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[Shadow Hog]

Well, to be fair, using a Saturn with a modern HDTV is going to produce very poor results and hurt the game more than any control issues with the HD version.

Strongly disagree there. At least on a decent plasma. On an LCD it can look quite nasty though.

I have a decent plasma and the Saturn looks terrible on it (which is why I only use it on a CRT display).

I dunno, I think it looks pretty decent on my (presumably bargain bin but I wouldn't know since it was a Christmas present) LCD HDTV when plugged-in via S-Video. Maybe some unsightly haloing/blurriness due to a crappy upscaler, but I can generally make out every pixel. Definitely not ungodly ugly. I do have a CRT as backup in case I ever get into that mood, though.

I'd test that with my plasma upstairs, but no S-Video input :I

 

[Vibri]

Having spent a few hours with the full game as a veteran Nights player, unfortunately the botched control IS a deal breaker.

Nights is about the joyful sensation of flight matched with totally silky precision control. The entire game and level design is carefully constructed to enable long links/chains for huge points. When you learn these loops (or make your own routes) the sensation of just making each long link is one of gaming's finest moments.

In this version, the analogue degrees of freedom have been removed so you simply can't course-correct as the original game/level design intended. It tips the gameplay from 'magical' to 'frustrating'.

How such a huge error at the core of a classic IP was missed by Sega unfortunately says a lot about the company these days.

For anyone familiar with original, this is about as bad as needlessly changing the jump physics in Mario 64.

 

[HueyFreeman]

Can always count on this community for a huge overreaction.

I'm also a "veteran" nights player, and still own my Saturn, Nights and the original controller. I've compared them and yes, the PSN version is definitely stiffer. But you CAN accommodate for it, and still hugely enjoy the game. So again, unless you're cool with hooking up your Saturn to get down on Nights on a regular basis, this is a great purchase at 10 bucks.

 

[meppi]

I have a decent plasma and the Saturn looks terrible on it (which is why I only use it on a CRT display).

While I do agree it looks a lot better though an XRGB, I'm perfectly fine playing it on a regular plasma with an RGB cable.
Played it on a Samsung 40" LCD years ago and that was enough to make me decide not to go that route.
Not only were the graphics a mess, it also created a lot of input lag.

For some reason my Mega Drive connected through RGB cable looks even better than the Mega Drive collection released on the PS3 a couple of years ago. Weird, I know, but that's how it is.

 

[Vibri]

Can always count on this community for a huge overreaction.

I'm also a "veteran" nights player, and still own my Saturn, Nights and the original controller. I've compared them and yes, the PSN version is definitely stiffer. But you CAN accommodate for it, and still hugely enjoy the game. So again, unless you're cool with hooking up your Saturn to get down on Nights on a regular basis, this is a great purchase at 10 bucks.

Can you pass the msg onto your bosses that we really, really want an analogue patch? Thx.

 

[HueyFreeman]

Can you pass the msg onto your bosses that we really, really want an analogue patch? Thx.

lol I don't work for Sega, man.. I'm not sure they can afford stealth advertising right now. But a really polite way to acknowledge my contribution to the thread - big ups.

But with proper analog control it would've been perfect. Or even if just this Saturn mode played like the Saturn game. I want those free, fluid controls I remember.

Agreed, no doubt, man.. the alteration to the mechanics is disappointing. I'm just reacting with the silly argument that it's game ruining.

 

[danwarb]

Can always count on this community for a huge overreaction.

I'm also a "veteran" nights player, and still own my Saturn, Nights and the original controller. I've compared them and yes, the PSN version is definitely stiffer. But you CAN accommodate for it, and still hugely enjoy the game. So again, unless you're cool with hooking up your Saturn to get down on Nights on a regular basis, this is a great purchase at 10 bucks.

But with proper analog control it would've been perfect. Or even if just this Saturn mode played like the Saturn game. I want those free, fluid controls I remember.

 

[meppi]

Agreed, no doubt, man.. the alteration to the mechanics is disappointing. I'm just reacting with the silly argument that it's game ruining.

I don't think it's silly at all.
I know the game inside out and it's clear as day that the controls are severely messed up compared to the original.
Everything else seems perfect so far, but if Naughty Dog can look into fixing a smaller issue with Uncharted 3 controls, then certainly Sega should be held accountable for messing the NiGHTS ones up in a big way.

