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NFL Week 16 |OT| The Comeback is Bigger than the Win

L

LJ11

Member
I think their OL is crafty when it comes to holding, more subtle but it's there. Seem like they do a good job turning their guy in the direction they want, but when the defender tries to shed or change direction towards the play they tug him or use a subtle arm hook as they let go to get them off balance. Really noticed it the last two weeks.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
LJ11 said:
I think their OL is crafty when it comes to holding, more subtle but it's there. Seem like they do a good job turning their guy in the direction they want, but when the defender tries to shed or change direction towards the play they tug him or use a subtle arm hook as they let go to get them off balance. Really noticed it the last two weeks.
Click to expand...

it was pretty blatant on a few of the big edge runs early. but whatever, everyone gets away with offensive holding.... it's just when it's that wide open and has a direct effect on the play its a tough pill to swallow as the other team
 
T

Talon

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
it was pretty blatant on a few of the big edge runs early. but whatever, everyone gets away with offensive holding.... it's just when it's that wide open and has a direct effect on the play its a tough pill to swallow as the other team
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I've turned my brain off to identifying holding. I'm a much happier fan.
 
S

squicken

Member
DMczaf said:
5sMrH.gif
Click to expand...

I do admire the Bucs for letting Freeman air it out. They needed to figure out if he was the guy, and he didn't pass the test. At least they have identified a proble, and not stuck their head in the sand that it would get better
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Well, that game sucked donkey balls.

that crowd noise was ridiculous. Niners looked a bit rattled all night. I was afraid of that after the NE win but was hoping they'd be up for this one.

Would be shocked if they lost to Zona and lose the division, but the bye seems much less likely now with GB's easy matchup next week.

GG Seattle.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
LJ11 said:
I think their OL is crafty when it comes to holding, more subtle but it's there. Seem like they do a good job turning their guy in the direction they want, but when the defender tries to shed or change direction towards the play they tug him or use a subtle arm hook as they let go to get them off balance. Really noticed it the last two weeks.
Click to expand...
Tom Cable is a really good line coach!
 
M

MechDX

Member
Black Mamba said:
Well, that game sucked donkey balls.

that crowd noise was ridiculous. Niners looked a bit rattled all night. I was afraid of that after the NE win but was hoping they'd be up for this one.

Would be shocked if they lost to Zona and lose the division, but the bye seems much less likely now with GB's easy matchup next week.

GG Seattle.
Click to expand...

Huh? Rodgers, Brady and Ponder! All Elite.
 
C

Canuck76

Banned
FrenchMovieTheme said:
i don't care about the VD play, wasn't talking about that one. it was rightfully called a penalty by the way the rule wants it called. goldson was called for the same personal foul last week. but the manningham play the guy is already wrapped up and your player goes at his legs. ridiculous.

and if you want to talk about uncalled penalties, take a look at seattles offensive line and their defensive backs. absolutely baffling how they don't get called for this shit. wussle can magically run around for 10 seconds and no holding calls even though guys are basically being tackled by your line. then your DB's mug our receivers (just like they did in SF) with no call. crabtree made a great catch on one of them with sherman arm raking him and all over him but no flag. it was like this all night. thankfully that cheater sherman wont be around in the playoffs
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Sorry, is gang tackling not allowed? Dude wasn't down yet and where's a good place to tackle and wrap someone up? The legs? No your right, he should have gone helmet to helmet.

Also DB's are just making plays on the ball. I didn't see any reciever impeded at all. Literally your WR's need to hold onto the ball and actively make a play before one of our stud CB's does. If you don't want any handfighting, don't start the handfighting. I mean I'm sorry. We have a good secondary, they're not going to sit back and wait for someone to catch a ball.

Also there was a hell of a lot of times your LB's had God knows how long, and were completely unimpeded, like no players even trying to block them, and yet Russell is so elusive even damn near 6 people can't tackle him. Trying to blame our o-line for that is comical

Maybe some tackling drills in practice next time? I don't know.
 
B

bluemax

Banned
LJ11 said:
I think their OL is crafty when it comes to holding, more subtle but it's there. Seem like they do a good job turning their guy in the direction they want, but when the defender tries to shed or change direction towards the play they tug him or use a subtle arm hook as they let go to get them off balance. Really noticed it the last two weeks.
Click to expand...

That's why we pay Tom Cable the big bucks.
 
