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NFL Training Camp/Preseason Thread 2012 - A Farewell to snes :(

S

squicken

Member
Is Vontae Davis a little slow? Gonna call grandma?

The teams have some editorial control over what gets shown. Like I have no idea if Sean Smith is an elite CB but he sure looks like one on Hard Knocks

I've thought the past two episodes kind of sucked. I guess its b/c I'm watching the inner workings of a shitty organization and a coach who I finally realized is the offensive version of Steve Spagnuolo. Spags loved his 4 pillars and wanted guys who "bought in" and ended up with a roster full of slow ass choir boys who couldn't throw, run, get open, block, sack the QB, tackle, cover, make kicks, return kickoffs, or punt the ball out of bounds. That will be the Phins this year
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
squicken said:
Is Vontae Davis a little slow? Gonna call grandma?

The teams have some editorial control over what gets shown. Like I have no idea if Sean Smith is an elite CB but he sure looks like one on Hard Knocks

I've thought the past two episodes kind of sucked. I guess its b/c I'm watching the inner workings of a shitty organization and a coach who I finally realized is the offensive version of Steve Spagnuolo. Spags loved his 4 pillars and wanted guys who "bought in" and ended up with a roster full of slow ass choir boys who couldn't throw, run, get open, block, sack the QB, tackle, cover, make kicks, return kickoffs, or punt the ball out of bounds. That will be the Phins this year
Click to expand...

Tae...is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Let's just say that.

Sean Smith has become a good cover guy, and can make plays on the ball. He just can't hold on to it. I don't know how many dropped INTs the Hard Knocks crew had to edit out, but he was a master of blown interceptions last season. He's physical though, and can at least tackle a guy. Vontae was sometimes shy of contact.

You prediction for our team sounds about right. There's been no QB pressure, poor coverage, terrible blocking and awful receivers. At least the play calling has looked competent, and Tannehill isn't the worst rookie QB I've seen. He's just gonna have his work cut out for him this season with next to no help from the line and receiving corp. Moore is probably happy he's 2nd string right now. He won't have to run for his life every snap. PEACE.
 
S

squicken

Member
That's the thing that sort of bugs me with Ireland and Philbin. Getting guys to play hard in buy in is what is often times referred to as "coaching". You don't just cut and trade people who won't do what you want. Good coaches find a way to reach those guys and maximize their talent. Not that they should have kept Ocho. But if Davis has above average man to man coverage skills then they didn't get enough

But Philbin has so gutted the roster there's no way to judge him for a year, unless the season is a train wreck. Houston's defense can really put a hurting on them. I can't see any reason why anyone would worry about getting beat by their WRs

edit: Randomly saw this photo twice today. Such a cool picture

ibsrGbN3feuaUP.png
 
S

storybook77

Member
So Chris Redman got cut and the Falcons signed Luke McCown....must be cheaper. Looks like Davis is going to get the chance to be the backup.

I'm definitely surprised.
 
A

Alligatorjandro

Banned
squicken said:
That's the thing that sort of bugs me with Ireland and Philbin. Getting guys to play hard in buy in is what is often times referred to as "coaching". You don't just cut and trade people who won't do what you want. Good coaches find a way to reach those guys and maximize their talent. Not that they should have kept Ocho. But if Davis has above average man to man coverage skills then they didn't get enough

But Philbin has so gutted the roster there's no way to judge him for a year, unless the season is a train wreck. Houston's defense can really put a hurting on them. I can't see any reason why anyone would worry about getting beat by their WRs

edit: Randomly saw this photo twice today. Such a cool picture

ibsrGbN3feuaUP.png
Click to expand...

Peyton looks young
 
B

BigAT

Member
squicken said:
That's the thing that sort of bugs me with Ireland and Philbin. Getting guys to play hard in buy in is what is often times referred to as "coaching". You don't just cut and trade people who won't do what you want. Good coaches find a way to reach those guys and maximize their talent. Not that they should have kept Ocho. But if Davis has above average man to man coverage skills then they didn't get enough

But Philbin has so gutted the roster there's no way to judge him for a year, unless the season is a train wreck. Houston's defense can really put a hurting on them. I can't see any reason why anyone would worry about getting beat by their WRs

edit: Randomly saw this photo twice today. Such a cool picture

ibsrGbN3feuaUP.png
Click to expand...

