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[Jorok Goldblade]

I saw a bunch of people tossing around no BC as a deal breaker.

... for who? All those people not buying a Wii U? If they wanted the games, they'd have a Wii U, it's that simple.

If anything, this would be the perfect time to abandon hardware backwards compatibility, while the userbase is at a low point.

So many statements in this thread not making sense.

With the library as small as it is, and the install base also pretty small, they could take a key selection of Wii U must-haves and go the "HD remake" route.

If they get a unified account system in place, they could offer a cheap (or free) download to Wii U owners who bought the originals for the "Upgraded" versions, as a form of ambassador program.

Speaking of which, if they do need to kill the Wii U early, they'll have to find some form of Ambassador Program.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The idea of Bayonetta and Metroid being heavy hitters is laughable.
Zelda isn't a heavy hitter relative to what's already been released.
Donkey Kong isn't a heavy hitter relative to what's already been released. If two Mario platformers haven't done anything then DKTF is doing nothing.
Mario Galaxy 3 doesn't even exist.

Wii Fit was a heavy hitter and it fizzled. Wii Party was a heavy hitter and it fizzled.
They've released both a 2D and 3D Mario.

The only major franchises that remain are Mario Kart and Smash Bros. They're already announced. They'll release some time this year.

The potential first party software slate is only going to go downhill in terms of sales potential.

As for third parties, I assume Ubisoft finally pulls support with everything but Just Dance this year. And even Acti-Blizz is probably considering no COD.

EDIT: I just checked; Lego Marvel sold more on the XB1 and PS4 than on the Wii U and JD2014 sold more on the XB1 in 2013 NPD, which is frankly pretty damning in terms of greenlighting even these family friendly projects for the Wii U.

 

[Sneds]

The idea of Bayonetta and Metroid being heavy hitters is laughable.
Zelda isn't a heavy hitter relative to what's already been released.
Donkey Kong isn't a heavy hitter relative to what's already been released. If two Mario platformers haven't done anything then DKTF is doing nothing.
Mario Galaxy 3 doesn't even exist.

Wii Fit was a heavy hitter and it fizzled. Wii Party was a heavy hitter and it fizzled.
They've released both a 2D and 3D Mario.

The only major franchises that remain are Mario Kart and Smash Bros. They're already announced. They'll release some time this year.

The potential software slate is only going to go downhill.

I agree with all of the above.

But, I think that once all of those games are released there will be a decent 'critical mass' of first party titles. So while, individually, no title will push Wii U sales, collectively they might help... a bit.

 

[Wickerbasket]

And I'm sure the handful of games made usable for it that wouldn't justify the expense of it would be fantastic.

So it'd be like the Wii U pad in that regard.

Although I think specific games being tailored towards VR is more likely if the experience proves unique enough.

 

[outunderthestars]

I agree with all of the above.

But, I think that once all of those games are released there will be a decent 'critical mass' of first party titles. So while, individually, no title will push Wii U sales, collectively they might help... a bit.

Does "a bit" even matter at this point?

 

[Sneds]

Does "a bit" even matter at this point?

I just think Nintendo need to try and lose as little money on the Wii U as they can. In that sense, every little helps.

 

[outunderthestars]

I just think Nintendo need to try and lose as little money on the Wii U as they can. In that sense, every little helps.

I look at it the other way: Nintendo needs to maintain as much market share as they can. If that means burning through their cash reserves then so be it. I don't think they can just ride out this generation and hope the next system isn't a dud.

 

[soviet prince]

the prob need to start working on a ps4 par console

 

[Sneds]

I look at it the other way: Nintendo needs to maintain as much market share as they can. If that means burning through their cash reserves then so be it. I don't think they can just ride out this generation and hope the next system isn't a did.

You may well be right. I'm at a loss though as to what Nintendo could do to make a significant bump in Wii U sales.

The only thing I can think of is to buy up some studios and start putting out some new, unexpected titles that appeal to a diverse audience.

 

[outunderthestars]

You may well be right. I'm at a loss though as to what Nintendo could do to make a significant bump in Wii U sales.

The only thing I can think of is to buy up some studios and start putting out some new, unexpected titles that appeal to a diverse audience.

I think everyone is at a loss. It has some great games but the public is simply not interested in the system. I honestly wonder if they would be better off slashing the price on existing inventory, finishing all of this year's relesses, then launching a new platform for Xmas 2015.

 

[Talamius]

I look at it the other way: Nintendo needs to maintain as much market share as they can. If that means burning through their cash reserves then so be it. I don't think they can just ride out this generation and hope the next system isn't a did.

Agreed. Even though it would eat a chunk out of the cash reserves it has to be done. Drop to 199, bundle 3d world and push eShop HARD. Cut bait on the system now and you'll alienate the few million that did buy it. Market share is everything at this point.

 

[Sectorseven]

Agreed. Even though it would eat a chunk out of the cash reserves it has to be done. Drop to 199, bundle 3d world and push eShop HARD. Cut bait on the system now and you'll alienate the few million that did buy it. Market share is everything at this point.

The only way for them to get out of this with some dignity is on the publisher side.

Fund third party ports themselves and cut royalties to get games on the system.

It won't cost them as much as devaluing their brand in the marketplace would.

