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[darscot]

The players aren't going to like the 50% tax on 34 million.

 

[Pochacco]

Bettman's letter makes 100% sense to me.
It's nice to see that they acknowledge how many fans they've already lost.
This offer, although good, doesn't seem drastic enough though.
Whatever happens, I think we're gonna see the league shrinking the next few years...or at least I hope it does.

-edit-
btw, what's up with Bettman's letter?
Don't these guys have cellphones?
What drama queens.

 

[beerbelly]

Yay. Hockey is back

 

[android]

Yay. Hockey is back

:lol

 

[Kifimbo]

If the start of the season is announced tomorrow, I'll watch the season with one of the biggest interest I've had in the past few years 'cept the habs playoff runs.

20 games season? Hell fking yeah, EVERY games count. 82 games sucks so much and I'm the first who wants the season to be shortnened.

I disagree. In 1994, the 48 games season mostly sucked because players were out of shape. The playoffs were better, but not as good as usual. If there is a 20 games season, 50% of ther players will be in shape, and the other half will look like pee-wee. It will only be interesting to see the race for last place...the race to draft Crosby. Which team will finished with 0-20?

 

[Mainline]

Go Jets Go. Seriously.

 

[SystemShark]

NHLPA just countered the NHL's "final offer" of 42.5 million with a 49 million offer.

Bye bye season.

Mike Works:

Pfft, he ends up chickening out, Bertuzzi will just have to make him retire. He got Macinnis. He got Jackman.

You forgot Moore. Am I right?!

 

[BigJonsson]

lol

so if they could just set it at 45-46 we could have hockey?!

A few million really doesn't justify cancelling the season

 

[Malakhov]

I'm telling you, 45.

 

[SystemShark]

Hrmm

Goodenow to Bettman:
Dear Gary,

Yesterday afternoon, Bill Daly presented us with an offer from the League that, for the first time, was not linked to League-wide revenues. We appreciated your willingness to adjust your position and we worked to respond in kind. By evening, we had fashioned and reached out to you with an offer from the PA that included, for the first time, a team maximum cap. This offer built upon the 24% rollback and other changes in favour of clubs, which were presented by the Players on December 9, 2004.

As you know, and as Ted told Bill, our offer of a team cap represented a radical step for the PA. We took this step because we too believe that our sport will be damaged greatly by the cancellation of this season and the continuation of the lockout through next season.


We wish that the NHL had offered a no linkage proposal before yesterday so that negotiations in that arena could have commenced sooner. However, we recognize that they did not and we agree that time is short.

In that spirit, and in a final attempt to reach an agreement, we are adjusting our offer of yesterday in two respects. First, we are reducing the maximum individual team cap to $49 million in salary, which does not include the $2.2 million per team in benefits due.

Second, we will adjust our exception provision so that it is available to teams only twice during the six year term and for up to only 10% over the limit of $49 million (to $53.9 million), at the tax rate of 150%. The exception provision is important so that a successful team does not have to arbitrarily dismantle its roster after it has achieved particular success or is in a unique phase of its player roster cycle.

I have attached a short summary of the main deal points discussed by Bill and Ted yesterday, as modified above.

I can be reached at the usual phone numbers.

Regards,

Robert W. Goodenow
Executive Director & General Counsel

NEW CBA DEAL POINTS

1. Term - 6 full seasons (through 9-15-11).

2. CBA System Incorporation of NHLPA December 9, 2004 proposal into the recently expired CBA, with indexing of financial provisions (per diems, etc.) at 2% per year, with the following additional changes requested by the NHL yesterday:

(a) Increased salary arbitration rights for Clubs -- to be agreed upon. Salary arbitration available after Player leaves Entry Level System.

(b) Cap on Exhibit 5 Individual B Performance Bonuses -- to be agreed upon.

© Replace NHLPA Revenue Sharing Plan with NHL Revenue Sharing Plan to share at least $88M in each year of the Agreement. Clubs may credit any payroll taxes paid against their revenue sharing contribution.

3. Team Payroll Limit - $49M in salary and bonuses

4. Minimum Team Payroll - $25M (each team can fall no more than 10% below only twice during term).

5. Minimum Player Salary - $300K (as per NHL Proposal)

6. Payroll Taxes - $40M - $43M (25%)
$43M - $46M (50%)
$46M - $49M (75%)
$49M - $53.9M (150%) only twice per team during 6 year term

7. Indexing of Tax Rates and Payroll Minimums & Maximums All dollar amounts would be in place for 2004-05 (pro-rated) and 2005-06. Dollar levels for tax rates, payroll minimums & maximums for subsequent years either constant or increased by % change in greater of either hockey related revenues or only the gate receipts and broadcasting segments of hockey related revenues from the 2005-06 base year.

