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Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's dge |OT| I guess that's what it means to be a ninja

S

sixteen-bit

Member
LOL. First Metroid, now Ninja Gaiden.

Shoutouts to Hayashit for destroying my favorite franchises.

He's reverse King Midas. Everything he touches turns to shit.
 
C

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Zeer0id said:
jv857Mc7texxU.png


...what


note: he reviewed the original and it was awarded 5/10
Click to expand...

iuNQnLLgwGtln.gif


You gotta be kidding me Hayashi. How the hell is this even possible?
 
E

Effect

Member
I thought one of the problems with NG3 was that it was to easy. Why is it being harder a problem? He's suppose to be a NG fan. I thought fans want things to be harder. Don't understand that part of the complaint. Especially since he goes on to say that Team Ninja doesn't understand what made the past NG's good. Either they do (by making it harder) or they don't. Complaining at the button layout is just...ugh. Being reminded who funded that site was good. Thanks for that.
 
P

Pachinko

Member
I think I might take one for the team with this game , unless it gets positively trashed all around (like NG3 was getting 5's everywhere, I'd say this version would need to get 3's everywhere) I'm going to pick it up and try to finish it like it was for a review and get back to gaf.

I consider myself a veteran of the rebooted series (not so much the NES entries) , hardly a master ninja though, It's just I've purchased almost every version available. Ninja Gaiden, black, sigma, II, sigma II, dragon sword. I've liked them all but due to the demo I passed on 3 when it came out.

If the game is seriously that bad I'll just trade it off for something else.
 
C

chickdigger802

Banned
Effect said:
I thought one of the problems with NG3 was that it was to easy. Why is it being harder a problem? He's suppose to be a NG fan. I thought fans want things to be harder.
Click to expand...

seems like they tried to make it more like the old games, but without actually making it play better.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Effect said:
I thought one of the problems with NG3 was that it was to easy. Why is it being harder a problem? He's suppose to be a NG fan. I thought fans want things to be harder.
Click to expand...

Difficulty was the least of NG3's problems. If the game is still boring, who cares how easy or difficult it is?
 
W

wsippel

Banned
aegies said:
I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation — both use a + shape for their buttons, as does nintendo with the WiiU. The bottom of the plus has always been "confirm" or "go forward" or whatever. Even the gamecube had a big damned A button where your thumb rested. But now they've gone back to SNES layout and have kept "a" as the forward button, which sits where "b" on the 360 pad and circle on the PS3 pad rests. And yeah. It's goddamned confusing going back and forth between games on the PS3 and 360 and the WiiU and mixing them up. Is it a small thing? Sure. It's still backwards and dumb.
Click to expand...
That's... incredible. No, MS and Sony didn't set a standard. The right button was always confirm. Since the NES. And even on Sony systems - at least in Japan. For some asinine reason, Sony didn't follow the standard in the west, and Microsoft, playing "follow the leader", copied that (wrong) layout. Your complaint is understandable, but it's completely misdirected. Blame Sony.
 
C

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Robot Pants said:
It really can't be worse than before. I really refuse to believe that
Click to expand...

That's what I'm saying. Ninja Gaiden 3 is one of the worst fucking games I've played in years. It was an insult to all the hard work put into modern classics like Devil May Cry 3: SE, Ninja Gaiden Black and Bayonetta.

The game has too many problems to be polished into anything considered good but I at least expected a decent weekend worth of fun.
 
E

Effect

Member
Saint Gregory said:
This sounds pretty unreal... worse? How is that possible.

Will any of the major sites be reviewing the game prior to release?
Click to expand...

IGN says there's will be going up on the 13th. No idea when though. Could be midnight PST or during the middle of the day or any time in the evening.

I'm just looking for a average of the reviews to know if the game is decent. Not looking to see if it's "OMG this is great" but okay, playable, and has a decent amount of features. I really liked what I saw in the launch trailer.
 
N

Noi

Member
I literally can't imagine a worse NG3. I played and beat it on a rental in a single sitting and I still felt ripped off in comparison to other stuff I could have picked.
 
G

Gummb

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about Rayman Legends Wii U.
KillerTravis said:
Yeah I followed his comments on twitter and got the perception he was hating the game. Although after comments like "whichever third party makes a controller with offset analog sticks takes my money" or "fucking a and b buttons are not placed correctly, they should follow the standard set by microsoft 10 years ago" makes me a bit sceptical about his opinions.

I guess we will see soon enough.
Click to expand...

