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[Redshirt]

Carlin would have defended this joke, he was relentless against PC overreach. He would have made similar jokes had he been around today. This is the guy who said "I'll prove to you rape can be funny - picture Elmur Fudd raping Porky Pig" and "you ever notice the people protesting abortion are the kind of people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place?"

I'm not buying it. In fact, I don't think you get Carlin at all.

 

[Nymphae]

I'm not buying it. In fact, I don't think you get Carlin at all.

Ok lol, I'm a huge Carlin fan, read his books and saw him in my hometown. School me on Carlin, please.

 

[Redshirt]

Ok lol, I'm a huge Carlin fan, read his books and saw him in my hometown. School me on Carlin, please.

Better idea: you explain to me how the meme is funny for the average person.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm not buying it. In fact, I don't think you get Carlin at all.

Wait, what is your argument? Are you arguing that Carlin would have not defended this joke, as a comedian, as a vulgar comedian, as someone who was so opposed to the rise of PC culture?

I'm a little confused here.

 

[Nymphae]

Better idea: you explain to me how the meme is funny for the average person.

Here's a concept - jokes do not need to be funny to everyone.

 

[Redshirt]

Here's a concept - jokes do not need to be funny to everyone.

OK. Fair enough. How is it funny to you?

Wait, what is your argument? Are you arguing that Carlin would have not defended this joke, as a comedian, as a vulgar comedian, as someone who was so opposed to the rise of PC culture?

I'm a little confused here.

I'm arguing that Carlin wouldn't have defended it, because it's not a joke.

 

[DeepEnigma]

OK. Fair enough. How is it funny to you?



I'm arguing that Carlin wouldn't have defended it, because it's not a joke.

He would have defended it (if asked), because he was a big proponent of free speech, and very opposed to PC culture having meltdowns over witty dialogue exchanges made from a place of humor.

It doesn't have to be a textbook joke, there can be sarcasm, humor, and wit in dialogue exchange.

 

[TheMay30thMan]

It's odd to me that CDPR felt the need to apologize for a harmless joke when Naughty Dog is constantly insulting their customers.

 

[Redshirt]

He would have defended it (if asked), because he was a big proponent of free speech, and very opposed to PC culture having meltdowns over witty dialogue exchanges made from a place of humor.

It doesn't have to be a textbook joke, there can be sarcasm, humor, and wit in dialogue exchange.

Does this feel like witty dialogue to you?

Nothing about the meme illuminates the scenario, which is what Carlin did consistently.

It simply makes fun of a person, and worse, it shirks responsibility as not being about them in particular but those "dirty SJWs."

 

[petran79]

If people were afraid to offend we wouldn’t have Rockstar Games, Eminem, South Park or George Carlin.

Not all offensive material is good. But often, the good material is offensive.

Or even Rapelay.
The irony is that those writing against it got the game from an illegal copy online and made the best advertisement the developers could imagine

 

[Nymphae]

OK. Fair enough. How is it funny to you?



I'm arguing that Carlin wouldn't have defended it, because it's not a joke.

I'm not sure how you can say it isn't a joke. It was very clearly a joke.

For me the joke is funny because it is sending up PC overreach. It is the same as the joke meme I posted on FB acouple of years ago, and many people liked it (and thus I'm assuming found the humour in it)

It's the same riff - a correct gender assumption is shut down with the question here, because in the current year, even basic assumptions are no longer acceptable to make. Average people see the humor in this joke. No I can't give you stats. My facebook feed of friends enjoyed this, and most of them are liberal.

 

[LittleBusters]

Destructive Creations is my favorite studio. They literally give 0 fucks.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

d about is that we seem to be seeing a different sort of evidence -- games and movies that are suffering, because they are catering to SJW/PC initiatives. Star Wars, the Marvel thing,

Yes for those saying media that caters to SJWs doesn't have a tendency to fail. Seeing star wars one of if not the biggest franchise plummet after embracing SJW politicizing, is a clear indication games shouldn't bother catering to these people.

Marvel Comic sales plummeted, Last Jedi Blu ray sales plummeted, even Solo despite being a very good movie plummeted.

Nah, Trump won because of Hillary and the DNC failed the rustbelt.