 

[A_Gorilla]

Listening to both sides of the arguments here regarding what Nintendo should do it really seems like they are in a Catch 22:

Either they stay the course or at least continue to support the Wii U for a couple more years, likely losing them even more money, and try again next gen.

Or, they dump they Wii U by 2015 and start fresh with a new handheld/console/hybrid/something, in which case they piss off fans and have it potentially back fire on them just it did with Sega and the whole 32x debacle.

Or a 3rd option, they quit hardware and go 3rd party on other consoles/tablets/smartphones, in which case they may well become the next Sega.

I really don't see any decision Nintendo can make right now that doesn't carry a massive amount of risk.

 

[teh_pwn]

Those are the same people who didn't think the Wii was a "current gen" machine. Look up what that sold.

Frankly, Nintendo doesn't need you, and speaking personally as a Wii U owner who has really enjoyed the system and many of its games? I don't want you. Go away and play your AAA brown and grey games. Good riddance to all the bad rubbish. Take your worthless opinions of what they should do along with you. You wouldn't buy their system regardless of what it was capable of in the first place.

This is what makes the whole business of what Nintendo should or shouldn't do so maddening. Most of the people who want them to change don't want them around in the first place because they represent everything they don't want gaming to be anymore. They want the kids and families to go away so they can sit on their high horses playing Call of Duty and The Last of Us while proclaiming their maturity.

That's incorrect. If Nintendo offered a Wii U with half of the capability of PS4 in 2012 with x86 architecture without the pad as manadtory, and consequently 3rd party ports a plenty (for a time the best ones on consoles), and 1st party games like Mario Kart, Zelda, and Smash, I would have pre-ordered.

That's why many of us haven't bought a Wii U. We're a large part of the market in which every opinion matters. And the market has spoken...it generally does not want a Wii U.

Listening to both sides of the arguments here regarding what Nintendo should do it really seems like they are in a Catch 22:

Either they stay the course or at least continue to support the Wii U for a couple more years, likely losing them even more money, and try again next gen.

Or, they dump they Wii U by 2015 and start fresh with a new handheld/console/hybrid/something, in which case they piss off fans and have it potentially back fire on them just it did with Sega and the whole 32x debacle.

Or a 3rd option, they quit hardware and go 3rd party on other consoles/tablets/smartphones, in which case they may well become the next Sega.

I really don't see any decision Nintendo can make right now that doesn't carry a massive amount of risk.

They need to switch strategies immediately because they're bleeding both cash and mindshare with Wii U. Whether or not they make another console for as early as H1 2015, or 3rd party, or refocus on 3DS and enter mobile, it needs to happen fast. The COGS of the Wii U and logistics at the market-share they have has too much overhead to be a viable business.

 

[outunderthestars]

The only way for them to get out of this with some dignity is on the publisher side.

Fund third party ports themselves and cut royalties to get games on the system.

It won't cost them as much as devaluing their brand in the marketplace would.

It would cost an absurd amount to find third parties to make an entire new engine just to port their PS4/XB1 games to the Wii U, where they are sure to die. I just don't see what the upside is for developers in that scenario.

 

[Drakeon]

I think everyone is at a loss. It has some great games but the public is simply not interested in the system. I honestly wonder if they would be better off slashing the price on existing inventory, finishing all of this year's relesses, then launching a new platform for Xmas 2015.

Do you honestly think they can get a platform out for 2015? They've probably started R&D on their next system, but I am highly skeptical they could get any system out (and have games ready for it) prior to Fall 2016.

I still say Nintendo's best bet is a hybrid handheld/console. But I could be completely off base, I'd think it'd be a hit in japan where mobile is still all the rage though. Bill it as a "third pillar" much like the original DS was billed as a third pillar, but really, it's a test balloon to get out of the console business entirely and to get every single studio they have to focus development all on the same platform. You get that, and it's highly likely you avoid any further gaming droughts.

 

[PotionBleue]

EDIT: I just checked; Lego Marvel sold more on the XB1 and PS4 than on the Wii U and JD2014 sold more on the XB1 in 2013 NPD, which is frankly pretty damning in terms of greenlighting even these family friendly projects for the Wii U.

Just Dance sells low numbers on everything that isn't the Wii.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Rayman Legends, Just Dance 2014 or Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed had the best attach rate on Wii U (besides PC).

 

[Shiggy]

Just Dance sells low numbers on everything that isn't the Wii.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Rayman Legends, Just Dance 2014 or Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed had the best attach rate on Wii U (besides PC).

Who cares about attach rates when Wii U hardware sales are about as low as it can get?

 

[tehrik-e-insaaf]

To add a crazy rumor to this thread - I heard some buzz about Softbank approaching Nintendo to buy the 5% Nintendo is planning to buy-back itself - and being turned down.

Slim chance of it happening, but if it did, it would be interesting b/c one of the hold-ups that Iwata had with launching a tablet or phone in the investor Q&A was that Nintendo didn't really have any mobile partnerships and implicitly suggesting that it would make it hard to enter a really crowded space like that.

With Softbank ready to acquire T-Mobile and merge it with Sprint, combined with their already strong presence in Japan - it would give Nintendo instant and priority access to 100 million subscribers in the US, and 30 million subscribers in Japan. Softbank is apparently focused on building a mobile empire over the next 5 years so if their financing plans come through after T-Mobile and they can turn it around - they should keep making acquisitions into markets that Nintendo could then have a presence in.