O

overcast

Member
B For Bendetta said:
So we could get the boatload of other players. And it would cost way too much to get rid of Sam
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Last part is probably true, but RG3 looks about 5 times the QB Bradford is. Strangely enough, I feel like our WR's have been solid all year and the defense has shown some great signs. Bradford is nothing more than a sub-par QB. He's destined to be like 20th in every category.
 
S

squicken

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
it was pretty blatant on a few of the big edge runs early. but whatever, everyone gets away with offensive holding.... it's just when it's that wide open and has a direct effect on the play its a tough pill to swallow as the other team
Click to expand...

offensive holding is so poorly called, and justin smith gives you no right on this (aldon got exposed last 6 quarters). But their clutch and grabbing is absurd, and that cheap shot on Manningham is nuts. I'm surprised the players didn't seem to care. Maybe they will when they see a replay
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
Tabris said:
So with the AFC literally decided except for 1-2-3 for bye week, who's your AFC favourite?
Click to expand...

Broncos

I'd love to say Texans, but BWHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHA :(
 
L

LJ11

Member
squicken said:
Dealing with the Sportscenter Rams fans on this topic is never ending. It can be explained a million times and nothing will get through
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It wouldn't have cost them much to draft Griffin, negligible amount, but you pass on picks and invest a lot more money in the QB position even though most of it is a sunk cost at this point. Whatever, as long as they nail a few of the extra picks and pick up a replacement QB down the road they'll be in a better position to compete but if Griffin does what's expected of him, the fans will never forget. It'll take a QB of equal talent to get them to forget.

Still, they got a shitload by moving back three picks or so. Two first round talents with their top two choices, and they have 4 first round selections in the next two drafts. Ammo to add talent or to move up and choose a QB if they feel the need to. Much more flexibility, but they had to pass up on what might be a generational talent, or not, too soon to write the book.
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
Buckethead said:
Lets talk about how Chancellors hit on VD was completely legal and Goodell and his pussy refs are ruining football.
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This is the biggest problem in the game of football in this day and age. Goodell is trying to appease the lawyers and idiots who actually think hitting someone in the chest as opposed to the head will reduce head injuries.

The game of football is a violent and dirty sport. You will never be able to rid the game of head injuries unless you ban hits and turn the league into flag football. Chancellor hit VD clean in the chest as per the new NFL rulebook, yet VD hit his head violently on the ground due to the hit. How do you stop that? The only way would be to remove tackling.

These type of penalties are the biggest threat to the game of football, not the hits themselves.
 
S

squicken

Member
LJ11 said:
It wouldn't have cost them much to draft Griffin, negligible amount, but you pass on picks and invest a lot more money in the QB position even though most of it is a sunk cost at this point. Whatever, as long as they nail a few of the extra picks and pick up a replacement QB down the road they'll be in a better position to compete but if Griffin does what's expected of him, the fans will never forget. It'll take a QB of equal talent to get them to forget.

Still, they got a shitload by moving back three picks or so. Two first round talents with their top two choices, and they have 4 first round selections in the next two drafts. Ammo to add talent or to move and choose a QB if they feel the need to. Much more flexibility, but they had to pass up on what might be a generational talent, or not, too soon to write the book.
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As far as sunk cost they would have had to put him on the bench. Couldn't have traded or cut him. So far that trade is Jenkins + the next two first round picks. But you are right about the fans. Bradford will never be as good as RG3 and the fans will never forget.

Still, my concerns about Griffin are the same then as now. Knocked out of two games and missed one. His replacement threw for 300 yards in the game he missed. There are no free lunches in STL. That offense doesn't scheme open WRs downfield, and while RG3 has had the same 5 starters on the OL every game, how would he have looked behind 10 different starters in STL?

Heck if I was going to be a bitter Rams fan I'd be upset they didn't grab Wilson
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
BravesCountry said:
I'm not saying Matt Ryan is a world beater but I think I'd rather have him than Stafford for the foreseeable future.
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Matt Ryan is a stud and one of the best young QBs in the league. You can't go wrong either way. Stafford has a stronger arm IMO and is younger so I'd take him but both are great.
 
L

LJ11

Member
squicken said:
As far as sunk cost they would have had to put him on the bench. Couldn't have traded or cut him. So far that trade is Jenkins + the next two first round picks. But you are right about the fans. Bradford will never be as good as RG3 and the fans will never forget.

