Support NeoGAF

[Diablos]

You're keeping in step
In the line
Got your chin held high and you feel just fine
Because you do
What you're told
But inside your heart it is black and it's hollow and it's cold

Just how deep do you believe?
Will you bite the hand that feeds?
Will you chew until it bleeds?
Can you get up off your knees?
Are you brave enough to see?
Do you want to change it?

What if this whole crusade's
A charade
And behind it all there's a price to be paid
For the blood
On which we dine
Justified in the name of the holy and the divine

Just how deep do you believe?
Will you bite the hand that feeds?
Will you chew until it bleeds?
Can you get up off your knees?
Are you brave enough to see?
Do you want to change it?

So naive
I keep holding on to what I want to believe
I can see
But I keep holding on and on and on and on

Will you bite the hand that feeds you?
Will you stay down on your knees?

Trent

 

[Sullichin]

My favorite band/artist by far. The Downward Spiral is my favorite album of all-time. With Teeth is really awesome too, but I like their whole discography

If you like NIN, you NEED to hear TDS and WT in 5.1 surround sound - buy their respective dualdiscs ASAP - absolutely amazing.

New to NIN? Buy their live album. It has all of their "greatest hits", pre With Teeth.

Speaking of NIN live, I saw them on May 15 and it was incredible.

 

[White Man]

He smolders with generic rage.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

wow, 3rd post and already someone's having a dig at trent reznor - aside from one song on the new album, i don't hear any 'rage' at all. i guess i'm listening to a different album than everyone else. might have been true in the past, but not now..

woops, submitted that a bit too fast

NIN are my favourite band, by far - TDS 5.1 opens that album up more than ever, so you can hear things that are buried in the cd mix and were impossible to hear without surround.

i booked my trip to the UK next month around the 2 brixton shows on the 13th and 14th - one balcony ticket and the other in standing... cant wait

 

[White Man]

wow, 3rd post and already someone's having a dig at trent reznor - aside from one song on the new album, i don't hear any 'rage' at all. i guess i'm listening to a different album than everyone else. might have been true in the past, but not now..

Well, here's the story: I thought the PA quote was "I smolder with generic angst," but it turns out it's "generic rage." I wasn't going to let the 5-word troll die that easily, so I just posted it anyway.

If you really want my opinion, and I'm sure you dont, I think Pretty Hate Machine was almost a genre-defining album. A pretty, rough-edged pop album with a twist of Jourgensen. Everything after was derivative shit, minus some bits from the Fragile, which was far too much of an exercise in textured mood music for public appreciation.

The new album sounds like something I'd hear on MTV circa whenever-the-fuck-Linkin-Park-was-big. In short; it sucks. To go into length. . .well, it's not worth me coming up with a lurid and turgid lengthy metaphor to describe it's badness. It's the worst sort of disappointment -- totally mediocre with no defining qualities, good or bad.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Diablos you always use to hate reznor? I remember you said he was awful or something? :lol

Anyways yea they Rock.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

PA quote?? what's that? i've heard that quote before but i can't remember where..

i'm not allergic to adverse opinions about a band i listen to

 

[demi]

PA quote?? what's that? i've heard that quote before but i can't remember where..

i'm not allergic to adverse opinions about a band i listen to

Penny Arcade, they made a jab against Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, because the Prince was all of a sudden this badass brooding guy.

 

[Diablos]

C'mon White Man, his studio talents are admirable. The guy is a genius. And I hear their live show is like an exact replica of their studio work.

I have a NIN 1994 Woodstock bootleg, it's pretty decent.

Kabuki: Opinions change. I used to think Sonic Youth sucked, now I recognize them as perhaps the most important indie band since the 1980's.

 

[White Man]

Penny Arcade, they made a jab against Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, because the Prince was all of a sudden this badass brooding guy.

You're usefullness is matched by how attractive you are, my dark familiar.

Edit: Since when does studio talent equal good music? Frankly, I need to be convinced he has studio talent. What exemplary studio work has he done, either for himself or for others? Cite an example. I hear the "studio genius" thing brought up all the time, but I don't hear it.

 

[Diablos]

You're usefullness is matched by how attractive you are, my dark familiar.

Edit: Since when does studio talent equal good music? Frankly, I need to be convinced he has studio talent. What exemplary studio work has he done, either for himself or for others? Cite an example. I hear the "studio genius" thing brought up all the time, but I don't hear it.

