DeaconKnowledge
Member
Changing your system to benefit a short term solution is what bad/hot seat coaches do.
The consistency angle might be maddening for fans, but fans are idiots who always think the guy who isn't playing is better.
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NFL Week 13 |OT| My Favorite Things
- Thread starter Buckethead
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The consistency angle might be maddening for fans, but fans are idiots who always think the guy who isn't playing is better.
ie. There are actually Browns fans who are demanding Colt McCoy start.
He had really bad fumble problems at the time. With the Giants it was due to their unbelievably bad offensive line, but even in his last few years with STL he didn't protect the ball well enough.
Futurevoid
Member
Nope. Signed in 2004, literally two days after the Rams released him.squicken said:
It took some serious convincing by Acorsi, Reese, Coughlin and John Mara for Wellington Mara to sign off on the Eli draft, too. Wellington still had a serious sense of loyalty towards Kerry Collins at that point.
Squall ASF
Member
Sorry bro, we're in tank for pick mode now. If you thought our OL has looked bad before, now we don't even have a Center. Hilarity will ensue. Poor little rookie Lindley.
jnc! a backup RB is out and it hurts so bad! /NFLfirstworldproblems
Thanks for the info Giants fans. For the record, I still don't believe in you guys and won't even as they make another SB
As far as Warner and his fumbles, at least in STL, we've all seen what Mike Martz thinks about protection schemes. Warner always said the guy that made it work in STL was Pace
As far as Warner and his fumbles, at least in STL, we've all seen what Mike Martz thinks about protection schemes. Warner always said the guy that made it work in STL was Pace
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
I miss Kurt Warner. Such a stand up guy. He was the Tebow of his time but he was actually amazing at points in his career.
BaltimoreLarry
Member
I'm home from work today because I had a foot procedure done, and I just noticed that I'm wearing the Battle Red Day T shirt from Houston's ass kicking of the Ravens. Must be the painkillers.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Indeed. Kurt Warner was the man.
Futurevoid
Member
We thank you for support!squicken said:
You should throw in a fire Coughlin though.Banged up Oline after a very physical game against SF. Short week. thurday night on the road vs a hated rival we upset once this year already.
Gonna call this one a loss.
They gotta be more original though. Philly fans egged the Saints bus first (in a divisional playoff game)
Gonna call this one a loss.
They gotta be more original though. Philly fans egged the Saints bus first (in a divisional playoff game)
I don't think this is necessarily true, our offense that year was brutally bad and complex. Our system wasn't necesarrily designed for Eli, but was just extremely complex and our wr's never could get open. Which ended up Warner getting sacked a trillion times and fumbling, and when he got benched Eli was goddamn awful (see the Ravens game). I hoenstly thought it was an indictment on our wr corps (including Shockey .... who is probably the dumbest player to ever play in the league), and our coaching's staff rigidity on failing to adjust the scheme to the personnel (and if you hear Warner talk about Eli on the NFL Network ... he sounds extremely bitter about the entire stituation).
FIRE COUGHLIN!!
Warner is kind of an odd player. Like if you put him on the 2003 Falcons, he would never have the personal or team success that they had with Vick. He has to have weapons. But once he does, then there aren't many QBs who can play at his level. So he's limited b/c he can't take bad players and make them good, but who could max out Holt, Bruce, and Fitz like Warner did?
Warner is kind of an odd player. Like if you put him on the 2003 Falcons, he would never have the personal or team success that they had with Vick. He has to have weapons. But once he does, then there aren't many QBs who can play at his level. So he's limited b/c he can't take bad players and make them good, but who could max out Holt, Bruce, and Fitz like Warner did?
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Sorry Texan fans, but New England and San Fran knock you out of the bye:
The four vs. five matchup in the AFC would be insane if it happened, especially if Luck and company pulled off the victory.
The four vs. five matchup in the AFC would be insane if it happened, especially if Luck and company pulled off the victory.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I dunno. Saints own the Falcons. I'll be surprised in the Falcons win this one.