So anyways, not happening, but interesting to consider the possibilities. It's an exciting time to be on the M&A circuit

In case anyone is interested, Softbank most recently failed at acquiring Universal - and they own stakes in Yahoo Japan, GungHo, UStream, and SuperCell

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/b...-softbanks-lucrative-offer-for-universal.html

 

[Log4Girlz]

To add a crazy rumor to this thread - I heard some buzz about Softbank approaching Nintendo to buy the 5% Nintendo is planning to buy-back itself - and being turned down.

Slim chance of it happening, but if it did, it would be interesting b/c one of the hold-ups that Iwata had with launching a tablet or phone in the investor Q&A was that Nintendo didn't really have any mobile partnerships and implicitly suggesting that it would make it hard to enter a really crowded space like that.

With Softbank ready to acquire T-Mobile and merge it with Sprint, combined with their already strong presence in Japan - it would give Nintendo instant and priority access to 100 million subscribers in the US, and 30 million subscribers in Japan. Softbank is apparently focused on building a mobile empire over the next 5 years so if their financing plans come through after T-Mobile and they can turn it around - they should keep making acquisitions into markets that Nintendo could then have a presence in.

So anyways, not happening, but interesting to consider the possibilities. It's an exciting time to be on the M&A circuit

In case anyone is interested, Softbank most recently failed at acquiring Universal - and they own stakes in Yahoo Japan, GungHo, UStream, and SuperCell

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/b...-softbanks-lucrative-offer-for-universal.html

Not going into mobile with a strong device is such a huge mistake.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Just Dance sells low numbers on everything that isn't the Wii.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Rayman Legends, Just Dance 2014 or Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed had the best attach rate on Wii U (besides PC).

Rayman Legends and Sonic All-Stars aren't on the other platforms.

And through 2013 NPD, the XB1 still had a lower installed base than the Wii U (although I think that's probably changed by now) - so for JD 2014 the Wii U had a lower attach rate than the XB1.

 

[vinnygambini]

To add a crazy rumor to this thread - I heard some buzz about Softbank approaching Nintendo to buy the 5% Nintendo is planning to buy-back itself - and being turned down.

Slim chance of it happening, but if it did, it would be interesting b/c one of the hold-ups that Iwata had with launching a tablet or phone in the investor Q&A was that Nintendo didn't really have any mobile partnerships and implicitly suggesting that it would make it hard to enter a really crowded space like that.

With Softbank ready to acquire T-Mobile and merge it with Sprint, combined with their already strong presence in Japan - it would give Nintendo instant and priority access to 100 million subscribers in the US, and 30 million subscribers in Japan. Softbank is apparently focused on building a mobile empire over the next 5 years so if their financing plans come through after T-Mobile and they can turn it around - they should keep making acquisitions into markets that Nintendo could then have a presence in.

So anyways, not happening, but interesting to consider the possibilities. It's an exciting time to be on the M&A circuit

In case anyone is interested, Softbank most recently failed at acquiring Universal - and they own stakes in Yahoo Japan, GungHo, UStream, and SuperCell

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/b...-softbanks-lucrative-offer-for-universal.html

Interesting! Always appreciate your input Tehrik! SoftBank's acquisitions and expansion throughout the years are very aggressive as they seem to want to establish themselves as the next big conglomerate. It would actually be a great acquisition for SoftBank and a great partner for Nintendo if it does fall through.

 

[Biker19]

I feel so bad for Nintendo. They make the very best video games on the planet and no one wants to buy them. The direction of the entire industry pretty much sucks right now.

IMO, they brought this on themselves. If they haven't gotten lazy by sitting back & counting all of the money that they made from the Wii & from the DS, if they have actually kept supporting the Wii until the very end & not just let the Wii brand run into obscurity, & if they had came to grips with HD development & had been prepared for it from the beginning (they had 6 to 7 years to prepare for this, for crying out loud!), they wouldn't be in the situation that they're currently in.

They should've immediately realized that the Wii brand is no longer powerful after it was starting to die down, & should've went with a much different approach with their console, instead of making their console a "HD Wii" & instead of bringing out a gimmick that's not very appealing & giving the console a ridiculous name, making many people think that the console &/or the Wii U Gamepad "a Wii add-on," or "a Wii upgrade," etc.

 

[Tripon]

Now I see why EviLore wanted six new mods.

You need a million more at this rate.

 

[Haeralis The BRave]

Gotta love how the ignorant still blame the PS3s $599 on the backwards compatibility even though that made up a whole $27 of the cost.

Its almost certain that BC isn't adding a significant amount to the Wii U either since it IIRC is just using an upgraded version of the Wii's architecture. If the Wii U wasn't BC, if anything it would be selling less.

 

[Metallix87]

Yep, it's rumored. The difference is Nintendo forces things on you and Sony doesn't. If I want to buy an optional vr headset I can. If I don't? I don't have too.

Yeah, but the difference is, as a result, there's less software to support it and, in turn, less incentive for you to buy it.