 

[patrickthehedgehog]

I don't think it's silly at all.
I know the game inside out and it's clear as day that the controls are severely messed up compared to the original.
Everything else seems perfect so far, but if Naughty Dog can look into fixing a smaller issue with Uncharted 3 controls, then certainly Sega should be held accountable for messing the NiGHTS ones up in a big way.

I really hope Sega steps in and fixes this. I was really looking forward to enjoying this game again.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

10€ is not a full price :> But instead of supporting sega, just give 'em the boots.

I'll support what they get right. And $10 it's still how much they are willing to ask for it.

 

[Malajax]

Dis gon be Jeff ranting for 30 minutes on why he hates NiGHTS is what it gon be.

Yeah... Painful quick look to watch. Sounds like Jeff never gave it a chance.

It's a weird game, but I enjoy discovering its quirks. I imagine that most other people going in blind will have Jeff's response.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Agreed, no doubt, man.. the alteration to the mechanics is disappointing. I'm just reacting with the silly argument that it's game ruining.

For a game that is built around the controls more than any other element, it has a huge effect. If you're a new player, you'll just think the controls are janky. If you're a veteran, you'll notice that you can no longer collect orbs or chain links as well or at all.

It would be like adding 4 frames of lag to a Street Fighter game. Can you still play it? Yeah. But does it completely change the dynamic for the worse? Yes.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Been out of the loop for awhile and come back to hearing the analog controls are bad?!

As a vet of the Saturn game, I used to play it with the d-pad. You mean to tell me it's somehow worse with an Xbox 360 analog controller?

 

[Dachande]

Are there any Sega reps on this board? I can't think of any...

We can ask them on Twitter, but it always feels really impersonal...

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Been out of the loop for awhile and come back to hearing the analog controls are bad?!

As a vet of the Saturn game, I used to play it with the d-pad. You mean to tell me it's somehow worse with an Xbox 360 analog controller?

If you're familiar with playing it on a d-pad, it'll feel similar for you.

The problem is when you compare Saturn analog versus 360/PS3 analog. It doesn't feel analog at all.

 

[Ogni-XR21]

Agreed, no doubt, man.. the alteration to the mechanics is disappointing. I'm just reacting with the silly argument that it's game ruining.

It is game ruining for me. Not for you, fine, but for me.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Playing the XBLA version right now.

Yep, these controls aren't right. Like, the PS2 controls were weird and stiff but these are way, way worse. This is like you're trying to control a d-pad through an analog stick. I seriously think that's what is happening here; this is definitely NOT how this game controls on the Saturn 3D controller.

It's actually seriously throwing me off quite a lot.

 

[Eusis]

Well, unlike the PS2 game I'm hoping they can patch this into something that plays better, similar to what happened with Uncharted 3 fucking up its aiming controls.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Well, unlike the PS2 game I'm hoping they can patch this into something that plays better, similar to what happened with Uncharted 3 fucking up its aiming controls.

It's Sega. Do you really think they're going to give enough of a shit to do that? Sonic Team re-rendered all of the NiGHTS FMV in 2006 to fit the PS2 port, but they didn't re-render it again for it to be HD. It's just the same old PS2 FMV, even though they probably still have the source files "available" to re-render the video again.

Do you think they're really going to spend the money on a patch?

 

[Gagaman]

I almost feel like I'm the only one not noticing any difference with the controls. I had just as much fun with it was the original, got A and B ranks without even really thinking about it first time through. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Maybe I'm just not as fussy.

 

[Stephen Stills]

Am I going nuts or is this not on the the Xbox marketplace? At least not in the U.K.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

It's Sega. Do you really think they're going to give enough of a shit to do that? Sonic Team re-rendered all of the NiGHTS FMV in 2006 to fit the PS2 port, but they didn't re-render it again for it to be HD. It's just the same old PS2 FMV, even though they probably still have the source files "available" to re-render the video again.

Do you think they're really going to spend the money on a patch?

 

[Plinko]

Am I going nuts or is this not on the the Xbox marketplace? At least not in the U.K.

I just tried in the U.S. and it gave me an error code. Have to get it through Xbox.com.

 

[ShadiWulf]

Am I going nuts or is this not on the the Xbox marketplace? At least not in the U.K.

People are apparently having trouble getting it through the console from what I've been reading. It's available to buy through the XBOX live website though, and put it on your console download queue

 

[danwarb]

I almost feel like I'm the only one not noticing any difference with the controls. I had just as much fun with it was the original, got A and B ranks without even really thinking about it first time through. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Maybe I'm just not as fussy.