Trump turned many swing states across the country, outside of california he won over 1.5 million lead in the rest of the states.

Exactly why I tell folks not to pay so much stock in to what folks say on threads exaggerated junk. They said the same crap about Battlefront 1 and it went on to move record units outselling every Star Wars game before it in mere weeks. I think the sales of Battlefront V and even Call Of Duty have more to do with Fortnite, PubG taking away sales on the casual front and Red Dead 2 coming out so soon around those 2 games.

Like many SJW's, I don't think the folks creating their fake "controversies" even play much games to actually really even do much if any damage, they are simply a small minority pretending this is REALLY an issue. Wouldn't be the first time a SJW got mad at a game having a demographic in it that triggered them and clearly went on to show MUST of us don't really care or judge games based on such dumb things.

https://www.windowscentral.com/far-cry-5-breaks-franchises-sales-records

True these small minority of outrage social media producers are not consumers nor influence consumers, the failure of marvel comics, star wars, the NFL who've also tried leftist politizing show this, as does the strong success of Trump across most of the US. At the same time how much do you think Doom eternal's sales will be affected by offending them? Wouldn't be surprised if it has even greater sales than previous entries. Ignoring them is the thing to do.

To move social boundaries and allow society to evolve boundaries must be constantly pushed. Ending slavery, legalizing gay marriage, women's vote, all of these needed boundaries to be pushed and people to be offended. Progress cannot be halted, and political correctness is an intended brake for progress, it has no place.

Game companies need to realize, the outrage police cannot stop the will of the average mainstream consumer or voter.

 

[LittleBusters]

I'm not sure how you can say it isn't a joke. It was very clearly a joke.

For me the joke is funny because it is sending up PC overreach. It is the same as the joke meme I posted on FB acouple of years ago, and many people liked it (and thus I'm assuming found the humour in it)

It's the same riff - a correct gender assumption is shut down with the question here, because in the current year, even basic assumptions are no longer acceptable to make. Average people see the humor in this joke. No I can't give you stats. My facebook feed of friends enjoyed this, and most of them are liberal.

Yet if you shared this at a current workplace > 500 employees you would likely at least be called into HR or fired.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Does this feel like witty dialogue to you?

Nothing about the meme illuminates the scenario, which is what Carlin did consistently.

It simply makes fun of a person, and worse, it shirks responsibility as not being about them in particular but those "dirty SJWs."

Yes I thought it was witty, and I honestly believe people need mental help who ask that very question of other's in a very passive-aggressive way.

They are the aggressor, especially when innocent people are attacked and berated who had no malice behind their intent.

We should not be propping up that kind of behavior in public discourse. It is not healthy, and those that take it to an extreme level, you can't help just laugh at, a pitty laugh.

So a little witty joke or a comment shedding light on how ridiculous they sound when they say that, and then on top of it seeing this manufactured outrage as if it's encouraged, is well, regressive in not only speech, but how one acts on a social level.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Does this feel like witty dialogue to you?

Nothing about the meme illuminates the scenario, which is what Carlin did consistently.

It simply makes fun of a person, and worse, it shirks responsibility as not being about them in particular but those "dirty SJWs."

The thing is what is being made fun of? Is it trans people? Doesn't seem so. It seems it is the genderfluid community that believes biological sex and physical appearance has nothing to do with gender. That believe you can be any gender even nonsensical ones regardless of your physical constitution. The people creating dozens of gender pronouns that want to force by penalty of law that they're called made up titles without meaning.

The trans community either embraces the appearance of the corresponding gender, even with ops, or while preop does their best to embrace the appearance of the gender they identify with even using hormones and the like. Because they know that physical appearance, is indeed tied to gender.

 

[Redshirt]

Yes I thought it was witty, and I honestly believe people need mental help who ask that very question of other's in a very passive-aggressive way.

They are the aggressor, especially when innocent people are attacked and berated who had no malice behind their intent.

We should not be propping up that kind of behavior in public discourse. It is not healthy, and those that take it to an extreme level, you can't help just laugh at, a pitty laugh.

So a little witty joke or a comment shedding light on how ridiculous they sound when they say that, and then on top of it seeing this manufactured outrage as if it's encouraged, is well, regressive in not only speech, but how one acts on a social level.

