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[brucewaynegretzky]

The 2014 Philadelphia Flyers: Statistical Anomaly

http://www.crossingbroad.com/2014/04/the-flyers-had-a-4-37-chance-of-making-the-playoffs-after-losing-3-0-to-the-devils-on-november-7.html

 

[Curufinwe]

You just jinxed them against Florida.

You think so? I feel like the Habs & Flyers are the only teams that could beat the B's in the East. Even if they don't beat them, they should grind them out a bit anyways. Better Than Detroit.

Maybe I'm being too negative but they've owned us in meaningful games since the 2010 playoffs. I'd much rather play anyone else.

 

[bonesmccoy]

I don't think so. I'm actually surprised they missed the playoffs cause even on the strength of the Sedins alone.

Seems under Torts they all had off years. Only Kesler had more than 20 goals...

I wouldn't be surprised if he's next to go and I can't imagine what GM they'd bring in who wanted to keep him.

Oh, I agree that Tortorella shares the blame. It seems though that he has the ear of the owners, and I could seem them nodding in agreement if he were to put this squarely on Gillis.

edit: Gilman is staying on???

:U

 

[Socreges]

Man what? Any contract that completely negates the possibility of being able to move a key player if the shit hits the fan is a bad contract. Shit happens in sports and in business. Mobility is a necessity. I understand that the CBA made it worse, but that contract was bad from the start.

The cap hit was fine, the term was stupid for a guy in his 30s to be signed to a 12 year extension. Regardless of whether the deal was great on the old CBA, he saddled himself to a long term deal that brings all sorts of uncertainties. You can't just sign a deal like that and hope the new CBA will be as friendly as the old one. Try to mitigate the future issues by making the deal 4-5 years if possible. Vancouver was where Luongo wanted to be at the time, and they could have sold the "stay here to try and win a championship" angle. It was a shortsighted move at the time that ended up biting him in the ass so in effect, it was a bad deal.

Hindsight bias, guys. This conversation wasn't happening when the contract was signed because it was legal and no one imagined a future CBA would retroactively and severely punish teams that had been acting within the rules. Unless I'm mistaken. The Internet has a longer memory than I do so feel free to put me in my place.

 

[Terrordactyl]

Aquilini/Canucks you know what to do:

A winning combination.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

Hindsight bias, guys. This conversation wasn't happening when the contract was signed because it was legal and no one imagined a future CBA would retroactively and severely punish teams that had been acting within the rules. Unless I'm mistaken. The Internet has a longer memory than I do so feel free to put me in my place.

I dunno if I ever posted about it anywhere when it was originally signed but I'm not just talking about CBA punishments, the term is completely absurd and I felt that way when it was signed. The CBA came along and made it worse, sure, but god damn that term when he was already 30 years old.. just stupid. Not to mention that it was just assumed that a new CBA wouldn't possibly have anything in it that could affect such a massive contract. Or at least that's what I'm choosing to go with, because the alternative is that Gillis just never even considered how a revised CBA could fuck that contract in numerous ways.

 

[Cake Boss]

Day's just getting started it seems.

I know I'm late to the Spezza discussion, but I just want to say this: I'm fine with trading Spezza ONLY if you can get someone back that matches his offensive output. I'm talking a Center who can put up 70-80 points and it needs to be A player, not a couple of guys whose total productions add up to his. Then I'll be more than happy to see him out the door.

lol no one is giving you that for a declining injury prone player.

You're lucky to get a 60 point center and a top 4 dman or high prospect.

I'll take the Ducks offer for Kesler and run though.

 

[Zombie James]

A well-deserved firing. Don't think I've seen so many horrible trades in such a short period of time. The Canucks are going to be fucked for a very long time thanks to Gillis.

 

[calder]

Hindsight bias, guys. This conversation wasn't happening when the contract was signed because it was legal and no one imagined a future CBA would retroactively and severely punish teams that had been acting within the rules. Unless I'm mistaken. The Internet has a longer memory than I do so feel free to put me in my place.

During the lockout, and even before when the cap circumventing contracts were under fire, several writers including McKenzie and Dreger posited that the majority of the owners were looking to not only close the loopholes for the future but not care overly much if it fucked over the teams that had given them out.