It's that it sticks to the horizontal now and won't budge unless you shift up or down 45 degrees. In the original, Nights would be waving up and down with the slightest movement. The game looks and feels less fluid, like it's being played with a DPad, because of this stickiness.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I like to think I am being realistic. Not only is it Sega, a company notorious for ignoring complaints from their consumer base, but it's also a company in dire financial straits that probably can't justify spending the money to issue a patch for an "insignificant" problem.

Which is to say the game works. It doesn't crash, it has very few graphical problems... and it can be completed from beginning to end. And it's not even a big enough problem that a majority of users are experiencing it - I don't doubt that people like Gagaman don't have any problems with this port, but I certainly notice it and it looks REALLY ugly and stupid in the face of what I know this game looks like and plays like on original hardware.

I'd like them to patch it. But they won't.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

So Nights fans...what are some good tunes from this game?

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

So Nights fans...what are some good tunes from this game?

The Mantle
Theme of Tragedic Revenge

The extended, orchestral version of the main theme from the OST's pretty good, too.

 

[Iceman]

Soft Museum (aka Suburban Museum) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHdPy0Sy-2g

The complete version (9 minutes!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkyzJMLOBdM&feature=relmfu
I haven't listened to all of this yet myself.

 

[Dachande]

Do you think they're really going to spend the money on a patch?

They have one free patch like all XBLA releases (and maybe PSN too, less sure). Only every subsequent patch will cost money.

 

[Empty]

take the snow train is my favourite

the theme to splash garden is pretty great too

 

[bwahhhhh]

It's Sega. Do you really think they're going to give enough of a shit to do that? Sonic Team re-rendered all of the NiGHTS FMV in 2006 to fit the PS2 port, but they didn't re-render it again for it to be HD. It's just the same old PS2 FMV, even though they probably still have the source files "available" to re-render the video again.

Do you think they're really going to spend the money on a patch?

did they actually re-render the FMV for the PS2 game, or did they just have an uncompressed SD video of the original FMV that was then re-encoded in higher quality for the PS2? (I genuinely don't know)

Anyway, the PS2 version was a 10th anniversary full on re-make of the Saturn original, a full retail product that was a "big deal". This is just an HD remix, a port of the PS2 version, so I don't expect them to put in the same effort.

Still, something as simple as the controls would hopefully not entail much work at all, as they're not something inherent from the PS2 version. They're something completely new, maybe even accidental.

... man, I'd hope it's accidental. I wouldn't hold out hope for a patch, but it's worth raising a fuss just in case.

 

[Shiloa]

They have one free patch like all XBLA releases (and maybe PSN too, less sure). Only every subsequent patch will cost money.

They gotta spend to develop the patch. The devs who ported the game would've finished this project a month ago or more.

 

[Iceman]

take the snow train is my favourite

the theme to splash garden is pretty great too

Splash Garden (aka The Amazing Water) is phenomenal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-55H5E_PiI

 

[LeMaximilian]

Is it possible to still use the Dpad? I had the saturn 3d controller with Nights back in the day, but never really liked the analog and used the dpad.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Nice to see they didn't fix the Soft Museum trick bounce bug from the PS2 version.

When inside the actual "museum" part of Soft Museum, bouncing off floors and ceilings starts a drum roll and if you hit L or R you do tricks. In the Saturn version, you get points for doing that, but in the PS2 version you didn't, for some reason. You don't in the XBLA version, either.

Edit: Weird, right after I posted that, it started giving me at least some points for it.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Is it possible to still use the Dpad? I had the saturn 3d controller with Nights back in the day, but never really liked the analog and used the dpad.

I'm actually using an old digital Saturn pad via converters. Plays the same as I remember it.

If you have a controller with a d-pad you like then you probably won't have issues.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I don't think it's silly at all.
I know the game inside out and it's clear as day that the controls are severely messed up compared to the original.
Everything else seems perfect so far, but if Naughty Dog can look into fixing a smaller issue with Uncharted 3 controls, then certainly Sega should be held accountable for messing the NiGHTS ones up in a big way.

This isn't really comparable. A game that is as popular as Uncharted series is AND was sold at 6x the price that nights is sort of changes a lot. One of the worst comparisons I've seen in a long time.

 

[Dachande]

They gotta spend to develop the patch. The devs who ported the game would've finished this project a month ago or more.

Yeah, but they likely still work for Sega (edit: unless it was farmed out? I didn't think it was?). Find one of the programmers who understands the relevant section of code, pull him off the project he's on temporarily and give him a week or so, I'm betting.