I like you, and I guarantee you are going to look back on posts like these and be embarrassed by them.

 

[Nymphae]

I like you, and I guarantee you are going to look back on posts like these and be embarrassed by them.

lol wow. The condescension.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I like you, and I guarantee you are going to look back on posts like these and be embarrassed by them.

Not at all. There have been plenty of things in the past that I look back on and attribute to ignorance and immaturity, but this is not one of them.

Sure we should always try and extend people a courteous hand. We should try and treat people with respect and tact that will will return the favor. But if you're going to stick up for people that lead with their feelings over logic, and berate others because of their own insecurities when the person they're berating had zero malice by assuming they happen to be a male or female that is just flat-out ridiculous.

Those people need help coping with things they are going to run into in the real world, and realize not everybody is an asshole because they assumed something wrongly (to you). But rather, maybe you're projecting something on to them if you feel the need that a simple mistake deserves a passive-aggressive strip down of that person.

 

[Redshirt]

Sorry. If that came across as condescension. Wasn't my intention at all.

I just mean that DeepEnigma has a real personality here on GAF that extends to you know... games.

We have a lot of political-only people on GAF nowadays.

And I'm off. Real-life responsibilities await, so until tomorrow.

 

[EDMIX]

Yes for those saying media that caters to SJWs doesn't have a tendency to fail. Seeing star wars one of if not the biggest franchise plummet after embracing SJW politicizing, is a clear indication games shouldn't bother catering to these people.

Marvel Comic sales plummeted, Last Jedi Blu ray sales plummeted, even Solo despite being a very good movie plummeted.


Trump turned many swing states across the country, outside of california he won over 1.5 million lead in the rest of the states.


True these small minority of outrage social media producers are not consumers nor influence consumers, the failure of marvel comics, star wars, the NFL who've also tried leftist politizing show this, as does the strong success of Trump across most of the US. At the same time how much do you think Doom eternal's sales will be affected by offending them? Wouldn't be surprised if it has even greater sales than previous entries. Ignoring them is the thing to do.

To move social boundaries and allow society to evolve boundaries must be constantly pushed. Ending slavery, legalizing gay marriage, women's vote, all of these needed boundaries to be pushed and people to be offended. Progress cannot be halted, and political correctness is an intended brake for progress, it has no place.

Game companies need to realize, the outrage police cannot stop the will of the average mainstream consumer or voter.

.

The same can be stated about both sides.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sorry. If that came across as condescension. Wasn't my intention at all.

I just mean that DeepEnigma has a real personality here on GAF that extends to you know... games.

We have a lot of political-only people on GAF nowadays.

And I'm off. Real-life responsibilities await, so until tomorrow.

I have been on this site for over 4 years now I think, and I have never popped into Off-Topic once I believe, until just recently the past month or two.

I can multi-task.

Check my post history prior to that. 100% games, so I do not know what you are hinting at here in an, ironically passive-aggressive manner. Just say what you mean to say, wit yo' chest boi!

Once gaming side picks up more, and it is starting to, I will be encouraged to spend more time here.

 

[Redshirt]

I have been on this site for over 4 years now I think, and I have never popped into Off-Topic once I believe, until just recently the past month or two.

I can multi-task.

Check my post history prior to that. 100% games, so I do not know what you are hinting at here in an, ironically passive-aggressive manner. Just say what you mean to say, wit yo' chest boi!

Once gaming side picks up more, and it is starting to, I will be encouraged to spend more time here.

I'm on the run, but I was being legit. I wasn't taking a shot at you.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Excellent article.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

.

The same can be stated about both sides.

Not sure what you mean one side merely wants politization and modern day politics out of their media and entertainment, the other wants to shove political messages down our throats.

One side says Free Speech, be brave and be bold be free to express controversial topics if you like as part of the art, the other is saying restrict and censor your art you must be politically correct and offend no one.

What would be the equivalent to get woke go broke?

 

[EDMIX]

Not sure what you mean one side merely wants politization and modern day politics out of their media and entertainment, the other wants to shove political messages down our throats.

One side says Free Speech, be brave and be bold be free to express controversial topics if you like as part of the art, the other is saying restrict and censor your art you must be politically correct and offend no one.

