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[Speevy]

Very true. This isn't the difference between Nintendo 64 and PSX, Master System and NES, Xbox and PlayStation 2, or Game Boy and Game Gear. There's a real generational leap between DS and PSP.

There's also a real leap of faith on Sony's part to make the whole marketing picture work.

Seriously, folks act as though Sony already owns the market.

How many people here are buying the PSP?

How many people here are buying Prince of Persia 2? Great, it still won't sell like it should.

My point is that the DS is far less risky for Nintendo than the PSP is for Sony. Most Gameboy owners are happy with their Gameboys. They're probably not forking over $100 more for a PSP, and they might not even fork over $50 more for a DS.

Sony has to do the following:

-Create a market

-Target that market

-Show consumers in that market why their product is clearly worthwhile in addition to the $300 they will already be spending on the PS3 or Xbox 2.

-Show consumers a consistent leap in technology, and why it's not just a novelty to have that on a handheld, but the standard.

-Show consumers games that lend themselves to handheld gaming, and not just games you could be buying on the PS2. Where is the Advance Wars of the PSP? I wouldn't buy the first Advance Wars on the Gamecube. I'd buy it on the GBA. Why then would I buy GT4 mobile if I have a choice between those two alternatives and don't mind gaming at home?

-Show consumers why the Gameboy brand needs to be replaced in the market. People seem pretty content, or even complacent about the sales every month. I don't see any GBA owners crying, do you?

-Show consumers that there's a quality, reliable product to be had. "It's just like a PS2.", is not exactly the most comforting thing to hear.

-Take over the kids market. Sony CANNOT win the handheld wars if the same number of kids are still buying Gameboys. Sometimes I think Sony aims to eliminate this segment of the population from gaming entirely.



If Sony can do all this over a number of years, they've got a shot. Otherwise, it's all hype.

 

[Insertia]

The different aspects of DS?

If graphics was everything Doom3 would been the greatest game of alltime so far..

If graphics weren't everything Doom3 would have been heavly ignored.

If graphics was everything, gamegear would have stomped the original gameboy. etc.

If graphics weren't everything GG wouldn't have performed as well as it did and we wouldn't be discussing it till this day.

I am not denying that graphics isn't important, but gameplay is still king. And Nintendo will try to find new gameplay ideas with the DS.

You're undercrediting PSP's large graphical leap over DS.

No gamer in this age would buy Madden for n64 over the ps2 version.

replace 'n64' with 'ds' and '2' with 'p'.

 

[DJ Demon J]

I am not denying that graphics isn't important, but gameplay is still king.

Dreamcast says hi.

 

[drohne]

I don't see any GBA owners crying, do you?

no. but i don't see them buying games either. tie ratios are abysmal. i don't think we can assume that gba owners are largely content or engaged.

 

[Speevy]

no. but i don't see them buying games either. tie ratios are abysmal. i don't think we can assume that gba owners are largely content or engaged.

So they're going to buy $50 outdated handheld technology when there are new Xbox 2 games to buy?

If GT4 Mobile sells 1/4 as much as its PS2 counterpart, I will be very surprised.

 

[drohne]

i'm not convinced that psp's tie ratios will be much better. low tie ratios might be inherent to the way people use handhelds. well, i guess they'll draw an older audience with more money to spend. that should help to some degree.

 

[Lord Error]

So they're going to buy $50 outdated handheld technology when there are new Xbox 2 games to buy?

On what planet do you live, where PSP is 'outdated' technology? What kind of technology miniaturization magic exists there?

 

[radioheadrule83]

Very true. This isn't the difference between Nintendo 64 and PSX, Master System and NES, Xbox and PlayStation 2, or Game Boy and Game Gear. There's a real generational leap between DS and PSP.

Yeah, but in the same breath there's still a price difference, the matter of the entire Gameboy Advance back catalogue, the touch screen, built in mic and whatever else they have up their sleeve.

