Father_Brain
Banned
Not to mention that said large-scale games cost considerably more to develop than their GC counterparts, and would thus need to sell significantly better in order to turn even GC-level software profits.
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Nintendo lowers forecast from ¥55B profit to ¥25B loss [3DS 18M->13.5; WiiU 9M->2.8M]
- Thread starter mackaveli
- Start date
Not to mention that said large-scale games cost considerably more to develop than their GC counterparts, and would thus need to sell significantly better in order to turn even GC-level software profits.
Halting or not greenlighting any game more wouldn't result in a Gamecube-like catalog. If the Wii U catalog would end up similar to Gamecube's there wouldn't be any problem, but what all of you are suggesting is a very, very poor catalog. What is it? The first year games, Mario Kart, Smash, Zelda and four or five games more?
I don't disagree that a Wii U Zelda will get media attention; but I don't think Zelda is a strong enough franchise to get people to go out and buy a dead system. I mean, Skyward Sword barely pushed 4 million on a platform that had sold 90+ million by the time it released. And yeah, a lot of people had moved on from Wii by that point, but the fact remains that Nintendo couldn't even sell a Zelda game to a significant number of people who already had the system to play it on sitting in their homes.
Honestly, nothing is going to get more attention for Nintendo than a brand new, AAA IP aimed at gamers at this point. Their staple franchises have been milked dry; none of them feel new anymore.
TwilightPrincess
Member
3d world isn´t what the Wii U needed @ this time (Mario 64 successor). And i think nintendo should be very carefully, when it comes to their next console. dumping the Wii u too soon would be really bad for their image too. But something like releasing zelda for WiiU and the next console simultaniously wouldn´t bother me and it worked out just fine with TP..
shinra-bansho
Member
Whatever's been announced already. It doesn't matter how poor the Wii U's catalog ends up. It's a failed project and will continue to be a failed project. There's no point sending software out to die on it unnecessarily.
Neff
Member
It won't do it by itself, but it's the kind of software Nintendo needs to start getting money out of Wii U.
Hardware design and production is incredibly expensive, but a necessary piece of Nintendo's business model. They've sunk billions into Wii U, and it hasn't paid off yet. And honestly, they've barely tried, placing way too much faith in stunningly unsuccessful branding loyalty, Mario, and not much else. Software production, relatively speaking, is much, much cheaper than hardware r&d. And when it works, it's massively profitable. It's how Nintendo makes its dough. It makes much more sense for Nintendo to at least attempt to revive a costly project and broaden its footprint with must have software, vs the NeoGAF proposition of bottling software projects and throwing more billions at new hardware and possibly alienating the fanbase that they do have. Nintendo know what they have to do and have always known, they just haven't done a very good job of it yet, riding a wave of complacency and hubris that's wiped out and left them dry. But at least now reality is staring them in the face.
If all we're talking about is another cheap Nintendo designed handheld, then they might as well shut it down and go third party. It's now or never, they have to really nail this next platform.
So just like every other Nintendo handheld? Should Nintendo have gone third party when they launched the Game Boy, the Game Boy Advance or the DS?
There's no point of making a high-end and more expensive handheld, especially when they have to compete with smartphones, something everyone has. What makes you think they would have sold more if the 3DS had better specs (and possibly a bigger price/lower profit)?
Dictator93
Member
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
Because beefed-up dedicated handhelds like the Vita and Game Gear sell gangbusters.
"Nailing it" means creating something affordable and stylish, and marketing it well - not starting another arms race they can't win. They need to carve out a new niche, and that niche certainly isn't in the high end space. $150 or less at launch is where it's at, and you don't get best in class performance and top of the line ultra high resolution displays at that price point.
Pancakes R Us
Member
This last point cannot be stated enough. Yes, there are other publishers within the industry that release new versions of games each year, but Nintendo isn't one of them (since the year Mario Parties stopped, anyway). And even though Nintendo isn't doing this, it feels like they are given the number of mainline Marios we've receivoed over the last few years. I used to buy them all but just stopped after I bought NSMB 2 and felt like it was too much of the same. Yet more Mario/Kart/Smash/Zelda is only going to satiate the crazy Nintendo fans. It'll also lead to the drop off of people that thought they were Nitendo crazies because they've just become disillusioned by the same titles over and over. This just isn't going to cut it anymore for Nintendo.
I'm not asking for the moon here. I'm talking about a handheld targeting late 2015 and Wii U level graphics. I was told above the system would be too cheap for that. If that's true, I don't think they can compete. To be 100% honest, I'm not sure they can compete with hardware no matter what they do. It's not an easy proposition.