What would be the equivalent to get woke go broke?

yea ok. Both sides do this.

Period.

Its dumb regardless of who is doing it. (don't bother replying, ignored, not going to waste time with some ignoring that both sides can and have done this, it would be mathematically impossible to even solely have it be 100% of just 1 side as it doesn't even make complete sense)

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

Yeah but i don't think the "punch a nazi" line was meant for those originally. When a liberal says "punch a nazi" he really means "punch that guy who i say is a nazi".

Did you just assume that assumed Nazi's gender?

But seriously, folks, when you are so casually endorsing violence (for any reason), not only you have lost all perspective, you are becoming the very thing you believe you oppose.

 

[dirthead]

Eh. You might have a point if the meme was in some way funny as opposed to existing just to mock.

The difference with South Park and Carlin is that you can be the butt of the joke and still find humor in it.

You honestly think a lot of Carlin's humor wasn't just mocking things?

 

[Nymphae]

You honestly think a lot of Carlin's humor wasn't just mocking things?

Here's his bit on names he hates lol, I remember hearing this bit when I was younger and thinking, "Wow this isn't even a joke he just hates these names" lol. I love him.

And I'm getting really sick of guys named Todd
It's just a goofy - it's a goofy fucking name, OK? Hi, what's your name?
Todd. I'm Todd. And this is Blake, and Blaire and Blaine and Brent. Where all these goofy fucking boys names coming from?! Taylor, Tyler, Jordan, Flynn. These are not real names! You want to hear a real name? Eddie. Eddie is a real name, whatever happened to Eddie, he was here a minute ago. Joey and Jackie and Johnny and Phil. Bobby and Tommy and Danny and Bill, what happened? Todd. And Cody, and Dylan, and Cameron, and Tucker
Hi Tucker, I'm Todd. Hi Todd, I'm Tucker. Fuck Tucker, Tucker sucks. And fuck Tucker's friend, Kyle. that's another soft name for a boy, Kyle. Soft names make soft people. I'll bet you anything that ten times out of ten, Nicky, Vinnie, and Tony would beat the shit out of Todd, Kyle, and Tucker.

I can hear the SJW jaws dropping at the severity of violence leveled against these unfortunately named individuals. Why so much hatred Mr. Carlin, can't we just all get along?

 

[rabbity-thing]

Reading this thread has been really depressing. Gamers are quickly becoming a profoundly intolerant demographic that are always on the offensive for perceived attacks on their hobby. It's okay for games to strive for more inclusive practices. It's okay for society to critique the intentions of artists and the effects of their art. Some people actually like that the medium is growing up.

Also, it's getting to a point where using the term SJW in a derogatory way is a dog whistle for having homophobic, mysongonistic, and (sometimes) racist opinions.

EDIT: The comments on the article's page are just plain awful. There's a lot of hate there.

 

[Nivrap]

It's okay for games to strive for more inclusive practices. It's okay for society to critique the intentions of artists and the effects of their art. Some people actually like that the medium is growing up.

Who decides what is "okay," or what constitutes "growing up?" You assume that your position is the mature one without ever considering the viewpoint of those of us who oppose these trends.

Also, it's getting to a point where using the term SJW in a derogatory way is a dog whistle for having homophobic, mysongonistic, and (sometimes) racist opinions.

Show us where these hordes of racists, mysoginists, and homophobes are.

 

[Scopa]

Reading this thread has been really depressing...

...Also, it's getting to a point where using the term SJW in a derogatory way is a dog whistle for having homophobic, mysongonistic, and (sometimes) racist opinions.

Ah, here we go again...

Can you point me to all the homophobes, mysoginists and/or racist people in this thread?

I see normal people with their own opinions.

 

[dirthead]

Reading this thread has been really depressing. Gamers are quickly becoming a profoundly intolerant demographic that are always on the offensive for perceived attacks on their hobby. It's okay for games to strive for more inclusive practices. It's okay for society to critique the intentions of artists and the effects of their art. Some people actually like that the medium is growing up.