 

[ArynCrinn]

I really don't understand why Nintendo insists on remaining a public company, it's asinine. They could do practically whatever the fuck they wanted good or bad as a private company and do fine. At least fine enough to survive as is and not lay anybody off. All this bullshit about investors is just...bullshit. It means nothing, Nintendo ain't abandoning the Wii U until they are good and ready in another 4-5 years for their next machine, mark that down. Come what may, period, next case.

Problem with Nintendo is, their essentially 2005 era market idiots, and I say that with love of Nintendo. But it's true. They expect their brands to sell themselves, they expect to be able to "not compete" solely on their name recognition alone, they are unwilling to give NOA/NOE any sort of real power to appeal and vouch for their market, so the whole premise of Ninty development grows out of this completely biased Japanese prism. That's imo, why their marketing of this machine has failed so badly in almost every territory.

The bottom line is, if Nintendo wants to 1) stay of public company and 2) stay relevant and turn profit, and I know I'm gonna get a ton of hate for this but....they need to drop their handheld business and focus solely on console game development and machine features. They CANNOT keep juggling two devices with quality content on a consistent basis for much longer. The handheld market is dwindling and a phase shift took place when smart phones and iOS/Android games became available. They need to bet the entire horse on one device. If ALL the best 3DS games to date had been developed and released for Wii U instead, we might be looking at different sales figures as well as a vastly superior library. Tie into this a major investment into this eShop and it gets even more interesting.

Beyond that, they need to expand their company size worldwide by I'd argue at least 50%. Increase their best team sizes by 50-75%, so that these teams can develop multiple game at the same time with quality on a consistent basis, no more huge droughts. They need to empower and increase Retro's team size by 50%, also I'd argue their budget 80% for every title. They need to build/create more local western and eastern Studios and empower them. And again, let NOA/NOE decide on what "their markets" are wanting and clamoring for, instead of what is now a very narrow minded Japanese view of both the machine AND the games and how their developed.

On the subject of third-party Nintendo idiocy is really on the same level as Valve's in this area. They both have the capital and charismatic negotiators to be at the bargaining table for almost EVERY multi-plat game with money on the table to back their word. But they both instead sit their with their thumbs up their asses and wait and hope they get offered that support at some future juncture. Not a good business plan if you want to cultivate any western relations if your Nintendo, and as we see hasn't been working for them since SNES. So the fact that third-parties are shaky about Nintendo is both historically derived and by proxy of the fact Nintendo isn't aggressively seeking it and putting the money where their mouth is, same for Valve really.

So these are just a few examples of what Nintendo needs to do in the long term to survive as a public company. There's also the need at this point to shake off that sticky vile image of "gaming for everyone" Nintendo is known for and champions, they need to change their motto (as well as game design priority) to "gaming for pro's". With an ever increasing emphasis on competitive and skill-based gameplay and machine and service features based around it. Not lame Mii-based bullshit everybody thinks is dumb as fuck.

And yes, for all this to occur over the next three years (and YES, it can happen all within three years), Iwata needs to take it to the gut and chin, couple times, and step aside and let a newer fresher more modern vision come in to save the Wii U and more importantly Nintendo's reputation and history. IMO

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Gotta love how the ignorant still blame the PS3s $599 on the backwards compatibility even though that made up a whole $27 of the cost.

Its almost certain that BC isn't adding a significant amount to the Wii U either since it IIRC is just using an upgraded version of the Wii's architecture. If the Wii U wasn't BC, if anything it would be selling less.

If the Wii U used an architecture similar to PS4/XB1, maybe it would be getting more ports and multiplats, enticing more customers.

 

[JordanN]

On the subject of third-party Nintendo idiocy is really on the same level as Valve's in this area. They both have the capital and charismatic negotiators to be at the bargaining table for almost EVERY multi-plat game with money on the table to back their word. But they both instead sit their with their thumbs up their asses and wait and hope they get offered that support at some future juncture.

Um, aren't third parties going to Valve? I don't get it. Steam has plenty of multiplats and likely even more so than Wii U does.

I don't think Valve has to care if they get multiplats. They're still game developers foremost with a quirky online service. They'll survive.

Nintendo however has their foot all over their place. They make games but they also back two consoles. Without steady software, their consoles are forced to wither thus turning into a real economic setback.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Um, aren't third parties going to Valve? I don't get it. Steam has plenty of multiplats and likely even more so than Wii U does.

I don't think Valve has to care if they get multiplats. They're still game developers foremost with a quirky online service. They'll survive.

Nintendo however has their foot all over their place. They make games but they also back two consoles. Without steady software, their consoles are forced wither thus turning into a real economic setback.

Point I was making is, both Nintendo and Valve sit around and wait and hope for multiplats, they aren't their at the bargaining table with cash in hand to grab them Day 1, instead of letting consoles get the fresh meat, and then getting possible shoddy ports down the road. Hell, Valve isn't even going after already existing great PC games that aren't on Steam, like the original SL games or the MGS Collection, and convincing Capcom to bring over the entire Mega Man Anthology, or the OG ResEvil series, which would sell like fucking hotcakes with a doubt in nobody's mind. They COULD do this, instead they want to focus on the irrelevant Steambox that isn't going anywhere (my opinion, just think it has little room for success).

 

[Aquamarine]

Interesting! Always appreciate your input Tehrik! SoftBank's acquisitions and expansion throughout the years are very aggressive as they seem to want to establish themselves as the next big conglomerate. It would actually be a great acquisition for SoftBank and a great partner for Nintendo if it does fall through.

