Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Son of Godzilla said:
you can always wear it around your neck.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nintendo PR on psp's new pricepoint
- Thread starter neptunes
- Start date
- Status
you can always wear it around your neck.
seismologist said:
That's subjective.
PSP will be the better product for 'causal' gamers like me and millions of other people that are new to handheld gaming (actually, it already is). We're the people that don't know wtf is so exciting about Advanced Wars ,Pokemon, Kirby, and a Princess Peach platformer...
seismologist
Banned
Insertia said:That's subjective.
We're the people that don't know wtf is so exciting about Advanced Wars ,Pokemon, Kirby, and a Princess Peach platformer...
well games DS I'm interested in are Madden, Wario Ware DS, Mario 64, Feel the Magic, Metroid Hunters, Animal Crossing DS, Puppy Time.
Advance Wars rocks too. Strategy games like that are begging to be played with the stylus.
:lol Shit, man...it's just a flash media format - it won't really fuck your mom!TheGreenGiant said:
Just about every flash media format is highly versatile these days, including memstick, thanks to the number of devices that support multiple versions. USB flash media readers are cheap and you can get things like CompactFlash adapters for the Memstick duos, so you could plug such a combo into a digital camera that only supports Compact Flash, for example.
So its not like buying a memstick would be a dead end with no other potential use for these people other than to save games and play their Britney Spears mp3s on the PSP.
And there's always the possibility they already own Memstick Duos...
I can only imagine what your DS is going to look like then - a device that *encourages* you to touch the screen...
The Ipod, DS and PSP are all great gadgets - stop grasping at straws.
i'd wager that initially:
People will buy the PSP for
- PS2 franchises brought to the PSP
- looks (both in graphics and in terms of the actual unit)
People will buy the DS for
- Nintendo games (both DS and to a smaller extent GBA)
- chat and wireless communication functions (it would be big in schools and universities)
Those are the big draws i see for each unit, basically in order of descending precedence.
Most people won't buy the PSP for music or movies, at least not until it's amasses a solid library of movies, and even then most people would probably go with a portable DVD player, that plays a much wider range of movies and has a bigger screen. Music playing on PSP is almost as tertiary function. i'd bet that once they see how little the 32MB stick provides musicwise, they'll be divided between those who see it as a novelty and those who break down and buy a Memory Stick to use it as a music player. Those who don't buy the value pack will probably get the cheapest stick they can, just to save some games, which brings us back to the decision of novelty versus worhtwhile investment.
If Nintendo drops the price of DS, it would definitely be a deciding factor in choosing which system. But as it stands now with the prices being so close, it really comes down to which system has what games.
i think there's definitely room for both systems, and despite the announcement of the PSP's price, the DS isn't doomed. A drop to $129 or evern $99 for the DS would definitely push units and make the PSP a harder sell, but i still see it as a chink in Nintendo's armor.
People will buy the PSP for
- PS2 franchises brought to the PSP
- looks (both in graphics and in terms of the actual unit)
People will buy the DS for
- Nintendo games (both DS and to a smaller extent GBA)
- chat and wireless communication functions (it would be big in schools and universities)
Those are the big draws i see for each unit, basically in order of descending precedence.
Most people won't buy the PSP for music or movies, at least not until it's amasses a solid library of movies, and even then most people would probably go with a portable DVD player, that plays a much wider range of movies and has a bigger screen. Music playing on PSP is almost as tertiary function. i'd bet that once they see how little the 32MB stick provides musicwise, they'll be divided between those who see it as a novelty and those who break down and buy a Memory Stick to use it as a music player. Those who don't buy the value pack will probably get the cheapest stick they can, just to save some games, which brings us back to the decision of novelty versus worhtwhile investment.
If Nintendo drops the price of DS, it would definitely be a deciding factor in choosing which system. But as it stands now with the prices being so close, it really comes down to which system has what games.
i think there's definitely room for both systems, and despite the announcement of the PSP's price, the DS isn't doomed. A drop to $129 or evern $99 for the DS would definitely push units and make the PSP a harder sell, but i still see it as a chink in Nintendo's armor.
Robert-GCA
Member
GBA is not being replaced. I don't know why people keep saying it is. Nintendo has already stated that the next iteration of GB is being developed. I have seen people, not just kids, playing GBC and such games on their GBA. DS cannot play anything older than GBA games. So for anyone who still has those games, they must get a GBA.