 

[Mashing]

no. but i don't see them buying games either. tie ratios are abysmal. i don't think we can assume that gba owners are largely content or engaged.

And this isn't going to be a problem for Sony??? You're delusional if you think the tie ratios are going to be higher than the Gameboy.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

no. but i don't see them buying games either. tie ratios are abysmal. i don't think we can assume that gba owners are largely content or engaged.

So what was the decision in that other thread? Does piracy help or hinder?

 

[Brofist]

If Sony can do all this over a number of years, they've got a shot. Otherwise, it's all hype.

:lol Nice damage control for when the PSP sells out for the 1st year.."bu..buu..but, we'll see if that holds up for 5 years".

The question isn't whether it can sell, it's whether it will set a new standard.

 

[Renegade]

The different aspects of DS?

If graphics was everything Doom3 would been the greatest game of alltime so far.

If graphics was everything, gamegear would have stomped the original gameboy. etc.

I am not denying that graphics isn't important, but gameplay is still king. And Nintendo will try to find new gameplay ideas with the DS.

Dude, you missed the entire point. SpiderMan 2 DS will be more akin to the NGage version than anything else. Horrible 3D exploration segments (Or is it FMV?) and horrible 2D action elements. That's what's been shown so far for the DS.

With the PSP, it may not be just as pretty as the PS2 counterpart (But CLOSE!), but just as functional, with complete 3D levels and actual exploration. There's a very clear difference. What do you think the consumer is going to buy? Be truthful.

No contest. The PSP is CLEARLY more advanced and capable than the DS.

 

[jarrod]

Dreamcast says hi.

He said gameplay.

 

[jarrod]

Uh, the same can be done with CD based media

Not without halving that battery expectation. GTA3,Vice Cty or San Andreas in their current forms couldn't be done reasonably on PSP.

Dude, you missed the entire point. SpiderMan 2 DS will be more akin to the NGage version than anything else. Horrible 3D exploration segments (Or is it FMV?) and horrible 2D action elements. That's what's been shown so far for the DS.

With the PSP, it may not be just as pretty as the PS2 counterpart (But CLOSE!), but just as functional, with complete 3D levels and actual exploration. There's a very clear difference. What do you think the consumer is going to buy? Be truthful.

No contest. The PSP is CLEARLY more advanced and capable than the DS.

-The DS version of Spider-Man 2 isn't based off any other version. It's being done from the ground up for DS exclusively. I actually don't think there's an NGage version either.

-The PSP version looks a far cry from the console games (or at least it did when we last saw it). It might be a port of the console versions but honestly it looked so different no one's sure.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Dude, you missed the entire point. SpiderMan 2 DS will be more akin to the NGage version than anything else. Horrible 3D exploration segments (Or is it FMV?) and horrible 2D action elements. That's what's been shown so far for the DS.

With the PSP, it may not be just as pretty as the PS2 counterpart (But CLOSE!), but just as functional, with complete 3D levels and actual exploration. There's a very clear difference. What do you think the consumer is going to buy? Be truthful.

No contest. The PSP is CLEARLY more advanced and capable than the DS.

Hey lets judge DS on game that took 5 months to make.

 

[Mr_Furious]

You have a point though, but as far as parents are concerned price is the most important thing. Say for instance Nintendo dropped the DS price to $129 or even an outrageous $100 (the defacto mass-market price) and the PSP was still at $185-$199... Which one is the soccer mom likely to pick up for their teenagers (the ones who don't have their own cashflow)?

Not necessarily, especially if you're talking about teens. Ultimately, if your teenage kid wants a PSP, he/she will most likely get that PSP, NOT some DS substitute. We're talking teens here, not some gullable little snotnosed grad school kid.

There's also a real leap of faith on Sony's part to make the whole marketing picture work.

Seriously, folks act as though Sony already owns the market.

How many people here are buying the PSP?

How many people here are buying Prince of Persia 2? Great, it still won't sell like it should.

