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NHL Lockout With Your Cock Out |OT|

M

Merguson

Banned
I would love to know the current state of the owners.

Too bad the NHL can easily throw fines at the owners for saying anything.

I only say this because Gary Bettman needs just the approval of eight owners to approve or reject a CBA.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
bonesmccoy said:
How can we say the PA's leadership has been poor throughout this lockout? The proposals from the NHL have been consistently better the longer the lockout has go on. Fehr's managed to keep a heretofore dysfunctional union in line while making the bargaining process as embarrassing and unpleasant to the owners as possible. Chances are, whenever the next CBA expires, the owners don't even think about letting it get to a lockout situation.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? Every piece of information that comes out about the PA gets more and more embarrassing. Showing up late for/skipping meetings. The HRR foolishness that the league even HIGHLIGHTED for them and that they even asked follow-up questions on. The buyout stuff where they whined for it, got it, and are now whining about it.
 
C

Cake Boss

Banned
CREMSteve said:
Calgary with the leading goal scorer and 2 of the top 3 points producers in the World Juniors.... can't say I've ever seen that before in my lifetime.

YC2wk.jpg


Edit - Scratch that, Granlund had another 3-point game today, he's now tied for the tournament lead with 12 points. :D
Click to expand...

Don't matter.

jt1aTeSPfdnFF.jpg
 
S

Stet

Banned
the fact is that if either the PA or the league were competent we would be watching hockey right now instead of talking about pensions and tax rates and carrying the fuckin 1
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
lol, guys. I've never 'declared' for the player side. It is sometimes worth considering their arguments however, rather than reflexively shitting on any move the PA makes.

Cake Boss said:
Any idiot can just say no and no over again, thats not negotiating.
Click to expand...

Have the NHL's offers improved time after time? Has the NHL moved toward what the PA has asked for? Yes? But oh, right, that's clearly ineffectual negotiating... for some reason.

Another question: How much do any of us know about the NHL's offers in November? Other than that the league said they were 'good'?

And yes, Marvadamus, I should heed your example and refrain from making predictions.
 
H

Heretic

Member
bonesmccoy said:
lol, guys. I've never 'declared' for the player side. It is sometimes worth considering their arguments however, rather than reflexively shitting on any move the PA makes.



Have the NHL's offers improved time after time? Has the NHL moved toward what the PA has asked for? Yes? But oh, right, that's clearly ineffectual negotiating... for some reason.

Another question: How much do any of us know about the NHL's offers in November? Other than that the league said they were 'good'?

And yes, Marvadamus, I should heed your example and refrain from making predictions.
Click to expand...

Here is your scarlet letter, BUDDY.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Cake Boss said:
I was talking about the one in November, (82 game schedule one). And yeah I don't think the league expected you take the 1st offer, thats why its called negotiating, what they didnt expect was the players acting like little whiny bitches and getting all emotional in a business deal.

And that low balled first offer would have been presented in January if the PA agreed to start negotiating back then, and we would have wasted all those months on stupid offers while playing hockey instead of wasting them now on the new season with no hockey.
Click to expand...

You mean like Bettman practically screaming at his conference a while back?

Come on... both sides are pulling this shit.
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
Curufinwe said:
And what adjective fits the NHL leadership that cancelled an entire season in 04/05 to ensure they could defeat the union and get the CBA they wanted, only to turn around just seven years later and admit what they asked for and got was actually so bad they were going to have to do the lockout thing all over again.
Click to expand...
The league was much less than healthy back then. In hind sight who really lost from the last CBA? The players? Whose average salary rose significantly? The league? Whose HRR rose just as much? The last CBA set up the foundation of a healthy league.

The biggest problem is the player share at 57% which is an anomaly and should be considered as much. Look at the current league issues where teams like San Jose can sell out consistanlty and still have to make the 2nd round of the playoffs just to be profitable.

Also look no further than Don Fehr for the reason there is a lockout. The PA will spin tgat tgey wanted to play under the expired CBA, but that is the same line Fehr used on the MLB. The PA kicked out Kelly to bring in Fehr, not for getting a timely resolution, but to fight the owners and make the process as onerous as possible. I think the refusal of realignment was the first shot fired in all this mess, delaying talks, ignoring deadlines is all in the build up.