I don't know how many of you realize, but the launch titles for DS are mostly from 3rd parties. Nintendo has the MP: H First Hunt demo, and SM64DS. Thats it for the US. Madden, Spider-Man 2, Urbz, Feel The Magic are all 3rd party.
There is only 1 port on the DS so far. That is the N-Gage port of a racing game. The rest are all new games. So quit yer bitchin about it.
If you have not heard about Advance Wars, then you missed out on at least hearing/reading about 2 of the best games on GBA who both have earned a 90%+ on gamerankings..
I see lots of people saying that the touchscreen is a gimmick. Well to put it in comparison, lets say that I think that Tivo is a gimmick. Why should I buy that when I have a VCR? Its something that you have to experience. All I have heard from poeple once they get Tivo, is that it is awesome and couldn't imagine life without it again. Having so much control over the game, and a different type of interaction is what gives the DS and all its features its need for experience.
The DS was arguably the most talked about item at E3. The only line that might have been longer was for HL2, and that was only a video demo. DS was something you could actually use, and play. For the same people to wait in the 2+ hour line each day just to play it again for a few minutes speaks volumes. And that was before the retooling which made it better.
The handheld that will "win", will be the one with the best total package. That means games, battery, hardware, et al. People were saying that the GBA was gonna take a huge hit when the N-Gage was announced, well we all know how that went. Honestly I am impressed with the PSP's screen briliance. But hardware doesn't sell me. The DS has more features, BUT, I know that the games being made for it will be more unique in one way or another.
Sony is making a run for it full steam ahead. I think in NA though, the bout half year headstart the DS has will give it a lot more exposure than some people may think. It will be interesting to see how things turn out.
I don't know how many of you realize, but the launch titles for DS are mostly from 3rd parties. Nintendo has the MP: H First Hunt demo, and SM64DS. Thats it for the US. Madden, Spider-Man 2, Urbz, Feel The Magic are all 3rd party.
There is only 1 port on the DS so far. That is the N-Gage port of a racing game. The rest are all new games. So quit yer bitchin about it.
If you have not heard about Advance Wars, then you missed out on at least hearing/reading about 2 of the best games on GBA who both have earned a 90%+ on gamerankings..
I see lots of people saying that the touchscreen is a gimmick. Well to put it in comparison, lets say that I think that Tivo is a gimmick. Why should I buy that when I have a VCR? Its something that you have to experience. All I have heard from poeple once they get Tivo, is that it is awesome and couldn't imagine life without it again. Having so much control over the game, and a different type of interaction is what gives the DS and all its features its need for experience.
The DS was arguably the most talked about item at E3. The only line that might have been longer was for HL2, and that was only a video demo. DS was something you could actually use, and play. For the same people to wait in the 2+ hour line each day just to play it again for a few minutes speaks volumes. And that was before the retooling which made it better.
The handheld that will "win", will be the one with the best total package. That means games, battery, hardware, et al. People were saying that the GBA was gonna take a huge hit when the N-Gage was announced, well we all know how that went. Honestly I am impressed with the PSP's screen briliance. But hardware doesn't sell me. The DS has more features, BUT, I know that the games being made for it will be more unique in one way or another.
Sony is making a run for it full steam ahead. I think in NA though, the bout half year headstart the DS has will give it a lot more exposure than some people may think. It will be interesting to see how things turn out.
Welcome to Sony Sales and Marketing 101.
Rule #1: Psychological pricing is paramount. Key prices point for PSP is $199 - will be perceived as sub-$200
Rule #2: This key price point should be the most visible in all marketing, Press Releases etc. Get the price embedded in people's minds.
Rule #3: The price may exclude certain desirable functional and aesthetic elements. These could include headphones and a memory card. Even though a memory card is required to save games, it isn't technically required to play them, so we can get away with calling it 'optional'. Anything that helps bring the COGs down will help acheive Rule #1
Rule #4: To deflect any remaining attention away from buying expensive accessories at point-of-sale, offer a value bundle, and train sales staff to offer the upsell immediately upon any sign of discord
Last I checked, that was Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft Sales and Marketing 101. They all sell hardware that is missing "desirable" elements. It's been nearly a decade now that systems have been sold without memory cards, but all of a sudden its eeevvvviiiiiillllllll (*places pinky finger to lower lip*). MS includes a hard drive so no memory cards necessary, but if you want 5.1 audio or DVD playback....whoops, you're gonna have to pay extra for it.
