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[aegies]

You can believe my opinions or not. That's fine. I would merely point out that the upgrade system in NG3: Razor's Edge actually takes away abilities that the other versions started you off with and makes you buy them via karma without rebalancing the game. Also, the dragon ninpo is gone, and life is much shorter supply. It's harder and plays worse for no reason. And no, I don't think the controller is good for the game, though the button naming is hardly why, since you can change the configuration to match the PS3/360 layout. It's more examples of Team Ninja making sweeping changes and not understanding the fundamentals of what made Ninja Gaiden, Black, and even Ninja Gaiden 2 the games they were. Adding gore back in doesn't fix the game.

If you've convinced yourself that this is going to be the version that really makes Ninja Gaiden 3 good, well, have fun, I guess? It doesn't hurt me if you do. I'd just prefer to save fans of the series some heartache and some time. Take it or leave it.

 

[SteeloDMZ]

Why is this guy angry all the time ?

Dude is the real life Kratos

 

[Eusis]

https://twitter.com/aegies/status/266766007257923585

https://twitter.com/aegies/status/267344780827164673

https://twitter.com/aegies/status/267346164842643456

I'm not trying to shit on the guy, it just seems he likes to make up his mind about things without giving them a chance. It wasn't even a week when he was complaining about the Pro Controller. They are also reviewing the console btw, as it is without the update, which probably means they are going to shit on it.

Well, that confirms my thought. I actually kinda hope Nintendo manages to snap it back to b/cancel and a/confirm, but failing that (which they probably will pending a truly epic crash) at least there'll be less weirdness with game localizations.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

Why is this guy angry all the time ?

Should've seen him in the Deus Ex OT last year when people were talking about his shitty review. The sad thing is that he was in the thread within 5 minutes of posting it lol. "Journalists" love to shit on GAF, but they probably lurk the forums more than any of us combined.

edit: holy shit, he's in this thread too rofl.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Should've seen him in the Deus Ex OT last year when people were talking about his shitty review. The sad thing is that he was in the thread within 5 minutes of posting it lol. "Journalists" love to shit on GAF, but they probably lurk the forums more than any of us combined.

Dude...don't...look...behind you.

 

[KillerTravis]

You can believe my opinions or not. That's fine. I would merely point out that the upgrade system in NG3: Razor's Edge actually takes away abilities that the other versions started you off with and makes you buy them via karma without rebalancing the game. Also, the dragon ninpo is gone, and life is much shorter supply. It's harder and plays worse for no reason. And no, I don't think the controller is good for the game, though the button naming is hardly why, since you can change the configuration to match the PS3/360 layout. It's more examples of Team Ninja making sweeping changes and not understanding the fundamentals of what made Ninja Gaiden, Black, and even Ninja Gaiden 2 the games they were. Adding gore back in doesn't fix the game.

If you've convinced yourself that this is going to be the version that really makes Ninja Gaiden 3 good, well, have fun, I guess? It doesn't hurt me if you do. I'd just prefer to save fans of the series some heartache and some time. Take it or leave it.

I see were you are coming from. Still I'll wait for more opinions, although I don't really have high expectations.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Well, that didn't take long. We've already jumped ahead to "let's discredit reviewer because he gave a game I was looking forward to a lower score than I wanted". If he said it was a huge improvement, none of the negativity would have appeared.

Shoutouts to 8.8/Jeff Gerstmann is fat/check out his past reviews with his bad scores

 

[SapientWolf]

I guess you can't polish a turd.

 

[zroid]

You can believe my opinions or not. That's fine. I would merely point out that the upgrade system in NG3: Razor's Edge actually takes away abilities that the other versions started you off with and makes you buy them via karma without rebalancing the game. Also, the dragon ninpo is gone, and life is much shorter supply. It's harder and plays worse for no reason. And no, I don't think the controller is good for the game, though the button naming is hardly why, since you can change the configuration to match the PS3/360 layout. It's more examples of Team Ninja making sweeping changes and not understanding the fundamentals of what made Ninja Gaiden, Black, and even Ninja Gaiden 2 the games they were. Adding gore back in doesn't fix the game.

If you've convinced yourself that this is going to be the version that really makes Ninja Gaiden 3 good, well, have fun, I guess? It doesn't hurt me if you do. I'd just prefer to save fans of the series some heartache and some time. Take it or leave it.

*massive sigh*

Well it's not like I was actually anticipating it much anyway. More hopeful than anything else.

