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[LotusHD]

It also has one of the worst executed plot twists ever since they stick text in the wrong note revealing that Yorha units have a planned obsolescence early.

You know, I managed to miss that somehow, but I think I heard it got patched.

 

[Basileus777]

It also has one of the worst executed plot twists ever since they stick text in the wrong note revealing that Yorha units have a planned obsolescence early.

That was the natural conclusion to things revealed earlier in the game anyway. Other than some awkward dialogue because of the continuity issue, having that stated explicitly earlier didn't really matter.

I don't agree because I don't think Nier Automata has plot twists. I don't think any of the revelations are intended to be shocking or surprising, especially not by the time the context is revealed. They're not twists because the way I experienced them, they were things I expected or suspected all along based on the overwhelming evidence presented in the world and the side quests, but it was depressing to think about. The revelations just make most players face the reality they suspect but deny all along, because it is easier. I think that is the intention of the game. To reflect that there are inconvenient truths in the world all the time, and it is easy to pretend things are okay and that if no one else is doing anything about it, we don't have to either. Until we no longer have a choice. It's selling it short to say that Nier has plot twists.

I agree with this. Nier A does the whole "surprising yet inevitable" thing well, even when the surprising part isn't actually that surprising.

 

[Swordy]

I don't agree because I don't think Nier Automata has plot twists. I don't think any of the revelations are intended to be shocking or surprising, especially not by the time the context is revealed. They're not twists because the way I experienced them, they were things I expected or suspected all along based on the overwhelming evidence presented in the world and the side quests, but it was depressing to think about. The revelations just make most players face the reality they suspect but deny all along, because it is easier. I think that is the intention of the game. To reflect that there are inconvenient truths in the world all the time, and it is easy to pretend things are okay and that if no one else is doing anything about it, we don't have to either. Until we no longer have a choice. It's selling it short to say that Nier has plot twists.

This is pretty much my opinion too. I don't think the "twists" were intended as such. They are rather just confirmation of what we were suspecting all along as you said. That's what makes the story brilliant for me, Yoko is not trying to shock us but to make us think about the events from different perspectives.

 

[Yohane]

I don't think those were really "twists"

 

[Moaradin]

It also has one of the worst executed plot twists ever since they stick text in the wrong note revealing that Yorha units have a planned obsolescence early.

Yup, that was such a huge localization error lol. Luckily it got patched.

 

[Kiru]

Yup, that was such a huge localization error lol. Luckily it got patched.

Maybe on PS4. Still had the error on PC last week.

 

[ajim]

Man, the Pascal stuff really ate me up inside. I cared for pascal a lot more than I thought I would have initially.

It was heart breaking watching it all fall apart and having to make that decision in the end.

 

[Kiru]

Man, the Pascal stuff really ate me up inside. I cared for pascal a lot more than I thought I would have initially.

It was heart breaking watching it all fall apart and having to make that decision in the end.

There's some extra sadness to experience when you visit the village afterwards.

 

[ajim]

There's some extra sadness to experience when you visit the village afterwards.

Yeah. I felt so bad buying his children's parts from him. Man...

 

[matrix-cat]

... by the time you get to the Route C reveal, you can look back and see all the little hints and such for yourself, rather than it being spelled out for you.

I don't really share your critiques at all, sorry.

One thing that's very clear with how this game has been received is that one man's con is another man's pro, and for every aspect I feel was poorly executed there's someone who thinks it was utterly superb (often for the exact same reasons I didn't ). Which is a long-winded way of saying that I don't really agree with anything you guys said and I still don't think the 2E plot development was well done, but, hey. I know there are subtle hints and similar themes here and there, spread out across like forty hours of game, but all I can say is that I guess I needed more than that for the reveal to be emotionally resonant.

 

[JThird]

The real twist here is how terrible and shallow combat in this game as well as bosses. I honestly expected more from Platinum Games. And they just took Transformers build and redesigned some menus.

Amusement park was amazing. From the beginning to the end. Everything else is a meh.

 

[Ruff]

Actually, why did the village robots become zombies?

I'm assuming the resource tower did this to make them tear themselves apart (since they can't actually eat each other lmao) we see machine parts being collected in those towers and in the main tower after.