We are at a completely avoidable cliff right now not for ideals and conviction but out of ignorance. This is the epitome of "cutting off the nose to spite the face."




Edit:
Marvie_3 said:
icehogs.jpg




.
Click to expand...

Yeah someone has/is getting fired for that.
 
M

Merguson

Banned
Plinko said:
Are you serious? Every piece of information that comes out about the PA gets more and more embarrassing. Showing up late for/skipping meetings. The HRR foolishness that the league even HIGHLIGHTED for them and that they even asked follow-up questions on. The buyout stuff where they whined for it, got it, and are now whining about it.
Click to expand...

Where is this even coming from?

Players aren't happy with the language regarding penalties with the hiding of HRR. Makes it look weak.

Players go into a meeting with the NHL. The NHL reverts back to the original language.

Both sides agreed upon the particular provision in 2011 when there was some issues that arose where teams did not report some HRR.

Which makes no sense for the NHL to revert back on a provision that both sides agreed upon. There are issues that both sides have clear disagreement about. Why waste time on HRR hiding penalties?

Regarding the buyout stuff. After both parties agreed to the compliance buyouts, Bettman makes a comment about how teams welcome the opportunity to dismantle their teams and erase their mistakes. Why does Bettman bother with such a comment? He's not arguing for anything. It doesn't help Bettman. The issue has already been agreed upon. Move on.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
I had a dream hockey was back, and Eller scored the first goal of the season. The prophecy is being full-filled.
 
M

Marvie_3

Banned
brucewaynegretzky said:
You mean like Bettman practically screaming at his conference a while back?

Come on... both sides are pulling this shit.
Click to expand...
:lol brc pls

Even if he was spewing napalm at the mic, it would have been justified given the completely bullshit PR stunt Fehr tried to pull earlier in the day.

Red_Man said:
I had a dream hockey was back, and Eller scored the first goal of the season. The prophecy is being full-filled.
Click to expand...
That sounds like Tabris-talk to me.
 
C

CCF23

Member
Andy Strickland tweeted that the players will have the chance to vote on whatever offer is on the table at the "deadline", and the sense he gets is that they will vote to play.

Edit: here's the tweet:

#NHL players will have a chance to vote on whatever offer exists at the deadline...players give me the impression they'll vote to play
Click to expand...

HOPE all up in my veins.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
CCF23 said:
Andy Strickland tweeted that the players will have the chance to vote on whatever offer is on the table at the "deadline", and the sense he gets is that they will vote to play.

Edit: here's the tweet:



HOPE all up in my veins.
Click to expand...

Until Fehr tells them not to.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Don't believe the blues beat writer

Don't do it

He lies

He will wreck your hopes

And dreams

Do not trust him

Do not believe his lies
 
M

Marvie_3

Banned
CCF23 said:
Andy Strickland tweeted that the players will have the chance to vote on whatever offer is on the table at the "deadline", and the sense he gets is that they will vote to play.

Edit: here's the tweet:



HOPE all up in my veins.
Click to expand...

I bet the NHL could table their lowball summer offer right before the vote. It's not like the PA would even read it for at least a week.
 
K

KernelPanic

Member
Fehr is going to drag this out as long as he can. I think he'll even try and call Bettman's bluff on cancelling the season on the 11th.

It's all about showing defiance and how tough they are since the last lockout.
 
M

Marvie_3

Banned
KernelPanic said:
Fehr is going to drag this out as long as he can. I think he'll even try and call Bettman's bluff on cancelling the season on the 11th.

It's all about showing defiance and how tough they are since the last lockout.
Click to expand...
Lucky for them, defiance and toughness pay the bills.
 
S

Surge

Member
Wow...ESPN has LeBrun on right now talking about the lockout.

Fake edit - only lasted about 2-3 minutes

Back to football/Lakers/Heat
 
A

Alucard

Banned
"Did you guys even read the offer?"
"We tried. It's just so...thick. But we're gonna start reading right now!"

...And so the season was cancelled.
 
C

Cake Boss

Banned
Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
Mediators have now been in meeting with the NHLPA for over 2.5 hours. #CBA #TSN

lol he must be reading for them.
 