 

[Kai Dracon]

ALERT ALERT ALERT

A GAME JOURNALIST IS APPROACHING

But seriously I can see the sense in the overview of the problems. Sounds like a rebalancing rush job, even if each change, in concept, was good.

I'll wait for impressions but it's not looking good for the kid.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Well, that didn't take long. We've already jumped ahead to "let's discredit reviewer because he gave a game I was looking forward to a lower score than I wanted". If he said it was a huge improvement, none of the negativity would have appeared.

He didn't do a review, there was probs no time. But he sure did take enough time to make a pretty damning statement about its quality without substantiation or context. Until he found out GAF was talking about him again.

 

[Jetku]

I don't plan on getting ng3, and honestly assume it will be bad, especially considering the original...

...but nothing Arthur Gies ever posts will affect my opinion on anything. He always brought down any ign podcast that he appeared on. His tweets don't shock me at all, and to me, his opinion is valueless. Really, polygon collected a large group of game journalists that I had no respect for and housed them under one roof. I am thankful for that.

 

[ohlawd]

snip

but Microsoft standardized modern controls!

 

[Eusis]

And no, I don't think the controller is good for the game, though the button naming is hardly why, since you can change the configuration to match the PS3/360 layout.

I was afraid that the Wii U controller wasn't going to be very nice to 3D action games, even if it may be better for FPSes and is surprisingly good (from what little I tried) with D-Pad controls. Ah well, maybe I can adjust for when Bayonetta 2 hits.

 

[japtor]

I guess you can't polish a turd.

Eh... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

 

[hatchx]

You can believe my opinions or not. That's fine. I would merely point out that the upgrade system in NG3: Razor's Edge actually takes away abilities that the other versions started you off with and makes you buy them via karma without rebalancing the game. Also, the dragon ninpo is gone, and life is much shorter supply. It's harder and plays worse for no reason. And no, I don't think the controller is good for the game, though the button naming is hardly why, since you can change the configuration to match the PS3/360 layout. It's more examples of Team Ninja making sweeping changes and not understanding the fundamentals of what made Ninja Gaiden, Black, and even Ninja Gaiden 2 the games they were. Adding gore back in doesn't fix the game.

If you've convinced yourself that this is going to be the version that really makes Ninja Gaiden 3 good, well, have fun, I guess? It doesn't hurt me if you do. I'd just prefer to save fans of the series some heartache and some time. Take it or leave it.

This is all fair and good, but that 'Microsoft set the standard thing ten years'....really? It's the letter name of the damn button. You must have immediately written on Playstation for not sticking to 'the standard'

 

[SapientWolf]

I don't plan on getting ng3, and honestly assume it will be bad, especially considering the original...

...but nothing Arthur Gies ever posts will affect my opinion on anything. He always brought down any ign podcast that he appeared on. His tweets don't shock me at all, and to me, his opinion is valueless. Really, polygon collected a large group of game journalists that I had no respect for and housed them under one roof. I am thankful for that.

This thread is so salty. Does Gies like to say bad things about Nintendo?

 

[chickdigger802]

hate what ya want about Gies, he is probably one of the few guys in the press that gets why NGB was amazing.

He was one of the few that shat on NG vita, while everyone else was like "30 fps is fine!"

 

[Richie]

You can believe my opinions or not. That's fine. I would merely point out that the upgrade system in NG3: Razor's Edge actually takes away abilities that the other versions started you off with and makes you buy them via karma without rebalancing the game. Also, the dragon ninpo is gone, and life is much shorter supply. It's harder and plays worse for no reason. And no, I don't think the controller is good for the game, though the button naming is hardly why, since you can change the configuration to match the PS3/360 layout. It's more examples of Team Ninja making sweeping changes and not understanding the fundamentals of what made Ninja Gaiden, Black, and even Ninja Gaiden 2 the games they were. Adding gore back in doesn't fix the game.

If you've convinced yourself that this is going to be the version that really makes Ninja Gaiden 3 good, well, have fun, I guess? It doesn't hurt me if you do. I'd just prefer to save fans of the series some heartache and some time. Take it or leave it.

Hah! If this turns out true, many owe an apology to ZombiU! THIS is Wii U's Red Steel!

 

[Jetku]

This thread is so salty. Does Gies like to say bad things about Nintendo?

Nothing to do with Nintendo for me. He mostly spoke about Xbox games. Any of the ign podcasts he would frequent were worsened for me by his presence. He is very low energy and overly negative.