Anyway, what I'm proposing they do is a handheld powerful enough to act as a hybrid. The reverse of the Wii U. The tablet/handheld can also transmit to the TV. They consolidate to one platform and try to make a stand for the market they have left.
Aquamarine
Member
The Wii U has lost money for Nintendo despite their premiere IP from last gen getting on the system (Wii Sports + Wii Fit + Wii Party U + Donkey Kong Country + 2D Mario + 3D Mario + the promise of Mario Kart + the promise of Zelda U + the promise of Smash Bros.)
What are the solutions to this dilemma that involve propping up the Wii U?
1) Bite the bullet on a major price cut? Hell no. Nintendo is already losing money with every Wii U sold...this is significantly cutting into their profit margins. At this stage they can't afford to significantly loss-lead with the console. And, they already slashed prices by $50 in key territories a few months ago.
2) More major games? More major games means more greenlit projects which means more overhead which means more 100+ person teams...and yet, what is Nintendo going to get out of it? MAYBE the Wii U will have a slight recovery? MAYBE it will end up somewhat like the GameCube? Or, Nintendo could use all that time and money in starting with something fresh, something properly designed and attuned to the modern market...instead of pursuing mediocrity.
3) Keep the console alive "for the sake of the fans" into 2016 or 2017? Not practical. Investors are irate NOW. Investors want change NOW. We are sick and tired of -35 billion JPY operating losses and the third consecutive year of no performance-based dividends. Nintendo needs to make money in their core business NOW and the avenue that will allow the company to do that while taking into account their unique corporate culture and situation in the industry...should be achieved as soon as possible. The Wii U is not that avenue. Also, the 3DS isn't getting any younger. Pretty soon we're going to need a successor to take over the reigns.
4) Discontinue it slowly? This is the best option. Nintendo is knee-deep into its current Wii U projects (Mario Kart 8, Zelda U, Smash Bros. U, Hyrule Warriors, etc.) To immediately cancel those makes less business sense than finishing them up, releasing them at retail and pray they end up mitigating some of the losses the hardware generates.
The next handheld will probably be a Vita+ in terms of power, the next step in the Nintendo handheld improvements. They need a cheap device to compete, as they have always done (GBA at $99 or DS at $149 speak for themselves).
A Wii U-power like handheld which can stream to the TV should stream at least at 720p, and it wouldn't be cheap. Nobody want a $250 handheld again. It'd be a very expensive handheld or a very low-powered console. Worst of both worlds.
It would be expensive, and there won't be a hybrid device. Really. It's a fucking stupid idea, and you'll most likely come to the same conclusion once you actually start thinking about it.
Yes, "Wii U quality" is certainly possible on a cheap handheld - at 360p. But 360p isn't enough for a hybrid, because it would look like rotten balls on your HDTV set. Wii U quality in 720p - 1080p on a $150 handheld isn't going to happen anytime soon.
The solution is to not compete in the hardware space. At all. Ever. With anyone. It doesn't work. It will never work. There is no point.
Then they need to shut it down and go third party.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
You forgot option 5.
5. Release the successor to the Wii U in 2015, make all 2015 Wii U games cross generation releases and work with third parties in the creation of the unit to ensure full support from day zero like Sony and MS. End Kyoto's policy of splendid isolation.
Return of the Third Pillar
The way I see it, Nintendo's biggest problem by far is their marketing. It's an even bigger issue than the lack of 3rd parties supporting their platform(s). The company has relied way too much on a "build it and they will come" philosophy and selling products via word of mouth. Nintendo has failed to adequately communicate to the public their design philosophy, how its products are superior to others (and thus, worthy of a premium price), and why any perceived flaws are irrelevant.
Unless Nintendo creates another Wii-like phenomenon, there's no point in releasing a new platform and accompanying games unless you're willing to hammer into the public's skulls why they should buy them. If I could give the Iwata and the Board of Directors any advice, it would be to really think about Nintendo is all about as a company & use whatever life remains in the Wii U and 3DS to create an overall marketing strategy that
a) allows them to accurately gauge the size of their audience.
b) starts to resonate with the general public even if it doesn't translate into a massive upswing in sales.
Unless Nintendo creates another Wii-like phenomenon, there's no point in releasing a new platform and accompanying games unless you're willing to hammer into the public's skulls why they should buy them. If I could give the Iwata and the Board of Directors any advice, it would be to really think about Nintendo is all about as a company & use whatever life remains in the Wii U and 3DS to create an overall marketing strategy that
a) allows them to accurately gauge the size of their audience.
b) starts to resonate with the general public even if it doesn't translate into a massive upswing in sales.
No!
Because there is a huge ass market the PS4 doesn't serve, and the Xbone doesn't serve, and the iPad doesn't serve. A market potentially bigger than all of them combined. That's the market Nintendo needs to serve, because nobody else can.
