the move to CDs and similar storage changed games fundamentally, but it wasn't even PlayStation's innovation
How did they make any of those "mainstream", when The mainstream console was the PSone that dwarfed N64 in sales, and was sold with a Dualshock controller that as we all can see became the standard controller for all consoles.
I wouldnt't call a win anything relative the N64 which almost shut down nintendo, they abandoned even the controller design...the choice to use the cartridge and such horrible RAM was incredible stupid. Only the CD ROM driver probably would have changed the nintendo fate with the condamn of underpowered hardware release for the rest of their existence.
By the same logic, analog sticks weren't Nintendo's innovation, because Arcade had them long before?
All you wrote I know. You don't know the definition of mainstream. I agree with you on the innovation part, but sadly Nintendo didn't make it mainstream, Sony did.The PlayStation didn't launch with the Dual Shock. The Analog Controller and the Dual Shock, were launched after the Nintendo 64 was launched. They made those features mainstream by creating games that used them well. Same with the rumble pack and the DualShock. Sony saw Nintendo doing that and decided to improve the formula by adding dual sticks and dual motors. It made a lot of sense since PlayStation wanted to make sure Nintendo didn't have an edge.
The thread is about being the most innovative and I think from a hardware perspective Nintendo was more innovative overall. For everything else, Sony dominated and the race wasn't close. We can make several examples of innovative consoles that failed against the competition. Dreamcast vs PS2, PS Vita vs 3DS etc.
Oh, for sure. But if your reason for picking PS is that it had a CD rom, I think a history lesson is in order, is all I'm sayingThe Saturn was designed primarely as a 2D console, sega put that powerfull co-processor way to late in. So only very skillfull first party devs could use that power back then. PS 3D with all the CD benefits was designed form the start.
N64 and it's not even close.
The analogue stick alone was more revolutionary than anything the PlayStation introduced. It basically determined how games would be designed for 3d graphics for decades to come.
The z trigger was also basically the forebear of the modern sticks and triggers primary control scheme, so that was another huge advance.
The rumble pak was another nice little bonus on top.
All these things were genuine innovations. Yes, the move to CDs and similar storage changed games fundamentally, but it wasn't even PlayStation's innovation. That's like saying the PS5 introduced SSDs.
Εven that was something the 3DO did before the PS1. Not counting PCs. And assuming the PS1 came before the Saturn.Well PS used the CD in a meaningfull way which benefited the game worlds, before it was "just" high quality audio and FMVs.
Come on People, the CD-Rom was not PS1's innovation. Not in any way.I'd say PS simply for one fact: the CD-Rom. It was used for virtually all media at one point and its form factor (blu-rays) are still being used today for physical storage of games and movies.
THPS on 64 was great. Levels load immediately.PS1 had both, for my money. The top games on N64 were absolutely outstanding but there was only about a dozen of them, and a lot of ports like THPS weren't worth the plastic they were printed on on N64.
Ps1 controller was just a SNES controller with 2 extra shoulder buttons and nice handles. When they bolted two sticks on it became a rather uncomfortable controller.Considering to this day the main consoles use a variant of the controller layout of the Dual Shock, I'd say the PS1. I'd also say the PS1 for a lot of the audio stuff it had over the N64 but sadly no one really cares about audio, just graphics.
edit: And Nintendo didn't invent the Analog sticks, they get falsely credited it for it.
Below are some of them.What are they?
I counted 7 games I like. Here's 8 from n64:Say what now? I understand preference but don't knock PS1 games as they definitely had quality.
Metal Gear Solid
Tenchu 1 + 2
Final Fantasy 7-9
Parasite Eve 1 + 2
Einhaender
Ridge Racer Type 4
Resident Evil 1-3
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1-2
Wipeout XL
Castlevania Symphony of the Night
Blood Omen
Soul Reaver
Tekken 3
Vagrant Story
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Oddworld Abe's Odyssey + Exodus
Final Fantasy Tactics
Chrono Cross
Silent Hill
Xenogears
The Legend of Dragoon
Twisted Metal 1 -3
Klonoa
Tomb Raider 1- 3
Suikoden 1 -2
Ape Escape
Bushido Blade 1 -2
Medal of Honor + Underground
Mega Man Legends
WWF Smackdown 1 +2
Spider-Man 1 +2
Driver 1 +2
Parappa the Rapper
Hogs of War
R-Tyoe Delta
Mr. Driller
One
Bloody Roar 1+2
Jade Cocoon
The Misadventures of Tron Bonne
Galerians
Tobal 2
Disruptor
Vandal Hearts
Alundra 1 +2
Ehrgeiz
Persona 1 +2
Heart of Darkness
Rival Schools
Tomba 1 +2
Star Ocean 1 +2
Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo
Legend of Legaia
Um Jammer Lammy
Yeah, sure are "weeb" games. Whatever the hell that means.
Are you one of those people who say "HoW Do yOu hOlD It wItHoUt 3 hAnDs?"Rumble Pak is the opposite of innovation. If we're talking about hardware, I don't see where N64 wins? It's arguably one of the worst controllers ever made. If we're talking about games, there were 4-5 on N64 worth mentioning.