Shit, maybe we should remind everybody that the PSP doesn't come with a pack-in game! THATS SONY FOR YA LOLOLMAO
Shit, maybe we should remind everybody that the PSP doesn't come with a pack-in game! THATS SONY FOR YA LOLOLMAO
Spiritreaver
Member
Since when is my claim just a sudden "It's evil!" comment? I complained about it on PSX, I complained about it on GC, I complained about it on PS2. I want at least a freaking packed in memory card. I'm also mostly a handheld gamer, and have never had the problem until now for obvious reasons. Luckily, like I said, Sony did do the bundle version which I like. You're probably speaking about other people, but I've always complained about it.
This also isn't marketing that's been used just by Sony, or even just in the gaming world. It's been done for decades. But just because Sony does it doesn't make it any less frustrating.
This also isn't marketing that's been used just by Sony, or even just in the gaming world. It's been done for decades. But just because Sony does it doesn't make it any less frustrating.
Look, the DS will be a very capable gaming device and the touchscreen isn't a gimmick. But this line of reasoning that it *has* to be experienced to understand it is bollocks. It's not a necessity for everyone for two reasons:Robert-GCA said:
1)Some of us are just more capable of correctly visualizing the workings of a device in our minds without necessarily having to experience it first hand to "get it". For example, I didn't need to see Tivo in action first to know I wanted it. Descriptions of how it differed from a VCR were enough for me to figure out it was a marked improvement over a VCR.
2)Most people have had the opportunity to experience an interface very similar to touchscreen - it's called a mouse. The experience largely translates. Either that or they've actually used a touchscreen - PDAs, kiosks, ATMs, etc.
Because it records programs automatically without having re-program over and over? Because it records digitally with no quality de-generation? Because real-time recording lets you skip over all the commercials just by tuning in a few minutes later?
I'm not getting a Tivo anytime soon, but you'd have to be blind not to see the obvious and immediately applicable benefits. It's like asking why you should get a CD-burner when you already have a tape deck. It's not some hardware gimmick where you have to sit around waiting for developers to think of interesting or exciting uses. You can immediately judge its worth.
My response was to the immediately preceding post...
WasabiKing
Member
mrklaw said:
For the record, this is common marketing strategies for all launch products in a new sector. It's the ones that don't use these basic skills that should lose their jobs.
You mean the 55 million kids who will probably want the next Pokemon?drohne said:
...and then Iga later admitted he was working on CV for DS anyway. He also didn't exactly place doubt on the suitabilty of DS for Castlevania, rather he was unsure of how to use it's extra features to enhance the brand.drohne said:
Depends on the market. In America and Japan, GBA has sold much faster than PS2... as usual, Europe seems to be Nintendo's achilles heel. It's also Sony's stronghold, the one market they've really made any progress over what Famicom/NES did decades ago.drohne said:
...nitpicking aside though, it's clear that DS is in trouble. A "surpise" price drop before launch is really in order (at least for Japan) and since it's clear Nintendo was willing to go as low as 10000 yen initially, they might as well just do it now. They can save the US price drop to $99-129 until March-June, whenever PSP hits...
DJ Demon J
Banned
thefit said:nintendo is afraid that now people will see things the way they really are and have been for a while.
$149.00
VS
$185.00
:lol Brilliant!
jarrod said:
as i recall, igarashi was uncertain whether the ds was appropriate for action games. it wasn't a matter of choosing just which way the ds would "enhance" castlevania. you're spinning it.
and i'm convinced kids will learn to live without pokémon, just as they've learned to live without mario and zelda. we'll see, i guess.
honestly, if any substantial number of gamers choose the ds's established brands and unfulfilled promises over the psp's undeniably shit-hot engineering, i fear for the future of gaming.
tehrik-e-insaaf
Member
I think Nintendo will be fine. They are launching first and will almost certainly sell out their entire inventory up until March. Next summer, Nintendo might want to continue growing its userbase faster than PSP (and thus expanding their lead) by dropping the price from 149.99 to 99.99 and dropping the SP to 49.99. By this time their economies of scale would have improved and they could probably price it at this level. If Sony doesn't retaliate, their pricing premium (despite the inherent value) is going to make it a tougher sell to the "average" person, as limited storage features combined with non-existant PDA functions are going to isolate the product from mainstream buyers.
