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NFL Offseason Thread |OT3| The Long Wait

Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
Ohio is so awful that even when the economy was blowing up, Ohio was still in a economic recession.

I wouldn't be shocked to hear that Ohio hasn't enjoyed sustained economic growth since the 50's.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
Godslay said:
Speed of light is a bottleneck for everything. You can mitigate that to a certain degree with locality. If everyone has to connect to say a server in NY, then yeah it's going to be a problem the further out you get. That's why they are making investments in that infrastructure. The closer the server, theoretically the better the latency.

As far as power draw, I can't imagine that it would be that big of deal considering that both the Xbox and the PS4 are very efficient in terms of power consumption. I ran a box for Rosetta@Home in the early 2000's. Every night for months on end. That drew a lot of power just for the Pentium D itself, and I didn't notice it on my power bill. I think worrying about that is a minor complaint.

As far as the game itself, I found this little gem on gaming side.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=564681

Interesting application. I don't think it's impossible to say that something of this nature could scale up with a push. Maybe I'm just too optimistic, but I think there are some real avenues for application here.
Click to expand...
Turn based stuff actually works -- in general, the latency test is "does this game need a pause button?" If the answer is no, "the cloud" could be useful. Otherwise, that 33ms threshold (for 30 fps! Kiss 60 goodbye...) is going to be bearing down your neck. And really, network latency is only the beginning. It's the simplest thing to point to, but there's packet loss, there's jitter, there's buffer bloat issues, there's throughput constraints on how much you can stream over the wire. And then, even if you could navigate the network issues there's also the latency of the local system itself, which will never be 0.

We're talking <10ms ping times with no jitter for this to be even moderately useful. And the local experience will always be superior.

The power bill is probably a psychological thing. I think people would get used to it for a videogame console, but that wouldn't make it any easier of a pill to swallow. And again, I'm not sure what it really gives anyone except saved infrastructure costs (maybe) for the console manufacturer. Carrier NAT is going to railroad any clever "locality" schemes anyone comes up with. Hole punching schemes can only carry you so far.
 
B

Buckethead

Banned
Hunter S Thompson said:
Hey, Buckethead. Patrick Roy is the Avalanches new head coach. And he only agreed to join if the owner Josh Kroinke agreed to actually try to make the team good again!!!!
Click to expand...
I know how this story turns out.

JIR8aXZ.jpg
 
G

Godslay

Banned
Elfforkusu said:
Turn based stuff actually works -- in general, the latency test is "does this game need a pause button?" If the answer is no, "the cloud" could be useful. Otherwise, that 33ms threshold (for 30 fps! Kiss 60 goodbye...) is going to be bearing down your neck. And really, network latency is only the beginning. It's the simplest thing to point to, but there's packet loss, there's jitter, there's buffer bloat issues, there's throughput constraints on how much you can stream over the wire. And then, even if you could navigate the network issues there's also the latency of the local system itself, which will never be 0.

We're talking <10ms ping times with no jitter for this to be even moderately useful. And the local experience will always be superior.

The power bill is probably a psychological thing. I think people would get used to it for a videogame console, but that wouldn't make it any easier of a pill to swallow. And again, I'm not sure what it really gives anyone except saved infrastructure costs (maybe) for the console manufacturer. Carrier NAT is going to railroad any clever "locality" schemes anyone comes up with. Hole punching schemes can only carry you so far.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Likely can't use it for everything, I agree with the Xbox engineer panel that it has to be divided between latency sensitive and latency insensitive categories to be viable. There are some things like you mention the 16/33 threshold that will be difficult to overcome anytime soon. If you can free up the CPU/GPU from the latency insensitive tasks, then one would imagine that you could see gains in game due to it being solely dedicated to those latency sensitive tasks.

Obviously it will not be ideal in the real world, but I will applaud MS if they manage to push the envelope on this. It is the future imo. Maybe further off than we would like, but it's coming.
 
H

Hunter S.