8. 2005 Playoffs 55% of playoff revenues to be paid to Players for the 2005 playoffs.

 

[Malakhov]

PA's original offer was 46 million. To go up to 49 is a slap in the face to the NHL. I don't see anything getting worked out now.

It was 52.

 

[theo]

lol

so if they could just set it at 45-46 we could have hockey?!

A few million really doesn't justify cancelling the season

Bettman has the players by the balls now. They must realize this, and if theyre smart they will cave by 11am tomorrow.

 

[Mike Works]

You forgot Moore. Am I right?!

1) Moore isn't a St Louis Blues defenseman

2) More like Moore forgot Moore, rite!!

 

[Mrbob]

Do hockey fans really want a 28 game season followed by the playoffs?

It just seems so limiting.

Can you really crown a team a true champ after playing only 28 regular season games?

 

[Mike Works]

I'm sure a lot of them do, just so they can see hockey, but I don't. I'd much rather have a once only tournament sanctioned by the NHL which would at least determine draft choices (winner gets high pick this time). That'd piss off Washington and Chicago so bad :lol

 

[BigJonsson]

Do hockey fans really want a 28 game season followed by the playoffs?

It just seems so limiting.

Can you really crown a team a true champ after playing only 28 regular season games?

Anything is better than nothing

 

[BigJonsson]

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman swiftly rejected the players latest offer of a $49 million cap.


The insanity continues

 

[calder]

The best, and for me pretty much only, reason to want a season now is that if they don't settle now we'll have a shortened season next year too.

My dream scenario is they cancel this season but agree to work out the CBA over the next few weeks and then spend the whole summer coming up with rule changes.

 

[BigJonsson]

The best, and for me pretty much only, reason to want a season now is that if they don't settle now we'll have a shortened season next year too.

My dream scenario is they cancel this season but agree to work out the CBA over the next few weeks and then spend the whole summer coming up with rule changes.

But I want to be able to talk about the Leafs NOW!

And bars and such would be able to make some money

 

[Bigfoot]

Do hockey fans really want a 28 game season followed by the playoffs?

It just seems so limiting.

Can you really crown a team a true champ after playing only 28 regular season games?

Why not? Football only has 16 regular season games. I think it will actally be better... now every games means something. They should shorten the regular season to 50 games or something.

 

[dem]

Funny thing how Gary decided to take that retarded 24% rollback that the pa offered.. and have it in the rest of the proposals.

Genius.
Goodenow got smacked around with that :lol

 

[BigJonsson]

Funny thing how Gary decided to take that retarded 24% rollback that the pa offered.. and have it in the rest of the proposals.

Genius.
Goodenow got smacked around with that :lol

You propose somethine you better stick with it lol

 

[theo]

wonder if the league will cut ticket prices. i would recommend they do so if they want any semblance of a crowd at their games.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

wonder if the league will cut ticket prices. i would recommend they do so if they want any semblance of a crowd at their games.

The NHL's never had a problem getting decent sized crowds out to any of its teams. The problem lies in the fact that many teams NEED a near capacity crowd every game just to break even. Barring drastic action, I doubt ticket prices will ever go down...after all, who givew a shit about the fans?

 

[tralfazz]

I have attached a short summary of the main deal points discussed by Bill and Ted yesterday, as modified above.

This explains alot.

 

[calder]

Ok, here goes, my dream outcome:

- the NHL and PA call a press conference where they apologize for the mess but say they'll fix it. This season is cancelled, but a new CBA gets hammered out over the next few weeks. No quickie last-second agreement that ends up deeply flawed like last time. The league gets a cap to help the disparity in team salaries and there's a tax/revenue sharing system to help the smaller markets and the players get... well something I guess. They had plenty the last few CBA's. ;P

- the new CBA stabalizes the league but the value of the franchises tumbles a bit to a more reasonable levels as everyone realizes that the sport will never be more than a regional fancy in the US - and that's ok. No one ever mistakes hockey for the 4th "major pro sport" in North America again. Teams don't fold but if they want to move one of the sun-belt teams to somewhere where there's a deep love for the game and the NHL and a new arena they could check out central Canada maybe sometimes perhaps.

