To be honest, I knew this was going to happen. NiGHTS is a score-attack game that requires dedication, you can't see how glorious its design is unless you've become somewhat good at it.
But I guess that's too much work for the average reviewer.
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NiGHTS into Dreams HD |OT| Dreaming of snow, sparkles, and nightmares [Control patch]
- Thread starter ShadiWulf
- Start date
But I guess that's too much work for the average reviewer.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
it's somewhat of a cliche, but they really don't make games like this anymore. with the heavy reliance on sonic and apprehension over greenlighting any new concepts, sega 2012 is a truly sad state of affairs. but that back catalogue is definitely something to be proud of.
shenmue next? a man can dream.
shenmue next? a man can dream.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
At least SEGA's back catalogue is very diverse and many people never experienced them when they were new. So many of their games are somewhat new to a big portion of gamers today. Hopefully they'll be able to recover some of their funds through HD remasters to fund newer ventures that aren't Sonic related. At least I hope this is what will happen.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I remember when this game first came out. I was 10 and my dad and I were itching for a new Saturn game to play. NiGHTS came with that monster of a controller and we played it. It is a great example of a game that's easy to pick up, but difficult to master. My dad used to get all A on every single level.
This brings back some good memories.
This brings back some good memories.
Shadow Hog
Member
Considering the grading scale tops off at A, impressive.
Oh you knew what he meant, Mike Dawson.
But in all seriousness, I forgot how... stringent the ranking requirements can be for some levels.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Shadow Hog
Member
Stick Canyon 4 can DIAF, honestly. You have to do the tower ascent with very little margin for error, or else you will run out of time on the second rail ride and completely botch your grade.
The rest of Stick Canyon's fine, but forcing you from one rail ride to another with no chance to avoid it is just arrrgh
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Somewhere this "Sega sucks now" narrative took hold in the face of all evidence that they're actually one of the top 5 publishers of the generation, if not higher. Go look up Hell Yeah or The Cave if you don't think they're still greenlighting new concepts.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
I found it on the US xbox.com website. DOWNLOOOOAAAAADDDDDDINNNNNNNNG
Got a link? I don't see it
Thank you kind sir
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
This is a thing? Might have to pick it up.
I hated the Saturn analog pad so much that I used the standard pad even on NiGHTS. And I was pretty good at it.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
The analog control does seem slightly off but it could be just me adapting to the 360 controller style. I only played Paternal Horn so far but I must say that this port looks and plays pretty good.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
straight from the horses mouth, dude. and i wasn't talking about them as a publisher, but as a developer.
wickedcapedkid
Member
just bought this on the japanese psn. omg yes. I am so happy. The weekend is complete.
So I take it from this last page (fiddly controls in this version + harsh requirements) that getting the A rank achievement in this game will be a bitch and a half?
No need to dream, Shenmue and Skies of Arcadia were announced for XBLA/PSN earlier this year.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
Dead Man Typing
Member
No they weren't. What the Sega rep said was (paraphrased) "We already know what the fans want to see, it's Shenmue and Skies of Arcadia. And we might be making them." True this is the biggest tease of all time, but it is not an announcement
Why isn't this up yet!!!????
Joshua1979
Member
This game is magic, not for people who wants "fast food" games.
When you said slowly, you weren't kidding
When you said slowly, you weren't kidding
Mine only took about 5 minutes to complete. A little less actually.
The sites I read reported it as confirmed but I googled now and see that they basically did a "won't confirm but isn't denying either" type thing. That usually means yes but you never know; it might make too much sense for Sega to do. They've always had an aversion to things that make sense.
Because the interns are in charge of XBL releases this week, this wednesday's release was delayed by 24 hours... That better not be happening today!
TwiztidElf
Gold Member
Yup, looks like the work experience kids are running XBLA again.
What am I paying for again?
What am I paying for again?
PowderedToast
Junior Member
i know shenmue 1 runs funny in widescreen, they'd have to sort that out. but i think it'll happen. i mean NiGHTS? JSR? nobody would've expected these games a couple years ago.
Anyway, did they sort those analog stick control issues out? I'm picking this up tomorrow and want it to control right.
Dis gon be Jeff ranting for 30 minutes on why he hates NiGHTS is what it gon be.
HueyFreeman
Banned
Man, I'm loving this more and more.
To all those worried about the controls: yes, it does feel a little different. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems just a tad less responsive. But much more importantly, NO THIS WILL NOT RUIN THE EXPERIENCE FOR YOU. Nights is such a remarkable game, and replaying it all these years later and having it hold up this well is like discovering it all over again.
In short: do NOT let concerns about the controls stop you from playing this gem. Sega has done a fantastic visual job with the port. I agree the controls don't quite seem to be what they were, but in the scheme of things it's minor - you can absolutely still nail the levels, and get that same feel that's completely one of a kind in the entire medium.
To all those worried about the controls: yes, it does feel a little different. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems just a tad less responsive. But much more importantly, NO THIS WILL NOT RUIN THE EXPERIENCE FOR YOU. Nights is such a remarkable game, and replaying it all these years later and having it hold up this well is like discovering it all over again.
In short: do NOT let concerns about the controls stop you from playing this gem. Sega has done a fantastic visual job with the port. I agree the controls don't quite seem to be what they were, but in the scheme of things it's minor - you can absolutely still nail the levels, and get that same feel that's completely one of a kind in the entire medium.
HueyFreeman
Banned
U n i o n 0015
Member
Just DL'd and played it. The controls are beyond awful.