Member
squicken said:
What was Kronke not doing to help the Avs win?
Click to expand...

He was keeping them at the Salary Cap minimum even though he is probably the richest owner in the league. One of the heirs to Walmart and many other businesses. He also owns the Nuggets and pays for them to be a top team every year, but neglected the Avalanche after the salary cap was introduced. Before that he payed for them to be one of the best and they were for about 10 years. Roy demanded he try to make them more competitive which means stop being a cheap fuck.
 
S

squicken

Member
Hunter S Thompson said:
He was keeping them at the Salary Cap minimum even though he is probably the richest owner in the league. One of the heirs to Walmart and many other businesses. He also owns the Nuggets and pays for them to be a top team every year, but neglected the Avalanche after the salary cap was introduced. Before that he payed to make them one of the best and they were for about 10 year.
Click to expand...

Yeah his dad owns the Rams and the NFL made him divest the Nuggets and Avs, so he did some weird thing where he "sold" it to his kid. Stan also owns Aresenal, and their fans bitch that he won't spend like ManU. Like you said, the Nuggets spend and so do the Rams. Arsenal spends but not like the Russian and Arab oil barons. Weird that the Avs are where they cheap out
 
H

Hunter S.

Member
So if the Wings win I am done watching the NHL playoffs this year. It is almost as bad as seeing Brady go so far in the playoffs every year.
 
B

Buckethead

Banned
Seeing posts from loud Wings fans on bookface talking shit about the Hawks is sure something.

On an unrelated note, I really need to go back to Mexico. Purely because I want some of their tortilla chips and salsa.
 
H

Hunter S.

Member
Buckethead said:
Seeing posts from loud Wings fans on bookface talking shit about the Hawks is sure something.

On an unrelated note, I really need to go back to Mexico. Purely because I want some of their tortilla chips and salsa.
Click to expand...

Yeah, true Mexican food is so much better than Tex Mex. Even if Tex Mex is good. Bad thing is you might get shot if you go close to the border cities. You got to stick to the party towns to be safe.

Edit: Okay, back to Dead Space 3!!!
 
B

bionic77

Member
Godslay said:
I'll leave this here for you Elfforkusu, just a research prototype, but shows that distributed AI can outperform local AI at high latency levels (~1 second). Beyond that local AI begins to perform better than the distributed AI. This was tested using a modified FPS (Quake III) setup. Interesting none the less.

http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/72894/NOSSDAV2007.pdf
Click to expand...
I wonder what the limitations of that are. How many consoles and games can they handle? Sounds like it will be prohibitively expensive to support this the more popular the console gets.

The AI stuff would be awesome though. AI and physics seem to be stuck at PS2 levels.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
If only there was some state, one of the newer ones, that was near Mexico and full of Mexicans and Mexican restaurants.

What a wondrous place that would be.
 
L

Lunchbox

Banned
football thread now shares a board with anime, men's fashion and post pics of yourself (omg you so cute) threads

we truly are in the ghetto now
 
G

Godslay

Banned
bionic77 said:
I wonder what the limitations of that are. How many consoles and games can they handle? Sounds like it will be prohibitively expensive to support this the more popular the console gets.

The AI stuff would be awesome though. AI and physics seem to be stuck at PS2 levels.
Click to expand...

As long as the control node (which is just a server itself), can handle keeping everything in order it should scale effectively. As more boxes are added the equation, it should be faster, assuming that they can break the work down small enough to spread over more boxes. Adding more boxes also helps for it to self heal. So if you distribute a workload to a box, and it either drops off or misses a time window to return the data the control node would pull it from another redundant worker box. Sounds like scifi shit, but there is a lot of research behind it. It's been around for awhile in other applications, BOINC being the most notable.
 
V

Vyroxis

Banned
So I just heard that Jarred Allen threatened to.walk if we asked him to restructure. If that's the case, good riddance to him. He is just beyond his prime, amd beginning his downhill slide into retirement. He may still be good, but with a younger team we can afford to get rid.of him and blame it on rebuilding.