My point is that the DS is far less risky for Nintendo than the PSP is for Sony. Most Gameboy owners are happy with their Gameboys. They're probably not forking over $100 more for a PSP, and they might not even fork over $50 more for a DS.

Sony has to do the following:

-Create a market

-Target that market

-Show consumers in that market why their product is clearly worthwhile in addition to the $300 they will already be spending on the PS3 or Xbox 2.

-Show consumers a consistent leap in technology, and why it's not just a novelty to have that on a handheld, but the standard.

-Show consumers games that lend themselves to handheld gaming, and not just games you could be buying on the PS2. Where is the Advance Wars of the PSP? I wouldn't buy the first Advance Wars on the Gamecube. I'd buy it on the GBA. Why then would I buy GT4 mobile if I have a choice between those two alternatives and don't mind gaming at home?

-Show consumers why the Gameboy brand needs to be replaced in the market. People seem pretty content, or even complacent about the sales every month. I don't see any GBA owners crying, do you?

-Show consumers that there's a quality, reliable product to be had. "It's just like a PS2.", is not exactly the most comforting thing to hear.

-Take over the kids market. Sony CANNOT win the handheld wars if the same number of kids are still buying Gameboys. Sometimes I think Sony aims to eliminate this segment of the population from gaming entirely.



If Sony can do all this over a number of years, they've got a shot. Otherwise, it's all hype.

Sony doesn't have to do all of it in order to be successful in the portable business and it's stupid to think so. What if the market already exists and Sony's simply catering to it? Also, Sony doesn't need to specifically cater to the kiddie market but they'll most likely have plenty of "E" rated games to cater to the general market, much like their PS2 business model. Hasn't hurt them yet

 

[jarrod]

Not necessarily, especially if you're talking about teens. Ultimately, if your teenage kid wants a PSP, he/she will most likely get that PSP, NOT some DS substitute. We're talking teens here, not some gullable little snotnosed grad school kid.

Yeah, soon I'll be old enough to be one of those gullable little snotnosed grad school kids too. Hopefully by fall 2006. *crosses fingers*

 

[radioheadrule83]

Not necessarily, especially if you're talking about teens. Ultimately, if your teenage kid wants a PSP, he/she will most likely get that PSP, NOT some DS substitute. We're talking teens here, not some gullable little snotnosed grad school kid.

This works on the assumption there will be NO compelling Nintendo DS software, gameboy-related brand hype, demand and consequential development in the 6 months before PlayStation Portable comes to the NA market. I honestly don't think the hardware or graphics will be an issue as long as there's unique, good software and the price keeps PSP at a significant enough premium. There's no reason the handheld market won't support both competitors... why anyone is predicting doom for either, especially the market leader is beyond me.

 

[Mashing]

Yup, it all comes down to the Killer App...

Lets say for arguements sake Halo was going to be made for one of the two portables... given Microsoft current propensity, which one do you think they'd chose?

 

[Shogmaster]

Yup, it all comes down to the Killer App...

Lets say for arguements sake Halo was going to be made for one of the two portables... given Microsoft current propensity, which one do you think they'd chose?

 

[Mashing]

Shog, that looks like something the GBA Next could be.

 

[Shogmaster]

Shog, that looks like something the GBA Next could be.

You must have missed all my XBoy posts last year. Good times.....

 

[jarrod]

Shog, that looks like something the GBA Next could be.

Needs touch screen.

 

[Kon Tiki]

I dont think GBA should have touchscreen. Leave that to DS. Make GBA a straight up, yet poewerful handheld.

 

[Shogmaster]

Needs touch screen.

I'll bet you that Nintendo will drop the touch screen on the Gamaboy next like a hot potato.

 

[SantaC]

Dude, you missed the entire point. SpiderMan 2 DS will be more akin to the NGage version than anything else. Horrible 3D exploration segments (Or is it FMV?) and horrible 2D action elements. That's what's been shown so far for the DS.