A lot of people don't believe that the medium is "growing up." A lot of people believe that the medium is being dumbed down and ruined by pathetic attempts to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I have been gaming for over 30 years. The idea that the medium is all of a sudden 'growing up' really is coming from a certain point of view. One that I don't care for.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

One side is disagreeing with the outrage against CDPR's tweet. The other side has gone as far as to dox employees of CDPR. Which one is worse?

https://archive.fo/mXJNf

MattWilsonCSS's post is the one you are talking about right?

The CDPR guy wasn't doxxed. My Lord some of you need to get a grip on reality.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I have been gaming for over 30 years. The idea that the medium is all of a sudden 'growing up' really is coming from a certain point of view. One that I don't care for.

What's strange is that the first decade of videogames were primarily in bars and clubs, played by adults!

But then again, we're talking about journalists and pundits who think poorly-written stories that clumsily highlight minority groups constitute "growing up".

 

[The Mad Draklor]

https://archive.fo/mXJNf

MattWilsonCSS's post is the one you are talking about right?

The CDPR guy wasn't doxxed. My Lord some of you need to get a grip on reality.

The attempt to look up a person's information for purposes of forcing a 'proper' apology out of CDPR still occurred. A few users over there even called him out for 'witch hunting'. It's less so the outcome and more so the intent. What that person posted and how that thread transpired demonstrates how the habits of those who found CDPR's joke funny and those who were offended by CDPR's joke are night-and-day.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Reading this thread has been really depressing. Gamers are quickly becoming a profoundly intolerant demographic that are always on the offensive for perceived attacks on their hobby. It's okay for games to strive for more inclusive practices. It's okay for society to critique the intentions of artists and the effects of their art. Some people actually like that the medium is growing up.

Also, it's getting to a point where using the term SJW in a derogatory way is a dog whistle for having homophobic, mysongonistic, and (sometimes) racist opinions.

EDIT: The comments on the article's page are just plain awful. There's a lot of hate there.

Reading your post has been really depressing. People like you are quickly becoming a profoundly intolerant demographic that are always on the offensive for perceived attacks on their hobby (that they don't actually partake in). It's okay for developers to make light-hearted jokes based on harmless memes. It is okay for society to critique the intentions of whiny children and the effects of their witch hunts. Some people actually like that the medium is growing up.

Also, it's getting to the point where using the terms "homophobic, misogynistic, and racist" in a handwaving way is a dog whistle to avoid having any actual discussion and silencing people with opinions that you simply can't handle.

 

[mckmas8808]

Plenty if you live in a modern civilized world governed by laws. I think Nazi's are trash, but it's not fucking ok to just assault people in the streets because they have a deplorable ideology. Do you have any idea the kind of chaos that would ensue in a society where assault is hand-waved bc you don't like what a person has to say? It would be bloody madness. Shit would only continue to escalate.

Unless someone has attacked you and you are defending yourself, there's no justification for assault, I don't fucking care what the person has said. We're adults, not a bunch of teenagers in the school yard beefing over who has the best fucking shoes.

As far as gaming goes tho, I love killing Nazis, lol. I just don't like when BJ Blazkowicz is yelling the word white at people like it's an insult.

Punching Nazis was only being talked about with the video game characters. Not real people.

I understand, but my point is that you can't compare these, because the concerns today are legit when you have such things like AC Odyssey including a woman spartan warrior just for diversity's sake. I'm not against playing as a woman, I played and enjoyed games where the main character was a woman but in those cases it was natural, here it seems wrong. And I would still feel the same if for example people forced the developers to play as a male version of Lara Croft in the next TR.

Yeah but AC Odyssey is a RPG that's not trying to be authentic. So women spartan warriors are fine. And it's an option. They aren't forcing you to play as a woman.

Reading this thread has been really depressing. Gamers are quickly becoming a profoundly intolerant demographic that are always on the offensive for perceived attacks on their hobby. It's okay for games to strive for more inclusive practices. It's okay for society to critique the intentions of artists and the effects of their art. Some people actually like that the medium is growing up.

Also, it's getting to a point where using the term SJW in a derogatory way is a dog whistle for having homophobic, mysongonistic, and (sometimes) racist opinions.

EDIT: The comments on the article's page are just plain awful. There's a lot of hate there.

