Barry Melrose is a piece of shit.
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NHL Lockout With Your Cock Out |OT|
- Thread starter Marvie_3
- Start date
Barry Melrose is a piece of shit.
Only to keep NBC from having it. ESPN doesn't give a fuck about the NHL otherwise.
wsoxfan1214
Banned
This is how I read it as well.
KernelPanic
Member
Somebody stop this man please:
http://m.thestar.com/sports/hockey/...d-fehr-player-growing-unhappy-with-salary-cap
http://m.thestar.com/sports/hockey/...d-fehr-player-growing-unhappy-with-salary-cap
ZeroGravity
Member
Co-signed.
I seriously wonder if players understand the word compromise. You'd think that as talks go on, their expectations would get MORE similar, not LESS. That's not how you talk to each other, wtf.
yankeehater
Member
I loved that the players ace card is to get more unreasonable as time goes on. I am sure that will work out well for them.
SpectreFire
Member
What a dumbass. I doubt the NFL has any concerns about profitability or team values. He has a point on the NBA but the NBA doesn't have a cap system like the NFL and there's shit for parity.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I hope Fehr realizes he almost destroyed baseball's attendance in the United States. It took years to recover and he has absolutely nothing to do with it today.
Is everyone here pro-owners? Really? It sure feels like it.
I think both sides need to get their heads out of their asses, but I place far more blame on the owners this time around.
LOOK HOW WELL OUR LEAGUE IS DOING, IT HAS NEVER BEEN STRONGER -> CBA expires -> WE'RE IN SUCH HORRIBLE SHAPE THAT WILL CRIPPLE THE LEAGUE IF WE DON'T GET WHAT WE WANT.
At this point the players need to make the next proposal but I think their reluctance to do so is because the NHL has been so incredibly unwilling to budge on almost anything. Any compromise the players put forth in their next proposal will likely be met with more of the same bullshit from the owners side.
Fuck Bettman and the old boys club of owners that is driving the agenda on that side.
I think both sides need to get their heads out of their asses, but I place far more blame on the owners this time around.
LOOK HOW WELL OUR LEAGUE IS DOING, IT HAS NEVER BEEN STRONGER -> CBA expires -> WE'RE IN SUCH HORRIBLE SHAPE THAT WILL CRIPPLE THE LEAGUE IF WE DON'T GET WHAT WE WANT.
At this point the players need to make the next proposal but I think their reluctance to do so is because the NHL has been so incredibly unwilling to budge on almost anything. Any compromise the players put forth in their next proposal will likely be met with more of the same bullshit from the owners side.
Fuck Bettman and the old boys club of owners that is driving the agenda on that side.
SpectreFire
Member
I can't even safely assume he's able to figure out how to tie his shoes every morning.
I think we're not so much pro-owners at this point, but rather anti-players.
I think both sides are idiots in this, but with how whiney and fucking entitled the players have been acting, I'd be all for the owners slashing their salaries by 80% and forcing them to suck on a honest living for once.
If the owners severely screw over the players, then I don't think anyone here will shed a single tear at this point.
hey, here's one guy! It's a bit maddening reading some of the posts. Asking the players for compromise, they took it on the chin last time, and the owners are coming back asking for them grab their ankles again, all due to a poorly run sport. Fuck that. I'd have the same opinion too if i was a player. You aren't going to come back every decade asking for a 25% cut in salaries because you can't run your league.
The only problem with the way Fehr is doing it now is that they should have countered the original stick up the ass proposal from the owners with an equivalent stick up the ass to the owners which is no salary cap, instead of going backwards now.
I just don't really understand the sentiment of "hey, you already make a lot of money so you should stop complaining, bend over, and let the owners stick it in you so the billionaires can make more!"...
The players are the ones that put their bodies on the line to make the league successful. They get paid very well for what they do, but there's no reason they shouldn't be paid fairly in relation to league revenues, and I don't blame any of them for being pissed off after the league trumpets how well the league is doing for so long and then turns around and tries to tell them that they're suffering so badly.
I agree that the whole pandering to the fans thing is a hollow gesture, though. Neither side gives a fuck about the fans.
I went into this being pro-players, but with how self-entitled and douchy the players have been commenting on this and how Fehr is NOT negotiating at all and only spouting off bullshit about how instead of compromising as time goes on they'll instead take an even more extreme stance, I can't help but be less pro-player and more pro-owners. At this point, both sides are stupid, greedy cunts.