Hah! If this turns out true, many owe an apology to ZombiU! THIS is Wii U's Red Steel!

This game isn't hyped like Red Steel was. Many are hoping NG3:RE is....less bad.

 

[Eusis]

This is all fair and good, but that 'Microsoft set the standard thing ten years'....really? It's the letter name of the damn button. You must have immediately written on Playstation for not sticking to 'the standard'

Once you see the confirm/deny thing it's pretty clear it's more about that than which letter is where, even if it's more appropriate to attribute it to Sony. Which is something I disagree with too, but I'm in the minority and recognize it's a pain when you have to switch. At least it's not on the same controller as PS3/360, I actually have a tougher time using A cancel/B Confirm when switching on a 360 controller, whereas that's never a problem for me on Wii's Classic Controller or the (3)DS, but if it's flipped to B confirm/A cancel on the Nintendo controllers I get screwed up really bad. I'm sure as long as the Wii U games use B cancel/A confirm more often than not I'll be fine, I'll subconsciously know from the feel of the controller.

Can go either way on Playstation controllers actually, I blame/thank Hideo Kojima games then flipping that around for some late PS1 RPGs.

Hah! If this turns out true, many owe an apology to ZombiU! THIS is Wii U's Red Steel!

More like the typical warmed over left overs from the prior generation really. Most generations have some of that, and the Wii had some with mangled controls as a result if I'm remembering right.

 

[aegies]

This is all fair and good, but that 'Microsoft set the standard thing ten years'....really? It's the letter name of the damn button. You must have immediately written on Playstation for not sticking to 'the standard'

I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation — both use a + shape for their buttons, as does nintendo with the WiiU. The bottom of the plus has always been "confirm" or "go forward" or whatever. Even the gamecube had a big damned A button where your thumb rested. But now they've gone back to SNES layout and have kept "a" as the forward button, which sits where "b" on the 360 pad and circle on the PS3 pad rests. And yeah. It's goddamned confusing going back and forth between games on the PS3 and 360 and the WiiU and mixing them up. Is it a small thing? Sure. It's still backwards and dumb.

 

[Jetku]

I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation — both use a + shape for their buttons, as does nintendo with the WiiU. The bottom of the plus has always been "confirm" or "go forward" or whatever. Even the gamecube had a big damned A button where your thumb rested. But now they've gone back to SNES layout and have kept "a" as the forward button, which sits where "b" on the 360 pad and circle on the PS3 pad rests. And yeah. It's goddamned confusing going back and forth between games on the PS3 and 360 and the WiiU and mixing them up. Is it a small thing? Sure. It's still backwards and dumb.

Did you ignore the DS, one of the most successful systems ever...?

 

[Bog]

Wasn't there a whole thread in the OT about psychopaths who use their real picture as their avatar?

 

[Squire]

Did you ignore the DS, one of the most successful systems ever...?

Do you consider the DS a console? Who cares how sucessful it is? Disagree all you want; the comparison isn't fair.

 

[aegies]

Did you ignore the DS, one of the most successful systems ever...?

Most of the DS games I played used the stylus. And it was never a system for the kind of game this is.

 

[zroid]

I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation

TBH, as someone who plays games on Nintendo platforms a lot, the "standard" has and always will be (right) A to confirm, and (bottom) B to cancel. I constantly press the wrong button when I'm using a PS3 or 360.

Also, in fairness, Sony uses O for confirm and X to cancel in Japan, too. This change is a relatively recent one and only happened in the West. When you think about it, O to confirm and X to cancel makes sense -- the controller was originally designed in this way.

 

[Bog]

Most of the DS games I played used the stylus. And it was never a system for the kind of game this is.

You stop playing DS games in 2005?

 

[Chanser]

I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation — both use a + shape for their buttons, as does nintendo with the WiiU. The bottom of the plus has always been "confirm" or "go forward" or whatever. Even the gamecube had a big damned A button where your thumb rested. But now they've gone back to SNES layout and have kept "a" as the forward button, which sits where "b" on the 360 pad and circle on the PS3 pad rests. And yeah. It's goddamned confusing going back and forth between games on the PS3 and 360 and the WiiU and mixing them up. Is it a small thing? Sure. It's still backwards and dumb.

Get use to it Arthur, I never had a problem switching between those controllers.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

Obviously Microsoft set the standard for controller confirmation, they earned that right when they bankrolled Polygon. That is how things work.