Studio AND live is what I'm talking about, and everyone that has seen NIN live says they get it right every time. And then you have bands like the Pumpkins... Billy Corgan is a studio genius. When it came to their live performance, it would depend on the day (I blame Darcy). They could perform one show that was average at best, and a week later sound godlike. Not saying that's a bad thing, every band is different - but you have to at least recognize NIN for being able to do what they do.

 

[White Man]

Studio AND live is what I'm talking about, and everyone that has seen NIN live says they get it right every time. And then you have bands like the Pumpkins... Billy Corgan is a studio genius. When it came to their live performance, it would depend on the day (I blame Darcy). They could perform one show that was average at best, and a week later sound godlike. Not saying that's a bad thing, every band is different - but you have to at least recognize NIN for being able to do what they do.

Enjoying a live NIN performance would be stringent on me enjoying their music in the first place. And how is Corgan a studio genius? Just because people record and mix their own shit doesn't make them geniuses!

How did Corgan (or Reznor) do ANYTHING in the studio that sounded outside of the norm for 90s rock bands?

 

[Diablos]

Enjoying a live NIN performance would be stringent on me enjoying their music in the first place. And how is Corgan a studio genius? Just because people record and mix their own shit doesn't make them geniuses!

Your indie sense is TINGLING!

 

[demi]

You're usefullness is matched by how attractive you are, my dark familiar.

Sometimes I hate you, sometimes I like you.

This is one of those times.

 

[White Man]

Your indie sense is TINGLING!

I listen to plenty of label stuff. Not much of it is from the past 15 years though.

This still doesn't give examples of Corgan or Reznor's GENIUSNESS

 

[Lambtron]

Your indie sense is TINGLING!

I don't think it's a "being indie" thing.

I pretty much agree with White Man about PHM though I do kinda enjoy TDS and Broken. The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste is better than everything Trent has done put together. Ministry has fallen off over the years as well, but their highs are way way way higher than NIN's, and there were more of them (Land of Rape & Honey, The Mind..., and Psalm 69 is an amazing string of records).

Go download Mind, Diablos.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Enjoying a live NIN performance would be stringent on me enjoying their music in the first place. And how is Corgan a studio genius? Just because people record and mix their own shit doesn't make them geniuses!

How did Corgan (or Reznor) do ANYTHING in the studio that sounded outside of the norm for 90s rock bands?

well - i may have limited musical experience - but 'the downward spiral' doesn't sound like anything else i heard in the 90s. he has forged his own sound (even if it is made up of influences from other artsists). and i know you're replying to diablos - but generally i don't judge a band's sound based on how close/far it is away from what others are doing. if it clicks with me and i enjoy it, i'll continue to listen to it.. as i'm sure you do

lambtron : i've also listened to a lot of ministry stuff over the last few years (especially 'mind..' as i was told that was their best) - and it just doesn't click. i can appreciate it for what it is, but it doesn't have the pull that NIN has - i can hear the influences, but the two artists aren't interchangeable for me.. i probably gravitate towards the poppier sound

slight edit

 

[Diablos]

Well, I'm sorry if I offended you! Nothing in the indie rock world has impressed me as much as the guitar work demonstrated in Siamese Dream. Ditto for any other alternative rock, or well, rock period. Nearly 12 years later, it sounds better than any other dreamy, distorted, melodic guitar driven alt. rock and indie albums. Seriously. Hell, you can't even get it remastered yet (unless you buy it on iTunes), and it still sounds more advanced than any album you could hear today. It's ahead of it's time. I'm really sorry if that offends you too. I recall you once saying you loved Gish, Siamese and Adore.

I'll let NIN fans speak for Reznor.

 

[enjoy bell woods]

Well, here's the story: I thought the PA quote was "I smolder with generic angst," but it turns out it's "generic rage." I wasn't going to let the 5-word troll die that easily, so I just posted it anyway.

If you really want my opinion, and I'm sure you dont, I think Pretty Hate Machine was almost a genre-defining album. A pretty, rough-edged pop album with a twist of Jourgensen. Everything after was derivative shit, minus some bits from the Fragile, which was far too much of an exercise in textured mood music for public appreciation.

The new album sounds like something I'd hear on MTV circa whenever-the-fuck-Linkin-Park-was-big. In short; it sucks. To go into length. . .well, it's not worth me coming up with a lurid and turgid lengthy metaphor to describe it's badness. It's the worst sort of disappointment -- totally mediocre with no defining qualities, good or bad.

That's definitely the best way to describe "The Hand That Feeds". Just sorta flat.