V

VALIS

Member
Gary Bettman infuriated players across the table from him at NHL headquarters on Thursday — and, by extension, NHLPA membership — by claiming that a number of general managers had told him they regret some of the contracts they’d previously handed out and would welcome the opportunity to “dismantle” their teams in order to meet the steep drop to the league’s proposed $60 million cap for 2013-14, sources have told The Post.

The players responded with a mixture of anger and skepticism, demanding to know the identity of these alleged GM’s. Bettman refused to name the straw men in seeking to counter the players’ position that adopting a $60M cap — even with two amnesty buyouts — would be punitive against big-market, big-spending franchises.

The union believes the league’s stance changed after PA executive director Don Fehr decided against filing a disclaimer of interest at Wednesday’s midnight deadline that would have sent the dispute into court. The PA believes the NHL pulled a bait and switch in the immediate aftermath of Fehr’s continued commitment to the collective bargaining process.

The NHL, we’re told, attempted a late change in the language regarding penalties for clubs caught hiding Hockey Related Revenue (HRR) through audits by the NHLPA.

The previous CBA, and previous proposals, stipulated that clubs in violation of HRR-reporting requirements would be fined $1M plus the loss of one first-round draft pick for a first offense, with a second offense carrying a fine of $5M plus three first-round picks.

The NHL on Thursday attempted to change that so that Bettman himself would decide all the penalties. The league withdrew the changes when the PA objected.

And in one that is all but impossible to believe but has been confirmed by several sources, the NHL also has proposed that it be allowed to re-open the CBA if an arbitrator confirms an NHLPA audit that the league is hiding a substantial amount of HRR, with the amount pegged at 2-percent.

It is as unclear whether that proposal remains on the table as it is whether it is meant to be taken seriously, Rest assured, however, the players took it very seriously, adding to their perception that the NHL had pulled a bait-and-switch on them once the disclaimer deadline passed.

The union has responded by authorizing yet another vote to empower Fehr to disclaim.

The PA and NHL are meeting separately with a federal mediator Friday morning. It is possible that bargaining between the parties will resume this afternoon, the league having established a Jan. 11 deadline for reaching an agreement to save the 2012-13 season.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/slaps...ws_talks_idc4uLyMBvdi0wtRMC6yCM#axzz2H2xDSE4m
Click to expand...

Of course they tried a bait and switch once the PA lowered their gun, all the NHL has been doing from day 1 is ploys and stunts.

"We've enjoyed a very successful 8 years together under the last CBA, but we're going to start this round of negotiations with a ridiculously lowball offer that screams for a fight."

"We're making movement towards you in our latest proposal... if you ignore the fact that we've since cut back in these areas from the last offer."

"We should get Bettman and Fehr out of the room and let cooler heads prevail... and let our businessmen owners try to railroad unknowing players into agreeing to a deal without getting their legal counsel involved."

That last one is going to look very bad on the NHL when this gets to court.
 
F

Freyjadour

Member
We've been talking about that for pages now. The change wasn't made on Thursday, it was made on the first new offer by the NHL starting this chain of negotiations on December 27th. It was flagged and highlighted for the NHLPA and it's been reported that the PA did ask questions about it back then. Then the disclaimer deadline passes and it's suddenly a "BAIT AND SWITCH". Fuck off.

Elliott Pap ‏@ElliottPap
Kevin Bieksa on threat NHL will kill season if no deal by next Thurs: "Deadlines have been moving, changing. They don't really mean much."
Click to expand...

Yeah. Let's play chicken in the middle of fucking January.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
VALIS said:
Of course they tried a bait and switch once the PA lowered their gun, all the NHL has been doing from day 1 is ploys and stunts.

"We've enjoyed a very successful 8 years together under the last CBA, but we're going to start this round of negotiations with a ridiculously lowball offer that screams for a fight."

"We're making movement towards you in our latest proposal... if you ignore the fact that we've since cut back in these areas from the last offer."

"We should get Bettman and Fehr out of the room and let cooler heads prevail... and let our businessmen owners try to railroad unknowing players into agreeing to a deal without getting their legal counsel involved."

That last one is going to look very bad on the NHL when this gets to court.
Click to expand...