New to CBA negotiations I see. Of course the owners look like hypocrites signing big deals then claiming poor. But the players running around pretending to be indentured servants while making millions of dollars is bullshit as well.
If the NHL is reluctant to do anything then what does that make the players? At least the league has brought somewhat realistic proposals to the table and made attempts to negotiate. The NHLPA has done nothing but act like a bunch of fucking babies. If they're so worried about the game, then they need to end this horseshit PR campaign they're trying to run and actually sit the fuck down and negotiate.
If the players aren't happy making millions to play hockey, then they can go play in Mongolia for all I care. I'll be happy to watch scab players like Jerkass McFuckballs play for the Blackhawks. I suffered through scab level hockey with the Blackhawks before. I can do it again.
Right, but without the owners, there is no NHL. As far as fairness goes, how is it fair that the players take more than half of the revenues from a business they don't own?
right, and without the players there is no NHL. Jerkwad McFuckyfuck isn't bringing in 17000 people a night. There is enough to move on both sides, both sides aren't moving enough.
I'd go watch a guy with that name.
SpectreFire
Member
Jerkwad McFuckyfuck probably wouldn't bitch about struggling to make a living while being paid millions a year.
And still not pay for shit! That's my biggest issue with the player's complaint. My issue with the owners is that they're not willing to "help other struggling markets."
Looks like the players are willing to compromise while the owners want to strong arm. Again, I'm saying this cause i'm broke but I personally would see it as fair that we (the players) took 57% for the last 7 years so it seems fair that the owners would want to switch. Have something in the CBA that when it's time to agree on a new one, the numbers would be closer to even even.
Or give the players their 57% and have them pay for everything.
I do not agree with this at fucking all. The NHL has tried to change the very definition of "hockey related revenues" out of fucking nowhere. I don't think either side has even come close to being realistic yet. The NHL started with a "fuck you" proposal and it's been like that ever since on the core issues.
The NHL wouldn't be as popular but it wouldn't cease to exist.
alexthekid
Member
If you, as an almost monopoly decide to put a lock on how much of the revenue that is supposed to the employees, which render them unable to negotiate freely, then more than half of the revenue going to the employees don't seem to crazy for me.
Especially when your whole business is built around showing the employees as entertainment. Atleast when the team is doing good, with the exceptions mainly put there by the boss himself.
But goddamn I don't really care if the deal is "fair" to me anymore, I just wan´t to watch the best hockey in the world again!
There are always going to be players. Give it enough time and people would be buying McFuckyfuck's jersey.
Not at first, but as the revenues of the league grew you'd eventually end up with the same issues. It's the nature of professional sports. It's not just any regular business.
alexthekid
Member
And the biggest problem to me is that there is no limit where I can see the owners stopping. Next negotiation: league earns more than ever, crazy teams in crazy markets is still losing money, lower the players percentage!
BigJonsson
Member
Look how fast the salary floor/cap went up, the players are going to end up getting paid much more even at 50/50
That's exactly it as well. If the players roll over every time (last time with the salary cap and now this time) then the owners will just continue to steamroll them every CBA because they know they can.
alexthekid
Member
And they went up because the revenue went up, so the money to the owners also went up?
BigJonsson
Member
I feel like people bitch about the players because their salaries are common knowledge. The team revenues, however, are not.
You're exactly right, though.
For the most part, the players have guaranteed contracts. Until that changes, I give no fucks about their ability to negotiate freely. In any other business, Wade Redden would have gotten his contract shredded and been out on his ass a long time ago. He entertains nobody yet the Rangers are still stuck shelling out $6M a year for him. Even if they bought him out they still have to pay millions to him for being shitty at his job.
When you're investing millions of dollars into someone, you damn well better have the option to restrict movement. It'd be total bullshit if you pay a player millions and then he decides to just up and leave one day(excluding retirement). Unless the players want to start discussing non-compete clauses......
Put it at 50/50 permanently. Tattoo it on Bettman and Fehr's faces if you have to.alexthekid said:
alexthekid
Member
And the owners money will go up even more rapidly than before?
What I mean is you'll have a lot more people that off the top of their head know Luongo made $10 million in the first couple years of his contract than people that know the Canucks made $146 million in revenue last year.
SpectreFire
Member
The problem is that the owners don't make that much money. If we want to talk about who's making what, a lot of players are probably making more money off of their teams than their owners are. Shea Weber is one that instantly pops into mind.