Futurevoid
Member
Go read Vachianno's book on the making of Eli, his draft and the way he was brought into the system. The offense was designed for the QB they drafted. Coughlin would tell you today that his approach initially with Eli initially was too fast and too much. Ralph contrasts it with the way Pittsburgh handled Ben. Ben was given small "portions" of the offense to digest and allowed to grow into it as he matured. Coughlin did what he himself referred to as a complete "info dump" with Manning. His view was that he would give Eli everything he could very quickly and assess what did or did not stick. This led to alot of the early struggles Eli had because he was running a very complex offense and hadn't grasped it as fully as Coughlin and the coaching staff thought he would. That was adjusted throughout the 2004 season and 2005 season specifically.Draxal said:
Giants fans conspiracy theory nonsense. Sorry. Not an insult to you personally (please don't take it as such) but more a general statement because of the the way its presented. As if Warner has some beef with Eli and he holds a grudge and that's just not true. Any competitor worth their salt and in Warner's position would have wanted more of an opportunity but Warner was nothing but a class act when he was a Giant and at no point in his tenure was there any kind of friction between the two. Warner knew why he was there.Draxal said:
Part of the "Warner doesn't like Eli and is bitter" stuff comes from the fact that Warner said Eli wasn't a Hall of Famer after the 2011 Super Bowl win and of course, Giants fans went into an uproar. Nevermind that he was right.
Do not understand this, just like the ridiculous posturing some Texans fans were doing last week.
Why are you 'calling' for a loss? Are you trying to mitigate your eventual disappointment? Is it an omission that your team really does suck?
No matter how garbo the Niners have been I would never call for a loss even if it appeared to be an almost certainty.
Buck up man! Call for a win right damn now. No excuses, play like a champion.
It's unbelievable to me. Mad props.
edit: It be nice to have an actual No.2 receiver that was half as good an Andre. Kevin is ok, but for real.
The drop off is ridiculous.
Right, but the fact that the two qb's struggled miserably in that offence (Eli was forced in way too early because Warner was horrible), was a failure of the staff at the time, and let's not forget about the primadonnas on the O (Toomer/Shockey and Barber). I remember Warner just holding and holding on to the ball as nobody would ever get open. Nobody would of been a good qb in that early system with the talent we had and that's why Huff got canned. I actually did read that book a couple of years back, but I never take anything Vacciano says as gospel, remember he is the most sensatialonist of the Giant's beat writers.
Too much shit went wrong this year.
Plus this Falcons team is good enough that we wont sweep them.
If we were healthier I would say the Saints have a shot but teams struggle a lot on the road after physical games. Especially on a really short week. They played sunday afternoon and will now play Thursday night.
Call it whatever. Ill be at work watching it and the last thing I need is high expectations followed by disappointment. That fucks up my mood and I need to be able to work efficiently.
If it matters that much Ill just say. FUCK THE FALCONS. I HOPE WE POKE A HOLE IN YOUR CIRCUS TENT.
Spectral Glider
Member
They're not an overly impressive regular season team, but they certainly match up very well against the Niners and Packers, as we've seen. We'll see if they still have the Falcons number too. The two teams they do struggle with, Skins and Boys, probably won't make the tournament. And they're defending champs, until somebody knocks them out, they're the team to beat in the NFC IMO.
Futurevoid
Member
If you read the book, I'm not sure how Ralph being what he is has anything to do with it. The book wasn't written as a sensationalist piece. A good bit of it are pure and direct quotes from Acorsi, Coughlin and the rest of the involved parties. I've little reason to doubt his sources. Much less when one in particular is admitting his own mistakes in the handling of his young QB.Draxal said:
He's trying to be the anti Dirtbag. It won't work cajun! You will not make me respect a Saints fan!
J/K You are one of the few Saints fans I actually can respect
storybook77
Member
You're no Katrina!
Newton Crosby
Banned
Ugh Saints and Falcons, whoever wins we all lose.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
I think Warner could make the HoF someday but I have a hard time putting him in before Eli. So maybe they'll both make it someday?
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Agreed. That's how I see the Pats in the AFC as well until proven otherwise (go Texans!).