They're completely 8-way. I remember the Saturn game perfectly, because I just played it last week. No matter if you play with your analog stick or your digital pad, this is how the Saturn version felt if you played with the digital pad. With the Saturn analog pad, NiGHTS flew so delicately. Every trick and turn was fluid. You can no longer fluidly make a loop in the game!
It's my understanding that this is how the PS2 version was, but Sega has to dive in and patch this. I really can't recommend this to anyone, it looks great but the entire NiGHTS game was built on analog control and this version doesn't have it.
They're completely 8-way. I remember the Saturn game perfectly, because I just played it last week. No matter if you play with your analog stick or your digital pad, this is how the Saturn version felt if you played with the digital pad. With the Saturn analog pad, NiGHTS flew so delicately. Every trick and turn was fluid. You can no longer fluidly make a loop in the game!
It's my understanding that this is how the PS2 version was, but Sega has to dive in and patch this. I really can't recommend this to anyone, it looks great but the entire NiGHTS game was built on analog control and this version doesn't have it.
From my memory, the PS2 version didn't control like this at all.
The timing was a tiny bit off on certain parts, but I'd say it felt about 98% correct.
If I had to rate this new version on controls, I'd say it would match up only 60% at best.
The controls are serviceable at best.
The Saturn 3D controller wasn't the best 3D stick for most games as it was so loose, but then again, it was created especially for NiGHTS and NiGHTS alone. And it that regard, the combination of the 3D controller and the game was simply perfect.
The "adjusted" controls do a disservice to the game, as much as it hurts me to have to say this.
Everything else seems spot on, but the controls need to be patched for this game to get to the Saturn's original level of perfection.
The timing was a tiny bit off on certain parts, but I'd say it felt about 98% correct.
If I had to rate this new version on controls, I'd say it would match up only 60% at best.
The controls are serviceable at best.
The Saturn 3D controller wasn't the best 3D stick for most games as it was so loose, but then again, it was created especially for NiGHTS and NiGHTS alone. And it that regard, the combination of the 3D controller and the game was simply perfect.
The "adjusted" controls do a disservice to the game, as much as it hurts me to have to say this.
Everything else seems spot on, but the controls need to be patched for this game to get to the Saturn's original level of perfection.
On controls, it does feel like playing it with the d-pad. There's full speed, stop and nothing in between, no fluid arc when you change direction. Not nearly as smooth as the Saturn game.
The big Saturn 3D pad was different and had 4 analogue sensors instead of 2? Perhaps too fiddly to port, so it's left with digital plus a few extra directions. Will take getting used to. Do PC emulators get the controls right?
The big Saturn 3D pad was different and had 4 analogue sensors instead of 2? Perhaps too fiddly to port, so it's left with digital plus a few extra directions. Will take getting used to. Do PC emulators get the controls right?
MightyHedgehog
Member
Ugh. That sucks. I want to D/L the trial just to see for myself, but the whole damned point of Nights and its pad was to take advantage of the greatly-increased number of angles of movement afforded by the analog cup/stick. Are you pushing the stick to the outside of its throw and circling around the edge to move? Daytona, for instance, controlled terribly on the Dreamcast if you didn't force the stick out to the edges and roll around, like turning a wheel. Perhaps, it's my hope, that it works like that and doesn't really account for movement from the center of its dead zone.
U n i o n 0015
Member
I'm using the full range of the stick. The Saturn analog pad was the same in that regard.
The biggest place I notice the problem is when you go to create a loop--you can only create a hexagon, rather than a loop because your movement is in stages rather than 360 degree movement.
It's also a huge PITA to make small adjustments to Nights, like lining up to get a row of orbs.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Okay, well, scratch this game from my purchase plans. Terrible show, Sega. Way to completely miss the most fundamental elements of your own fucking games.
Would it even be technically possible to patch Nights HD with new controls?
SEGA had an opportunity to make this an immortal leaderboard challenge title with massive suport from the original fans for years to come.
Unfortunately, borking the core gameplay/control mechanic has ruined chances of the title's longevity.
SEGA had an opportunity to make this an immortal leaderboard challenge title with massive suport from the original fans for years to come.
Unfortunately, borking the core gameplay/control mechanic has ruined chances of the title's longevity.
sechsterangriff
Member
Some times you can just predict what certain members of the press are going to say about a game...
It's been a while since I've played the PS2 version, (I bought it, then went back to the Saturn version after playing it for a while, because of the changes) but I agree with you. I think I'd have noticed if the controls were like the HD version. I'll go hook up my PS2 this weekend and double check this.
The PS2 version's issues were that NiGHTS felt a little bit slower, and/or the time between links was a bit less forgiving, making the higher chains from the Saturn version much more difficult if not impossible. (for me) But to a new player, the PS2 version was fine.
If the HD version were nothing but the PS2 version in HD, that would be fine, but the controls are not nearly as smooth. That the controls are "broken" might sound hyperbolic, because the game is still completely playable. But NiGHTS is a game where the fluidity of control and looping is a critical component of that dreamy feeling of flying, and that part is broken in the HD version. The PS3 version, at least.
So did they actually bump the framerate to 60 fps?
I was pretty disappointed that the PS2 version was only 30 fps. The Saturn version used a strange technique in which the 2D background moved at 60 fps while the foreground ran at half that. This was not present in the PS2 version (in any mode).
I assume the game is locked at 30, though, and that's probably a timing issue like JSR. :\
I was pretty disappointed that the PS2 version was only 30 fps. The Saturn version used a strange technique in which the 2D background moved at 60 fps while the foreground ran at half that. This was not present in the PS2 version (in any mode).
I assume the game is locked at 30, though, and that's probably a timing issue like JSR. :\