The league as a whole isn't that successful, the three teams that make up the bulk of the league's revenues are very successful, and that's primarily what keeps it afloat.
$120 million of that revenue goes to paying for team contracts, staff arena costs and other expenses. At the end of the day, the Aquillinis only pocket around $27 million, and they're only one of 12 teams that pocket any kind of money.
alexthekid
Member
Sorry, don´t think my message came trough, I didn´t mean negotiate freely as in negotiate with another club while under contract if that is what you mean? I just meant that it stops players from asking for what the owners think that he is worth. Of course if he signs for an amount for a certain time, its an agreement of him and the club, they should pay for the entire time and he should play for the entire time(fuck Tim Thomas). I just meant that it messes with the values that the GM put on the players(by offering contracts) and when you do that I think that you should be very careful with lowering the bar more without a real necessity(the league losing money).
And don´t read this as me being against the cap and wanting a free market, I just think that when you implement a system like this, both parts has to make sacrifices for the better of everyone. If they lower it while the league is earning a lot of money, to me it feels like the owners aren´t doing their sacrifices. And I don´t think that it is something with today's percentage that is special, and that it is more fair then another number, say 50-50 but to lower it, when the league is doing good, the next negotiation after implementing it, seems weird to me.
LOL wall of text hope some of my points made it through
alexthekid
Member
I don´t think that every owner, in every market, by definition should make money. Using your capital to buy something shouldn't guarantee your money to grow if it isn't a good deal. And if they should, they should get help from other owners because they are helping to make the league stronger. Weber however I think is doing a great job, and should be paid thereafter, somewhat I think that the players are already helping Nsh by accepting to put a roof on their salaries from the beginning.
EDIT: Did you edit int he last part or did i just miss it? only twelve teams making profits seems terrible. Seriously didn´t know this, but they say that the league are doing better and better for every year, how bad was it before the cap?
bonesmccoy
Banned
Revenues are not the same thing as profits.
That list doesn't include playoff revenue, though, right? Which is when the real money is made for the 16 teams that make it anyway.
SpectreFire
Member
I think the biggest issue here, is that the players are dumb. That's why they hired Fehr, that's why they believe everything that comes flying out of his ass. The owners are greedy, but they at least seem to realize that hockey just isn't as big as the MLB or NFL, so they want to grab a bigger piece of the pie to compensate for a smaller pie.
The players on the other hand, seem to think they should be paid like MLB stars, and Fehr is just fanning that delusion. Yes, I agree with a salary rollback and a decrease in salary cap because it's climbed too fast. When Shane Doan is fucking demanding $6 million a season and thinks he deserves it, and likewise with Parise and Suter, then fuck, there is something horribly wrong with how much NHL players think they're worth.
The players on the other hand, seem to think they should be paid like MLB stars, and Fehr is just fanning that delusion. Yes, I agree with a salary rollback and a decrease in salary cap because it's climbed too fast. When Shane Doan is fucking demanding $6 million a season and thinks he deserves it, and likewise with Parise and Suter, then fuck, there is something horribly wrong with how much NHL players think they're worth.
alexthekid
Member
I never meant that they were, that would be ridiculous.
SpectreFire
Member
I think the biggest issue here, is that the players are dumb. That's why they hired Fehr, that's why they believe everything that comes flying out of his ass. The owners are greedy, but they at least seem to realize that hockey just isn't as big as the MLB or NFL, so they want to grab a bigger piece of the pie to compensate for a smaller pie.
The players on the other hand, seem to think they should be paid like MLB stars, and Fehr is just fanning that delusion. Yes, I agree with a salary rollback and a decrease in salary cap because it's climbed too fast. When Shane Doan is fucking demanding $6 million a season and thinks he deserves it, and likewise with Parise and Suter, then fuck, there is something horribly wrong with how much NHL players think they're worth.
Some teams ARE very good at controlling salary though, the Canucks are probably one of the best in those remarks, and that's why they're one of the teams suffering most right now. Most of our players accepted reasonable salaries, and now they're being screwed because of the ones who demanded to be paid kings ransoms and are crying foul because the league thinks they're overpaid.
The players on the other hand, seem to think they should be paid like MLB stars, and Fehr is just fanning that delusion. Yes, I agree with a salary rollback and a decrease in salary cap because it's climbed too fast. When Shane Doan is fucking demanding $6 million a season and thinks he deserves it, and likewise with Parise and Suter, then fuck, there is something horribly wrong with how much NHL players think they're worth.