- the NHL encourages players to play for their countries at the upcoming World Championship. The lack of CBA hand wringing means that the event isn't as overshadowed as the poor World Cup was, and it being in Europe helps market the NHL and mend some fences over there. Sorry about shipping McCabe over the pond, Europe! Apologies for his "defence" and "work ethic", our bad!

- Chris Pronger heckled mercilessly on the road. I fully expect chants of "RE-TIRE! RE-TIRE!" every time he steps on the ice on the road. This should happen no matter what.

- during the summer the league and PA come up with some rule changes. Goalie equipment is reduced from "utterly absurd" to "just oversized". Goalies are forced to stop pretending they are untouchable rovers. No-touch icing comes in, and the shoot-out is used to settle ties. I don't like the SO, but it'll happen so may as well accept it. At least I can be on the "I told you so" bandwagon when in 5 years everyone is tired of the gimmick and they get rid of it. Any other ideas Shanahan's little summit had are welcome, and shit if the league wants to try another obstruction crackdown it can't hurt.

- the season is reduced to 72 games, with the playoffs starting a few weeks early but the games also are spread out a bit to improve travel. I can't stress enough how much I think this would help, and it would be very popular with the players. The teams make most of their money in the playoffs anyway, and with the cap and revenue sharing (please god real actual revenue sharing) there should be a lot more parity so you hopefully won't have teams stuck out of the playoffs for most of a decade anymore. And if there are they're run like shit so they don't deserve playoff money.

- crippled by an aging roster and lack of draft picks, the Avs miss the playoffs from '06 to about '11. But really, it's coming anyway and it's going to *rock*.


EDIT: oh, my wife and I were at the mall yesterday and she rememebered I had been looking for a new cap so we stopped by a sports memorabilia kiosk and she bought me this for Valentine's day.

Thank god they had an XL to fit my giant melon.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

I have attached a short summary of the main deal points discussed by Bill and Ted yesterday, as modified above.

This explains alot.

Dude! That means Bill and Ted can use time travel to figure out a way to solve this problem! Excellent! *air guitar*

 

[Drensch]

Anyone else hoping, secretly, that they don't get a deal done?

Yes. Buckling on a cap would be bs.

Wah-wah, my team can't pay me more than 3 million a season, I'm quitting. FUCK YOU, PLAYERS.

Wah-wah, as a vanity toy I bought a hockey team with a pittance of my millions of dollars. I pay no property taxes, and local government built me this brand new state of the art arena. I bamboozled local government with promises of new jobs when all I brought were a bunch of minimum wage seasonal jobs. I charge 4 dollars for a bottle of water and get 100% of all concessions, the best seats go to corporate sponsors and a family pack is 200$. I won a bidding war for a 2nd line center who scores 8 goals a season and 25 points , I beat myself out for this player to whom I offered 6 million dollars. No hockey means one less tax write off for me and 10 million dollars less tax free income. Fuck You owners.

 

[beerbelly]

"TSN.ca/CP

2/15/2005

NEW YORK (CP) - It took less than an hour for the NHL to reject an NHL Players' Association counter-proposal to end the lockout Tuesday night."

http://www.goatinatree.com/tmp/El Bosco - Nirvana.mp3

 

[dem]

Goodenow with another letter. How bizarre is this?

Dear Gary,



This is in reply to your most recent letter.


1. Your claim that the Clubs ''cannot afford'' our proposal is based on your hypothetical fear of what would happen if every team spent to the $49 million level the Players have proposed. The notion that ''every Club'' will spend at the $49 million level is contradicted by years of actual payroll experience under the old CBA system and by Exhibit 12 of your December 14 document (attached for your recollection), in which you projected 24 teams well below the $49 million level after the rollback. Further, this experience is based on an environment without revenue sharing, taxes on team payrolls and the numerous new system restrictions.

2. Based on your own calculations from Exhibit 12, over 21 Clubs are spending significantly less than your team payroll limit number of $42.5 million. I am at a loss to understand how you suggest your offer earlier today represents a $75 million dollar increase when it only impacts the spending of nine teams!


You will receive nothing further from us.


Regards,

NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE
PLAYERS ASSOCIATION



Robert W. Goodenow
Executive Director & General Counsel

 

[Ronald_mcd]

He makes a good point...

 

[spliced]

Why not? Football only has 16 regular season games. I think it will actally be better... now every games means something. They should shorten the regular season to 50 games or something.