Still, my concerns about Griffin are the same then as now. Knocked out of two games and missed one. His replacement threw for 300 yards in the game he missed. There are no free lunches in STL. That offense doesn't scheme open WRs downfield, and while RG3 has had the same 5 starters on the OL every game, how would he have looked behind 10 different starters in STL?

Heck if I was going to be a bitter Rams fan I'd be upset they didn't grab Wilson
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right, put him on the Rams and the results will likely be different. Same story for most of these rookie QBs.
 
B

BravesCountry

Banned
Kastrioti said:
Matt Ryan is a stud and one of the best young QBs in the league. You can't go wrong either way. Stafford has a stronger arm IMO and is younger so I'd take him but both are great.
Click to expand...

Stafford's arm strength really is a beautiful thing. there's no subjectivity concerned, he has better arm strength than Ryan. Matty boy will never have top tier arm strength but he has done an admirable job without it. Their ages are similar enough where the age difference doesn't bother me, Matt could still have a longer career than Stafford, who knows.
 
S

squicken

Member
NawidA said:
They really did a great job with Wilson. You literally could not bring up a QB better than that.
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I hate Pete but they did fantastic with Wilson. It's a great situation for him. He doesn't have to do everything for them to win. They catered the offense to his skills. I don't think he'll ever be a guy like Brady or Rodgers where you can ask him to throw it 45 times and consistently win games.

I don't know the Raiders roster but I get the sense that they need to get their cap right and their offense purged before moving on to the QB position. Palmer probably needs to caretaker another year while the pieces get moved around
 
N

NawidA

Banned
squicken said:
I hate Pete but they did fantastic with Wilson. It's a great situation for him. He doesn't have to do everything for them to win. They catered the offense to his skills. I don't think he'll ever be a guy like Brady or Rodgers where you can ask him to throw it 45 times and consistently win games.

I don't know the Raiders roster but I get the sense that they need to get their cap right and their offense purged before moving on to the QB position. Palmer probably needs to caretaker another year while the pieces get moved around
Click to expand...
We are fucked until Manning retires anyway so we can really play the long game.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
squicken said:
Heck if I was going to be a bitter Rams fan I'd be upset they didn't grab Wilson
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Predraft:
nfl.com said:
Strengths

Wilson is an accurate passer. He is a very mechanical quarterback who is consistent in his drop step and thoroughly understands how to move within the pocket and evade when the pocket collapses. He is an athlete and can torque his body to make any sort of throw on the run, and is accurate in this setting. He is a born signal caller who shows command of the offense. He has the arm strength to make the deep throws and the touch to put it on a receiver in stride. He is effective when scrambling and is a classic play extender.

Weaknesses

Wilson's height will be his biggest inhibitor at the next level and the largest reason for his late-round value. It remains to be seen if he can throw effectively from the pocket at the next level.

68.5 (50-69 = "Draftable Player", 4th-7th Round. A prospect with the ability to make team as a backup/role player. Needs to be a special teams contributor at applicable positions. Players in the high range of this category might have long-term potential.)
Click to expand...
Postdraft:
nfl.com said:
Draft 2012 Pick No.75

Selected By: Seattle Seahawks
Round: 3
Pick (Overall): 12 (75)

Pick Analysis: Wilson is this year's big-time question mark at quarterback. Unlike those who have held this title in the past, Wilson is a stellar passer who shows arm strength and accuracy when he is able to deliver the ball without a hitch. The North Carolina State transfer has outstanding football intelligence, as he picked up the Wisconsin offense in a short time and was the opening-day starter. But teams will have concerns whether Wilson can see over the pocket to make the throws at the next level. He is a mechanical mover who has strong technique and leadership qualities. If Wilson were three inches taller, there would be debate at the top of the draft as to where he fits. But look for teams to take a flier on him in a late round to see if he can develop and outplay his size.
Click to expand...
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
BravesCountry said:
Stafford's arm strength really is a beautiful thing. there's no subjectivity concerned, he has better arm strength than Ryan. Matty boy will never have top tier arm strength but he has done an admirable job without it. Their ages are similar enough where the age difference doesn't bother me, Matt could still have a longer career than Stafford, who knows.
Click to expand...