With the PSP, it may not be just as pretty as the PS2 counterpart (But CLOSE!), but just as functional, with complete 3D levels and actual exploration. There's a very clear difference. What do you think the consumer is going to buy? Be truthful.

No contest. The PSP is CLEARLY more advanced and capable than the DS.

Ok great to know that, but have you ever thought that there are other differences between DS & PSP, and not just in the graphics department?

 

[jarrod]

I'll bet you that Nintendo will drop the touch screen on the Gamaboy next like a hot potato.

Naw, they'll drop dual screens but touch interface is here to stay. PSP SP should have a touch screen too.

 

[cvxfreak]

Naw, they'll drop dual screens but touch interface is here to stay. PSP SP should have a touch screen too.

IAWTP

 

[Mr_Furious]

Yeah, soon I'll be old enough to be one of those gullable little snotnosed grad school kids too. Hopefully by fall 2006. *crosses fingers*

Jeezus, you forget one little letter and all of a sudden your entire fucking point goes into the shitter. I think you know what I meant. GRADE! Again, that's GRADE with a motherfucking E. LET ME REPEAT, THAT'S GRADE WITH AN E. Jeezus Harold Christ.

This works on the assumption there will be NO compelling Nintendo DS software, gameboy-related brand hype, demand and consequential development in the 6 months before PlayStation Portable comes to the NA market. I honestly don't think the hardware or graphics will be an issue as long as there's unique, good software and the price keeps PSP at a significant enough premium. There's no reason the handheld market won't support both competitors... why anyone is predicting doom for either, especially the market leader is beyond me.

I also believe that there's room to support both platforms but those people defending the DS using arguments that can obviously be applied towards the GC, which ends up nullifying it and proving them wrong, baffle me. Sure Nintendo dominates the portable market. They also owned the home market back in the 8-bit days and now where do they stand in that market? If there's one thing this industry has proven is that 'things change'. People need to start acknowledging this possibility instead of just stating "Nintendo rules the portable market and are unstoppable because they have Pokemon".

 

[Renegade]

Ok great to know that, but have you ever thought that there are other differences between DS & PSP, and not just in the graphics department?

...that was the point.

Anyway, to the other responce: Lets compare Need for Speed Underground portable versions

 

[SantaC]

This one could go on forever...

 

[Shogmaster]

Naw, they'll drop dual screens but touch interface is here to stay. PSP SP should have a touch screen too.

If touch screen is so great for gaming, then why not one for consoles via a Wacom styled touch pad for your controller?

Touch screen gaming is a fad. As a 8 year PDA user, trust me on this.

 

[Brofist]

I'll bet you that Nintendo will drop the touch screen on the Gamaboy next like a hot potato.

IAWTP

 

[seismologist]

Touch screen gaming is a fad. As a 8 year PDA user, trust me on this.

Wow that should be a quote for the archives

After the DS Id be reluctant to go back to a single screen portable. It's like taking a step backwards, IMHO.

 

[radioheadrule83]

If touch screen is so great for gaming, then why not one for consoles via a Wacom styled touch pad for your controller?

Touch screen gaming is a fad. As a 8 year PDA user, trust me on this.

An actual touch screen and generic PC stylus pad are a bit different though. If PC monitors faced you at an appropriate angle from below you, and were touch screen, it would benefit plenty of games. PDA gaming isn't as dedicated to actual gaming as a video game console either...

there are certain types of games that will be better this way, no doubt about it. I seriously doubt touch screen will be a fad. I think it's one of those game standards that Nintendo will be able to claim they set (from a certain point of view of course), much to everyone else's chagrin.

Of course, if it's as popular as black and red 2.5d gaming, I'll concede straight away.

 

[Mashing]

All these touch screen naysayers will be eating their words when a Starcraft RTS comes out on the DS.

 

[Date of Lies]

There's also a real leap of faith on Sony's part to make the whole marketing picture work.

Seriously, folks act as though Sony already owns the market.

How many people here are buying the PSP?

