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NFL WEEK 15 |OT| Everybody Stinks

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vedderlax11

Neo Member
tmdorsey said:
Ok, I'll bite. Why do you think Luck is more impressive?

For the record, I think they both are impressive.
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Reminds me of the Dalton - Cam debate last year (not that there was much debate outside of Cincy fans). Leadership/victories vs. great stats and measurable independent performance. I think a difference here is that RGIII has both.

I don't think the Colts nor the Skins would trade their guy for the other though.
 
T

tmdorsey

Member
Squall ASF said:
You are now officially a joke poster.



As for the Luck and RGIII conversation, why is it so hard to see why some find Luck more impressive than RGIII? RGIII is a great athlete that's putting up good numbers, but that's it. Luck is literally generating wins for his team who has a better record and is coming off of the worst record in the league. When you watch him play, you appreciate the decision making, the command, and his presence. He just makes things happen, including in the clutch ala the Lions game. RGIII has been supplemented by a solid run game and decent OL, what does Luck really have to work with? Bottom feeders and raw youth. Wade is the only mentionable name. So while RGIII deserves plenty of praise and Redskin fans should be very happy they have him, there's no question to me that Luck is the better QB and I would choose him over RGIII in a heartbeat. God what I'd give to have a young QB that you just know will be a perennial winner and top talent sooner than later /cards problems
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You can argue that the run is decent because of RGIII and he's also generating wins for his team. As far as record goes, Luck also has the fortune of playing in the AFC not to mention a division with the Jags and Titans.

Again, I think they are both are pretty much equally impressive and the differences really boil down to the fact that they are on 2 differently ran/coached teams.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Haven't really paid much attention to him, but Cam appears to be a good QB (with some maturity issues) on a horrible team. Always assumed the criticisms were joke posting based on his lack of wins.

yankeehater said:
Football outsiders has them ranked 17th in pass protection so maybe not bad but definitely not good. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
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So they're average then.

Poor O-line performance is on Arians. As you said the routes take forever to develop, and he only ever runs out of run formations with TE brackets so it's easy for opposing defenses to spot. He rarely uses play action to keep the D guessing either.
 
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eznark

Banned
vedderlax11 said:
Reminds me of the Dalton - Cam debate last year (not that there was much debate outside of Cincy fans). Leadership/victories vs. great stats and measurable independent performance. I think a difference here is that RGIII has both.

I don't think the Colts nor the Skins would trade their guy for the other though.
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Neither Dalton nor Cam is anywhere near as good (or as polished) as Luck/RGIII
 
C

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
tmdorsey said:
Fair enough. I do have to wonder how much Morris(who I think is the Redskins only other threat on offense besides RGIII benefits the threat of RGIII running the ball)
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He benefits greatly. I hold firm to my belief that if Shanahan keeps running RG3, though, he's going to end up like the below mentioned quarterback.
yankeehater said:
Vick. People keep saying the Bills are the team most likely to sign him but I dont believe it. I think if Whiz is back, bringing in Vick is the clear coach desperate to save his job move.
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I'm not kidding about this, Minnesota should sign Vick. He's going to be their best option to not waste AD's best years (assuming Alex Smith isn't released). Just get an oc who will run the simplified Harbro west coast offense and that team wins 10+ games. It's also in Vick's best interest to run a simpler offense and not Whiz' where he'll take just as many hits as in Reid's.
 
B

Bowser

Member
Added the Manning bros btw:

OuMWd.jpg
 
S

Squall ASF

Member
squicken said:
Didn't you also say this when you were 4-0 and I told you your team would miss the playoffs?
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Look at what your reasoning was and then look at what actually happened. I will still laugh at the comments you made. With Kolb alone, we'd have made the playoffs, easily.

In any case, that's a different beast, there's always room for arguing if a team will continue to win. There is not a single sane person on the planet that would argue Garcon should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Fitz. It deserves to be discussed as much as who is better between Rodgers and Skelton. It's preposterous and I won't entertain the notion any further.
 
S

squicken

Member
Squall ASF said:
Look at what your reasoning was and then look at what actually happened. I will still laugh at the comments you made. With Kolb alone, we'd have made the playoffs, easily.

.
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I don't intend to cause discord. You guys got slammed by injuries and who really knows what could have happened
 
B

Bowser

Member
eznark said:
What is significant about the last six games?
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Arbitrary. It's when Cam started to really put things together. When I first started this exercise, I wanted to see how he compared in that span to other QBs that are generally well regarded. Did a few and then I just started adding more names to see how the performance has been.

DeaconKnowledge said:
I assume that since it's Bowser posting it that Cam started throwing less picks.
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Yeah basically. 5 of the 6 games he's had no turnovers!
 
S

SonnyBoy

Member
tmdorsey said:
Fair enough. I do have to wonder how much Morris(who I think is the Redskins only other threat on offense besides RGIII benefits the threat of RGIII running the ball)
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If there was no threat of a running game, the LB's wouldn't freeze like they do.

