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NHL January 2015 |OT| A team wearing the Maple Leaf won something at the ACC

S

shadowkat

Unconfirmed Member
Kave_Man said:
B6eTQGFIEAEtwyT.png:large
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lol
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
User33 said:
Nope, Pens led in SCF (On-Ice Scoring Chances For Total) 33-16 at even-strength
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And does that stat tell you how quality they were? No, like I said, they had maybe 5 chances that were actually threatening. Rest of the shots looked like Price was just in team practice, meanwhile Fleury made 3 ridiculous saves to keep it from being a blow out but the stats won't tell you that. Trying to tell me how they played when you didn't watch a second of the game is hilarious.
 
H

Heretic

Member
Red_Man said:
And does that stat tell you how quality they were? No, like I said, they had maybe 5 chances that were actually threatening. Rest of the shots looked like Price was just in team practice, meanwhile Fleury made 3 ridiculous saves to keep it from being a blow out but the stats won't tell you that. Trying to tell me how they played when you didn't watch a second of the game is hilarious.
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#TeamRed_Man
 
Z

zroid

Banned
Red_Man said:
And does that stat tell you how quality they were? No, like I said, they had maybe 5 chances that were actually threatening. Rest of the shots looked like Price was just in team practice, meanwhile Fleury made 3 ridiculous saves to keep it from being a blow out but the stats won't tell you that. Trying to tell me how they played when you didn't watch a second of the game is hilarious.
Click to expand...

One thing I'll add is for the scoring chance stat, it doesn't necessarily mean they were "tough shots", but shots that had the potential to be tough. In the end it comes down to shooting accuracy (which fluctuates wildly from game to game) and goaltending (Price is very good so you'd expect him to be in position to make stops look easy more often than average). It's likely the Pens just couldn't find the corners or whatever which might've put a puck or two in the net. Just speculating though.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
User33 said:
Our brains are biased and generally use whatever facts support our preconceived notions while ignoring anything that disagrees with those notions. And there lies the value in statistics. There is no bias.
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User33 said:
Our brains are biased and generally use whatever facts support our preconceived notions while ignoring anything that disagrees with those notions. And there lies the value in statistics. There is no bias.
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No bias and they also are unable to identify the various factors in the game such as quality of each individual shot. Like I said, advanced stats are effective over the long term when used in conjunction with other factors. They're still in their infancy and have a long ways to go, trying to tell someone how the game went based on one stat when you didn't watch the game is just ignorance.

zroid said:
One thing I'll add is for the scoring chance stat, it doesn't necessarily mean they were "tough shots", but shots that had the potential to be tough. In the end it comes down to shooting accuracy (which fluctuates wildly from game to game) and goaltending (Price is very good so you'd expect him to be in position to make stops look easy more often than average). It's likely the Pens just couldn't find the corners or whatever which might've put a puck or two in the net. Just speculating though.
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This is true, but the majority of the shots they made from those points were not dangerous not to mention neither Crosby or Malkin had any good looks. These are the kind of things stats won't show you and is why you can't use these as the only factors for analyzing a team.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
Red_Man said:
This is true, but the majority of the shots they made from those points were not dangerous not to mention neither Crosby or Malkin had any good looks. These are the kind of things stats won't show you and is why you can't use these as the only factors for analyzing a team.
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Yeah, I hesitate to judge single games with the stats we have -- sample size way too small. My angle is more like when the analytics seem to disagree with what my head's telling me, I think it's worth looking into it a bit deeper. Usually they don't disagree, especially not with the god damn Leafs.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
zroid said:
Yeah, I hesitate to judge single games with the stats we have -- sample size way too small. My angle is more like when the analytics seem to disagree with what my head's telling me, I think it's worth looking into it a bit deeper. Usually they don't disagree, especially not with the god damn Leafs.
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Habs have been an awful possession team all year and the stats show that. Price has had to bail them out a lot and I've admitted it and it's why I want Therrien gone, but tonight they thoroughly outplayed the Pens and everyone who watched the game agrees.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
iirc Therrien was a pretty bad possession coach in Pittsburgh too. Would be interesting to see what kind of effect it would have on the Canadiens if they had a good systems coach. Mirtle had speculated that the Leafs' "possession ceiling" with the current roster might be something like 48%, which is bad but still a huge improvement. If the Habs could improve by around that much with a good coach, they might be a serious contender.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Therrien has adapted, he's been forced to by injuries and Bergevin. He adapted in the playoffs too, but reverted to his old ways once the season started. He's been a lot better lately with the changes of AGally at C, Beaulieu in the top 4, Sekac in the top 6, etc. These changes are forcing a change of play style. Not to mention Price is playing the best hockey of his career and I don't see him dipping unless he's injured. I want to see what a progressive coach can do with this team though, they could consistently be playing a lot better hockey with the right systems.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
I love this chart. Compares Dallas to Toronto, by corsi against.

lzKJagJ.png


For a while they were about the same defensively, but since mid-December, Stars have been only getting better (and winning games), while the Leafs have been getting worse (!), and well, you know what's happening.
 
F

fallout

Member
FUBAR McDangles said:
b-b-but collaboration and teamwork

That looks like a horrible place to work.
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Open offices aren't for everyone and aren't for every work environment. They do work well, but they have to be implemented properly with certain concessions. E.g., give people rooms to disappear to if they really need to limit their distractions.

I work in software development in what you would probably call a pod environment. I spend a good chunk of my day collaborating with my team and I can't tell you how much time we've saved by having one team member ask another a simple question or vocalizing a suggestion. If the conversation doesn't involve me, then that's when I just put on my headphones.

If anything, the shit that wastes most of my time are pointless emails.
 
D

dr.rocktopus

Banned
Red_Man said:
And does that stat tell you how quality they were? No, like I said, they had maybe 5 chances that were actually threatening. Rest of the shots looked like Price was just in team practice, meanwhile Fleury made 3 ridiculous saves to keep it from being a blow out but the stats won't tell you that. Trying to tell me how they played when you didn't watch a second of the game is hilarious.
Click to expand...

This.

Advanced Stats simply aren't advanced enough. Going from the typical point-focus to a possession-focus switches from a hard and fast metric for quality (points) to a more variable one. There are higher/lower odds you'll get a shot on net in these conditions, which in a perfect world should go in. It's a perfectly valid method a reasoning but I think it needs to go further. The Raptors (sorry) have analytical tools that actually consider more of the surrounding game around an individual event (http://grantland.com/features/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution/). This level of detail is needed IMO to really be able to tell the tale without watching the game.
 
K

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
dr.rocktopus said:
This.

Advanced Stats simply aren't advanced enough. Going from the typical point-focus to a possession-focus switches from a hard and fast metric for quality (points) to a more variable one. There are higher/lower odds you'll get a shot on net in these conditions, which in a perfect world should go in. It's a perfectly valid method a reasoning but I think it needs to go further. The Raptors (sorry) have analytical tools that actually consider more of the surrounding game around an individual event (http://grantland.com/features/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution/). This level of detail is needed IMO to really be able to tell the tale without watching the game.
Click to expand...

I've absolutely loved the things the Raptors have done with their advanced stats.

Makes my pants tight.
 
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