL. He will be a slot receiver.

Loopholes aside I lost the bet but so did Hater. As soon as I get the avatar I will change it. I'm about to go out and party out here in Pasadena but as soon as I get a PM about what avatar to wear I'll wear it.
 
B

Buckethead

Banned
Colasante said:
Which team had the "worst" draft? I'm hard pressed to choose one. Even the doormat franchises seemed to do well on paper. I feel like the quality of drafting across the league has gone up in recent years. At this point, I'd probably say the Colts or Titans.
Click to expand...
The Cardinals.
 
S

squicken

Member
LJ11 said:
The entire AFC East was so-so if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah wasn't a fan of the Pats draft either. Ripped on that yesterday. I think Cola is right that teams don't make glaring mistakes like they used to, but some are still better than other. MIA getting desperate for that OL hurt them. With NE, I could've seen snagging Bortles late in round 1. There's at least franchise QB potential. Don't see that with Jimmy G
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
squicken said:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...14-returns-nos-100-to-91?campaign=Twitter_atl

Ah I guess NFLN is running their top 100 players thing. Stafford was 100.
Click to expand...

A 23 year old Quarterback who throws 41 TDs, 16 INTs and 5,000 yards is not the 100th best player in the league. He should be in the top 10.

But as the jersey sales indicate Stafford does not get the credit or attention he deserves. Eric Decker sold more jerseys than Stafford last year.

Stafford is a family and football type of dude and is not an attention whore like Aaron Rodgers or Colin Kaep so he doesn't receive as much attention as them.

He doesn't need his ego stroked like those insecure dudes because he knows his abilities and that he can sling a football better than almost anyone in the world.
 
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