Support NeoGAF

[Dreamwriter]

I've never ready anything hinting at automatic AA whenever you turn off 3D. In fact that wouldn't make sense since Capcom chose to manually program AA in 2D for Resident Evil, they wouldn't do that if it were automatic.

Also hadn't heard about any AA in SSFIV in 2D mode, that's new.

 

[Marty Chinn]

AA and 60fps.

Someone gonna need to whip up a list of games now that provide such substantially superior features in 2D, and the exact list of technical benefits from turning off 3D. Each game seems to approach it differently. Thank god for the slider.

Dead or Alive - 60fps in 2D/30fps in 3D
Street Fighter IV - AA and 60fps in 2D/30fps in 3D
Lego Star Wars - 60fps in 2D/30fps in 2D

i know there's another game too but i forgot what it was

Lego Star Wars is 30 fps in 2D.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Where do people get the larger AR cards?

 

[AceBandage]

Where do people get the larger AR cards?

Scanner -> Printer

 

[Marty Chinn]

Where do people get the larger AR cards?

I assume they scan and blow them up in some sort of image app and then print them out.

 

[- J - D -]

Lego Star Wars is 30 fps in 2D.

Is it really? The team developing Lego Pirates claimed their game will run at 60fps in 2d. I'm assuming they're working using the same engine as the Lego SW team. What gives.

 

[AceBandage]

Is it really? The team developing Lego Pirates claimed their game will run at 60fps in 2d. I'm assuming they're working using the same engine as the Lego SW team. What gives.

Actually, I doubt that.
I think LSW is based on the PSP engine, while Pirates is the Wii engine with better lighting and effects.

 

[Graphics Horse]

No, when 3D is off it's not overlapping images anymore, it turns off the second screen layer and only renders in 400x240.

Dannie is saying SSFIV is actually doing 2D AA when the slider is down.
That particular game has a second option in the menu to give a 60fps 2D only mode without AA.

But yeah, it sounds like it's down to the game.

but given that it would only be *horizontal* AA anyway, it wouldn't necessarily be a perfect option.

There's nothing to say it couldn't be diagonally, if one frame is offset by half a pixel on each axis. Gran Turismo PSP alternates the camera like that at 60fps for a similar effect.

 

[The Hermit]

I don't know if someone answered already, but are the challenges in SSF43D?

 

[Deku]

I assume they scan and blow them up in some sort of image app and then print them out.

There is no need to scan them. Nintendo provided PDFs of the cards

http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/3ds_arcard.pdf

 

[Amir0x]

Lego Star Wars is 30 fps in 2D.

I meant Lego Pirates, heh.

 

[UncleSporky]

Dannie is saying SSFIV is actually doing 2D AA when the slider is down.
That particular game has a second option in the menu to give a 60fps 2D only mode without AA.

But yeah, it sounds like it's down to the game.

If it really has AA, I would assume it's doing it in the traditional way rather than trickery with the two screen layers. As was said before, that would only give you horizontal AA.

 

[Graphics Horse]

If it really has AA, I would assume it's doing it in the traditional way, post-processing on the 400x240 image.

Post processed AA is not traditional.

Blending 2 offset frames makes a lot more sense in this case, or alternatively they could just display at 800x240 with the barrier turned off, but I don't know if they're allowed to do that.

 

[- J - D -]

Actually, I doubt that.
I think LSW is based on the PSP engine, while Pirates is the Wii engine with better lighting and effects.

Oh right I forgot that LPotC is a Wii port. Considering that, it makes no sense that the 3DS could run that game at 60fps and LSW 3D only at 30fps if it is a PSP port.

 

[UncleSporky]

Yeah, I realized that after I posted and then edited.

 

[AceBandage]

Oh right I forgot that LPotC is a Wii port. Considering that, it makes no sense that the 3DS could run that game at 60fps and LSW 3D only at 30fps if it is a PSP port.

Longer dev time?
Better engine?
Dunno.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Yeah, I realized that after I posted and then edited.