Hindsight definitely comes into play of course, but while I'm too lazy to google it up properly I would say pretty confidently that heading into 2012 teams signing very long term deals had to know the league was going to hang them out to dry on them if it could in the new CBA

 

[sazabirules]

Jaro Halak sounds like a baby.

Won't play against his old team? Come on...

It is pathetic. It is just another sign of how bad our season has been.

 

[lamaroo]

"+ His draft picks haven't developed yet, and he had one top 20 pick (Hodgson)
+ Trading garbage (including a Burke draft bust) for Ehrhoff
+ Bringing in Hamhuis
+ Signing Burrows to a 4yr/8m deal
+ Re-signing the Sedins to great deals
+ Bringing in Malhotra
+ Holding onto Schneider when people were offering little (he NEVER gets credit for this, as if being burdened with two great goaltenders is somehow a fuckup) Nonis tried to trade Schneider for fucking BRULE
+ Bringing in Higgins


- The Grabner/Ballard trade (AWFUL)
- The Hodgson/Kassian trade (I've never liked it - might eventually work out, but who knows)"

Here is your list again. I got no idea?
Hodgson gone
Ehroff gone
Malholtra isn't a positive.
And where is Schneider now?
I'd add - Tortorella's hiring

How is bringing in Malhotra not a positive? The guy was one of the best third line centres in the league until his eye injury, you can't put that injury on Gillis.

 

[iLLmAtlc]

The idea of your trade deadline acquisition not playing against a top team with your season the line is ridiculous. If that shit happened in Canada the pitch forks would be out.

 

[Silexx]

lol no one is giving you that for a declining injury prone player.

You're lucky to get a 60 point center and a top 4 dman or high prospect.

Then tell me what you're getting back and explain how that makes the Sens better.

 

[KernelPanic]

Then tell me what you're getting back and explain how that makes the Sens better.

Spezza is gone = addition by subtraction. Don't matter who you get back almost. Just get that loser out of here.

 

[sazabirules]

The idea of your trade deadline acquisition not playing against a top team with your season the line is ridiculous. If that shit happened in Canada the pitch forks would be out.

Our media is a joke. They won't bring it up.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

How is bringing in Malhotra not a positive? The guy was one of the best third line centres in the league until his eye injury, you can't put that injury on Gillis.

Fine. I can go back on this.

The idea of your trade deadline acquisition not playing against a top team with your season the line is ridiculous. If that shit happened in Canada the pitch forks would be out.

I recall there being an enforcer...Brashear? Where the terms of the trade were that he not play against them the next game. Can't remember who it was...

That is pretty unprofessional though.

 

[Cake Boss]

Jay Feaster on @TSN1050Radio: I think he (Torts) is a great coach. I certainly would relish the opportunity along the way to work w/Torts

David William Naylor ‏@TSNDaveNaylor 13m
Jay Feaster tells #TSNDrive he would like to be a GM again in the NHL and would also like again to work with John Tortorella some day. #NHL

What an amazing day.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

Feaster.. oh god. Oh. God. Even I might feel bad for Vancouver if that happens.

 

[Acid08]

Feaster.. oh god. Oh. God. Even I might feel bad for Vancouver if that happens.

LOL.....nah.

 

[ActStriker]

What an amazing day.

omg yes

 

[Unhandled Exception]

LOL.....nah.

 

[yyzjohn]

Hindsight bias, guys. This conversation wasn't happening when the contract was signed because it was legal and no one imagined a future CBA would retroactively and severely punish teams that had been acting within the rules. Unless I'm mistaken. The Internet has a longer memory than I do so feel free to put me in my place.

You're judging Gillis by his moves and ultimately how that affected the team he tried to build. Who cares if the contract wasn't panned at the time? It's the same way you can't judge a winner in a trade or a draft pick until years later. He painted himself into a corner, largely due to his Luongo/Schneider dealings and that eventually got him canned. If that's hindsight so be it, he's still made bonehead moves.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Luongo's contract made sense at the time. This was the same contract given to Hossa, Franzen, Kovalchuk, etc. Luongo had little injury history, was one of the top goalies in the league, and goalies are known to play into their 40s at a high level.

http://mobile.thn.com/articles/2772...on-12year-contract-extension-with-Luongo.html

 

[calder]

Pension Plan Muppets ‏@mlse 11m

All I know is that as a Canucks fan I am overjoyed at the idea of Jay Feaster being named GM and will buy multiple season tickets #GoNucks

mc79hockey ‏@mc79hockey 8m

As a Canucks fan, I'm only renewing my tickets if they hire a proven winner in Jay Feaster as GM. #SecondCupForJayAndTorts @VanCanucks

Pension Plan Muppets ‏@mlse 7m

Getting rid of that loser Gillis was just the first step. Reunite the Dream Team! #SecondCupForJayAndTorts @VanCanucks

It's unanimous! Get the band back together Aquilinis!