That said I am really excited about both systems. While GBASP is a great system for what it does, I would really like to have a full experience during all those days I am forced to live and work out of a hotel room.
That said I am really excited about both systems. While GBASP is a great system for what it does, I would really like to have a full experience during all those days I am forced to live and work out of a hotel room.
Well, I'm going off the EGM report post E3. Iga's concern was over getting CV done on DS with it's featureset, not DS being inherently inappropriate for action games. And after all, he's decided to bring the franchise to DS anyway... I guess DS was "appropriate" after all?drohne said:
Spinning indeed.
Given that Pokemon still outsells everything else in this world, GTA included, I'd think it'll take awhile. But sure, we'll see...drohne said:
People choosing games over hardware? Disgusting!!drohne said:honestly, if any substantial number of gamers choose the ds's established brands and unfulfilled promises over the psp's undeniably shit-hot engineering, i fear for the future of gaming.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
drohne said:
And Kojima doesn't think PSP is at all suitable for MGS. Who cares?
Step 1: Stop people from having sex
Step 2: Profit
honestly, if any substantial number of gamers choose the ds's established brands and unfulfilled promises over the psp's undeniably shit-hot engineering, i fear for the future of gaming.
Shit-hot whoo hoo fun times gogo!@!
i was joking before, but come to think of it, i will fear for the industry if ds succeeds. what's to stop some charlatan from releasing some slapdash console that you control by throwing it across the room as hard as you can, or by telepathy, or by clenching and unclenching your anal sphincter. the ds is naught but hubris and promises. the CORE VIRTUES of FLEXIBLE INTERFACES and CAPABLE HARDWARE are in jeopardy. build good, open hardware, and let the development community take care of the rest. no matter what nintendo thinks, it's varied third party software that lends a console its strength and richness. that lends a console its very SOUL. actually, ds vs. psp is a pretty strong argument that we shouldn't want our software and our hardware from the same company. the INTEGRITY OF OUR GAMING VALUES are at stake, people. nintendo hates our freedom. i'm george w. bush and i approve this message.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
Hardware capable of what? Forcing developers to keep up with the Jones's in terms of budget? I fear for the future of gaming if PSP gains any substantive ground.
Edit: Removed the part where I agree with you.
Edit: Removed the part where I agree with you.
I don't think Nintendo needs to worry about PSP so much. Especially, not lower the price because of it. People often forget that the handheld market is composed of the casualest of casuals. The simplified input of the Nintendo DS + Nintendo's recognizable brand + Pokemon/Mario = significant success. Anyone who thinks DS will fail or do worse than PSP is merely pushing a fanboyish agenda. PSP, on the other hand, really needed this low price to succeed. They're not going to appeal more to the GBA fanbase than the DS will, so they need to create a new market. Which I believe they will do. With these two markedly different handhelds on the market comes two markedly different fanbases, though I have no doubt overlapping will occur, it won't be enough to take away Nintendo's dominance.
Robert-GCA
Member
drohne said:
The DS is getting more developers excited than anyother systemin recent years. Its something new and fresh. There are quotes from E3 stating that.
Varied 3rd party support, yep DS has that too. All but 1 launch title is 3rd party. In the launch window, there are games of pretty much every genre available. RPG, FPS, Adventure, Puzzle, Sports, Simulation, Action, you name it.
krypt0nian
Banned
drohne said:
So are you joking now cause this rhetoric is as tired as your "joke" post.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Robert-GCA said:
Sure... the same kind of quotes that at every presidential debate prove that both candidates have dominated the debate.
krypt0nian
Banned
Panajev2001a said:
Yes because the dev's have something to gain from hyping one system over another.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
krypt0nian said:
Sure, sure... keep going in your little world were the DS is the system that excited developers the most in the last 25 years
.The fact is that both PSP and the DS are getting developers excited.
Performance is GOOD.
You might not care, but they do.
They are excited about next-generation platforms also because they can do much much better stuff pushing their ideas from their mind to the game.
Both technology innovation and novel control methods have their place.
Developers have pretty positive towards both platforms... the only complaints I remember offhand are in regards to DS' 3D output (Criterion) and PSP's development environment/misleading specs (Koei) and market focus (Square Enix). Outside that, it's pretty positive.Panajev2001a said:
Increased profile for their game(s), better sales, improved relationship with 1st party...krypt0nian said:
Oh man....where to start? Or should I just say "try again"?