Iawtp

I reviewed the negatives of a 28 game season and the only real one was the fact that some players might not come back from Europe.

 

[dem]

I think a deal is guaranteed to get done tomorrow. They're only 6.5 apart on a cap. They'd have to be idiots not to think of a way to bridge the gap now.

Move the cap to 44 and implement a salary floor at 29 mil.
There you go.. its done.

 

[Mike Works]

DRAMA!

 

[calder]

I love Goodenow's uncanny ability to write a weasely lawyer letter where you can still hear the whining and feel the pouting just looking at the text. His little hissy letters to his good pal Gary read like a kid raised on IM trying to write a proper letter and sound mature but he keeps getting pissed and throwing a bunch of ! around. I bet Goodenow's next letter to the NHL ends with "Your last offer made me LOL it is sooooooo f'ing lame. You totally contradict yourself, bitch!"

 

[TheOMan]

Ok, here goes, my dream outcome:

::calder's dream sequence::


EDIT: oh, my wife and I were at the mall yesterday and she rememebered I had been looking for a new cap so we stopped by a sports memorabilia kiosk and she bought me this for Valentine's day.

Thank god they had an XL to fit my giant melon.

If you don't mind my asking, which kiosk/mall did you pick that cap up from? It would be perfect as a birthday gift for friend of mine. (I'm assuming it's River City Sports across the street from Polo based on the picture watermark, but I want to be sure).

 

[Pochacco]

SHIT!!!!
These letters are HILARIOUS!!!!!!

Goodenow is an absolutely douche.
How fucking immature can these two get? They're still playing the blame game.

I'd love to play poker with these guys. It would be EASY money.

Bettman: "All in"
Goodenow: "I'll see your all in, and raise you $20"
Bettman: "....uh, no?"
Goodenow: "You will receive nothing further from us."

FAACCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK. It boggles the mind.

 

[calder]

Nope, not a RiverCity Sports (that's just where I got the image). It was that sports store in the walkway between The Bay and Portage Place. The guy has a ton of great Jets shirts and a fairly good selection of hats and stuff.

The guy who runs it is a bit chatty (probably lonely working by himself ) and he was saying how the sale of Jets stuff has just exploded the last few years. People were bitter and burnt out for a while, but in his little kiosk he said he sold like 10-20 Jets' tshirts and caps on Valentines day and was selling more every day the few weeks leading up to christmas.

 

[Mike Works]

Dear calder,



This is in reply to your most recent letter.


1. STFU

2. STFU!!!!!!!!!!

You will receive nothing further from us.


Regards,

NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE
PLAYERS ASSOCIATION



Robert W. Goodenow
Executive Director & General Counsel

Startling!

 

[TheOMan]

Nope, not a RiverCity Sports (that's just where I got the image). It was that sports store in the walkway between The Bay and Portage Place. The guy has a ton of great Jets shirts and a fairly good selection of hats and stuff.

The guy who runs it is a bit chatty (probably lonely working by himself ) and he was saying how the sale of Jets stuff has just exploded the last few years. People were bitter and burnt out for a while, but in his little kiosk he said he sold like 10-20 Jets' tshirts and caps on Valentines day and was selling more every day the few weeks leading up to christmas.

Ah, perfect - I think I know the spot you're talking about (I was actually right around there yesterday (Monday). Thanks man. I miss the Jets, that game a little while back on TSN reminded me how much

 

[Gregory]

Then again, the NFL has 14. Hm...

:lol WHAT?

The NFL only plays 14 games per season? Seriously? I lost all of the, admittedly low, respect I had for this sport and it`s players right here and now. I thought they played 80+ games like the others. 14? How the hell?

 

[SickBoy]

:lol WHAT?

The NFL only plays 14 games per season? Seriously? I lost all of the, admittedly low, respect I had for this sport and it`s players right here and now. I thought they played 80+ games like the others. 14? How the hell?

Actually, it plays 16, and it's fantastic.

 

[dem]

Hmmm

Seems like a deal isnt going to get done. Everyone on TSN seems to think its over.

 

[dem]

Sportsnet has learned the league will come off their hard stance of $42.5 million but will not accept the union's latest offer of $49 million.