I agree with you rabbity-thing . I also hate how there's so many people on the offensive for anything that feels like an attack on their main hobby. I also hate how those same people get upset at some of the people that are critical of the hobby, but act like they are always cool under pressure and never upset, yet it's everybody else that's getting upset at the smallest things.

And sometimes the use of SJW is a dog whistle and it's obvious.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Edit: Sorry, I didn't see the mod post. That's what I get for responding to a post mid topic lol

 

[Clear]

Also, it's getting to the point where using the terms "homophobic, misogynistic, and racist" in a handwaving way is a dog whistle to avoid having any actual discussion and silencing people with opinions that you simply can't handle.

I think its been that way for some time now. What's more worrying is the complete absence of any statement of self-awareness on the part of the "progressive" contingent. They seem petrified of admitting any fault in their judgements or the presence excessively reactionary voices within their ranks, lest the encroaching hordes of the right crush them. Their lack of self-policing (except in egregious cases "after the fact") leads me to the conclusion that all they consider is their nebulous end-goal and not the means by which they are attaining it.

Its dangerous zealotry, doomed to failure due to the inevitability of increasing radicalization reducing the relevance and appeal of their ideas to the majority.

 

[Thiagosc777]

they consider is their nebulous end-goal and not the means by which they are attaining it.

This is socialism 101. Everywhere socialism gained root they adopt this "revolutionary mindset", where a future utopia justifies any crimes they might commit today. In their minds they are fighting for the "greater good", and it doesn't matter they have to do.

 

[NickFire]

I think its been that way for some time now. What's more worrying is the complete absence of any statement of self-awareness on the part of the "progressive" contingent. They seem petrified of admitting any fault in their judgements or the presence excessively reactionary voices within their ranks, lest the encroaching hordes of the right crush them. Their lack of self-policing (except in egregious cases "after the fact") leads me to the conclusion that all they consider is their nebulous end-goal and not the means by which they are attaining it.

Its dangerous zealotry, doomed to failure due to the inevitability of increasing radicalization reducing the relevance and appeal of their ideas to the majority.

Petrified of admitting fault, or just the by product of a generation that was always told they were right and everyone else was wrong?

 

[Xenon]

I am going to have to disagree. I see no issue with this apology. I'll give my reason but to want to preface it with something first.

Let me start out by saying that Austin Walkers tweet was nothing short of a self serving hyperbolic sensationalized hot take. He took what was essentially a response sent to a single and increased its audience exponentially. That is his job at Waypoint, providing secondhand "interactions" to decry for an audience hungry for things to be angry about.


First I want to to address the idea that this apology is some sort of victory for Austin's side. It isn't. Their goal is a strong reaction, not just from CD Projekt Red but from the community. They need this reaction to work off of to keep the story relevant. They want people to attack them or in the worst case attack the people they want to protect. The latter is a horrible move by people who are confused where the vitriol is coming from. Because like it or not the reason these people have such a foothold in the industry is a justifiable problem with harrasment online. Again I am not saying this case is harassment but it does exist. Willfully ignoring that fact makes arguments disingenuous. Not everyone who would be affected by this comment is engaged in the culture war in gaming. There is nothing wrong with sending out an apology to people who actually would be receptive to one.


As far as policing humor goes, I am a bit confused with the comparisons to Carlin. The person who wrote this is not a comedian and a companies public twitter account is not a stage. This account draws followers from anyone who is interested in the game. Thats a pretty wide net and a diverse group of people. Humor should be light and devoid of stuff like the comment that was tweeted. It's considered unprofessional, but in the end it's up for the company to decide.

Finally, people need to decide what they want. You can't ask for game makers to avoid politics and be for political jokes from corporate twitter accounts.

Sometimes a thing is just a thing. In this case it's an apology. People need to just walk away and quit giving this fire oxygen.

 

[Thiagosc777]

Sometimes a thing is just a thing. In this case it's an apology. People need to just walk away and quit giving this fire oxygen.

That's missing the forest for the trees. That's a trend of "bending the knee". It usually follows with bionic women in a WW2 game or diversity hires who have no talent creating comics, among recent examples. Or removing the butt from Tracer in Overwatch or apologizing for Mai not being as fat as some activists fantasized, etc.

It's games being dumbed down and censored to satistfy a tiny fraction of people who don't even play games.