Nes-controller.jpg

snes-controlpad.jpg

controller_gba_diagram.jpg

nintendo_ds_lite2x.jpg

tumblr_mb8cpfb3m21ri1vtso1_1280.jpg

397663_100816200128_wii_classic_controller.jpg

Wii-U-GamePad.jpg


*ignores 30 years of continuity*

10-year STANDARD:
Fat-Xbox-Controller-With-Guts-Of-360-Pads-For-Halo-Ce.jpg
 
DR2K

DR2K

Banned
Reviewers don't have time to review or play games these days. Just playing that Halo 4/AAA game with everyone's favorite beverage and snack.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
NateDrake said:
It's harder = game sucks, probably.
Click to expand...

It's like people aren't reading the post at the very top of this page explaining exactly what the person means (at least, I assume it's the same person doing the tweeting).

But, I mean, it's not like NG3 was good. At all. It's far easier for me to believe that it is still a horrible game than it has become a decent one.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The hype surrounding this game always seemed to have a weird faux-hype aura to me, as if it was being projected by people who hadn't touched Ninja Gaiden 3, had little experience with the franchise, and were only interested in the game because it's a Wii U launch title, Nintendo is publishing it, and "Team Ninja is fixing it". Pretty much everybody disappointed with Ninja Gaiden 3 has stated ad nauseum that Ninja Gaiden 3's fundamental problems were not the lack of gore, the absence of variety and levelling systems, ease of play, or anything like that. These were problems, but not the reason Ninja Gaiden 3 was considered a poor game. It's a poor game because the core mechanical design, encounter design, pacing, and game design is just plain shitty. For many people the possibility of a good Ninja Gaiden 3 could only exist if the entire game was remade as something different, because the issues with the vanilla release are that deeply rooted in the design.

Maybe they pulled it off, I don't know and I won't be finding out first hand because I'm not going to risk it, but I'm not in the least bit surprised to hear someone familiar with the franchise finds Razor's Edge to be just as much of a turd as the original NG3.
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
Skilletor said:
How is it worse. I cannot conceive how it could be worse. My mind is full of fuck trying to think of how it could be worse.

What is this guy's opinion on the previous NG games? Maybe it's more like NG and less like other action games, and that's why he dislikes it more. Maybe?
Click to expand...

Out of all the mainstream reviewers I can think of, this man is one of the ones I can respect the most as he "gets NG"


and while I was initially very positive about the changes, After playing the original to completion, I now agree with the consensus:- NG3 is a broken Ninja gaiden game at its core. It cannot be fixed. Adding NG2 mechanics, least in the main campaign probably has just made things worse.


mission mode may however, may be vastly Improved
 
H

hiro4

Member
aegies said:
Most of the DS games I played used the stylus. And it was never a system for the kind of game this is.
Click to expand...

Really? That is your argument?
I hope you can see the ignorance in that sentence since that is some schoolyard level reasoning.

Also isnt it more logical for a controller layout in a plus form, that the button on the right is going forward? Like see the button layout for your video/DVD/Blu-ray player. Or the A button on the Nintendo controller?
 
W

wsippel

Banned
What I don't get is that the game supposedly became harder as abilities were taken away without rebalancing the game, when the game obviously is rebalanced. The changes to the combat system itself and the reworked AI do that by default. That obviously doesn't necessarily mean it's better now of course, but Gies makes it sound like it's the exact same game, just with an artificially increased difficulty and gore. And that doesn't sound right.
 
U

ultim8p00

Banned
HOW could this game get any worse? I mean, NG3 is a broken piece of shit and will never be good, but adding new weapons, abilities, re-balancing the AI, leveling, etc should make the game LESS of a piece of shit.

Holy shit if true.
 
H

Hiltz

Member
I haven't played a Ninja Gaiden game before and would like to. Unfortunately, it seems like Razor's Edge won't be the one to start off at.
 
R

Rush2thestart

Member
I feel like a good portion of people are misreading what he's saying.

Its fine to say what you've been saying for the past months "you cant polish a turd, blah blah etc"

Thats fine. But he's not saying the game is just as bad as it was. He's saying its worse.
 