I agree. It's a shame Nintendo turned them down. I wonder what Iwata's plans are!

 

[royalan]

Point I was making is, both Nintendo and Valve sit around and wait and hope for multiplats, they aren't their at the bargaining table with cash in hand to grab them Day 1, instead of letting consoles get the fresh meat, and then getting possible shoddy ports down the road. Hell, Valve isn't even going after already existing great PC games that aren't on Steam, like the original SL games or the MGS Collection, and convincing Capcom to bring over the entire Mega Man Anthology, or the OG ResEvil series, which would sell like fucking hotcakes with a doubt in nobody's mind. They COULD do this, instead they want to focus on the irrelevant Steambox that isn't going anywhere (my opinion, just think it has little room for success).

I don't think Valve and Nintendo are on the same page at all. In fact, the trajectories of both companies are the complete opposite. Steam's not getting every multiplat, but they're becoming increasingly relevant in the space. Their level of support is only increasing.

Nintendo, on the other hand, is becoming more and more irrelevant in the space.

Valve can afford to let multiplats come to them. Because...well, that's kinda what's happening. Not so with Nintendo.

 

[hongcha]

Nintendo ain't abandoning the Wii U until they are good and ready in another 4-5 years for their next machine, mark that down.

You are probably one of the few people on the planet right now that honestly thinks Nintendo is going to support the Wii U as their home console through 2018 or 2019. If you told that to Iwata today he'd probably burst out laughing, which, I imagine, would be a welcome respite from his extremely stressful and gloomy company life these days.

 

[ArynCrinn]

I don't think Valve and Nintendo are on the same page at all. In fact, the trajectories of both companies are the complete opposite. Steam's not getting every multiplat, but they're becoming increasingly relevant in the space. Their level of support is only increasing.

Nintendo, on the other hand, is becoming more and more irrelevant in the space.

Valve can afford to let multiplats come to them. Because...well, that's kinda what's happening. Not so with Nintendo.

This is obvious, but still not the point. BOTH companies can and should be at all the best multiplats bargaining tables to grab those titles Day 1. Otherwise, look at this trajectory, consoles get it first, then a couple months to a year down the line the dev "considers Steam" and then more often than not it's a less than optimal port with less Steam integrations that if it had been developed for from the start. And that's just a fact, the threshold might be growing smaller, but it still doesn't excuse the lack of Valve's ambition to get those games day and date with the consoles. And where's Valve's excuse for no Planescape Torment, where's Valve's excuse for no Silent Hill collection, where's Valve's excuse for no MGS Collection, where's Valve's excuse for not leveraging MGR's success as a reason to entice PG to bring over Vanquish, where's Valve's excuse for not sitting down with Capcom and getting the Mega Man games and the old school ResiEvil games? Where's the excuse for that and a ton of other already on PC for years games they could easily get?

It certainly isn't going towards making their atrocious customer service better, or even worse technical service when things go wrong. So Valve who's has the cash and monopoly has really no excuses. Other than, we'll just continue to let them "come to us" and feed Gabe all the Twinkie money that should be going towards better customer service. But that's my rap on Valve anyway.

Nintendo on the other hand has the same ability to go out and be at the bargining table with cash in hand to get these games on their machine, there's really no excuse there either. It's almost a masochistic position Nintendo takes on that issue really.

On the issue on Indie developers, all Nintendo needs to do is post a massive company wide announcement: "No more red tape on patches, no more restrictive ratings, no more sending us builds to verify that takes weeks/months, and you get to keep 75% of all profits made on the eShop". I guarantee you if they did that, we'd see a tidal wave of Indie ports and developments on Wii U. Nintendo has no excuse not to if they TRULY wanted that support NOW.

You are probably one of the few people on the planet right now that honestly thinks Nintendo is going to support the Wii U as their home console through 2018 or 2019. If you told that to Iwata today he'd probably burst out laughing, which, I imagine, would be a welcome respite from his extremely stressful and gloomy company life these days.

As has been said of many Nintendo consoles... I think you'll be surprised.

 

[Aquamarine]

As has been said of many Nintendo consoles... I think you'll be surprised.

The problem with your argument is that the Wii U is a very special case, as Nintendo has been in their most difficult situation in a very, VERY long time.

For the past three years in a row Nintendo has lost money in their core business. Since 1980 (when Nintendo entered the worldwide video game industry), they've been able to make their business profitable every single year...except for the past three years.

Every Nintendo console generation has seen profits for the company...except this one. For that reason, we won't see Iwata treating the Wii U like any other Nintendo console. Many people fully except the lifecycle of the Wii U to be cut short to some degree.

 

[Shiggy]

You are probably one of the few people on the planet right now that honestly thinks Nintendo is going to support the Wii U as their home console through 2018 or 2019. If you told that to Iwata today he'd probably burst out laughing, which, I imagine, would be a welcome respite from his extremely stressful and gloomy company life these days.

Nintendo will discontinue Wii Street U in March 2016.i don't think that they'll support the system afterwards anymore.

 

[NateDrake]

The problem with your argument is that the Wii U is a very special case, as Nintendo has been in their most difficult situation in a very, VERY long time.