Working with third parties on the hardware doesn't change anything. They still have serious branding and demographic issues. If those aren't also addressed, the hardware is irrelevant.
Can you elaborate? You just described a market that doesn't exist.
For marketing to be effective, you have to have a product that the general public sees a use for. If not, you're basically just arguing the best shade of lipstick to put on a pig.
A $300 console with no 3rd party support that's barely more powerful than last gen and featuring a tablet controller that nobody could give a shit about if they tried is not something the public sees a use for.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Do you believe they know how to? What makes you believe it? If you say "Wii and DS," what made them forget how to do it with Wii U and 3DS?
I'm serious. I see a lot of blind faith in Nintendo because they got it right before. But the same Nintendo has also repeatedly gotten it incredibly wrong before. If Nintendo could be counted on to crank out successes, they wouldn't have made the Wii U, and frankly they wouldn't have made the 3DS.
digoutyoursoul
Member
StarFox, F-Zero and Metroid is one positive step forward. I agree with those stating about the likes of Mario being milked dry, it would be great to see some new ip, maybe a western style RPG or maybe working with another third party to create something.
Wii U was the first console released in the current generation. Much like Xbox 360, it came out one year before the competition.
Did Microsoft give up on 360 because the Wii and PS3 came along? No. They continued on their path and ultimately did ok.
Nintendo would be stupid to abandon the Wii U now. The generation has quite literally just begun. They have plenty of time to sell more Wii U systems. Just as Microsoft and Sony have plenty of time to fuck up with their consoles and/or succeed with them.
Did Microsoft give up on 360 because the Wii and PS3 came along? No. They continued on their path and ultimately did ok.
Nintendo would be stupid to abandon the Wii U now. The generation has quite literally just begun. They have plenty of time to sell more Wii U systems. Just as Microsoft and Sony have plenty of time to fuck up with their consoles and/or succeed with them.
It does exist.
I don't think they know, and I agree, 3DS and Wii U are proof they don't. But they did manage to get closer than anybody else more than once.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Many people don't see it as a current gen machine. I don't personally either.
Yet you can't elaborate? Who and where is this mystery market?
H_Prestige
Banned
Yup. Either this or third party or the only viable options for Nintendo if they want to continue making home console games.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Nintendo's problem is their god awful marketing.
Also anyone still expecting the hybrid? That would be so expensive.
They can't release a console next year, this takes tons of time, it won't happen.
Also they would need a change of architecture and dropping BC too.
Also anyone still expecting the hybrid? That would be so expensive.
They can't release a console next year, this takes tons of time, it won't happen.
Also they would need a change of architecture and dropping BC too.
shinra-bansho
Member
Presumably it's the "family entertainment" /party game market that's being referred to.
It's Nintendo's traditional strength.
But there's no reason the XB1, or the PS4, or the iPad can't serve this market. During the PS2 and PS1 eras, they were the mainstream/family console. Late in the seventh gen, someone would probably go get their family an 360 with Kinect.
Meanwhile, just a heads up.
It's Nintendo's traditional strength.
But there's no reason the XB1, or the PS4, or the iPad can't serve this market. During the PS2 and PS1 eras, they were the mainstream/family console. Late in the seventh gen, someone would probably go get their family an 360 with Kinect.
Meanwhile, just a heads up.
Specious comparison. The 360 has sold over 80 million units and ended up in 1st place in the US and UK. It's, what, the 5th best selling game console of all time worldwide (behind only the Playstations and the Wii)? It's also sold something like 700 million software units. "OK" is a gross understatement.
And you're comparing the 360 to the Wii U? Really? A console which won't even reach 20 million unless there's a huge turnaround? A console that major retailers are already dropping? A console that will probably have fewer than 100 retail games released for it by the end of its lifetime?
The Wii U is not the next GameCube. It's the next Saturn. It is a catastrophic fall from grace almost without precedent in this industry.
Those are the same people who didn't think the Wii was a "current gen" machine. Look up what that sold.
Frankly, Nintendo doesn't need you, and speaking personally as a Wii U owner who has really enjoyed the system and many of its games? I don't want you. Go away and play your AAA brown and grey games. Good riddance to all the bad rubbish. Take your worthless opinions of what they should do along with you. You wouldn't buy their system regardless of what it was capable of in the first place.
This is what makes the whole business of what Nintendo should or shouldn't do so maddening. Most of the people who want them to change don't want them around in the first place because they represent everything they don't want gaming to be anymore. They want the kids and families to go away so they can sit on their high horses playing Call of Duty and The Last of Us while proclaiming their maturity.
The Xbox 360 (and PS3) had something that the Wii U could never hope to count on:
3rd Party support.