G

guek

Banned
EatChildren said:
The hype surrounding this game always seemed to have a weird faux-hype aura to me, as if it was being projected by people who hadn't touched Ninja Gaiden 3, had little experience with the franchise, and were only interested in the game because it's a Wii U launch title, Nintendo is publishing it, and "Team Ninja is fixing it". Pretty much everybody disappointed with Ninja Gaiden 3 has stated ad nauseum that Ninja Gaiden 3's fundamental problems were not the lack of gore, the absence of variety and levelling systems, ease of play, or anything like that. These were problems, but not the reason Ninja Gaiden 3 was considered a poor game. It's a poor game because the core mechanical design, encounter design, pacing, and game design is just plain shitty. For many people the possibility of a good Ninja Gaiden 3 could only exist if the entire game was remade as something different, because the issues with the vanilla release are that deeply rooted in the design.

Maybe they pulled it off, I don't know and I won't be finding out first hand because I'm not going to risk it, but I'm not in the least bit surprised to hear someone familiar with the franchise finds Razor's Edge to be just as much of a turd as the original NG3.
Click to expand...

I think people literally thought they could wish it to be good.

I know that's what I was doing :-(
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
I can tell you exact how the game is worse if they haven't balanced 2 fundamental problems with NG3:- the dragon nippo health regen and the grab mechanics of the A.I

Grabs are way way way overpowered in this game. They come out in 2 frames in some cases, cause a disproportionate amount of damage and are much harder to avoid, because the slide has a larger startup and recovery than the dash and roll ever did,and that's ignoring the tendency of the the analog to become unresponsive at key moments.

With the normal grunts its not a big deal but with the mages, who not only have 2 grabs bit have s fucking health drain grab and that's a bug problem.

And let's not bring difficulty into it. Even NG2 with its cheap IS Ninja spam didn't cheapen the difficulty in a way that made the game TEDIOUS.

further more, the dragon regen health idea is just poorly thought out. It basically means to beat the game on higher difficulties you have to do a no hurt run.. Which is fine, except for every encounter, you are facing several waves of enemies, that have attack pattens that are bound to do chip damage. Add the cheap grabs, that with some enemies include lunging grabs that can hit you from offscreen and you start to see why things are fucked up.

furthermore, one of my biggest peeves with the original NG3 was the fact that they took the single cheapest enemy from NG2 and made them worse. The return of the multiple rocket Ninja (though they are just mercenaries now) is bad enough, but to make the rate of rocket fire FASTER is unbelievablely stupid.

There is Plently other ways NG3 is broken at the core but those are the ones that stood out to me in my playthrough and if they are changed it makes this port even worse as you actually need SOB, murder UT and dragon ninpo to beat the game. NG2 mechanics while looking and feeling better, won't help you to progress because you still have to follow the gameplay mandate of NG3.

Which is at its core cheap, tedious and broken.
 
E

Eusis

Member
NateDrake said:
It's harder = game sucks, probably.
Click to expand...
We're talking about Ninja Gaiden. If a fan of the series says its worse relative to prior entries, then IT'S PROBABLY NOT BECAUSE OF DIFFICULTY BECAUSE THOSE PRIOR ENTRIES ARE SOME OF THE HARDEST GAMES FROM THE LAST TEN YEARS. Nevermind the difference between fair difficulty and cheap difficulty, that's important to remember.
EatChildren said:
The hype surrounding this game always seemed to have a weird faux-hype aura to me, as if it was being projected by people who hadn't touched Ninja Gaiden 3, had little experience with the franchise, and were only interested in the game because it's a Wii U launch title, Nintendo is publishing it, and "Team Ninja is fixing it".
Click to expand...
I'm guilty of that to an extent, but it's more out of a morbid fascination to see if adding all this stuff back, along with possibly other changes, could in fact fix the game, and I wasn't going to be a guinea pig for that when there's other exclusives (NSMBU and ZombiU) and multiplatform titles (Assassin's Creed III, maybe Epic Mickey 2, maybe even BLOPS 2) I was more interested in. I guess the problem they faced with this is that you HAVE to have been rushed and unable to implant a lot of stuff you wanted, versus consciously removing that stuff only to go "oh, maybe that wasn't a good idea afterall", then fail to make it mesh well once put in because it wasn't an intended part of the game and you fail to redesign enough to accommodate it. Kind of like why all the MGS2 abilities in Twin Snakes made the game a joke, they needed to go further in making it distinct from MGS1 beyond absurd feats in the cinematics.
 