For the past three years in a row Nintendo hasn't been able to make their core business profitable. Since 1980 (when Nintendo entered the worldwide video game industry), they've been able to make their business profitable every single year...except for the past three years.

Every Nintendo console generation has seen profits for the company...except this one. For that reason, we won't see Iwata treating the Wii U like any other Nintendo console. Many people fully except the lifecycle of the Wii U to be cut short to some degree.

Cutting it short has to happen. Nintendo can't support the system on their own for 4yrs+ at this point. Letting Wii U live until 2016 is pushing it, but 2016 is the earliest I see them introducing/launching a new home console.

 

[Biker19]

This is obvious, but still not the point. BOTH companies can and should be at all the best multiplats bargaining tables to grab those titles Day 1. Otherwise, look at this trajectory, consoles get it first, then a couple months to a year down the line the dev "considers Steam" and then more often than not it's a less than optimal port with less Steam integrations that if it had been developed for from the start. And that's just a fact, the threshold might be growing smaller, but it still doesn't excuse the lack of Valve's ambition to get those games day and date with the consoles. And where's Valve's excuse for no Planescape Torment, where's Valve's excuse for no Silent Hill collection, where's Valve's excuse for no MGS Collection, where's Valve's excuse for not leveraging MGR's success as a reason to entice PG to bring over Vanquish, where's Valve's excuse for not sitting down with Capcom and getting the Mega Man games and the old school ResiEvil games? Where's the excuse for that and a ton of other already on PC for years games they could easily get?

The problem with that is...most of the games that you listed are all Japanese 3rd party games, & most Japanese 3rd party publishers/developers aren't too fond of Xbox & PC gaming (& neither platform is very popular in Japan within many Japanese gaming fans)...especially smaller Japanese 3rd party publishers/developers, as they mostly want to develop games for handhelds & mobile. That's why you rarely see Japanese 3rd party games on PC except from a few publishers (mostly Capcom, because they love to have better graphics on their games, aside from Square-Enix & Polyphony Digital from Sony).

 

[AzaK]

I saw a bunch of people tossing around no BC as a deal breaker.

... for who? All those people not buying a Wii U? If they wanted the games, they'd have a Wii U, it's that simple.

If anything, this would be the perfect time to abandon hardware backwards compatibility, while the userbase is at a low point.

So many statements in this thread not making sense.

Yup. BC ends up being a noose around your neck. Imagine if Sony felt they had to have BC.

 

[ArynCrinn]

The problem with your argument is that the Wii U is a very special case, as Nintendo has been in their most difficult situation in a very, VERY long time.

For the past three years in a row Nintendo has lost money in their core business. Since 1980 (when Nintendo entered the worldwide video game industry), they've been able to make their business profitable every single year...except for the past three years.

Every Nintendo console generation has seen profits for the company...except this one. For that reason, we won't see Iwata treating the Wii U like any other Nintendo console. Many people fully except the lifecycle of the Wii U to be cut short to some degree.

The Wii U itself as a machine is not the problem. It's the operating system policy and lack of integrated features (all which could be fixed with a competent team in less than 8 months, using the same overall "channel structure"). The machine's specs are also not the problem, it's more than capable of delivering excellent groundbreaking experiences that are modern and fresh. It's not the name even that needs to change.

It's the vision that needs to change along with the marketing of that vision, support for that vision through a radical restructuring of the core-OS and multitasking features. A vast or total elimination of MiiVerse into something more fresh, modern and palatable to wow the public at large. Think of a interactive Facebook/Gamertag/Forum all rolled into one is a excellent example of something "gamers in 2014" could appreciate. Not a bunch of "unyeahs" and dumb Mii's cackling around. And it need of course a unified account system as well as cross platform play I'd argue (3DS and Wii U are EXACTLY the same idea essentially). And it needs to be marketed towards the and I hate the meme "hardcore gamer". And that brings us to the third pillar.

Games. It needs new ideas, better ideas that appeal to western audiences rather than the stale Mario nostalgia. And it needs every single one that Nintendo can muster, hence my suggestion to abandon the 3DS to a large degree, if not entirely. This means you Greenlight anything Retro wants to fucking do, period. This means you create new studios with talent vetted from genres Nintendo isn't known for (fighting games, FPS, racing sims, etc) and make them all Nintendo exclusive. All Nintendo needs is 2-3 big hitters, that can be platforms to future sequels that will continue that sales trajectory. Who knows what it will be, but that's all that's needed really.

Nintendo had that with the Wii, Wii Sports/Fit/etc. But of course that was a short term one hit wonder deal, the smarter long game would to have been cultivate a hardcore IP of that selling nature and push that drug. That's what they need to do right now, find the hit that works and build off that success. The Wii U might end up being Nintendo's weakest selling console, but if I can say anything good about Nintendo is that they somehow always seem to find a way to weather the storm and find that "hit", that sweet spot that helps the console survive. If their partnership with Platinum continues to gain traction, that could prove to be a catalyst for "something". Maybe a NintendoxPlatinum game, where Nintendo finally and truly breaks their own rules regarding the type of content and willingness to be provocative. Imagine it, Miyamoto last game he co-directs with Kamiya given a budget and time table that Platinum normally could not achieve on their own, plus the glitz and glamour and attention of the whole gaming industry for what would be Miyamoto's last personal project.