It's weird seeing pre-op Brady.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
NFL Wiki said:
26 of the 32 NFL teams are supported by their own professional cheerleading squads. These squads attend games and promote the team. The teams without cheerleading squads are the Pittsburgh Steelers, Cleveland Browns, Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, New York Giants, and Detroit Lions.
Click to expand...
I can understand why Pittsburgh doesn't have cheerleaders (can't have Ben sexually assault them on the field), but I'm pretty sure Lions have cheerleaders.
 
K

K-19

Banned
Few more stats to see who dropped the ball the most in 2011 or which QB has avoiding the most to be sacked:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/08/29/pff-signature-stats/

Eli get first to manage his pass under pressure. 2012, time to get elite?

---

What wrong with people on the internet?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...ndon-jacobs-responds-to-twitter-hate-messages


Brandon Jacobs has 16,000-plus followers on Twitter. Not all of them are friendly.

After the San Francisco 49ers running back injured his knee against the Houston Texans earlier this month, the MRI came back negative. When Jacobs tweeted about the positive results, he received a wave of good cheer. He also fielded some hatred.

"One person said, 'I hope you die a horrible death,' " Jacobs told Matt Maiocco of Comcast SportsNet Bay Area. "I tweeted him back saying, 'I'm sure my wife and my kids appreciate that. Have a good day.' It's stuff like that, it's uncalled for. There are some real dumb, stupid people out there."

Jacobs retweeted a handful of the rancorous tweets and hopes it sheds light on some of the white-noise pro athletes often deal with on Twitter. Seems unfair for Jacobs, whose kindness toward one young fan is well-documented.

"Everybody thinks this life is all easy, and you got to deal with nothing," Jacobs said. "I like for people to see what else is out there, what else we deal with as NFL players. Let them see what it is that we go through."​
 
T

TheLegendary

Member
Walteur said:
---

What wrong with people on the internet?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...ndon-jacobs-responds-to-twitter-hate-messages


Brandon Jacobs has 16,000-plus followers on Twitter. Not all of them are friendly.

After the San Francisco 49ers running back injured his knee against the Houston Texans earlier this month, the MRI came back negative. When Jacobs tweeted about the positive results, he received a wave of good cheer. He also fielded some hatred.

"One person said, 'I hope you die a horrible death,' " Jacobs told Matt Maiocco of Comcast SportsNet Bay Area. "I tweeted him back saying, 'I'm sure my wife and my kids appreciate that. Have a good day.' It's stuff like that, it's uncalled for. There are some real dumb, stupid people out there."

Jacobs retweeted a handful of the rancorous tweets and hopes it sheds light on some of the white-noise pro athletes often deal with on Twitter. Seems unfair for Jacobs, whose kindness toward one young fan is well-documented.

"Everybody thinks this life is all easy, and you got to deal with nothing," Jacobs said. "I like for people to see what else is out there, what else we deal with as NFL players. Let them see what it is that we go through."​
Click to expand...

Yeah, that one fan in the stands must've loved him after he gave him his helmet.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
Fucking Isaac is going to hang around for two more days and impact Lafayette a lot more than previously thought.
At least it wont flood too much here.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
ew more stats to see who dropped the ball the most in 2011 or which QB has avoiding the most to be sacked:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...gnature-stats/

Eli get first to manage his pass under pressure. 2012, time to get elite?
Click to expand...
I posted this one awhile back but worth revisiting:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/20/2011-pass-blocking-efficiency-offensive-tackles/

So you’ve seen the good, but what about the bad? The man who finished bottom of the entire NFL only saw 246 snaps at tackle after being forced to move there, yet, despite his flaws, walked out with a Super Bowl ring. David Diehl gave up four sacks, six hits and 20 hurries while spending 246 snaps in pass protection at left tackle, in stark contrast to the man he replaced, Will Beatty, who finished ‘up’ in 50th with a PBE rating of 93.6. Diehl was bad enough to leave Sam Baker, the benched Atlanta Falcons left tackle, with the second lowest rating after the former first round pick gave up four sacks, seven hits and 17 hurries on just 242 snaps in pass protection.
Click to expand...