Despite how slow-going the first year of those platforms were, MS and Sony could count on getting a steady stream of content when 3rd parties ramped up their software. And that's exactly what happened.
Not so for the Wii U. Not only is the Wii U getting the best Nintendo games it's going to get already, but the dismal 3rd party support it's getting now is only going to get worse from here on out.
The Wii U has likely already had its best year, in regards to software.
Actually, Nintendo does need us. Needs us desperately, in fact.
H_Prestige
Banned
If they use a similar APU as found in the ps4 and xbone, would it really take much time? Honest question, I'm no hardware engineer. Just slap some DDR4 in there and BAM, you got a console that can be part of the same software ecosystem as the other two.
And both last generation and this new one have shown that most consumers don't give a crap about BC. If people aren't bemoaning the loss of ps3 and 360 BC, then I can assure you that dropping Wii U BC won't register on the radar at all.
Well, hey, we don't need the Wii U. But Nintendo certainly needs to expand their market, and expand it fast, or their losses will go from painful to lethal in a hurry.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
Looks like the news had devastating effects on Nintendo's stock. Their market cap is below that of Sony's again.
Fourth Storm
Member
If they release a real tablet next year with Vita+ graphics, Wii U would quickly become irrelevant. Release Zelda for Wii U around the same time and let it be the console's swan song.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
I think you're all missing the biggest problem here.
Third parties HATE Nintendo.
It's not "oh, we don't want to work with them". EA, Activision, Capcom, you name it. They all want Nintendo out of the hardware industry.
Third parties HATE Nintendo.
It's not "oh, we don't want to work with them". EA, Activision, Capcom, you name it. They all want Nintendo out of the hardware industry.
Want some vodka with that kool-aid you're drinkin?
No. In general, a company releases a product and then through effective marketing convinces the public why it's 'useful' or worthy of purpose and why disadvantages (a), (b), and (c) don't matter. If the product was inherently useful and its strengths were blatantly obvious to the consumer, the company wouldn't need to effectively market it. They could come up with just about any sort advertising campaign and the product would sell.
Nintendo's biggest problem is that they don't consistently highlight the strengths of the company & its products. A simple example would be how they handled Wii Music in the US. When they debuted it they failed to adequately explain the title and at one point highlighted its multiplayer, quite literally the worst aspect of the game. I think they did this at E3 (which I think resulted in a post conference do-over) and again on at least one national morning talk show. The fact that Nintendo demoed a music title by having people get together and create 'music' that ranged from awful to almost listenable shows that they don't know what they're doing when it comes to marketing.
This is most likely bullshit, but I thought I'd put this in the thread for the sake of discussion. What's everyone's opinion on the specs behind this rumor (not the rumor itself)?
http://www.nintendonews.com/2014/01/nintendo-fusion-could-be-nintendos-next-gen-hardware-name/
http://www.nintendonews.com/2014/01/nintendo-fusion-could-be-nintendos-next-gen-hardware-name/
That "rumor" reads like a Nintendo fan's daydream, along the lines of people who expect Nintendo to announce a new Startropics, a new F-Zero and a Pokemon MMO each year at E3.
I wouldn't give it much credence, if any.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
They would have nothing ready for the next consle, add no BC and you have something as bad if not worse than the first 9 moths of the Wii U.
Nintendo isn't going 3rd party, but I fear that all this negative talk about them might br making people not buy the Wii U or whatever Nintendo.
I really hope Nintendo announces some Wii U games soon so people stop thinking they are dropping it.
Yeah, so why not just go for broke, right?
No, they don't. Not releasing any software for the next two years is the worst thing they could possibly do. There's a large difference between releasing break even products, and living off your reserves for two years with no income.
Then there's the mindshare aspect. People forgot all about nintendo and Wii because they didn't release shit for Wii towards the ends of it's life, so people moved on to other hardware or activities. By the time Wii U came out, nintendo's casual audience was no longer paying attention. Even if they aren't going to sell millions of units of software, it's worth it to placate current owners and keep them interested, and keep a slow trickle of new ninendo users coming.
Yeah I agree, lack of BC would hurt them more, and Nintendo has a great back catalog to draw from. They can use emulation, just check how good the Dolphin emulator is. With their own knowledge of the systems it should be even better. They need to fix their online system too. Shove as many games for download on to the eshop.
I personally think they should just ride out this cycle and support WiiU as best they can. With the before mentioned emulation they can use it to strengthen their game catalog for the next system.
BoboBrazil
Member
Iwata is all about trying to follow the next fad to make a quick buck, so look for him to try to do vr in their next console.
Here's the new virtual boy and powerglove combo
Here's the new virtual boy and powerglove combo