It ain't much in time or resources, and fact is it's still fairly broken.

 

[Eusis]

It's Sega. Do you really think they're going to give enough of a shit to do that? Sonic Team re-rendered all of the NiGHTS FMV in 2006 to fit the PS2 port, but they didn't re-render it again for it to be HD. It's just the same old PS2 FMV, even though they probably still have the source files "available" to re-render the video again.

Do you think they're really going to spend the money on a patch?

True, it's why it's a HOPE at best rather than an expectation. Still, that first XBL patch is free, and depending on what happened there it could well be one of the simpler fixes to implement.

This isn't really comparable. A game that is as popular as Uncharted series is AND was sold at 6x the price that nights is sort of changes a lot. One of the worst comparisons I've seen in a long time.

One of the worst? Seriously? They may be in entirely different leagues for production value and sales expectations, but the core problem is similar: controls are screwed up from what they were before. Though admittedly NiGHTS is generally playable and I think I can adjust to that (helps I don't remember the original so well that I can't relearn it), versus Uncharted 3 basically failing to meet the level of every other shooter worth a damn. Switched out of curiosity to see how that worked, switched back wondering how the fuck something like that could've ever happened in the first place.

 

[gryz]

god dammit, the controls really did seem fine to me before I had read all the comments here. now it's definitely noticeable. thanks for ruining the game for me gaf

 

[Coxy]

This isn't really comparable. A game that is as popular as Uncharted series is AND was sold at 6x the price that nights is sort of changes a lot. One of the worst comparisons I've seen in a long time.

FWIW I'd have gladly paid more to have it perfect

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

True, it's why it's a HOPE at best rather than an expectation. Still, that first XBL patch is free, and depending on what happened there it could well be one of the simpler fixes to implement.

One of the worst? Seriously? They may be in entirely different leagues for production value and sales expectations, but the core problem is similar: controls are screwed up from what they were before. Though admittedly NiGHTS is generally playable and I think I can adjust to that (helps I don't remember the original so well that I can't relearn it), versus Uncharted 3 basically failing to meet the level of every other shooter worth a damn. Switched out of curiosity to see how that worked, switched back wondering how the fuck something like that could've ever happened in the first place.

Yes, seriously. It's what drives everything, you can't say because Uncharted 3 of all games got patched that a $10 downloadable game by sega should be held to the same standard of smaller patches. You can't just shrug it off, they're in completely different leagues.

 

[Eusis]

Yes, seriously. It's what drives everything, you can't say because Uncharted 3 of all games got patched that a $10 downloadable game by sega should be held to the same standard of smaller patches. You can't just shrug it off, they're in completely different leagues.

Yet we're talking about a CONTROL patch, and whether a game's big or small that sort of thing happens all the time. Now ME3's ending, THAT'S the kind of thing we can only expect out of a huge game.

 

[danwarb]

god dammit, the controls really did seem fine to me before I had read all the comments here. now it's definitely noticeable. thanks for ruining the game for me gaf

Ahahah, sorry.

I still love this game even with wonky controls. All but "DREAMY !!!" and "Mystic Garage" achievements.





And Merry Christmas!

 

[GrayFoxPL]

I'm actually using an old digital Saturn pad via converters. Plays the same as I remember it.

If you have a controller with a d-pad you like then you probably won't have issues.

Nice. I try it with a dpad next time!

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Yet we're talking about a CONTROL patch, and whether a game's big or small that sort of thing happens all the time. Now ME3's ending, THAT'S the kind of thing we can only expect out of a huge game.

It's still something that costs them money. It's not reasonable to expect sega who's been struggling to spend money on this minor of a patch. I'm not sure what's so confusing about that.

 

[danwarb]

They'd just need to reduce the vertical dead zone around left and right.

 

[Eusis]

It's still something that costs them money. It's not reasonable to expect sega who's been struggling to spend money on this minor of a patch. I'm not sure what's so confusing about that.

It really depends on the severity of it, and they still have their free XBL patch. Dunno if Sony does the same there or what, they seem to be looser given Silent Hill got an extra patch on PS3 that will never appear on 360, but if it's a simple fix with no other bugs then I think it depends more on if Sega cares to bother more than whether it's fiscally responsible.

 

[Dark Schala]

Are there any Sega reps on this board? I can't think of any...

We can ask them on Twitter, but it always feels really impersonal...

RubyEclipse, but he doesn't post very often.