But in any case, I don't think Nintendo will abandon the Wii U until Smash Bros sells like shit (it won't), Mario Kart totally bombs (it won't), and Zelda goes under 7 metacritic and doesn't even break the top 100 (it won't happen). Their gonna try pretty much everything game related to make the console survive, and hopefully that means they finally listen to Nintendo fans and give Retro back Prime (or Metroid in general), and short term release a easily upscaled HD Smash Trilogy with the "hopefully" great netcode from the new Smash. Along with a new real Pokemon strictly for Wii U and not some Colosseum BS. I actually think if they released a few HD ports they could boost profits short term. And there's a lot of em'. Metroid Prime Trilogy HD anybody? If cross-platform play was introduced, hell, they could even put OoT Remake up on the eShop, same with Luigi's Mansion 2 and the new Zelda. You don't think that would sell a few copies?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Yes they can definitely put up cheap titles/ports/ remakes to fill the lineup but I don't think anything major will be comissioned now. They have a lineup that should cover 2015 with a bit of help.

 

[royalan]

This is obvious, but still not the point. BOTH companies can and should be at all the best multiplats bargaining tables to grab those titles Day 1. Otherwise, look at this trajectory, consoles get it first, then a couple months to a year down the line the dev "considers Steam" and then more often than not it's a less than optimal port with less Steam integrations that if it had been developed for from the start. And that's just a fact, the threshold might be growing smaller, but it still doesn't excuse the lack of Valve's ambition to get those games day and date with the consoles. And where's Valve's excuse for no Planescape Torment, where's Valve's excuse for no Silent Hill collection, where's Valve's excuse for no MGS Collection, where's Valve's excuse for not leveraging MGR's success as a reason to entice PG to bring over Vanquish, where's Valve's excuse for not sitting down with Capcom and getting the Mega Man games and the old school ResiEvil games? Where's the excuse for that and a ton of other already on PC for years games they could easily get?

For what it's worth, I don't disagree with the spirit of your posts in regards to the efforts both companies could be making. Just pointing out that their trajectories do make a difference in how Valve and Nintendo can approach 3rd parties.

Looking at the numbers, Valve is big and relevant, and only getting bigger and even more relevant to the gaming space. And that's definitely something Valve is allowed to weigh as an advantage in future negotiations for a seat at the table. You know, why pay for today what they'll be giving me for free tomorrow?

Nintendo, on the other hand, is a more desperate position. Time is anything but their friend right now, and this makes their non-effort all the more damning.

On the issue on Indie developers, all Nintendo needs to do is post a massive company wide announcement: "No more red tape on patches, no more restrictive ratings, no more sending us builds to verify that takes weeks/months, and you get to keep 75% of all profits made on the eShop". I guarantee you if they did that, we'd see a tidal wave of Indie ports and developments on Wii U. Nintendo has no excuse not to if they TRULY wanted that support NOW.



As has been said of many Nintendo consoles... I think you'll be surprised.

I don't know about this. For a while the Wii U seemed to be the friendliest platform for indie devs...but all it took was Sony and Microsoft slightly adjusting their indie game policies shortly before their launches to effectively turn that time, pretty much proving that indie devs want to be where the audience is just as much as the big boys do.

 

[John Harker]

No, this doesn't all exist in a vacuum. Iwata's immediate goal is to make the company profitable in the near term. If nintendo shifts everything to next gen development, they're going to be looking at ~2 years without a profitable quarter, which will make them hemorrhage investors even worse than they are now. Games that are fairly far along in development (which may or may not be a superset of those announced) should be pushed out on the Wii U. This would mean lower near term losses, more consumer confidence, and the continued good word of mouth that we finally saw this past holiday season.

A good CEO should be looking at what unique opportunities arise from Wii-U-gate. A couple off the top of my head:

- Push digital hard on Wii U. You're not getting shelfspace anyway, so give as much incentive as you can to the hardcore ~4 million Wii U owners to buy digital, at much higher margins for nintendo.

-You have a hardcore audience that will almost certainly be starved for software. Use the opportunity to introduce some new IPs and interesting game mechanics, or push lapsed, lower budget IPs.

-Continue the foray into the indie community, with an eye towards quality and building publishing relationships. Less competing AAA games on the platform means greater opportunity for indies (c.f. playstation vita).



Essentially I agree with people here that nintendo needs to drop the Wii U as soon as possible (sadly - I love mine), but most here are suggesting that they drop it sooner than possible, which would only damage the company further.

Your reasoning is pretty good, but some of your foundations are unfortunately too far off... There is no hard core audience on the WiiU now. There's no 'content starvation' going on, there's little market evidence at all they have a loyal, monetizable audience to sell to, outside of core Mario fans. I can't see them being satisfied with any other franchises numbers, and third party games aren't even seeing a lift over launch numbers. Hell, Xbox one just dance sales are outpacing wii u.

 

[leroidys]

Yup. BC ends up being a noose around your neck. Imagine if Sony felt they had to have BC.

Agreed. The only way they can compete with their next console is moving to x86, both for price/power and ease of development.

Your reasoning is pretty good, but some of your foundations are unfortunately too far off... There is no hard core audience on the WiiU now. There's no 'content starvation' going on, there's little market evidence at all they have a loyal, monetizable audience to sell to, outside of core Mario fans. I can't see them being satisfied with any other franchises numbers, and third party games aren't even seeing a lift over launch numbers. Hell, Xbox one just dance sales are outpacing wii u.