DGAF about FF after playing Xenogears, they don't even compare. MGS was good though. I have RE2 for N64. Don't care about that series though.Really? That’s ALL they were missing?
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You’re just going to skip over all 3D Final Fantasy games, mature games like Silent Hill, or even Resident Evil? Metal Gear Solid rings a bell? Tomb Raider? & a thousand more?
I ended only having like 7 games for N64 in the end. Quite disappointed in most of their library vs my tastes. If it weren’t for the Capcom exclusive deal for the Cube, N64 would have been my last Nintendo console
Shoulder buttons were a SNES controller innovation though. The PS1 just added more.The Playstation controller had R1, R2, L1, and L2 buttons. The N64 controller had R1/L1 buttons (whatever they called them), and the Z-Trigger. I'm not sure how the Z-Trigger (which we've never seen in a first-party controller since the N64) is somehow innovative to you. The N64 had three top/back buttons, and the Playstation had four. That seems to be a far better design to me, especially since all four buttons on the Playstation controller are easily accessible, while the Z-Trigger requires your hand to be in a certain spot which doesn't always work with that controller design.
The first Playstation DualShock controller is the foundation for all Playstation and Xbox controllers that have come out since then, as well as the Switch Pro controller. The N64 controller was idiotic. That trident truly makes no sense, and there's a reason nobody ever copied that monstrosity.
Not to mention no moving, mechanical parts. Which also means less noise and things to break.N64 had the faster storage of the game carts ehich acted like RAM which meant no loading times and larger open worlds.
Yes, in a way the N64 was a head of its time. If they had like 1gb carts back then it would of been superior in everyway.Not to mention no moving, mechanical parts. Which also means less noise and things to break.
If only ROMs weren't so expensive back then.... CDs would have had no chance. Arcades still used ROMs and were quite big in size (just look as some Neo-Geo games) but the price was the only thing holding the superior, faster, solid state medium back.
I wouldn't say it was ahead of it's time, the only thing it did was to keep the same tech as the previous cart based consoles and bump the size at the same pace.Yes, in a way the N64 was a head of its time. If they had like 1gb carts back then it would of been superior in everyway.
The casual gamers the PS1 appealed to were a bit different than the casual gamers the Wii appealed to. The PS1 appealed to a hip, young crowd who previously believed gaming was a geeky hobby, like comic books. The CD format allowed for presentations that can appeal to this audience. Cinematic presentations, and licensed music in games like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater were a huge hit with this audience.The popular belief is that the Wii brought gaming to the "non-gaming casuals". But the PS1 did it first.
Are we really suggesting the CD was a PlayStation innovation?
Forgetting the Saturn released days before? Not to mention other more niche consoles with CD-ROM released years before?
The only thing the Saturn innovated was new ways to destroy a fanbase's faith in a company.The Saturn
You are correct.The casual gamers the PS1 appealed to were a bit different than the casual gamers the Wii appealed to. The PS1 appealed to a hip, young crowd who previously believed gaming was a geeky hobby, like comic books. The CD format allowed for presentations that can appeal to this audience. Cinematic presentations, and licensed music in games like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater were a huge hit with this audience.
The Wii, was designed for people who saw modern gaming as too complicated, by offering a simpler, multiplayer focused alternative. Games like Wii Sports were designed to be enjoyed by both seasoned gamers and elders who never even played games before.
These are not PS1's innovations.The playstation. Dual analogue, two shoulder buttons and discs are still used today.
And yet it's still the basis for controllers since then *shrugs*Ps1 controller was just a SNES controller with 2 extra shoulder buttons and nice handles. When they bolted two sticks on it became a rather uncomfortable controller.
For Sony.And yet it's still the basis for controllers since then *shrugs*
Same way people credit Nintendo for Analog sticks and when asked "well it's because they made it popular and did it right", I'd imagine same logic is used here.Come on People, the CD-Rom was not PS1's innovation. Not in any way.
Was the PS1 your first game system or something? So many are posting this, what a weird thread.
MS's original design failed (though was creative) and from the 360 onwards they used the PS layout but with swapped Dpad and Left Stick placement, hey, how about Nintendo and their Pro controllers, which also use the same design.For Sony.
Microsoft design is much more comfortable IMO.
Sure, but it's still not a PS innovation. Innovation means something new, it had been done before. Sony just did it better.The casual gamers the PS1 appealed to were a bit different than the casual gamers the Wii appealed to. The PS1 appealed to a hip, young crowd who previously believed gaming was a geeky hobby, like comic books. The CD format allowed for presentations that can appeal to this audience. Cinematic presentations, and licensed music in games like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater were a huge hit with this audience.
The Wii, was designed for people who saw modern gaming as too complicated, by offering a simpler, multiplayer focused alternative. Games like Wii Sports were designed to be enjoyed by both seasoned gamers and elders who never even played games before.