The real twist here is how terrible and shallow combat in this game as well as bosses. I honestly expected more from Platinum Games. And they just took Transformers build and redesigned some menus.

Amusement park was amazing. From the beginning to the end. Everything else is a meh.

As much I love the game I do agree about the bosses. You can tell they really put a lot of polish and effort into the Simone fight since it was their E3 showcase, the rest of the bosses feel a little lazy and one-note especially coming up to Route C.

 

[Kazuhira]

Turning the sidekick into the main character is what really got me,for being just a recon,hacking whatever model 9S is a fucking badass.
Although killing everyone felt a little forced imo,i think killing only 2B would've been better and she is my favourite character in the game.

 

[tuxfool]

One thing that's very clear with how this game has been received is that one man's con is another man's pro, and for every aspect I feel was poorly executed there's someone who thinks it was utterly superb (often for the exact same reasons I didn't ). Which is a long-winded way of saying that I don't really agree with anything you guys said and I still don't think the 2E plot development was well done, but, hey. I know there are subtle hints and similar themes here and there, spread out across like forty hours of game, but all I can say is that I guess I needed more than that for the reveal to be emotionally resonant.

Any more than that and it would be practically shouting it from the rooftops.

 

[Replicant]

I feel that as humans the meaning of our existence, the purpose of our being here is to love and be loved by those we surround ourselves with.

Because life is short, the only real joy in life is knowing we matter to someone we hold dear at one point in our pitiful life.

This is something that the androids and robots couldn't help but imitate in the game despite their initial resistance to the idea. In the end, what matters to them were memories of their loved one.

Not surprising at all since after all, they were created based on our image and personality.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I knew from the very beginning that humankind was dead.
It was incredibly obvious....
"Oh, we fight for those humans that live on the moon but we never show any of them and they only communicate in pre-recorded messages!". I'm pretty sure even the game comments on this, I don't think it was supposed to be a plot twist.

I was actually surprised when they revealed that, yes, humans are indeed all dead. Since everybody was praising the game for it's story I was expecting a twist there tbh.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Because stories aren't about just the twists, they are about what they choose to explore with it?

Like I'd say most players probably figured out humans aren't going to factor in pretty early on, it's more like why. Why do the androids still think they are a factor?

For me when i found out i thought "huh, alright, that's kinda fucking twisted but i guess i can see why they went that way"

And then the game keeps taking, taking and taking until you question the worth of such a grand delusion.

 

[matrix-cat]

Any more than that and it would be practically shouting it from the rooftops.

I think there's a little bit of wiggle room between "shouting it from the rooftops" and "there are five lines that could be interpreted as oblique hints spread across various sidequests and lore items over forty hours of gameplay". If that kind of approach works for you then I'm glad, but personally I just don't have the mental faculties to file away every line I hear and keep them with me through the whole game. I forget stuff. And, like I said, I would probably have been interested in starting the whole game over again to seek out those hints, but I'd already played the events of Route A twice as part of the first playthrough and I wasn't really interested in doing it a third and fourth time so soon.

 

[Basileus777]

The 2E twist initially fell flat for me as well. In the moment it elicited a "oh, ok" response, it's not something immediately mind-blowing even if you did all the side quests. You need to either replay the game or read testimonials of previous events/sidequests to provide the context needed to make it significant.


But Nier A isn't really a game dependent on twists. You could read a plot summary before playing the game and still probably get most of the experience.

 

[w0s]

Game would have been great had I not gotten lost 3/4 of the way through the first run. Still not sure how to get to that damn arrow that is near the end of the map. Shame. Was having fun then wham.

 

[Antiwhippy]

The 2E twist initially fell flat for me as well. In the moment it elicited a "oh, ok" response, it's not something immediately mind-blowing even if you did all the side quests. You need to either replay the game or read testimonials of previous events/sidequests to provide the context needed to make it significant.


But Nier A isn't really a game dependent on twists. You could read a plot summary before playing the game and probably get most of the experience.

Eh, I'd say no, not really. Taro games gain a lot through the empathy or apathy you gain while playing through it. Ending E makes no sense in summary form.

 

[Basileus777]

Eh, I'd say no, not really. Taro games gain a lot through the empathy or apathy you gain while playing through it. Ending E makes no sense in summary form.