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

It's unanimous! Get the band back together Aquilinis!

Bring the high school draft pick too!

Seriously though, is there a GM that all you Canucks fans want (let's be realistic here too...).

If we were to get rid of Nonis, with rumblings out of Carolina, and I believe they wanted him at one point, it could be Rutherford.

Coach...goddamn Edmonton took Eakins...so, I'll say Muller or Boucher or Messier, why the fuck not?

 

[MutFox]

As per Leafs tradition, they'll get another Canucks hand me down GM...
You'll see... You'll all see...

???

Well the Leafs had Burke, then Nonis...
So it's only logical they get Gillis next... ;P

 

[ShaneB]

Luongo's contract made sense at the time. This was the same contract given to Hossa, Franzen, Kovalchuk, etc. Luongo had little injury history, was one of the top goalies in the league, and goalies are known to play into their 40s at a high level.

http://mobile.thn.com/articles/2772...on-12year-contract-extension-with-Luongo.html

No long contract has ever seemed to make any sense at any time, ever.

Grats on the news Canucks fans. Makes for a fun offseason.

Would be nice to see McPhee gone as well and fire up the Caps offseason =/

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Canucks need a fiery GM, someone who knows the org, someone not afraid to make bold moves... Canucks need Mike Keenan.

 

[Red_Man]

Maybe I'm being too negative but they've owned us in meaningful games since the 2010 playoffs. I'd much rather play anyone else.

I don't put too much stock into regular season games when it comes to playoffs anymore, playoffs are a completely other beast. Flyers are pretty scary, they've got a great mix of grit, hitting and scoring.

Luongo's contract made sense at the time. This was the same contract given to Hossa, Franzen, Kovalchuk, etc. Luongo had little injury history, was one of the top goalies in the league, and goalies are known to play into their 40s at a high level.

I disagree, goalies peak between 27- 30 and play in the most volatile position in hockey. Giving any goalie a 12 year contract at that age was stupid.

 

[yyzjohn]

Canucks need a fiery GM, someone who knows the org, someone not afraid to make bold moves... Canucks need Mike Keenan.

Phil Esposito loved making trades.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

No long contract has ever seemed to make any sense at any time, ever.

This is basically what I'm trying to convey here. You split that contract in half with no ill-effects pre-CBA or post-CBA and maybe Vancouver keeps one of Schneider or Luongo and actually gets a decent return on the one they do trade away. Hindsight? Of course you can say that but bad business is bad business.

 

[yyzjohn]

I disagree, goalies peak between 27- 30 and play in the most volatile position in hockey. Giving any goalie a 12 year contract at that age was stupid.

Buububu Johnny Bower played into his 40s! I know cause Gillis mentioned him when signing Luongo!

 

[Socreges]

I dunno if I ever posted about it anywhere when it was originally signed but I'm not just talking about CBA punishments, the term is completely absurd and I felt that way when it was signed. The CBA came along and made it worse, sure, but god damn that term when he was already 30 years old.. just stupid. Not to mention that it was just assumed that a new CBA wouldn't possibly have anything in it that could affect such a massive contract. Or at least that's what I'm choosing to go with, because the alternative is that Gillis just never even considered how a revised CBA could fuck that contract in numerous ways.

The term didn't really matter as much as you say, given two (reasonable) assumptions. He will retire before the end of the contract, particularly as the salary diminishes significantly. And a $5.3m cap hit will likely be more toward the average in later years (this is already beginning to happen).

The 2nd half of your post... refer to my previous post.

 

[Red_Man]

I'm surprised Julien Brisebois hasn't been picked up by a team yet, seems like a great option to replace a GM.

 

[lamaroo]

Bring the high school draft pick too!

Seriously though, is there a GM that all you Canucks fans want (let's be realistic here too...).

If we were to get rid of Nonis, with rumblings out of Carolina, and I believe they wanted him at one point, it could be Rutherford.