But Signature Stats like pass blocking efficiency can explain those gradings and often reinforce what the eye sees when you really look; which OTs’ are giving up pressure on a regular basis. It explains why players like Sam Baker got benched and goes a long way to quantifying just how much of a slump Kareem McKenzie had this year.
Click to expand...

Words cannot express how much I want David Diehl gone after this season. Maybe he shows something on the right side this year and he changes my mind but he's been mediocre for some time now.

K-Mac was the bigger disappointment though. He was coming off of a year where he was our best lineman in 2010. He hit the wall HARD in 2011.:(
 
B

Bowser

Member
Futurevoid said:
I posted this one awhile back but worth revisiting:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/20/2011-pass-blocking-efficiency-offensive-tackles/





Words cannot express how much I want David Diehl gone after this season. Maybe he shows something on the right side this year and he changes my mind but he's been mediocre for some time now.

K-Mac was the bigger disappointment though. He was coming off of a year where he was our best lineman in 2010. He hit the wall HARD in 2011.:(
Click to expand...

Whatever man, I heard Eli had the best offensive line and running game in the league last year. Let's see him win a ring without those two like Ben!!!1111
 
B

bionic77

Member
Bowser said:
Whatever man, I heard Eli had the best offensive line and running game in the league last year. Let's see him win a ring without those two like Ben!!!1111
Click to expand...
Scott was just as bad if you look at their stats and he has supposedly been our best option at left tackle. Well until we drafted Adams, our big name guy who tries to block people by making angry faces at them (so far it doesn't appear to work as well as getting your hands on the defender, but 2 preseason games might not be enough to judge his technique). The guy they focused on for the Giants was their backup I believe.

Scott isn't healthy all the time so we have played even shittier players. Colon-blow was probably slightly worse than Scott, but man that is a tight race to the bottom.

Btw we had the same thing happen to us in 2008 when we won the superbowl with our 3rd or 4th string left tackle, Max Starks, who was actually decent.

You never know with backup offensive lineman.
 
B

bionic77

Member
BigAT said:
You forgot the elite, 27th ranked defense that carried him all season.
Click to expand...
They were a 7-7 team that lost to the Redskins more than once (by my estimate at least 6 of their losses came from the Redskins, one of the worst teams in the league).

Eli was great last year, but the reason they won the SB last year was the reason all the low seeds win, the shitty parts of the team caught fire at the end of the season and they got matchups that favored their personnel.

The exact opposite happened to the Steelers. Ben got hurt and so did key parts of the defense at the end of the season, leading to our epic collapse down the stretch.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
bionic77 said:
The guy they focused on for the Giants was their backup I believe.
Click to expand...
Diehl was the starting left guard until he was moved over to tackle when Will Beatty went down in week 6 if memory serves. He was worst at guard.:(

Before we inserted Will Beatty? David Diehl was the starting left tackle for years. That isn't a new position for him. He was the starting left tackle when we won the SB in '07. He's gotten progressively worst as time has gone on.

bionic77 said:
Eli was great last year, but the reason they won the SB last year was the reason all the low seeds win, the shitty parts of the team caught fire at the end of the season and they got matchups that favored their personnel.
Click to expand...
Yep, I don't disagree with you there. I would make one adjustment to that - the reason they were even in the playoffs was because of Eli. 6 of those 7 wins were won in the 4th quarter on his arm. Seriously, the Giants would have been Colts bad last season without him until the defense got healthy in the latter third of the year.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
How does playing Guard differ from playing Tackle? Does a Tackle have to be more mobile? Is a Guard more important in the run game? I have no clue about this.
 