Fair enough It might not have to be horizontal at all, it depends on the code which seperates the 2 cameras, I'm assuming special cases will be allowed when the slider is switched to off.

 

[blu]

Post processed AA is not traditional.

Blending 2 offset frames makes a lot more sense in this case, or alternatively they could just display at 800x240 with the barrier turned off, but I don't know if they're allowed to do that.

Or they could just turn on the hw FSAA.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Is it really? The team developing Lego Pirates claimed their game will run at 60fps in 2d. I'm assuming they're working using the same engine as the Lego SW team. What gives.

Yep, it's 30 fps without slowdown in 2D; it's slows down all over the place in 3D when there's enough action going on.

 

[Celine]

Dannie is saying SSFIV is actually doing 2D AA when the slider is down.
That particular game has a second option in the menu to give a 60fps 2D only mode without AA.

But yeah, it sounds like it's down to the game.

That's good news to me, hope it's true.

 

[Graphics Horse]

AA at 30fps that is.

Or they could just turn on the hw FSAA.

If it's that simple to toggle on and off, might effect vram usage?

 

[Amir0x]

Yep, it's 30 fps without slowdown in 2D; it's slows down all over the place in 3D when there's enough action going on.

Ah, so that's the slowdown I was seeing in those videos.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Ah, so that's the slowdown I was seeing in those videos.

Haven't seen the video, but it only takes some swinging of a lightsaber, with two guys on a screen and some lego coin spitting out to cause it to slow down. I'm a framerate whore =) Dead or Alive isn't even a constant 30 in 3D. I'd have to look at it again but it might not even be 30.

 

[Amir0x]

Haven't seen the video, but it only takes some swinging of a lightsaber, with two guys on a screen and some lego coin spitting out to cause it to slow down. I'm a framerate whore =) Dead or Alive isn't even a constant 30 in 3D. I'd have to look at it again but it might not even be 30.

man what a mess that 3D is. tsc tsc. Truly the slider is the best feature on the 3DS.

 

[Cow Mengde]

I have a question to all those complaining about the graphics in Ridge Racer. Did you buy Samurai Warriors 3D? Which one looks worse? From what I've seen, SW3D has hands down the worse graphics of the 3DS games. It was launched with the system, right?

 

[blu]

If it's that simple to toggle on and off, might effect vram usage?

Well, if you compare it to the 2x 'by hand' approach then yeah, the 2x2 fsaa might prove costlier in vram terms, but as you said, it would be a case-by-case solution anyway, so it's all conditional.

 

[mclem]

man what a mess that 3D is. tsc tsc.

You know, if I wasn't already aware that you were a fine, upstanding pillar of the community, I'd think you were being deliberately provocative.

 

[marc^o^]

I have a question to all those complaining about the graphics in Ridge Racer. Did you buy Samurai Warriors 3D? Which one looks worse? From what I've seen, SW3D has hands down the worse graphics of the 3DS games. It was launched with the system, right?

Gamekult made a video review, they said it is surprisingly good, with huge open worlds, as opposed to previous PSP versions. The reviewer was pleased with the graphics and the gameplay, making good use of the second screen with the map and switchable characters.

 

[Amir0x]

You know, if I wasn't already aware that you were a fine, upstanding pillar of the community, I'd think you were being deliberately provocative.

i'm only externalizing, my friend. I really am glad we have the slider. It seems to me the benefits now are demonstratively so significant that it's worth celebrating the option. We're talking about technical benefits that impact gameplay and visuals in ways extremely significant in some of these 2D/3D disparities.

 

[mclem]

Have any of the release titles actually been consistently reviewed as *bad*? There's some which are a bit mediocre, and some others with pretty strong disparity in review comments. Where's the Sprung which we can all give some equal-opportunity hating to?

 

[Amir0x]

Have any of the release titles actually been consistently reviewed as *bad*? There's some which are a bit mediocre, and some others with pretty strong disparity in review comments. Where's the Sprung which we can all give some equal-opportunity hating to?