 

[enjoy bell woods]

Well, I'm sorry if I offended you! Nothing in the indie rock world has impressed me as much as the guitar work demonstrated in Siamese Dream. Nearly 12 years later, it sounds better than any other dreamy, distorted, melodic guitar driven alt. rock and indie albums. Seriously. Hell, you can't even get it remastered yet (unless you buy it on iTunes), and it still sounds more technically advanced than any album you could hear today. It's ahead of it's time. I'm really sorry if that offends you too. I recall you once saying you loved Gish, Siamese and Adore.

I'll let NIN fans speak for Reznor.

Mercury Rev did it better for about four or five albums, but whatever. I don't think it's fair for you to have to deal with this shit in every music thread you post.

 

[White Man]

I don't think it's a "being indie" thing.

I pretty much agree with White Man about PHM though I do kinda enjoy TDS and Broken. The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste is better than everything Trent has done put together. Ministry has fallen off over the years as well, but their highs are way way way higher than NIN's, and there were more of them (Land of Rape & Honey, The Mind..., and Psalm 69 is an amazing string of records).

Go download Mind, Diablos.

Ministry sucks more than NIN, mind you. A "twist of Jourgensen" is enough of that bitch for me. They went from making derivative Depeche Mode-style pussyshit in the 80s to playing up the fake industrial angle. Last I checked they were some sort of godawful sludge industrial metal outfit. Like a low-rate KMFDM (they also suck) or something.

 

[Megafoo Chavez]

whiteman, they(billy and trent) are geniuses because their musical talent is extraordinary. they defined a decade of music that inspired and changed people and other musicians. give credit where credit is due.

 

[White Man]

whiteman, they(billy and trent) are geniuses because their musical talent is extraordinary. they defined a decade of music that inspired and changed people and other musicians. give credit where credit is due.

But that decade sucked.

 

[Megafoo Chavez]

so do atomic bombs, but hey...genius

 

[Ollie Pooch]

But that decade sucked.

for you, clearly

 

[Diablos]

Preach on megafoo.

Aw gee bell woods, you're so kind. I never said people couldn't have different opinions, just don't go into "attack Diablos mode" - There is something called intelligent discussion.

But yeah, Siamese Dream is the most amazing guitar-driven album I will ever hear.

But that decade sucked.

Oh? And the mainstream alternative rock bands right now are actually better? No.
What did you enjoy more - hearing Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Pumpkins, Stone Temple Pilots, etc. dominate the airwaves (and market) from 90-95, or the shit we have today?

 

[White Man]

so do atomic bombs, but hey...genius

World War 3 will be fought with Billy Corgan albums. World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.

 

[enjoy bell woods]

Preach on megafoo.

Aw gee bell woods, you're so kind. I never said people couldn't have different opinions, just don't go into "attack Diablos mode" - There is something called intelligent discussion.

But yeah, Siamese Dream is the most amazing guitar-driven album I will ever hear.



Oh? And the mainstream alternative rock bands right now are actually better? No.

Radiohead is pretty good and still alive.

 

[Diablos]

You act like Radiohead is some huge mainstream act. They aren't.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

well this thread disintegrated pretty quickly!

and once again, SOMEHOW, someone managed to bring fucking mercury rev into the discussion. i enjoy them, but they're hardly comparable in style/sound to the pumpkins, or NIN for that matter.

 

[enjoy bell woods]

Come on. Not this again.

Radiohead is very popular.

Check any site that checks MP3 downloads/song plays/etc. Radiohead will always be pretty damn close to #1.

Not to mention that their albums go platinum.

 

[demi]

well this thread disintegrated pretty quickly!

Another Diablos trap. HA HA HA

 

[Porridge]

Isn't this an NIN appreciation thread?

Haha, stop trolling and go start a Shaggs thread White Man.

As for Reznor, I really dig "Dead Souls". might be my favorite nin track

 

[White Man]

well this thread disintegrated pretty quickly!

I try my best. If topics like this become acceptable, what next? Man on dog sex, Steve Miller appreciation threads. . .worse? This plague-like wave of questionable taste needs a musical ubermensch like myself. Now, everyone in this thread that has awful taste, get against the f'n wall.

Haha, stop trolling and go start a Shaggs thread White Man.

THEY WERE STUDIO GENIUSES!

 

[enjoy bell woods]

I try my best. If topics like this become acceptable, what next? Man on dog sex, Steve Miller appreciation threads. . .worse? This plague-like wave of questionable taste needs musical a musical ubermensch like myself. Now, everyone in this thread that has awful taste, get against the f'n wall.