T

Talon

Member
Milchjon said:
How does playing Guard differ from playing Tackle? Does a Tackle have to be more mobile? Is a Guard more important in the run game? I have no clue about this.
Click to expand...
Guards overall have to be more mobile because they often kick out on blocks for running plays - although this totally depends on the team.

Tackles have to move more laterally because they're not hedged on either side by a lineman on all plays. So good LT need to have quick feet and great balance so as not to get thrown off, leaving the play completely exposed.
 
B

bionic77

Member
Milchjon said:
How does playing Guard differ from playing Tackle? Does a Tackle have to be more mobile? Is a Guard more important in the run game? I have no clue about this.
Click to expand...
It goes like this:

TGCGT

Usually you have a right handed qb so the left tackle is the guy protecting his blind side. He has to be very quick on his feet to be able to deal with the pass rushers. Honestly offensive lineman should be good at pass and run blocking, but often they are just great in one area. And while left tackle gets most of the attention because he can be on an island, truthfully your line is only as good as its weakest link. If your center sucks you can't get any play off with defenders coming right up the middle.
 
T

Talon

Member
That said, Centers tend to be the weakest link physically on most teams, and teams get away with it because Centers almost never are put on an island. They really are the brains of the line, as they make the line adjustments that the QB can't always make.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
tj hazuki said:
Will David Wilson play Week 1? Thinking about starting him? I don't know.
Click to expand...
Likely but not as the starter. Bradshaw will start and Wilson will be his backup so I don't think he's a great option to start at the moment.
 
D

Draxal

Member
Futurevoid said:
Words cannot express how much I want David Diehl gone after this season. Maybe he shows something on the right side this year and he changes my mind but he's been mediocre for some time now.

K-Mac was the bigger disappointment though. He was coming off of a year where he was our best lineman in 2010. He hit the wall HARD in 2011.:(
Click to expand...

Ya, Diehl was horrid both at guard/tackle, I gotta disagree with you on K-mac, he was good 2010, but Seubert was easily the mvp, I was so bummed about him getting cut last year.
 
B

bionic77

Member
Speaking of line play, is there a stat for how often teams keep a tight end back there to help blocking when the regular unit is failing spectacularly?

It seems to me that more than talent you need great line coaching because it seems like the great coaches can coach up anyone to be serviceable.
 
B

Bowser

Member
tj hazuki said:
Okay, cool. I'll probably start Mike Tolbert then.
Click to expand...

While the Panthers have said they have a multitude of formations/packages for Tolbert that we're not unveiling in the preseason, I'm not sure that's a great idea. He's vying for touches against 3 other guys (Newton/Williams/Stewart) and he's definitely 4th on the list of importance in terms of touches. I think Wilson would be a better play than Tolbert, at least until we see how the Panthers utilize Tolbert for a week or two.
 
T

Talon

Member
bionic77 said:
It seems to me that more than talent you need great line coaching because it seems like the great coaches can coach up anyone to be serviceable.
Click to expand...
Everyone bitches about their offensive line.

And nobody notices when a pass rusher has done nothing all game.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
bionic77 said:
Speaking of line play, is there a stat for how often teams keep a tight end back there to help blocking when the regular unit is failing spectacularly?

It seems to me that more than talent you need great line coaching because it seems like the great coaches can coach up anyone to be serviceable.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't think the Saints Oline is all that great besides Jahri and Carl Nicks (who is now gone to the bucs) but Brees has a great bility to elude the sack and he makes them look good. Also there is a lot of chipping going on in the Saints offense and they do it well.
 
T

Talon

Member
cajunator said:
I honestly don't think the Saints Oline is all that great besides Jahri and Carl Nicks (who is now gone to the bucs) but Brees has a great bility to elude the sack and he makes them look good. Also there is a lot of chipping going on in the Saints offense and they do it well.
Click to expand...
Bushrod is shit. It's hilarious that he made the Pro Bowl.
 
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