Combat Dinosaurs. I don't think anyone will end up seriously liking that one. Plus, there's like twelve Ubisoft crapware ports to be mocked in the upcoming month. Of course, once launch buzz wears off, in a year or two the games will be considered for their actual quality versus the new platform +2.0 scores.

 

[mclem]

i'm only externalizing, my friend. I really am glad we have the slider. It seems to me the benefits now are demonstratively so significant that it's worth celebrating the option. We're talking about technical benefits that impact gameplay and visuals in ways extremely significant in some of these 2D/3D disparities.

Actually, on that note, I'm a little curious about the SF4 approach from a technical standpoint. The slider there appears to solely control the camera separation, with an explicit 'no 3D' option required to turn on the extra graphical features; I wonder why that is?

My best hunch is that some of the extra graphical whatnot requires some initialisation, which would cause issues if it was controlled by the slider and handled on the fly. Out of interest, is that 3D/2D option from the menus accessible during actual gameplay? That would at least suggest whether that theory's correct.

 

[- J - D -]

I have a question to all those complaining about the graphics in Ridge Racer. Did you buy Samurai Warriors 3D? Which one looks worse? From what I've seen, SW3D has hands down the worse graphics of the 3DS games. It was launched with the system, right?

Nah, Samurai Warriors 3D isn't a Ubisoft game. Combat of Giants Dinosaurs looks like ass.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Nah, Samurai Warriors 3D isn't a Ubisoft game. Combat of Giants Dinosaurs looks like ass.

Actually it looks pretty good, but it runs like ass.

 

[- J - D -]

If you say so. I think Samurai Warriors 3DS looks almost like the Wii one, though that game wasn't exactly a showcase.

 

[X05]

man what a mess that 3D is. tsc tsc. Truly the slider is the best feature on the 3DS.

Couldn't agree more

Spoiler

I'm stereo-blind D:

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

i'm only externalizing, my friend. I really am glad we have the slider. It seems to me the benefits now are demonstratively so significant that it's worth celebrating the option. We're talking about technical benefits that impact gameplay and visuals in ways extremely significant in some of these 2D/3D disparities..

Amirox - considering we have the slider I find this unlikely, but do you think we will actually a see a Double/Triple A title that takes advantage of the 3d in ways that really make it worthwhile(aka for jumping etc)

Also here's something to add to the list: darkness, based on sitting there flipping the slider back and forth back and forth, I'm certain the screen is darker, less vibrant colors when 3d is turned on

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

But 3D on even slightly = 30fps?

3D is 3D. A tiny bit of separation and a large bit of separation both require two images to be produced.

Amirox - considering we have the slider I find this unlikely, but do you think we will actually a see a Double/Triple A title that takes advantage of the 3d in ways that really make it worthwhile(aka for jumping etc)

We see major games that take advantage of peripherals not everybody has. That nobody would take advantage of something like this because of a feature people can choose to turn off seems very unlikely.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Amirox - considering we have the slider I find this unlikely, but do you think we will actually a see a Double/Triple A title that takes advantage of the 3d in ways that really make it worthwhile(aka for jumping etc)

Considering the many public comments from Miyamoto about using 3D in that way in a Mario title, and the few pictures we have of Super Mario 3DS that show some relatively complex 3D platforms, I'm guessing Nintendo will be doing just that in that title.

 

[Hero of Legend]

AA and 60fps.

Someone gonna need to whip up a list of games now that provide such substantially superior features in 2D, and the exact list of technical benefits from turning off 3D. Each game seems to approach it differently. Thank god for the slider.

Dead or Alive - 60fps in 2D/30fps in 3D
Street Fighter IV - AA and 60fps in 2D/30fps in 3D
Lego Star Wars - 60fps in 2D/30fps in 2D

i know there's another game too but i forgot what it was

I'm confused, now SSFIV is 30 fps in 3D? I thought it was 60 as well in 3D.

And you mentioned back that Ride Racer is 30 fps correct (in both 2D and 3D?)? Where'd you read that?