Second, the only way to make a bully go away is by standing up to him. This is just showing that CDPR won't stand up for themselves and filling the bully with confidence.

You can't ask for game makers to avoid politics and be for political jokes from corporate twitter accounts.

You have to be a special kind of person to see politics in that joke.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The attempt to look up a person's information for purposes of forcing a 'proper' apology out of CDPR still occurred. A few users over there even called him out for 'witch hunting'. It's less so the outcome and more so the intent. What that person posted and how that thread transpired demonstrates how the habits of those who found CDPR's joke funny and those who were offended by CDPR's joke are night-and-day.

Yes the guy who dug up info on the dev is a scumbag, you'll get no argument from me.

But the dev didn't get doxxed.

 

[Pot Meet Kettle]

Reading this thread has been really depressing. Gamers are quickly becoming a profoundly intolerant demographic that are always on the offensive for perceived attacks on their hobby. It's okay for games to strive for more inclusive practices. It's okay for society to critique the intentions of artists and the effects of their art. Some people actually like that the medium is growing up.

Also, it's getting to a point where using the term SJW in a derogatory way is a dog whistle for having homophobic, mysongonistic, and (sometimes) racist opinions.

If I may...

The "attacks" are not just "perceived" anymore when developers are getting fired over tweets, political affiliations (in the case of Lucky Palmer) and short of that on the wrong end of a throughout character assassination campaign, and if the studio doesn't comply with demands to fire developers or "listen" to the "critics" and censor the game, or cancel it (in the case of Deponia, Jet Suit Larry, and Dead or Alive Extreme 3), then that studio and its games get distorted negative coverage (Polygon outright admits Bayonetta 2 has 2 points docked off a 10 score just because of political opinions about whether that game should exist, Kingdom Come Deliverance has been called a buggy unplayable mess, a racist concept, and its existence disgusting enough to be denied all kind of coverage... which is called blacklisting, and isn't usually supposed to be a good thing when it comes to press)

The results are obvious enough. A lot of game genres stopped existing, or at the very least are never getting exported again. Those games have their audience. They have a hatedom that deemed they could not just ignore them, but they should be purged from existence. That could be called intolerance. It's understandable enough the original audience isn't thrilled and content to listen in silence when logical fallacies are used to justify this wicked train of thought (a restaurent which removes meals from the menu just because someone doesn't prefer them will soon be out of meals to provide. Even water has a tiny minority of people allergic to it.)

Which brings me to your first sentence. "Reading this thread has been really depressing." How so?
This healthy exchange of opinions is refreshing if all sides can speak their mind about what they like and what they don't. Reading a topic where everyone agrees with you must be boring, and oblivious to the real world where tastes can't really be enforced.

"Growing up"? That would be pretty boring for an escapism entertainment medium to be shackled down back to fixed expectations and taboos.
What expectations are these? Who treats the word "adult" as an approval term?
Why are the suggestions to make it "grow up" involve more censorship to protect weaker minds from a mental bomb, almost as if... it's a rebranded "think of the children!"
Why does "growing up" the medium involve changing the existing pool rather than making exclusive brand new games centered about that mission statement, and why can't all of it coexist like adult people who think differently can coexist in a same environment?


"Critique the intentions of artists"? My favorite part.
This sounds like the theory of the Death Of The Author.
The initial reading of the work, assuming good will, in context, even following author notes and clarifications to clarify the conveyed message as much as possible... To hell with it.
The work needs to be read assuming malice, prejudice (we're reading it that way to fight prejudice, uh-huh), problematic tones, and microaggressions, through the lense of politics. That reading is the correct reading, especially when done by an "expert" on social studies.
THEN, the author needs to be held responsible, and questioned, for the problematic intentions the secondary reading uncovered.
Eiji Aonuma must have been hella confused when they asked him to explain himself about the Zelda triforce comments.

This sounds so fascinating to me. A lot of sects and schisms splintering off bigger religions started with a similar idea of secondary meanings exclusively holding the truth that only trained eyes that happen to hold a respected venerated social status, or people following their teachings and methods, can read.

Are you applying that theory here, when you think the concept of "dogwhistling" means that the mere use of a pejorative already is proof of "guilt"?