White Man, is Radiohead a popular band? Yes/no.

 

[Megafoo Chavez]

i always thought a warm place and somewhat damaged are his best tracks.

I try my best. If topics like this become acceptable, what next? Man on dog sex, Steve Miller appreciation threads. . .worse? This plague-like wave of questionable taste needs a musical ubermensch like myself. Now, everyone in this thread that has awful taste, get against the f'n wall.

leave those threads to me!

 

[White Man]

White Man, is Radiohead a popular band? Yes/no.

I'd like to see anyone defend the claim that they're unpopular.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

White Man, is Radiohead a popular band? Yes/no.

he didn't say 'popular', he said 'mainstream' - i would consider mainstream to be all that 50 cent, britney, good charlotte etc stuff that's on mtv non stop. radiohead haven't had a big song with mainstream penetration for years, and neither have the pumpkins, and NIN occasionally has a big chart song but most of his stuff flies under the radar.

edit : and yes i'm AWARE the pumpkins don't exist anymore

 

[Diablos]

I try my best. If topics like this become acceptable, what next? Man on dog sex, Steve Miller appreciation threads. . .worse? This plague-like wave of questionable taste needs a musical ubermensch like myself. Now, everyone in this thread that has awful taste, get against the f'n wall.



THEY WERE STUDIO GENIUSES!

Your buddy on the left is bell woods.

 

[Diablos]

he didn't say 'popular', he said 'mainstream'

Thank you.

 

[Lambtron]

According to the RIAA all of Radiohead's LPs have gone gold, and so have the DVDs. Pablo Honey, The Bends, OK Computer, and Kid A all went platinum, as did the Meeting People is Easy DVD.

All the magazines and shit eat Radiohead up. Yeah, they're not on the radio as much as like 50 Cent or garbage like that. But they're far more "famous' than most bands.

 

[enjoy bell woods]

Not to mention their shows sell out in like 20 seconds.

 

[Sullichin]

Radiohead is NOT mainstream, that's not to say that they don't have a gigantic following but NIN is probably more of a mainstream band, the music is more accessible.

How did Corgan (or Reznor) do ANYTHING in the studio that sounded outside of the norm for 90s rock bands?

Closer, Ruiner, A Warm Place, The Way out is through, All The Love in the World, Only, etc. MOST NIN songs actually, are 'outside the norm'. I don't see how you can deny this, some of his stuff is extremely different. There are a lot of rock songs also, but they do have their own distinct sound.

Trent knows what he's doing on the studio and on the stage. His live performances are unbelievable. His studio tracks are amazing. Thus, his fans consider him a studio and stage genius (if those are even real terms )

 

[Diablos]

According to the RIAA all of Radiohead's LPs have gone gold, and so have the DVDs. Pablo Honey, The Bends, OK Computer, and Kid A all went platinum, as did the Meeting People is Easy DVD.

All the magazines and shit eat Radiohead up. Yeah, they're not on the radio as much as like 50 Cent or garbage like that. But they're far more "famous' than most bands.

Dude, I bet Limp Bizkit and Staind have sold more records than Radiohead.

Not to mention their shows sell out in like 20 seconds.

It's called a DEDICATED FANBASE! When Zwan's album came out, did you know it was #3 on the charts? Yes, #3. That's amazing. Then, a couple weeks later, it was nowhere to be seen. :lol

 

[Diablos]

dp

 

[Lambtron]

And Radiohead has sold more records than my top 3 favorite bands combined. What's yr point?

 

[Diablos]

And what are your top 3 bands?

 

[Dead]

This thread is the accumulation of everything wrong with music discussion on gaf.


Just stop.


Please?

 

[Ollie Pooch]

again - i don't think it's being argued that radiohead isn't popular. they are - but i think they tend to fly under the radar of the general public - ask someone to name or sing a radiohead song from the past 5 years, and they probably can't. conversely, ask someone to name / sing a coldplay song, and they can - radiohead are massively popular, but i don't think they cater to the mainstream sensibility at all. anyway, it's all bullshit semantics.

EBW/white man - you ain't gonna change anyone's opinions of a band just by bagging them and suggesting some unrelated alternatives

This thread is the accumulation of everything wrong with music discussion on gaf.


Just stop.


Please?

agreed!

 

[Lambtron]

Ween, The Wrens, Hot Snakes. You could probably take my top 10.

To say that Radiohead isn't "mainstream" is pretty much ludicrous.