Coach...goddamn Edmonton took Eakins...so, I'll say Muller or Boucher or Messier, why the fuck not?

Stay away from our future coaching tandem!

 

[Red_Man]

If the Leafs grab Boucher I'll throw eggs at Bergevin's office.

Stay away from our future coaching tandem!

Friedman said yesterday he 100% expects Bergevin to sign Therrien to a new contract this off season so it's not a distraction during next season

 

[SpectreFire]

Seriously though, is there a GM that all you Canucks fans want (let's be realistic here too...).

Nicholson or Gilman.

Honestly, I'm terrified right now. I don't think anyone realized that with Gillis fired, that means the Aquillinis get to pull the decisions now.

That is fucking terrifying. The Aquillinis may not be Charles Wang, but they're close.

 

[yyzjohn]

If the Leafs grab Boucher I'll throw eggs at Bergevin's office.


Friedman said yesterday he 100% expects Bergevin to sign Therrien to a new contract this off season so it's not a distraction during next season

I know Habs fans love to give Therrien grief, but you're a 100 point team this season, how much better do you think the Habs are with a "good" coach? Best team in the league? A coach makes do with what he has and it seems to an outsider that he's managed to get a lot from this team. Nobody expected the Habs to be this high in the standings.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

The term didn't really matter as much as you say, given two (reasonable) assumptions. He will retire before the end of the contract, particularly as the salary diminishes significantly. And a $5.3m cap hit will likely be more toward the average in later years (this is already beginning to happen).

The 2nd half of your post... refer to my previous post.

If you don't see the downfall of signing any 12 year contract regardless of the player or their circumstance I don't really know where to go with this discussion man. 12 years is a long fucking time. SO many things can happen in that amount of time.

 

[Fata1moose]

http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=692&id=598018&lang=en

:lol The hell is happening at the end of this video? (skip to 5:50)

 

[Red_Man]

I know Habs fans love to give Therrien grief, but you're a 100 point team this season, how much better do you think the Habs are with a "good" coach? Best team in the league? A coach makes do with what he has and it seems to an outsider that he's managed to get a lot from this team. Nobody expected the Habs to be this high in the standings.

This is the most talented Habs team in 20 years, the teams best players right now (Patches, Price, Markov, etc) are playing as well they are in spite of him. He's neutered Subban who's taken a step back since last season, and has said himself his confidence is down. I think with the right coach this team could be up there, with a coach that doesn't play fucking Murray and Bouillon regularly, and one who lets Subban play his game. I gave him credit for last season, and I give him credit for bringing the team together because they're obviously very close and follow him, but the team as a whole wins games when they go against his stupid grinding system.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=692&id=598018&lang=en

:lol The hell is happening at the end of this video? (skip to 5:50)

I have a new avatar now thanks

 

[lamaroo]

If the Leafs grab Boucher I'll throw eggs at Bergevin's office.


Friedman said yesterday he 100% expects Bergevin to sign Therrien to a new contract this off season so it's not a distraction during next season

NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

He should just let his contract run out and sign a real coach who will take the team to the next level. Tberrien was just supposed to be a stop-gap until the team was ready to actually compete for the cup. Maybe another shitty playoff performance will change his mind.

 

[Red_Man]

Tberrien was just supposed to be a stop-gap until the team was ready to actually compete for the cup. Maybe another shitty playoff performance will change his mind.

I think it was McKenzie who said yesterday that even if we're bounced in the 1st round this year Therrien is pretty much safe, he said we would have to be bounced in a pretty dramatic way for his job to be at all threatened.

 

[Fata1moose]

I just read an article from the Denver Post that a school here in Colorado was evacuated because kids were having reactions to an unknown substance, haz-mat crews arrived and found 6 habanero peppers. I was eating a hamburger with habanero sauce, while reading. Kids can't handle the heat.

 

[Red_Man]

Dreger just said he expects Linden to be hired as the next President of the Canucks, and then find a new GM.

 

[iLLmAtlc]

Those kids probably wear visors

 

[Socreges]

Nuh uh...

I guess we're done here!

 

[Unhandled Exception]

12 year contracts for all! Wooooooo

 

[Red_Man]

12 year contract makes sense seeing as he's going to end up being a top 5 goalie of all time!

Spoiler

I wish that guy posted in here, I wonder what his reaction to the trade to Florida was