That's not what I said though. I was talking about how spoilers wouldn't ruin the experience of actually playing the game.

 

[Ferr986]

Not surprising at all since after all, they were created based on our image and personality.

Not really. Androids were done for the sole purpose of combat and control of Replicants, and they were done with the idea that they shouldn't have emotions (said by Devola herself in Nier 1). It just happens that they "learned" having feelings and emotions by watching the humans.

Same as how the alien robots learned the same studying the human legacy.

 

[Antiwhippy]

That's not what I said though. I was talking about how spoilers wouldn't ruin the experience of actually playing the game.

Ah alright. Totally misread what you posted.

Fwiw I'd be lying if i said that i was immediately impacted by the 2e stuff when it was first revealed, mostly because the game hit you with so much stuff in a short sequence, but it was something that really grew on me the more I stewed on it. Not only because I'm a sucker for tragic romances, but because of how will that relationship is tied to the overall theme of the game.

 

[Replicant]

Not really. Androids were done for the sole purpose of combat and control of Replicants, and they were done with the idea that they shouldn't have emotions (said by Devola herself in Nier 1). It just happens that they "learned" having feelings and emotions by watching the humans.

Same as how the alien robots learned the same studying the human legacy.

I disagree. Yes that was the original purpose. But obviously being designed to resemble like humans somehow influenced their thought patterns in some ways. It's true that some are more curious than others but given situations where they experience bonds with another being (9S, Pascal), they ended up mimicking humans in that they feel attached to those they care about and became miserable to the point of insanity when they lost their important person. This is shown repeatedly with Eve, 2B, 9S, and even Pascal and A2.

Devola and Popola were designed to just observe the project but they too develop emotions for each other despite their instruction to not have any. Even the basic robots somehow developed attachment to their brethren. Many of them didn't even have the chance to watch humans since humans were already extinct by the time the story started. And yet slowly but surely many of them developed these attachment to other beings.

 

[remz]

The other wrinkle to the 2b 9s kill/fuck dynamic is a sidequest with jackass tells you that the androids are wired to get sexual pleasure from killing/violence ! So that might d of .Ames things unpleasant

 

[Antiwhippy]

I disagree. Yes that was the original purpose. But obviously being designed to resemble like humans somehow influenced their thought patterns in some ways. It's true that some are more curious than others but given situations where they experience bonds with another being (9S, Pascal), they ended up mimicking humans in that they feel attached to those they care about and became miserable to the point of insanity when they lost their important person. This is shown repeatedly with Eve, 2B, 9S, and even Pascal.

Devils and Popola were designed to just observe the project but they too develop emotions for each other despite their instruction to not have any. Even the basic robots somehow developed attachment to their brethren.

Evolving beyond their basic programming is a theme, and it's shown to happen through developing relationships. That's a big reason why pod 042 reveled even though he is programmed to just assist yorha and see through the completion of project yorha.

 

[hank_tree]

I haven't played OG Nier and I was never under the impression that humanity was still around. I thought it was very obvious from minute one.

So I wouldn't put that as some amazing twist. Didn't feel like a big reveal.

 

[Chairhome]

Extremely timely thread for me as I finished Ending E last night.
I loved it, and the OP contextualizes a bit more for me since I didn't finish all of the side quests. It was a Gamefly rental that I just returned so I'm sad I missed those side quests now.

Where does it clarify that 2b has been killing 9s over and over? I understand this is the case, but I must have glossed over it. When it was revealed she was an E unit I thought it just meant she was designed to kill yorha units, not 9s specifically.

Fantastic game though, and it will stick with me. Pascal in the village selling parts is so gut wrenching. Did anyone kill Pascal instead? What if you walk out on him? I figured he would kill himself if you do.

 

[Corpekata]

Thought it was clear that humanity was dead after all your interactions with them were generic automated broadcasts and emails.

The 2E one is pretty good, though in general I'd say the most impressive "twist" is on the metagame level where 2B is essentially not really the main character similar to MGS2. Which I found frustrating from a gameplay level (9S's limited moveset + the hacking minigame made me loathe playing him) but was pretty good from a story perspective.

I'm also not sure I'd really call most of them "twists" in the general sense they are used.