 

[Marty Chinn]

I'm confused, now SSFIV is 30 fps in 3D? I thought it was 60 as well in 3D.

And you mentioned back that Ride Racer is 30 fps correct (in both 2D and 3D?)? Where'd you read that?

SF4 is so blatantly not 60 fps in 3D that I wonder how there was a debate to begin with.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

man what a mess that 3D is. tsc tsc. Truly the slider is the best feature on the 3DS.

...tisk.

Unless you are referring to the Tractor Supply Company, in which case, tractor games on the 3DS do not sound very interesting.

 

[kaizoku]

just occured to me that 3D now means no holding the DS like a book unless 3D is simply not included.

quite a departure, some of the vertically held games were my favourites or pushed the system to its lofty heights (brain training, hotel dusk etc).

anyone gonna get nintendogs and cats?

I'm seriously considering it now just to have a second game but also for my lil sister to play on.

 

[AceBandage]

just occured to me that 3D now means no holding the DS like a book unless 3D is simply not included.

quite a departure, some of the vertically held games were my favourites or pushed the system to its lofty heights (brain training, hotel dusk etc).

anyone gonna get nintendogs and cats?

I'm seriously considering it now just to have a second game but also for my lil sister to play on.

Love+ has book mode.

 

[Gravijah]

...tisk.

Unless you are referring to the Tractor Supply Company, in which case, tractor games on the 3DS do not sound very interesting.

Tut tut!

 

[EmCeeGramr]

...tisk.

Unless you are referring to the Tractor Supply Company, in which case, tractor games on the 3DS do not sound very interesting.

http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-farming-simulator-2011/17-3554/

 

[Izayoi]

Hey 3DS owners, what's the best carrying case, do you think?

I want one that can carry the console + the charger, preferably.

 

[Amir0x]

Amirox - considering we have the slider I find this unlikely, but do you think we will actually a see a Double/Triple A title that takes advantage of the 3d in ways that really make it worthwhile(aka for jumping etc)

Also here's something to add to the list: darkness, based on sitting there flipping the slider back and forth back and forth, I'm certain the screen is darker, less vibrant colors when 3d is turned off

That would be truly something original if the screen is darker and less vibrant OFF 3D. I've never seen that be the case in any 3D technology to date; not even the Fujifilm 3D camera. It's the other way around, so this is fascinating to me. Color degradation exists when 3D is turned on.

As to your first question, the answer is "yes." Eventually, one day, there will be a few games that take advantage of 3D in a meaningful way - and I mean truly meaningful, not making a platforming game 1% easier for really mediocre players or flight games 3% more distance-ascertainable or some lousy, completely ignorable bullet point that nobody ever really asked for since it makes little to no difference in skill based play in the real world. I do not think the current level of autostereoscopic 3D with a slider will be the platform to get there, however. A different 3D tech or a more advanced version of this 3D tech will have to do it.

Of course, one day there will be the technology that does this without the drawbacks. Even in some of the basic proofs of concepts, there are ways to utilize different types of 3D for gameplay. There was this one simulated 3D game (completely different effect altogether, though) for the DSi Ware which had you tilting the DS around until you lined up certain shapes and letters, which looked pretty neat and had a real world gameplay benefit. That is to say, the gameplay itself was shaped by this added dimensionality.

Because all 3DS games pretty much have to be completable and as completely playable in 2D as in 3D, it's difficult to imagine any game that will be so significant in 3D that it would be considered a "killer app" - but, i mean, that's just my opinion. We have people who think Pilotwings fits that criteria, as if Pilotwings was difficult before or something and the floodgates of 3D were required to meet its potential. So it all depends on your perspective and what constitutes "worthwhile", particularly considering the negatives one has to contend with to get there in autostereoscopic 3D.

 

[asdad123]

Are you guys putting on screen protectors on the 2 screens? I want the console to last as long as possible.

Any suggestions for any?

 

[Stephen Colbert]

If not to gauge depth and distance, then what do you mean in a meaningful way Amirox? Like a Japanese dating sim that helps you better appreciate your date's assets?