How many people here are buying Prince of Persia 2? Great, it still won't sell like it should.

My point is that the DS is far less risky for Nintendo than the PSP is for Sony. Most Gameboy owners are happy with their Gameboys. They're probably not forking over $100 more for a PSP, and they might not even fork over $50 more for a DS.

Sony has to do the following:

-Create a market

-Target that market

-Show consumers in that market why their product is clearly worthwhile in addition to the $300 they will already be spending on the PS3 or Xbox 2.

-Show consumers a consistent leap in technology, and why it's not just a novelty to have that on a handheld, but the standard.

-Show consumers games that lend themselves to handheld gaming, and not just games you could be buying on the PS2. Where is the Advance Wars of the PSP? I wouldn't buy the first Advance Wars on the Gamecube. I'd buy it on the GBA. Why then would I buy GT4 mobile if I have a choice between those two alternatives and don't mind gaming at home?

-Show consumers why the Gameboy brand needs to be replaced in the market. People seem pretty content, or even complacent about the sales every month. I don't see any GBA owners crying, do you?

-Show consumers that there's a quality, reliable product to be had. "It's just like a PS2.", is not exactly the most comforting thing to hear.

-Take over the kids market. Sony CANNOT win the handheld wars if the same number of kids are still buying Gameboys. Sometimes I think Sony aims to eliminate this segment of the population from gaming entirely.



If Sony can do all this over a number of years, they've got a shot. Otherwise, it's all hype.

I agree with everything above. Personally I think the PSP can make be a considerate player in the handheld departement, but to think it will beat Nintendo's handhelds so soon is unreasonable. If superior hardware = salet, than why isn't Xbox on top? Only 40% of GBA owners are adult. I agree that Sony will need to create a new market in order for PSP to be succesful, and again it will share the market with Nintendo.

 

[DarienA]

The Sony create a new market mantra sounds really interesting.... I wonder why.... oh shit I know why cause that's what people said they couldn't do with the Playstation.... they couldn't create a market where it was normal for adults to purchase consoles and play video games. They couldn't create a market where gaming become more accepted, more mainstream.

Not saying that they can do the same thing in the handheld industry, but they at least have some experience in marketing to a new group of folks that are just waiting to be marketed to.

 

[Mr_Furious]

I agree with everything above. Personally I think the PSP can make be a considerate player in the handheld departement, but to think it will beat Nintendo's handhelds so soon is unreasonable. If superior hardware = salet, than why isn't Xbox on top? Only 40% of GBA owners are adult. I agree that Sony will need to create a new market in order for PSP to be succesful, and again it will share the market with Nintendo.

Here's a thought. What if Sony already did 'create a new market' with their PS2 console? PSP could be saying "Hey you've played and enjoyed games on my big brother, now enjoy a very similar experience on the go." It's like saying Sony needed to 'create a market' for the walkman when people already wanted this functionality. I'm not saying that it's as easy as that but I what I'm trying to say is that it may not be as difficult for Sony as many of you people think it'll be. The PSP provides a lot of bang for the buck and I think a lot of people are going to take that into consideration. The DS, as is the case with all of Nintendo's machines, is mainly geared towards games which has hurt their home console business.

 

[Date of Lies]

Hey, I'm not saying Sony can't create a new market, in fact, if anyone can create a new market, it's Sony.

And that thing with PS2 users being interested in PSP, I can see it happening, but that still counts as creating a new market, one that wasn't interested in handhelds before.

But it will take time and it will still share it's market with Nintendo, for atleast a considerable amount of time.

 

[neptunes]

All these touch screen naysayers will be eating their words when a Starcraft RTS comes out on the DS.

It's up to blizarrd, I don't see it happening anytime soon though.