No, it shouldn't, and I agree with that, but when 30 teams, are essentially relying on the financial success of 3 teams, then something is horribly wrong, and the NHLPA really shouldn't be saying that the NHL is doing tremendous right now. Canadian teams are doing tremendous and so are the few major market American teams, the rest are still doing absolutely abysmal in terms of revenue.
Some teams ARE very good at controlling salary though, the Canucks are probably one of the best in those remarks, and that's why they're one of the teams suffering most right now. Most of our players accepted reasonable salaries, and now they're being screwed because of the ones who demanded to be paid kings ransoms and are crying foul because the league thinks they're overpaid.
It doesn't, but the trend should still follow. Look at Phoenix, they had a big playoff push last season and they still barely made any money. Also, playoff revenue isn't guaranteed money, since its not guaranteed that a team will make it in and stay in it for a long duration. It's too all over the place to really count those numbers. Every team plays the same number of regular season game and it's much more accurate and easier to judge their revenues and profits based on that.
alexthekid
Member
To show how much some players earned before the cap was invented and the GM´s where free to offer a player how much they thought that they where worth to the club.
These numbers are from 2001 and in Swedish kronor:
1. Peter Forsberg, Colorado Avalanche 121 Mkr 2. Mats Sundin, Toronto Maple Leafs 82,5 Mkr 3. Nicklas Lidström, Detroit Red Wings 79,5 Mkr 4. Markus Näslund, Vancouver Canucks 44 Mkr 5. Tommy Salo, Edmonton Oilers 33 Mkr 6. Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa Senators 30,8 Mkr 7. Mikael Renberg, Toronto Maple Leafs 22 Mkr 8. Mattias Öhlund, Vancouver Canucks 22 Mkr 9. Calle Johansson, Washington Capitals 22 Mkr 10. Kenny Jönsson, NY Islanders 20,4 Mkr
I can´t find the correct exchange rate but it seems like it was around 6,5-7 Kr/dollar in 2000, if it was the same in 2001 then
Forsberg got more then 15 M dollars/yr
Sundin and Lidstrom over 10
Öhlund and johansson over 3
And this was over 10 years ago.
I just wanted to bring this up when the argument about salaries getting crazy was up. I don´t think that anyone should earn that amount for playing hockey, I would prefer a bigger part of it going into helping the society overall, but this is the US and that won´t happen. So I don´t think that it is so crazy that the Captain of Phx get 6 M when Tommy Salo was getting over 4 M in 2001 when the GM's was giving him contracts reflecting what they thought that he was worth to the organistation.
EDIT: hope that any exchange rate differences fucked my thinking up to bad
These numbers are from 2001 and in Swedish kronor:
1. Peter Forsberg, Colorado Avalanche 121 Mkr 2. Mats Sundin, Toronto Maple Leafs 82,5 Mkr 3. Nicklas Lidström, Detroit Red Wings 79,5 Mkr 4. Markus Näslund, Vancouver Canucks 44 Mkr 5. Tommy Salo, Edmonton Oilers 33 Mkr 6. Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa Senators 30,8 Mkr 7. Mikael Renberg, Toronto Maple Leafs 22 Mkr 8. Mattias Öhlund, Vancouver Canucks 22 Mkr 9. Calle Johansson, Washington Capitals 22 Mkr 10. Kenny Jönsson, NY Islanders 20,4 Mkr
I can´t find the correct exchange rate but it seems like it was around 6,5-7 Kr/dollar in 2000, if it was the same in 2001 then
Forsberg got more then 15 M dollars/yr
Sundin and Lidstrom over 10
Öhlund and johansson over 3
And this was over 10 years ago.
I just wanted to bring this up when the argument about salaries getting crazy was up. I don´t think that anyone should earn that amount for playing hockey, I would prefer a bigger part of it going into helping the society overall, but this is the US and that won´t happen. So I don´t think that it is so crazy that the Captain of Phx get 6 M when Tommy Salo was getting over 4 M in 2001 when the GM's was giving him contracts reflecting what they thought that he was worth to the organistation.
EDIT: hope that any exchange rate differences fucked my thinking up to bad
Why? The owners, who know exactly what they can and can't spend are paying the salaries and signing the contracts. If they can't afford it and are doing it only to stay competitive but lose money hand over fist that's an inherent problem with the system.
I dont understand why its the players fault when the owners are signing the checks.
What makes this worse is owners were willing to give it to them before the CBA expired.