If there was no threat that RGIII could accurately throw the ball, they'd sell out for Morris.

If RGIII wasn't a threat to run, the DE's would wreak havoc on our offensive line. A line that struggles when RGIII has to traditionally drop back and pass. It'll get a lot of attention in the offseason.
 
S

squicken

Member
Pro Football Focus ‏@PFF
Christian Ponder has thrown for just 1003 yards in the air this season. Andrew Luck has thrown for 2,430 yards in the air.

The Rams losing to Ponder would be worse than losing to Sanchez. Bustford needs to just not fuck up and they should coast
 
M

mr2xxx

Banned
Redskins pass pro isn't much better than Colts actually it could be considered worse. Redskins have a higher sack rate (8.2% to 6.4%), despite RG3 being more mobile, quicker passes, and a better run game. Only reason Colts stats look so much worse is because Luck has thrown it over 200 times more. In other words Shanny knows how bad we are and adjusted accordingly, while Arians hasn't.
 
B

Bowser

Member
Back to the whole Luck/RG3 debate, found this interesting:

1. Robert Griffin III, QB, WAS (+28.4)

How much easier do you think Redskin fans are sleeping with the news RG3 suffered a sprain of his LCL. That looked a lot worse then it turned out being, but it still has to be a worry with a rejuvenated Browns team to visit this week. In any case, Griffin remains the top rookie out there. A combination of big plays and a lack of mistakes. Yeah, that works.

2. Russell Wilson, QB, SEA (+22.9)

Maybe it was the comedown after a big win or maybe he just didn’t need to play well, in any case we’ve seen better from Wilson. That said Seattle only needed him to throw the ball 13 times so maybe he was resting himself up for the games to come?

3. Andrew Luck, QB, IND (+2.8)

Depending on your perspective, there’s a skill (or luckiness) in saving your best for when it matters the most. After all, if you could just switch it on why wouldn’t you do it all the time? Luck wins games. Can’t deny it. And he has some genuinely impressive moments that excite you for the future. However, there’s so many off target balls that you have to think his charmed existence isn’t going to carry on forever.
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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/11/race-for-rookie-of-the-year-week-14/
 
S

Squall ASF

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
With Kolb? :jnc okay
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Yes, take a look at his QB rating and how we averaged over 20 PPG with him in. With Kolb instead of Skelton and Lindley, there's no doubt we'd have beaten ATL and the Jets but I'd also bet money we'd have beaten Minny and STL the second time we played them. That's 8 wins and I'm sure we'd take out the lowly Lions this week with him which would bring us to 9. Last week would have been a hell of a lot more competitive and anyone's game without all the freakin turnovers Skelly and Lindley caused. No one is trying to argue Kolb is a great QB, but he was efficient and winning us games much the same way small hands did for SF last year. He's competent enough until we find our true franchise QB provided we can upgrade the line to keep him on the field in the interim.

It's woulda coulda shoulda but is relevant when addressing Squicken's original comment about us making the playoffs back in the first few weeks of the season.

Sexually Aggressive Uncle said:
I really kind of wish the Seattle-Arizona game didn't get out of hand so quickly. Russell Wilson could've beasted on Sunday otherwise.
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Not against this D he wouldn't. Them might have given a fuck if the offense didn't turn the ball over every other possession. We'll see what little Russy is made of next season. He ran for his life more than he threw the ball the first time we met but that was his debut and it's unfair to judge a kid on that game. I'd give rookies slack the whole first season if it wasn't for all the hype.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Squall ASF said:
Yes, take a look at his QB rating and how we averaged over 20 PPG with him in. With Kolb instead of Skelton and Lindley, there's no doubt we'd have beaten ATL and the Jets but I'd also bet money we'd have beaten Minny and STL the second time we played them. That's 8 wins and I'm sure we'd take out the lowly Lions this week with him which would bring us to 9. No one is trying to argue Kolb is a great QB, but he was efficient and winning us games much the same way small hands did for SF last year. He's competent enough until we find our true franchise QB provided we can upgrade the line to keep him on the field in the interim.

It's woulda coulda shoulda but is relevant when addressing Squicken's original comment about us making the playoffs back in the first few weeks of the season.



Not against this D he wouldn't. Them might have given a fuck if the offense didn't turn the ball over every other possession. We'll see what little Russy is made of next season. He ran for his life more than he threw the ball the first time we met but that was his debut and it's unfair to judge a kid on that game. I'd give rookies slack the whole first season if it wasn't for all the hype.
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I think you can definitely claim at least a portion of the championshipn this year for sure
 
S

Squall ASF

Member
eznark said:
I think you can definitely claim at least a portion of the championshipn this year for sure
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Hey now, I didn't say anything about making noise IN the playoffs, just that we would have gotten in there. Do you disagree? If you watched how those games went and at how Kolb was playing, is it such a stretch to say we'd have won the games I mentioned?
 
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