 

[Replicant]

Evolving beyond their basic programming is a theme, and it's down to happen through developing relationships. That's a big reason why pod 042 reveled even though he is programmed to just assist yorha and see through the completion of project yorha.

Yeah that's what I mean. The entire game is about sentient beings developing attachment for one another even outside human influence. The game even went meta and asked us, the players, if we feel attached to the characters to the point we'll do insane shit to see them alive again. The answer is yes, for me. Fuck that bullet hell though,

Attachment is what the whole game is about imo. In the end, many of those androids are fighting for the memories of and to avenge their lost ones, their fellow androids. Even if they disguised it under "for the glory of mankind". Or maybe that is true after all, since mankind's spirit lives on in them.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Extremely timely thread for me as I finished Ending E last night.
I loved it, and the OP contextualizes a bit more for me since I didn't finish all of the side quests. It was a Gamefly rental that I just returned so I'm sad I missed those side quests now.

Where does it clarify that 2b has been killing 9s over and over? I understand this is the case, but I must have glossed over it. When it was revealed she was an E unit I thought it just meant she was designed to kill yorha units, not 9s specifically.

A2 does spell it out at the end, but you see it throughout 9b's route c run. There's a resource tower where he confronted a virtual 2B absorbing his memories. 2B drop hints earlier too. Remember "it ahead ends like this" as she chokes out 9s at the end of A? Render how she clenched her fists when 9b revealed that he didn't back himself up when the self destructed to kill the Goliaths.

 

[Ravelle]

There are two side missions that did some heavy foreshadowing too.

One of them is about an android with memory loss which asks you to recover her memory from a helper droid to find out who killed her friend, after recovering her data you find out she's an executioner Android that recently killed one of her friends, unwilling to live with that erased her own memory banks.

Another one is about a couple in which a couple decides to reset both their memories at the same time because their relationship isn't working, so their plan is to reset in hope this time it will work, they count down for the reset but the lady bails out at the last second because she only wants him to be improved.

 

[thequickandthedead]

One day the servers are gonna shut down and people are gonna wonder wtf is up with the credits of this game

 

[Ferr986]

I disagree. Yes that was the original purpose. But obviously being designed to resemble like humans somehow influenced their thought patterns in some ways. It's true that some are more curious than others but given situations where they experience bonds with another being (9S, Pascal), they ended up mimicking humans in that they feel attached to those they care about and became miserable to the point of insanity when they lost their important person. This is shown repeatedly with Eve, 2B, 9S, and even Pascal and A2.

Devola and Popola were designed to just observe the project but they too develop emotions for each other despite their instruction to not have any. Even the basic robots somehow developed attachment to their brethren. Many of them didn't even have the chance to watch humans since humans were already extinct by the time the story started. And yet slowly but surely many of them developed these attachment to other beings.

I don't disagree with that.I just wanted to say they weren't created to have feelings, they developed them. Same as how Replicants were created to be mindless yet also ended up developing feelings and form societies.

At the end all android, not Devola and Popola, developed them so even new androids created after human extinction were created with that knowledge (YoHRa). It's their own kind of evolution like humans had.

 

[cackhyena]

This will be one of those games I just don't have the time for but am endlessly fascinated by.

 

[Antiwhippy]

If it's any comfort it's probably the shortest of the long games of 2017. 20-22 hours for a fairly direct playthrough. You'll miss a lot but you'll get the experience.

 

[Kazuhira]

This will be one of those games I just don't have the time for but am endlessly fascinated by.

The game isn't that long tbh,if you want a really quick run just play it in the easiest difficulty and use the auto-battle skills.

One day the servers are gonna shut down and people are gonna wonder wtf is up with the credits of this game

This is part of Yoko Taro's genius plan lol.

 

[Moz]

I played the whole game and I didn't really think any of the things OP mentioned were very interesting. Just your usual anime nonsense that got a shrug out of me. Spent the whole game wondering where these amazing moments were. Maybe read a few more books or something? I dunno.

 

[Kinyou]

What surprised me the most is how little you've actually seen of the game after ending A. Initially I expected the other endings to be merely variants.

 

[Moaradin]

What surprised me the most is how little you've actually seen of the game after ending A. Initially I expected the other endings to be merely variants.