Um... The NHL not only bolded, highlighted and flagged the change, the PA asked questions about it on two of the 3 clarification days.

Then all of a sudden it's OMG WE DIDN'T KNOW THEY'RE TRICKING US

Sorry, if it ends up in court, NHL has a quick and easy win on their hands.
 
K

KernelPanic

Member
The judge will tell both parties to stop fucking around and settle this instead of dragging their negotiation into the courtroom.

Rodeo Clown said:
Is he wrong? Every time the NHL says "Take it or leave it!" they come back with a new, more palatable offer for the players.
Click to expand...

The players are agreeing to every NHL request. 50/50, contract limits, variance etc. they already lost. They are just trying to lose less but they will lose.

Has Fehr removed the cap, lowered free agency limits or any major changes ? Nope.
 
C

CREMSteve

Member
Smiley90 said:
and Baertschi wasn't even AT the WJ's...
Click to expand...

The Flames have done some nice drafting the past two years, no doubt. Almost every one of them was in the tournament this year or last.

13 1 Sven Bartschi L Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
45 2 Markus Granlund F HIFK Jr. (Finland)
57 2 Tyler Wotherspoon D Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
104 4 John Gaudreau F Dubuque Fighting Saints [USHL]
164 6 Laurent Brossoit G Edmonton Oil Kings [WHL]
 
F

Freyjadour

Member
Rodeo Clown said:
Is he wrong? Every time the NHL says "Take it or leave it!" they come back with a new, more palatable offer for the players.
Click to expand...

The NHL has not given a drop dead date until now. This isn't a "take it or leave it", this is a clear definition of a drop dead date for any games this season. The players think they can still swing a 48 game season playing into June.

Palatable is, again, completely questionable considering the lost money.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Renaud Lavoie said:
NHLPA conditions for the next CBA to be 10 year. 1-option out after 7 years. 2-minimum salary at $800 000 at year 9. Still no deal on that.
Click to expand...
.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Red_Man said:
I didn't realize NHL-Gaf was made up of so many lawyers
Click to expand...

Simply put

NHL lockout is completely legal, NLRB will go in favor of the NHL because they have fulfilled the criteria for a legal lockout- That would make DOI a null tactic

At this stage, it's completely impossible to make DOI seem like anything other than a negotiation tactic.

That means players would be unable to use that card for the duration of the lockout.

You don't need to be a lawyer to see how badly the cards are stacked against the players in this circumstance.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Honest question: How many people in their 9th year AREN'T making 800k?

DopeyFish said:
Simply put

NHL lockout is completely legal, NLRB will go in favor of the NHL because they have fulfilled the criteria for a legal lockout- That would make DOI a null tactic

At this stage, it's completely impossible to make DOI seem like anything other than a negotiation tactic.

That means players would be unable to use that card for the duration of the lockout.

You don't need to be a lawyer to see how badly the cards are stacked against the players in this circumstance.
Click to expand...

This is bullshit. They need the DOI to file an antitrust case. No court is going to say that a DOI issued in order to file a legitimate claim is a bad faith bargaining tactic. We don't prevent people from filing potentially legitimate lawsuits.
 
C

Cake Boss

Banned
Bettman: Lockout of no deal by Sept 15
Lockout

Bettman: No 82 game season if no deal by Nov 4
No 82 game season

Bettman: No season if no deal by Jan 11
.........

3rd times the charm I guess, yeah these players really want to get back to players when they are trying to call blufs on deadlines. But I thought the players wanted to get back on the ice as soon as possible.

What magical deadline has he pushed that the players don't believe him?
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Pierre Mcguire just said both sides will meet in NY tonight

DopeyFish said:
Simply put

NHL lockout is completely legal, NLRB will go in favor of the NHL because they have fulfilled the criteria for a legal lockout- That would make DOI a null tactic

At this stage, it's completely impossible to make DOI seem like anything other than a negotiation tactic.

That means players would be unable to use that card for the duration of the lockout.

You don't need to be a lawyer to see how badly the cards are stacked against the players in this circumstance.
Click to expand...
I get that, but pretending to have any idea what will actually go down once it goes to court is kind of silly imo.
 
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