Remember that whole discussion about credibility and appearances of impropriety?

I assumed anyone who ever played import playstation platform games got used to switching anyway.

 

[CronoShot]

Do you consider the DS a console? Who cares how sucessful it is? Disagree all you want; the comparison isn't fair.

It's completely fair. It's a button layout used for a video game system. The Wii classic controllers use the same layout as well. Really, the N64 and GCN controllers were the exception rather than the rule.

 

[raven777]

I am too much used to O being ok and X being back due to Japanese systems. Still gets confused when I switch between US games and Japanese games.

 

[Squire]

It's completely fair. It's a button layout used for a video game system. The Wii classic controllers use the same layout as well. Really, the N64 and GCN controllers were the exception rather than the rule.

I disagree given the differences between the games the scheme serves on DS and the ones it does on console. Very apples and oranges comparison. Reducing the argument to "it's hardware that plays video games" makes it an argument not even worth having.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Oh my god. Imagine the blow to moral at Team Ninja if this one somehow does worse critically.

 

[Alchemy]

But... but... but... Nintendo will fix everything!!!!

Spoiler

Not surprised.

Team Ninja simply doesn't know what the fuck they're doing anymore unless it involves breast physics.

 

[CaLe]

You can believe my opinions or not. That's fine. I would merely point out that the upgrade system in NG3: Razor's Edge actually takes away abilities that the other versions started you off with and makes you buy them via karma without rebalancing the game. Also, the dragon ninpo is gone, and life is much shorter supply. It's harder and plays worse for no reason. And no, I don't think the controller is good for the game, though the button naming is hardly why, since you can change the configuration to match the PS3/360 layout. It's more examples of Team Ninja making sweeping changes and not understanding the fundamentals of what made Ninja Gaiden, Black, and even Ninja Gaiden 2 the games they were. Adding gore back in doesn't fix the game.

If you've convinced yourself that this is going to be the version that really makes Ninja Gaiden 3 good, well, have fun, I guess? It doesn't hurt me if you do. I'd just prefer to save fans of the series some heartache and some time. Take it or leave it.

Well.. That's one game off the list of launch titles to get. Rather disappointing, though I guess I'll wait for more opinions to confirm everything. Still, what a mess. Glad there's ZombiU at least... Don't you dare shit on it man, don't you dare.

*Runs away sobbing*

P.S: Thanks for the clarifications.

 

[Yuripaw]

I got this game preordered for my Wii U, but I must admit, this is the one game I'm most unsure about. It looks awesome from trailers, and the original NG game was so much fun. As someone who hasn't really burned out on the style of NG's gameplay, I'm not gonna complain if they're just readding elements of NG1 and 2 in NG3 which was flawed for removing some of those elements..

However, for those of you who have played the original NG3 on xbox or ps3...is readding elements from NG1 and 2 enough to make this a good game? Beyond the missing gameplay elements, could this game be awesome? That's the question I've been wondering about, since I really have no experience with NG3 in it's original form.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I've never played NG3 but I heard it was piss easy. In what ways is Razors Edge harder? I would really like to know this. Are the enemies stupidly strong? Do they take too much damage?

And what the hell is a dragon ninpo?

I've played NG1 and 2 (and beat them) but I never relied on any ninpos. I barely used them.

 

[Eusis]

I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation — both use a + shape for their buttons, as does nintendo with the WiiU. The bottom of the plus has always been "confirm" or "go forward" or whatever. Even the gamecube had a big damned A button where your thumb rested. But now they've gone back to SNES layout and have kept "a" as the forward button, which sits where "b" on the 360 pad and circle on the PS3 pad rests. And yeah. It's goddamned confusing going back and forth between games on the PS3 and 360 and the WiiU and mixing them up. Is it a small thing? Sure. It's still backwards and dumb.

Nintendo's in kind of an odd position there though, given that as noted they kept the B cancel/A confirm with the DS and 3DS. For the people who are not going to just "know" from the feel of the controller they'd have to choose: flipping it around for the people from Sony/Microsoft platforms, or staying the same for their userbase that plays a solid amount of DS/3DS? Depending on where the next generation goes with userbases it's probably safer to err on the latter, the DS userbase, as it may well be that people who want Mario/Zelda/Pokemon more than Halo/Uncharted will be on both 3DS and Wii U, while the people who want the latter type of game move away anyway. Then there's the people that'll play on whatever, but obviously they had to get used to it years ago anyway.