J

japtor

Member
wsippel said:
That's... incredible. No, MS and Sony didn't set a standard. The right button was always confirm. Since the NES. And even on Sony systems - at least in Japan. For some asinine reason, Sony didn't follow the standard in the west, and Microsoft, playing "follow the leader", copied that (wrong) layout. Your complaint is understandable, but it's completely misdirected. Blame Sony.
Click to expand...
That's how it always made sense for me, albeit in an alternative way, the back button is always to the left of the confirm button. I'm fine with confirm being on the bottom (not hard for me to adjust between that or right), but back being to the right of confirm has always screwed me up. Maybe it made more sense with right to left language cultures.
.
Gummb said:
*ignores 30 years of continuity*

10-year STANDARD:
Fat-Xbox-Controller-With-Guts-Of-360-Pads-For-Halo-Ce.jpg
Click to expand...
Goddamn A and B are almost vertically aligned on the duke, no wonder that one screwed me up more than usual
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
aegies said:
I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation — both use a + shape for their buttons, as does nintendo with the WiiU. The bottom of the plus has always been "confirm" or "go forward" or whatever. Even the gamecube had a big damned A button where your thumb rested. But now they've gone back to SNES layout and have kept "a" as the forward button, which sits where "b" on the 360 pad and circle on the PS3 pad rests. And yeah. It's goddamned confusing going back and forth between games on the PS3 and 360 and the WiiU and mixing them up. Is it a small thing? Sure. It's still backwards and dumb.
Click to expand...

isn't circle the way to go forward in Japanese ps3 games? Maybe that is why?
 
I

iconoclast

Member
NG3 was already plenty hard on Ultimate Ninja, so increasing the difficulty won't do anything to make it a better game. Its problems run a hell of a lot deeper than that (like garbage AI, limited enemy variety, and poor encounter design from top to bottom, for starters).
 
B

BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!

Member
I have a very hard time believing that it's actually worse. The vanilla demo was one of the worst experiences that I've had with a game, everything looks like an improvement so far from the trailers. Then again, if they were dumb enough to release the original game as it is, maybe they did the same here.

Riposte said:
Is it harder?
Click to expand...

That's what she said.
 
S

Shinta

Banned
As people have said, difficulty wasn't ever the problem with NG3. Actually, the regular hard mode in NG3 is probably more difficult than any of the other games. It's just the wrong kind of difficulty.

You couldn't stock up on healing items at all, because there were no healing items. There were just waves and waves and waves of enemies with a ton of hit points, and it just got to be extremely tedious. You couldn't rely on ninpo, or even UTs. You had almost nothing to really help you through. You could easily get stuck at a checkpoint on a boss with 33% health, and you just had no way to heal, so you would have to restart the level.

Anyway, I really can't see how this one could be worse. The blood, extra weapons, extra characters, extra ninpo, weapon upgrading, and other extra content seems like a step up. Is it going to just amount to window dressing on top of a fundamentally broken game? Maybe. But I really don't want to hear anyone tell me it's worse without even a sentence of explanation why. Ninja Gaiden fans take the series seriously, and look at updates almost with the same eye for technical details that fighting game fans do. You don't drop in and say that the newest fighting game update is worse without even saying why. I remain skeptical.

Maybe the game won't fix anything, but even if its the same broken game plus extra content, that would technically be better than before.
 
P

Phife Dawg

Member
aegies said:
I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation — both use a + shape for their buttons, as does nintendo with the WiiU. The bottom of the plus has always been "confirm" or "go forward" or whatever. Even the gamecube had a big damned A button where your thumb rested. But now they've gone back to SNES layout and have kept "a" as the forward button, which sits where "b" on the 360 pad and circle on the PS3 pad rests. And yeah. It's goddamned confusing going back and forth between games on the PS3 and 360 and the WiiU and mixing them up. Is it a small thing? Sure. It's still backwards and dumb.
Click to expand...
BAHAHA. You guys should make a documentary about the standards in gaming
sponsored by IE9
.
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
aegies said:
I said microsoft and sony have set a standard for button confirmation — both use a + shape for their buttons, as does nintendo with the WiiU. The bottom of the plus has always been "confirm" or "go forward" or whatever. Even the gamecube had a big damned A button where your thumb rested. But now they've gone back to SNES layout and have kept "a" as the forward button, which sits where "b" on the 360 pad and circle on the PS3 pad rests. And yeah. It's goddamned confusing going back and forth between games on the PS3 and 360 and the WiiU and mixing them up. Is it a small thing? Sure. It's still backwards and dumb.
Click to expand...

To be fair, it's the opposite in Japan as far as Nintendo and Sony controllers go (which was something I had to get used to when I started importing PS games; O = confirm), and since both consoles are from there, well...
 
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