The most surprising "twist" for me was seeing that preview after ending B lol. I expected to replay portions of the game again like the first Nier, but with A2s perspective or something. Totally didn't expect the sequel game as well.

 

[Arkeband]

I played the whole game and I didn't really think any of the things OP mentioned were very interesting. Just your usual anime nonsense that got a shrug out of me. Spent the whole game wondering where these amazing moments were. Maybe read a few more books or something? I dunno.

You'd have to elaborate on which animes you're referring to specifically, otherwise this just seems like a reductive driveby. AFAIK there are no anime about dissecting video games as a medium through posthumanism - and reading more books would only enhance the experience of the game as the game is chock full of literary and philosophical references.

 

[Kthulhu]

The real twist here is how terrible and shallow combat in this game as well as bosses. I honestly expected more from Platinum Games. And they just took Transformers build and redesigned some menus.

Amusement park was amazing. From the beginning to the end. Everything else is a meh.

You shouldn't have expected character action combat. It's an action RPG through and through.

 

[The Hermit]

To me what was effective was less the "humanity was extinct all along!!!" twist, and more realizing that it was only the beginning.
"at least you have Yorha" ..oh.
"at least 2b and 9s have each other" ...oh.
"at least pascal's village shows there's hope" ...oh ffs.

And then I'm like "why the hell am I even playing anymore?" ... Because there's still more game to play. And then Ending E hits me: "playing videogames is not meaningless, and you're not alone in this". The game was actually about me?
"Being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarassment"
I KNEW IT.

Then again, Ending E is so effective because I feel every person will give it a different meaning depending on how they feel when they experience it. It could just be a meta commentary about wanting to see a happy ending at all costs, or even about Yoko Taro being able to make the game thanks to the support of the fans...

I felt like this too, it felt like a chore after a while.

I understand it was the point of the game, but I think it kinda undermines it's point.

Ending E is great though, I never felt so relieved to delete and happy about deleting a save file.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

I'm still confused about who's idea the Yorha virus backdoor was

 

[jacobeid]

The recontextualisation of the 2b/9s relationship is one of the most effective and most devastating things a game has done to me in recent memory

Could not agree with this any more. This game fucked me up.

 

[Ruff]

I'm still confused about who's idea the Yorha virus backdoor was

Spoiler

Number 9 is that guy

 

[Ravelle]

One day the servers are gonna shut down and people are gonna wonder wtf is up with the credits of this game

My internet was out for that day I finished it, I came up to Square Enix and realized it became impossible. Wondered if this was some wacky joke and googled it, I had to activate my game's hotspot and connect my PS4 through that to finish the credit scene.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

With how much 9S shit happens that is recontextualized by the ending, I still feel even more strongly towards the recontextualization of 2B's actions.

Route A is filled with completely illogical sometimes baffling moments in 2B's characterization. Straight from the start with her "emotions are prohibited" bullshitting, to her accidental nines callout, to the amount of effort she goes through to save 9S from Adam. The entire route really becomes her attempts to emotionally distance herself, and failing miserably. I think the game's twists werent huge and shocking, but the overall effect of them was phenomenal.

I think the complete meaninglessness to the war was the biggest surprise twist, since it was both the machines and androids fighting for no reason other than feeling like they had to fight, one for their illusion of a god to fight for, the other for a sense of purpose.

Moving on to Ending E though...The pods were shown to be growing sentience throughout route C, but goddamn I did not realize where they were going with it. The pods showing up at the credits to grant hope after everything was such a brilliant twist on the ending.

I'm still confused about who's idea the Yorha virus backdoor was

whoever created YoRHa. The entire purpose of YoRHa was to perpetuate the human lie, and then perish so that the war never ended. They were sacrifices to the continuation of the war. Hence the machine core AI systems, as their creators didnt feel comfortable creating their sacrifices with actual android AI cores. Pricks.

 

[Z3M0G]

Nier is about what existence and life means but it starts out in a way that is confusing to many players that played the original. In the original game, you

Spoiler

accidentally cause the future extinction of the human race

.

I played endings A-E, and probably should have known this already... but HOLY FUCK I wish I didn't read that right now...

Edit: Eh... doesn't matter... I wasn't going to go back and play the original, but I was considering it...