I should have said "diehard" rather than hardcore, as the only meaningful audience they can really hope to attract at this point (and have attracted) are diehard nintendo fans. I don't see what bearing Just Dance has on the discussion. Wii U is obviously getting walloped, I'm just trying to outline some points that a sensible damage control plan would follow until they can get the nextendo out.

As far as the "content starvation" part, I did not articulate that very well. I meant in the almost certain eventuality that the end of the Wii U's life will have a dearth of games, just as the Wii, Gamecube, and N64 did. Actually, the only systems that nintendo has really supported to the end are GB and GBA.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Agreed. Even though it would eat a chunk out of the cash reserves it has to be done. Drop to 199, bundle 3d world and push eShop HARD. Cut bait on the system now and you'll alienate the few million that did buy it. Market share is everything at this point.

I think they've alienated quite a few of the people that bought it already, as evidenced by current software sales, especially in the west. They're probably packed away/collecting dust/being put up for sale/being traded in or being considered for it.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Your reasoning is pretty good, but some of your foundations are unfortunately too far off... There is no hard core audience on the WiiU now. There's no 'content starvation' going on, there's little market evidence at all they have a loyal, monetizable audience to sell to, outside of core Mario fans. I can't see them being satisfied with any other franchises numbers, and third party games aren't even seeing a lift over launch numbers. Hell, Xbox one just dance sales are outpacing wii u.

Tomorrow, every third party multi-plat under the sun could go to the Wii U, and it wouldn't sell, and no one would buy any games.

 

[John Harker]

Tomorrow, every third party multi-plat under the sun could go to the Wii U, and it wouldn't sell, and no one would buy any games.

In my humble opinion, their biggest failure out of the gate was not effectively communicating why people need the gamepad and how it enhances the way you play those games you want. I don't even seriously question their decision to go with it, as much as I do their lack of preparedness to effectively create demand for it. MS really set the best example with how they brought Kinect to market the first time and how they manufactured demand for a complete unknown, disruptive device. The GP should have been easier given user data on touch pad behavior.

There's been a lot of other major issues, but to me that was a big marketing failure and they haven't recovered yet. It's a good device that no one wants, and no pricing or mixed messaging is going to get people to buy something they simply do not understand and desire.

 

[AniHawk]

In my humble opinion, their biggest failure out of the gate was not effectively communicating why people need the gamepad and how it enhances the way you play those games you want. I don't even seriously question their decision to go with it, as much as I do their lack of preparedness to effectively create demand for it.

There's been a lot of other major issues, but to me that was a big marketing failure and they haven't recovered yet. It's a good device that no one wants, and no pricing or mixed messaging is going to get people to buy something they simply so not understand and want.

how u will play next

see what we did. we put the 'u' in there. clever huh.

 

[E-phonk]

If the whole "6 million WII U units are already produced and sitting in a warehouse" story is true, and is used as a reason why selling the Wii U without gamepad is a bad idea, I came up with the following:

- Re-release the Wii U "basic" at 150/199. No gamepad included, just the pro controller. 199 is price + game
- Sell gamepad seperate for 99 including nintendoland
- Keep the WiiU Deluxe version at 250, including gamepad and a game (3D world would be nice).

In the meantime work hard on releasing the next console asap. Make the gamepad compatible with it. People who bought a Wii U can still use their gamepad (still a feature a lot of the people who have a WiiU seem to like) for off-tv play on the next-gen machine.

 

[Log4Girlz]

In my humble opinion, their biggest failure out of the gate was not effectively communicating why people need the gamepad and how it enhances the way you play those games you want. I don't even seriously question their decision to go with it, as much as I do their lack of preparedness to effectively create demand for it. MS really set the best example with how they brought Kinect to market the first time and how they manufactured demand for a complete unknown, disruptive device. The GP should have been easier given user data on touch pad behavior.

There's been a lot of other major issues, but to me that was a big marketing failure and they haven't recovered yet. It's a good device that no one wants, and no pricing or mixed messaging is going to get people to buy something they simply do not understand and desire.

The Wii U is such a cluster-cuss. First, the novelty of the controller is nowhere near as compelling as the motion controls of its predecessor because well, everything has had a touch screen in the last few years, so it is not novel at all and therefore would have never gained anyone's interest anyway.

It was far too expensive. People see Nintendo devices as cheap toys.

No goddamn games.

Nintendo cannot create any kind of traditional console. Wii U is too close to a traditional console experience. They should have learned with the Gamecube that no one wants a console from them. Though people value novelty, which allowed Wii to skyrocket. After Kinect refined motion controls (eliminating the barrier of having to use a controller, for good or ill), motion controls are no longer a novelty. Touch controls are already old.

I don't see anything under the sun which will kindle interest in a Nintendo console ever again, apart from an incredibly cheap device. All the major novelties have already been developed. VR is too awkward to experience.

Wii U is dead, we can put a fork in it. Anything else they come out with will see similar sales. Wii sold to casuals, they are in the mobile space now. Anything targeting casuals will be competing with tablets and phones without actually being a tablet or phone. Its like going into a gun fight with a knife.