Clock is ticking....
Game over at 11 est

 

[calder]

Slam.ca is reporting that neither side said anything this morning (but some sources, I think Pierre Lebrun at CP, say the league was willing to move off it's 'final offer' cap limit of 42.5 but not to the level the PA was offering) and the deadline is passed, so in theory the press conference is on in a couple of hours. Time to put a stake through the heart of this shambling, undead monstrosity of a potential season's rotting corpse.


Good stuff from Bruce Garrioch from the Sun:

While the possibility of a deal was far from certain, the NHLPA's decision to accept a salary cap left a number of players red-faced and wondering why the union would decide to bend over backward at the 11th hour.

"I think we gave up too much," Senators goaltender Dominik Hasek told The Score yesterday.

And Hasek wasn't the only one feeling that way. Sources say the NHLPA's private website -- The Source -- was flooded with messages from union members who were frustrated by the union's offer to accept a $52-million cap.

"I am thoroughly embarrassed with the union," said one veteran player. "We've been preaching for five months that we're not going to accept a cap and then we have the rug pulled out from under us at the end.

"How the hell do you think I feel? What did we go through all this for? We come out and propose a hard cap at the end. That was something we said we would never accept. I just can't believe it."

Sources also say many players are upset with an initiative by Chris Pronger, Jarome Iginla, Jeremy Roenick and Robert Esche to push the union to accept a cap.

The word around the league is two players -- possibly Pronger and Esche -- placed calls to NHL VP Bill Daly on the weekend directly to see what it would take to get a deal done, which further irritated NHLPA members.

Now that the NHLPA has collapsed on the issue of a hard salary cap -- although it wasn't willing to accept one with a link to revenue -- there's some sense there are players who were nervous about what the future held if the season was cancelled.

According to Roenick, the group was trying to gauge whether players would accept a hard cap. And while Roenick and friends didn't write the actual proposal that was made Monday, they played a role -- another thing that irked NHLPA brethren, many of whom ripped into them on the union's website.

"We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime," Chicago forward Matthew Barnaby told reporters yesterday near Buffalo. "Am I mad, no? I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker and to have someone call your bluff."

There's word some players may have insinuated they would make a move to get Goodenow removed from his post if something wasn't done by the union to avoid Bettman's plan of bringing in replacement players.

"We've been saying all along, 'No cap, No cap,' and that's part of negotiations," Senators defenceman Wade Redden said from Edmonton. "It just seems to me that we've been giving and giving and it's got to stop some place.

REDDEN 'SURPRISED'

"I just hope that this gets a deal done. We've been the ones willing to negotiate throughout this whole thing because we just want to play the game. It's pretty obvious how important it is we feel about playing. It was just surprising to hear everything changed (about accepting a cap) ... that's for sure."

Pronger pushing for a cap deal? Har har, that's some funny shit there if true.

And what I wouldn't give to be able to read the PA's private website. Come on haxx0rs, set me up with a nick/pass so that I can see them rip into each other, that board would be even more fun than the GAF mod forum to browse through.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Thread over, season over, according to Montreal news.

EDIT: OH WAIT! ACCORDING TO THIS EVER-OPTIMISTIC SELF-PROCLAIMED INSIDER, IT'S NOT!

http://hockeyrumors.blogspot.com/

Oh well, I still say it is.

 

[dem]

Unless someone steps up in the next hour and puts 45 out there.. its over.

Quite frankly the owners should just throw the PA a bone. Theyve gotten almost everything they wanted. A hard cap at 45 is MUCH, MUCH better than what they had previously.

 

[Azih]

HAW, those letters were like a forum bitch fight that ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING. Twas bizzare.


YOU WILL RECIEVE NOTHING FURTHER FROM US should be the new GAF catchprase that will be banned in a few weeks/months.

Edit: And I've only been very casually following the whole debacle, but why do I get the impression that the actual players (not the NHLPA) are the most divorced from reality in all of this?

 

[Manics]

This is the biggest game of public poker ever played. 1 hour left until the press conference. Who folds his hand first?

 

[calder]

The one thing about this whole fiasco that I'm looking forward to are the awesome books that are going to come out of it. It likely will take 5 years or more for a couple of reporters to do enough background interviews to do the whole story justice, but the whole complex legal/PR/economic negotiations along with the bizarre personal dynamics of Bob and Gary (and pretty much everyone else too) will make for some truly interesting reading one day. Will the NHLPA even be around in it's current form in 2 years? Will the league itself? (my guess: no and yes)

and to test out my new forum sig:


================================
YOU WILL RECEIVE NOTHING FURTHER FROM ME.