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Oh Snewton
Gully State
Member
Why? Warner would be eligible for the HOF before Eli...
storybook77
Member
I'll definitely disagree here, is this incredibly overblown like the Tiki Barber nonsense was? Was he a good teammate, yes (and Yes Tiki Barber was a good teammate who saved Coughlin's job). In his post football career, was he given a high profile position that kinda requires him to say controverisal things (like Amani Toomer), yes.
Kurt completely toasted Eli in the 2010 season (HE WAS THE WORST QB I'VE EVER SEEN), and never mentioned the failing of the Giants organization as a whole during that period. That's what most Giant fans were bitter of him about.
Good write up on Texans bootleg play action:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/44189/the-dangers-of-houstons-boot-throwback-play
I see this play in my mind with the Benny Hill music playing. Im always amazed how well Schaub and the offense execute the play action game and how defenders always seem to bite on it. Packers actually had good discipline and did not get sucked in as much.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/44189/the-dangers-of-houstons-boot-throwback-play
I see this play in my mind with the Benny Hill music playing. Im always amazed how well Schaub and the offense execute the play action game and how defenders always seem to bite on it. Packers actually had good discipline and did not get sucked in as much.
On one of Brees interceptions I think he tried to bait the 49ers linebacker and the dude didnt fall for it, and he got the pick six. Usually the baiting works though. I guess thats a risk a QB takes by doing that. Oftentimes its either a huge gain or a possible pick six. Still looks awful and is a gamekiller when it goes wrong.
I would think part of that issue was the Saints dont have much of a running threat unlike Houston with Foster. His presence and what he is done prior worries some defenses and I feel they are more prone to bite.
Newton Crosby
Banned
Jags fan.
yankeehater
Member
What the fuck! The Eagles only do one thing well and that is beat the Giants.
Futurevoid
Member
You really going to compare Warner commenting on Eli (during a 25 interception year) to Tiki Barber? Really?Draxal said:
The comments Tiki made about Eli are one thing but at least for this Giants fan - it isn't the reason he deserves a FUCK TIKI at every turn. Him submarining the 2006 season by announcing his retirement like a little bitch is what did him in for me. Add the comments about Eli afterwards and it's understandable why he has the ire of Giants fan and well deserved ire. That you're willing to write off Tiki's comment because was given a high profile job but are upset about Warner doing the same in his high profile media job is just odd, dude.
The two situations are not even remotely comparable in my eyes outside of that. Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree here for sure.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
fraud
VeryGooster
Banned
The Kurt Warner conversation about Eli is about as meaningless as the Phil Simms "He's not elite" stuff from last week or so.
They do have several good backs, but they are definitely way underused.
I guess because the team is so good at passing, they even convert 3rd and short with passing plays half the time. The problem I have with them is they CAN run. They have shown in the recent past that they can be a good running team but they have an Eagles-like phobia of running the ball. So then Brees has to basically play excellent football every single game to keep them in it. But the defenders can then sit back in the passing lanes and lock him up because he's short. Its a tough situation. If he had an Adrian Petersen or arian Foster type of RB where Oline play really doesnt matter much, the play action would be deadly. If you watch us play, even when the play fake works, Brees still has to hold on to it a bit because the defense never really believes we are going to run.
Tiki Barber was the best Giant's player from 2000-2005, who had to provide a controversial opinion on the spot when prompted by Bob Costas, and was clearly put on the spot. And what he said wasn't that bad, was an early Eli probably comical as a leader, yes, we all know he's a gooofy fuck. It's incredibly overblown like the entire Warner thing was, and whatever Toomer said this year. Am I upset at Warner, no but I don't think he likes Eli, because he's always been negative about Eli and barely has said anything good about him. Tiki was a complete loyal soldier to the Giants (remember his feud with Strahan in the 2002 offseason)? he was completely burnt out by Coughlin and (remember pre 2007 Coughlin was hated by the players).
And Barber saved 2006, we lost in 2006 playoffs because we had street free agents in the linebacking corps.
BannedEpisode
Member
People like my roommates will say that the curse still happened because Megatron had a booboo that nagged him and he didnt have 25 TD's.
Futurevoid
Member
How much of a joke must his organization be to lose to an franchise that isn't taken seriously? By a "non-legend" goober QB.....twice?tmdorsey said:
.Gooster said:
Yeah, not surprising.
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