Also, I may have talked my dad into selling me his 69 Vette finally. Happy day!
 
F

Fantomex

Member
Godslay said:
As long as the control node (which is just a server itself), can handle keeping everything in order it should scale effectively. As more boxes are added the equation, it should be faster, assuming that they can break the work down small enough to spread over more boxes. Adding more boxes also helps for it to self heal. So if you distribute a workload to a box, and it either drops off or misses a time window to return the data the control node would pull it from another redundant worker box. Sounds like scifi shit, but there is a lot of research behind it. It's been around for awhile in other applications, BOINC being the most notable.
Click to expand...

I like your optimism slay. But you forget that Microsoft only cares about a consumers overall experience if it makes them money. I might be pessimistic but I can already see two scenarios.

1. Networks are crashing - There's too many people on the cloud! We never expected this much success! Well be down for server maintenance every 3 days!

Or

2. Hey Microsoft my games lagging and taking its sweet ass time! - sorry guys, this is why we need more people on the cloud!

Either way it's spun as a positive. I'm glad they're doing the cloud thing but could it be it's too big of a part of their plan right now? Too much ridingn on it?
 
B

BannedEpisode

Member
Vyroxis said:
So I just heard that Jarred Allen threatened to.walk if we asked him to restructure. If that's the case, good riddance to him. He is just beyond his prime, amd beginning his downhill slide into retirement. He may still be good, but with a younger team we can afford to get rid.of him and blame it on rebuilding.

Also, I may have talked my dad into selling me his 69 Vette finally. Happy day!
Click to expand...

I like Jared a lot but Everson Griffen is the next man up.
 
V

Vyroxis

Banned
Allen was a godsend two years ago, but last year he sputtered. If he can't pick.it up this year, dumping him for cap room would be painful for his experience loss but needed. But of he can bounce back, keeping him around would be worth it.
 
L

Lunchbox

Banned
Vyroxis said:
Also, I may have talked my dad into selling me his 69 Vette finally. Happy day!
Click to expand...
lol a 69. I see these old ass hick types driving these smoke buggies like it means anything while they roll backwards on hills when it's red and I have to honk the shit out of them before they hit my kit

lease a German import if you want a status symbol
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Gaming side always does this. It turns into a pile-on of hive mind cynicism and paranoia, and eventually becomes a contest of who can make the dumbest, most hyperbolic sky-is-falling posts. Too many people there think everyone in the games industry, from the publishers to devs to the media are out to get them and it gets fucking nauseating after a while. Get a new hobby if you hate it and everyone involved in it that much.
 
V

Vyroxis

Banned
Lunchbox said:
lol a 69. I see these old ass hick types driving these smoke buggies like it means anything while they roll backwards on hills when it's red and I have to honk the shit out of them before they hit my kit

lease a German import if you want a status symbol
Click to expand...

Location location location. German imports where I live mean you have more money than common sense. But a 69 that runs right means you either care about car enough to have a good mechanic, or you are a good with a wrench and put the time in to keep it running.

For the record, my dads 69 doesn't slide down hills when at a red light. He maintained it right.
 
R

rando14

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Gaming side always does this. It turns into a pile-on of hive mind cynicism and paranoia, and eventually becomes a contest of who can make the dumbest, most hyperbolic sky-is-falling posts. Too many people there think everyone in the games industry, from the publishers to devs to the media are out to get them and it gets fucking nauseating after a while. Get a new hobby if you hate it and everyone involved in it that much.
Click to expand...

Agreed, it's a complete cesspool right now.
 
C

ChanHuk

Banned
Fantomex said:
Who hurt you chan? Who hurt you?
Click to expand...

I've had fake Mexican food, real Mexican food, and pseudo Mexican food. They all suck. Honestly Mexican food is overrated here more than any videogame or sports team. Seriously, its overrated. Fuck your mole, menudo, chile quilas, pazole, whatever. Its fuckin overrated, it sucks, eat some real food.
 
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