The only QB in the league who has as strong of an arm as Stafford is Jay Cutler. Tom Brady and Peyton used to have it, and Rodgers is close, but that type of arm strength cannot be taught. Matt Ryan is very close to Staffs arm strength but not quite there.

Someone should trademark Stafford window
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
Doesn't Locker have a crazy strong arm? Just sucks with it?
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Not sure what the deal is with Locker. A ton of former QBs and former PAC 10 players praised him coming out of college and before last weeks MNF game, but dude has been extremely disappointing.

I've always heard the talk about his arm strength but the last MNF game against the Jests was disappointing. Just by watching you can tell what QBs have a zip on the ball and Locker even seemed to lack that. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt if he was inaccurate but even his arm strength wasn't there.
 
L

LukeSmith

Member
LJ11 said:
You're absolutely right, put him on the Rams and the results will likely be different. Same story for most of these rookie QBs.
Click to expand...

None of the other rookie QBs make the playoffs in Indy.

RG3 gets killed behind that line, Russell can't throw it 30+ a game.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
Jake's problem was usually his footwork, which caused his accuracy issues. He was basically a running back in high school and he had to suffer under Tyrone for three years before Sark came to town. He's still a project.
 
S

squicken

Member
LukeSmith said:
None of the other rookie QBs make the playoffs in Indy.

RG3 gets killed behind that line, Russell can't throw it 30+ a game.
Click to expand...

That's the thing with Luck. He was the only one ready to handle to volume of offense he was given. The idea that they were a 10 win team that tanked to get Luck is absurd. Peyton held that thing together as Polian blew drafts and it shows with all the rookies and street FAs playing every week

The Colts got the benefit of a cake schedule, so I don't expect much in the postseason. But a fun ride
 
L

LukeSmith

Member
squicken said:
That's the thing with Luck. He was the only one ready to handle to volume of offense he was given. The idea that they were a 10 win team that tanked to get Luck is absurd. Peyton held that thing together as Polian blew drafts and it shows with all the rookies and street FAs playing every week

The Colts got the benefit of a cake schedule, so I don't expect much in the postseason. But a fun ride
Click to expand...

Easy schedule, still struggled along it eeking out wins over bad teams, et cetera. 2012 Colts are one of the worst 10 win teams in recent memory and if Marty McFly showed up and the almanac said that the 2013 Colts went 5-11, I wouldn't be shocked
 
S

Sviatoslav

Member
You know just reading Kastrioti's posts one would never assume that Stafford has a passer rating of less than 80 this year and a sub 60% completion percentage for his career.

Bright future indeed!
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
Sviatoslav said:
You know just reading Kastrioti's posts one would never assume that Stafford has a passer rating of less than 80 this year and a sub 60% completion percentage for his career.

Bright future indeed!
Click to expand...

You're including his rookie season(s) with those stats. He took over a 0-16 team before he was able to legally drink and suffered major injuries to his throwing arm. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt. If he was Joey Harrington I'd call him out on his shitness, but he's not.

His last two years of stats should be enough to defend him, but I've seen enough of his leadership and pocket presence to see the guy has great things ahead of him. Steve Young agrees with me.


cdyhybrid said:
Jake's problem was usually his footwork, which caused his accuracy issues. He was basically a running back in high school and he had to suffer under Tyrone for three years before Sark came to town. He's still a project.
Click to expand...

Good point about him only playing one year under Sarkhisian. Jake is still young so he's got plenty of time to improve. But growing up by PAC 10 football I've seen and heard enough to see the guy has natural talent. He was just extremely disappointing against the Jests on national TV.

Jake Locker instead of Mark Sanchez would've meant more titles for USC.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
Kastrioti said:
The only QB in the league who has as strong of an arm as Stafford is Jay Cutler. Tom Brady and Peyton used to have it, and Rodgers is close, but that type of arm strength cannot be taught. Matt Ryan is very close to Staffs arm strength but not quite there.

Someone should trademark Stafford window
Click to expand...

Jake Locker has a pretty good arm too. He just has no accuracy...

Edit: God dammit someone already mention it. =(
 
B

BannedEpisode

Member
Stuck at my grandparents place on a hard bed and dog hair making my nose run. Giving me time to think.

Harrison Smith deserves DROTY.

Had another big time game this week. 7 tackles, pass defended, sack, forced fumble.

Completely anchored what was previously the worst secondary in the league.
 
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