Putting "guilt" charitably, because going from this thread if some artistic choices to draw imaginary women are "sexist" or "mysoginy", which implies an intense hatred and contempt of women everywhere, then the jury is still out whether you're the best placed person to post such big career-ending accusations about people who barely proved anything beyond them mocking the current day version of bible thumping offended soccer moms out to ban D&D and satanist JRPGs.

 

[Scopa]

If I may...

The "attacks" are not just "perceived" anymore when developers are getting fired over tweets, political affiliations (in the case of Lucky Palmer) and short of that on the wrong end of a throughout character assassination campaign, and if the studio doesn't comply with demands to fire developers or "listen" to the "critics" and censor the game, or cancel it (in the case of Deponia, Jet Suit Larry, and Dead or Alive Extreme 3), then that studio and its games get distorted negative coverage (Polygon outright admits Bayonetta 2 has 2 points docked off a 10 score just because of political opinions about whether that game should exist, Kingdom Come Deliverance has been called a buggy unplayable mess, a racist concept, and its existence disgusting enough to be denied all kind of coverage... which is called blacklisting, and isn't usually supposed to be a good thing when it comes to press)

The results are obvious enough. A lot of game genres stopped existing, or at the very least are never getting exported again. Those games have their audience. They have a hatedom that deemed they could not just ignore them, but they should be purged from existence. That could be called intolerance. It's understandable enough the original audience isn't thrilled and content to listen in silence when logical fallacies are used to justify this wicked train of thought (a restaurent which removes meals from the menu just because someone doesn't prefer them will soon be out of meals to provide. Even water has a tiny minority of people allergic to it.)

Which brings me to your first sentence. "Reading this thread has been really depressing." How so?
This healthy exchange of opinions is refreshing if all sides can speak their mind about what they like and what they don't. Reading a topic where everyone agrees with you must be boring, and oblivious to the real world where tastes can't really be enforced.

"Growing up"? That would be pretty boring for an escapism entertainment medium to be shackled down back to fixed expectations and taboos.
What expectations are these? Who treats the word "adult" as an approval term?
Why are the suggestions to make it "grow up" involve more censorship to protect weaker minds from a mental bomb, almost as if... it's a rebranded "think of the children!"
Why does "growing up" the medium involve changing the existing pool rather than making exclusive brand new games centered about that mission statement, and why can't all of it coexist like adult people who think differently can coexist in a same environment?


"Critique the intentions of artists"? My favorite part.
This sounds like the theory of the Death Of The Author.
The initial reading of the work, assuming good will, in context, even following author notes and clarifications to clarify the conveyed message as much as possible... To hell with it.
The work needs to be read assuming malice, prejudice (we're reading it that way to fight prejudice, uh-huh), problematic tones, and microaggressions, through the lense of politics. That reading is the correct reading, especially when done by an "expert" on social studies.
THEN, the author needs to be held responsible, and questioned, for the problematic intentions the secondary reading uncovered.
Eiji Aonuma must have been hella confused when they asked him to explain himself about the Zelda triforce comments.

This sounds so fascinating to me. A lot of sects and schisms splintering off bigger religions started with a similar idea of secondary meanings exclusively holding the truth that only trained eyes that happen to hold a respected venerated social status, or people following their teachings and methods, can read.

Are you applying that theory here, when you think the concept of "dogwhistling" means that the mere use of a pejorative already is proof of "guilt"?

Putting "guilt" charitably, because going from this thread if some artistic choices to draw imaginary women are "sexist" or "mysoginy", which implies an intense hatred and contempt of women everywhere, then the jury is still out whether you're the best placed person to post such big career-ending accusations about people who barely proved anything beyond them mocking the current day version of bible thumping offended soccer moms out to ban D&D and satanist JRPGs.

 

[Xenon]

You have to be a special kind of person to see politics in that joke.

Nah, I'm pretty sure your average 5-6th grader could conclude that a joke about gender politics is political.

 

[Thiagosc777]

Nah, I'm pretty sure your average 5-6th grader could conclude that a joke about gender politics is political.

A political statement is something concerning politicies or governments, i.e., how humans should govern themselves in societies. Making fun of oversensitive people is just humor.