 

[Speevy]

Here's a thought. What if Sony already did 'create a new market' with their PS2 console? PSP could be saying "Hey you've played and enjoyed games on my big brother, now enjoy a very similar experience on the go." It's like saying Sony needed to 'create a market' for the walkman when people already wanted this functionality. I'm not saying that it's as easy as that but I what I'm trying to say is that it may not be as difficult for Sony as many of you people think it'll be. The PSP provides a lot of bang for the buck and I think a lot of people are going to take that into consideration. The DS, as is the case with all of Nintendo's machines, is mainly geared towards games which has hurt their home console business.

Games sold the Xbox. Games sold the PS2. For all the talk about DVD players and hard drives, it turned out to be games. Features are just nice to have.

If handheld games are not a priority, then the quality of the PSP's graphics are irrelevant. That's the PSP's greatest sell. Without the graphics, the PSP is nothing. Even without the graphics, the DS went in a matter of months from a bad joke about "third pillars" to a serious competitor to one of the slickest looking machines to ever enter the handheld market.

If the PSP attracts people that want something besides games, that's exactly how its games will sell. And with such a low price point, Sony can't afford to have the GBA's tie-in ration.

 

[Mashing]

:lol yeah right!

Hey, a man can dream can't he?

Basically what I'm saying is that the DS is great for RTS games and classic adventure games... the PSP *probably* can't handle those too well

 

[Mr_Furious]

Games sold the Xbox. Games sold the PS2. For all the talk about DVD players and hard drives, it turned out to be games. Features are just nice to have.

If handheld games are not a priority, then the quality of the PSP's graphics are irrelevant. That's the PSP's greatest sell. Without the graphics, the PSP is nothing. Even without the graphics, the DS went in a matter of months from a bad joke about "third pillars" to a serious competitor to one of the slickest looking machines to ever enter the handheld market.

If the PSP attracts people that want something besides games, that's exactly how its games will sell. And with such a low price point, Sony can't afford to have the GBA's tie-in ration.

DVD functionality sold a fuckload of PS2s. I'd also argue that the Xbox has sold a fuckload because of the ease of it's questionable (i.e. illegal) abilities. Sure, in the end, there needs to be the games but it's silly to think that the same developers that are creating quality games on the home consoles are going stop thinking quality is a factor when it comes to the portable market. The same companies making great GC and PS2 games are the same ones that'll make great DS and PSP games. My initial point is that other than games, the DS offers up nothing really useful to consumers while the PSP will have the ability to play movies and music. I'd say that's a really big deal when it comes down to choosing which machine to purchase. Who wouldn't want the most bang out of their hard earned buck.

 

[HyperionX]

Touch screen gaming is a fad. As a 8 year PDA user, trust me on this.

Interesting enough, PDA's still use touch screens.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Interesting enough, PDA's still use touch screens.

That does not help your point about Touch screen + gaming.

You should focus on the two screens now.

You see, it is true that PDAs have a touch screen but it is also true that you are still cluttering the screen with the interface (touch screens are good for powerful interfaces with lots of possible actions that they can help you perform) while you use the stylus on the screen further reducing visibility.

Metroid Prime: Hunters will be like more classical PDA games though (the other screen includes a basic map which you hardly use that often in FPS games).

 

[Kon Tiki]

Metroid Prime: Hunters will be like more classical PDA games though (the other screen includes a basic map which you hardly use that often in FPS games).

As hideos as DS 3d is, I would love to see the DS become a FPS port machine. I love the new control method, and hope it becomes standard on DS FPS.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Meh, I really don't see why people think that the DS 3D, slightly better than that of the N64, is so fucking ugly.

Maybe I'm just blind, but I found a lot of N64 games to be BEAUTIFUL, and still do, when I revisit them (ie: Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, the Banjo games).

True, the hardware is more advanced now. The 3D is more refined. But it doesn't take anything away from the old games, IMO.

From all the videos of the DS I've seen, games look beautiful in motion: Smooth and crisp. In screen captures, however, that's another story. But what matters is how they look when you play the game.

 

[Kon Tiki]

The lack of filtering.

 

[GaimeGuy]

and like I said: In motion, it doesn't make a difference.