But as I said, the PlayStation was arguably the first console to do the format proper justice. The problem with something like the Sega-CD for example, was that the Genesis didn't have the hardware necessary to take advantage of the format in any meaningful way. Hence the abundance of crappy FMV games. But the PlayStation was powerful enough to use the CD format in much more interesting and exciting ways.
Innovation doesn't mean invention. You can use something that's been done before, and use it in a new way. Which is what the PlayStation and Nintendo 64 did with CD and the analog stick. Both have existed before, but Sony and Nintendo used them in new and practical ways.Sure, but it's still not a PS innovation. Innovation means something new, it had been done before. Sony just did it better.
Say what now? I understand preference but don't knock PS1 games as they definitely had quality.
Metal Gear Solid
Tenchu 1 + 2
Final Fantasy 7-9
Parasite Eve 1 + 2
Einhaender
Ridge Racer Type 4
Resident Evil 1-3
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1-2
Wipeout XL
Castlevania Symphony of the Night
Blood Omen
Soul Reaver
Tekken 3
Vagrant Story
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Oddworld Abe's Odyssey + Exodus
Final Fantasy Tactics
Chrono Cross
Silent Hill
Xenogears
The Legend of Dragoon
Twisted Metal 1 -3
Klonoa
Tomb Raider 1- 3
Suikoden 1 -2
Ape Escape
Bushido Blade 1 -2
Medal of Honor + Underground
Mega Man Legends
WWF Smackdown 1 +2
Spider-Man 1 +2
Driver 1 +2
Parappa the Rapper
Hogs of War
R-Tyoe Delta
Mr. Driller
One
Bloody Roar 1+2
Jade Cocoon
The Misadventures of Tron Bonne
Galerians
Tobal 2
Disruptor
Vandal Hearts
Alundra 1 +2
Ehrgeiz
Persona 1 +2
Heart of Darkness
Rival Schools
Tomba 1 +2
Star Ocean 1 +2
Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo
Legend of Legaia
Um Jammer Lammy
Yeah, sure are "weeb" games. Whatever the hell that means.
How so? 2 sticks? Xbox and GC had the asymmetrical layout that's now standard.And yet it's still the basis for controllers since then *shrugs*
Analogs, triggers and rumble existed in consoles or computers since the 70s or 80s. PlayStation was the first console to sell over 100M console while N64 sold a third of that, so what became mainstream and was a big hit that influenced future ones was PlayStation, not N64.From a hardware perspective, Nintendo made analog sticks, triggers and rumble mainstream. We're still using those nowadays. This is a win for the N64.
But I think PlayStation really made games mainstream and was able to kill the idea they were for kids.
Overall, I would say they were both important in shaping today's gaming landscape, though I'd give PS the edge considering how many series still alive today were born there
Ergonomic design and shape logic and with how gamers hold their controllers these days. The button placement since PS1 has pretty much remained unchanged outside of swaps, if you ask someone to mimick holding a controller they'll show their hands in the current clam hold which was popularised from the Dual Shock design.How so?
PS1 had the DualShock controller with two sticks & four shoulder buttons (two of which are now triggers). All Xbox did was swap the position of the stick. The general shape that has been the standard started with DualShock. The original controller introduced by Xbox was a monstrosity and notice how the only thing that Xbox did differently (the black/white buttons) are no longer being used, even by them.How so? 2 sticks? Xbox and GC had the asymmetrical layout that's now standard.
N64 confirm button is where the A button is on Xbox, and the X button on PS, which is now the standard confirm button.
The CD was widely and properly used by older consoles before the Playstation.Same way people credit Nintendo for Analog sticks and when asked "well it's because they made it popular and did it right", I'd imagine same logic is used here.
I wouldn't call the 3DO or the original Saturn popular. They didn't stick around long for a reason.The CD was widely and properly used by older consoles before the Playstation.
I don't remember a single console game using the analog stick in such way as Mario 64. Analog controls isn't just a hardware thing, software also has to support it and the N64 was the first in that sense.
The Playstation did nothing with CDs the 3DO didn't do before it.
Fixed.The button placement since SNES has pretty much remained unchanged outside of swaps
Its not about popularity, its about innovation. You just can't credit the PS1 for the CDs in any scenario. But crediting the N64 for the analog seems more reasonable.I wouldn't call the 3DO or the original Saturn popular. They didn't stick around long for a reason.
Ergonomic design and shape logic and with how gamers hold their controllers these days. The button placement since PS1 has pretty much remained unchanged outside of swaps, if you ask someone to mimick holding a controller they'll show their hands in the current clam hold which was popularised from the Dual Shock design.
So the SNES made modern controllers then. Sony just bolted two sticks on the bottom of the controller because they had to do something regarding the 64.PS1 had the DualShock controller with two sticks & four shoulder buttons (two of which are now triggers). All Xbox did was swap the position of the stick. The general shape that has been the standard started with DualShock. The original controller introduced by Xbox was a monstrosity and notice how the only thing that Xbox did differently (the black/white buttons) are no longer being used, even by them.
This part of your post shows how far you are reaching lol
"N64 confirm button is where the A button is on Xbox, and the X button on PS, which is now the standard confirm button."