Also, in fairness, Sony uses O for confirm and X to cancel in Japan, too. This change is a relatively recent one and only happened in the West. When you think about it, O to confirm and X to cancel makes sense -- the controller was originally designed in this way.

It's why I get frustrated with it rather than simply accepting it as a po-tay-to/po-tah-to quirk. The designer of the controller even said X was intended for cancel and O for confirm, but Sony apparently didn't care to keep things more smoothly coordinated when the PS1 launched and caused a rift between regions. And it shows in some localizations, on a minor level some have you use O for examining things but X for confirmation, and at an extreme you have DQVIII being dumb and using X AND O for confirm, because X was cancel, O was the menu/confirm button, and Triangle was the all purpose examine/talk/use/confirm button and they brainlessly switched.

 

[Ahasverus]

@Arthur: You're the man, don't feed the swarm of gaf-gods out there.

OMG this can't be true Hayashit is really the anti-gaming prophetized by the elder gods of gaming taking his revenge after ET. This is incredible.

 

[Squire]

@Arthur: You're the man, don't feed the swarm of gaf-gods out there.

OMG this can't be true Hayashit is really the anti-gaming prophetized by the elder gods of gaming taking his revenge after ET. This is incredible.

.

 

[hatchx]

I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation — both use a + shape for their buttons, as does nintendo with the WiiU. The bottom of the plus has always been "confirm" or "go forward" or whatever. Even the gamecube had a big damned A button where your thumb rested. But now they've gone back to SNES layout and have kept "a" as the forward button, which sits where "b" on the 360 pad and circle on the PS3 pad rests. And yeah. It's goddamned confusing going back and forth between games on the PS3 and 360 and the WiiU and mixing them up. Is it a small thing? Sure. It's still backwards and dumb.

This is the most trivial complaint I've ever heard. You are somehow blaming a console manufacturer for the button layout decided by the individual developer.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

y'all are bein Dumb As Heck

 

[CronoShot]

I disagree given the differences between the games the scheme serves on DS and the ones it does on console. Very apples and oranges comparison. Reducing the argument to "it's hardware that plays video games" makes it an argument not even worth having.

The face button layout is exactly the same. How is it apples and oranges? Handhelds and consoles have their differences, but they're not worlds apart.

I mean, imagine if Sony had randomly switched the X and O buttons on the Vita. Do you think people would be okay with that simply because it's a handheld?

 

[Hero]

Complaining about the button layout that Nintendo had since SNES, is this real life?

 

[Squire]

They don't need to be "worlds apart". They're different enough though. And the games on DS and vast majority on Vita are pretty different from console libraries.

You're only focusing on button layouts. I'm talking about the games they're typically applied to. You change as needed.

 

[DrM]

Only standard set by Microsoft in the game industry is how to get consumers to pay for things others give for free.

Good one

 

[zroid]

Team Ninja simply doesn't know what the fuck they're doing anymore unless it involves breast physics.

Considering DOA5 (and DOA: Dimensions, for that matter) is actually thought to be a good fighting game by most, I think their problem lies more in a lack of strong talent for scenario and level design. And their vision for NG3 was simply not a good one.

 

[Retro_]

Well subscribed

see you guys next week when people are playing it

 

[Eusis]

They don't need to be "worlds apart". They're different enough though. And the games on DS and vast majority on Vita are pretty different from console libraries.

You're only focusing on button layouts. I'm talking about the games they're typically applied to. You change as needed.

I think the type of game isn't really all that relevant though, I've been fine with Xenoblade and Goldeneye using B cancel/A confirm on Wii. Even in the handheld space you'd have to switch between Sony's X Confirm/O cancel and Nintendo's B cancel/A confirm. I imagine more it's that someone who hasn't been playing the Wii with the Classic Controller or is just used to HD games having it a certain way will be thrown off at first, but perhaps because of the different controllers and system interface can get used to B cancel/A confirm when holding a Wii U Game Pad or even Pro Controller, then instantly switch back to the X/A confirm and O/B cancel when on the other two platforms. I can't be the only one who gets used to which is which based on the controller held, otherwise we'd have probably seen more people complaining on handhelds unless more than I expect stick with only one.

On that note, I do wonder which it is ZombiU is doing, or if it has a switch. Hell, honestly I'd probably be happiest if all three adopted a system level switch, then it's a complete non issue whichever you prefer. And I can switch if a game's setup is conflicting with one or the other.