I love how an analog stick (a console standard for around a decade) is "intimidating" but controlling FPSes and platformers with a stylus...that's easy as cake! And buttons are scarrrrrry!
krypt0nian
Banned
Panajev2001a said:Sure, sure... keep going in your little world were the DS is the system that excited developers the most in the last 25 years
The fact is that both PSP and the DS are getting developers excited.
Performance is GOOD.
You might not care, but they do.
They are excited about next-generation platforms also because they can do much much better stuff pushing their ideas from their mind to the game.
Both technology innovation and novel control methods have their place.
Umm where did i say they didn't? You came in bashing the opinins of the devs and i called you on it. You have no call to devalue their views of the DS. No one said anything about technical prowess of the PSP.
De-fen-sive.
Uh huh...and since most if not all of them also dev for the PSP, they sure have something to gain. Reaching hard. Spin factory in motion.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
"People who want to play with Pikachu will need Nintendo's new-style DS machine" - Ken Kutaragi
Who smells a new advertising campaign?
Who smells a new advertising campaign?
If the screen was horizontal rather than vertical, that would be HOT for the PC games I play.PS2 KID said:plus do you use a stylus to play games on those screens rather than a joystick or mouse or control pad?
Someone who entered the conversation with totally bloated and subjective hyperbole like "The DS is getting more developers excited than anyother systemin recent years" is accusing me of spin! Oh irony, thou art my goddess...krpt0nian said:
Seriously, sucking up to any company's hardware in the press (or in press releases) has personal benefits. If you can't see that, I dunno what to say.
Ridicule is not an effective argument, fellas. You may not be aware of this, but, besides the GBA fanbase, there is a huge potential market of gamers out there who do not get into console games because it's too complicated for them. These are the millions of people who spend hours playing simple games, from solitaire to bejeweled, on the internet every day. I believe Nintendo DS, with its "just touch the screen to play" control-style, will appeal to these people unlike any other dedicated video game system has before.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
krypt0nian said:
You called me on it ?!?
LOL... so far we have heard from developers asked about the DS and talking about their DS titles that they were excited about the DS new capabilities.
We have also heard from developers asked about the PSP and talking about their PSP titles that they were excited about the PSP.
I did not bash the developers or their opinion, just spin-central that fanboys and fan-sites help sustain day in and day out.
I was mostly just amused by the idea that the definition of a casual gamer has suddenly changed from a person who "doesn't play games very frequently" to "moron who flips out when they see something with more than two big shiny buttons".
This idea that "controlling games with a stylus is not at all daunting/intimidating to non-gamers" seems at least a little dubious. So far the great majority of DS titles are not "just the touch screen to play".
paul777 said:
Well the other part of that argument is that those folks are playing games like solitaire and bewjewled which are quick/easy to get in and out off... have we seen some type of verbage from developers that they'll be moving towards putting games like that on the DS? From what I've seen we are going to continue to see what I'll term "complex-style" games, but with the DS it will allow developers to explore new control systems for those games. Your post is pretty pie in the sky.
I disagree. I think the DS will have both simple games and more complex games, hence the "pleasing both casuals and more experienced players" bit. There's nothing complex about Sega's I Would Die For You. Or Wario Ware. Or Jam with the Band. Or One-Line Puzzle. Or Puppy Times. Or Pictochat. I could go on, but I think that's enough.
nintendo are sending MIXED MESSA...alright, that is getting tiresome. anyway, it's unclear who the ds is actually aimed at. depending who you ask at nintendo, it's for older gamers, non-gamers, or exceptionally jaded gamers. i don't think the same software will please all three groups. it's a funny situtation.
and i don't see many ds games that are simpler than conventional console games. wario ware isn't for casual gamers: wario ware is a test of game literacy, a test of how quickly and instinctively you can deduce a game's rules. and it's steeped in weird game references. it's alienating and impenetrable to non-gamers. jam with the band doesn't use the touchscreen at all, surprisingly. of the announced touchscreen games, i think yoshi's touch and pac pix have the most potential. although i question whether their ideas are substantial enough to carry full games.
i think the ideal ds format would be the minigame compilation. something like kirby's superstar or incredible crisis. you wouldn't need the one stellar touchscreen idea that ds developers are obviously struggling to come up with. you'd just need several decent ideas. nintendo could just package a bunch of those e3 demos, really. i'm surprised we haven't seen anything like that.
and i don't see many ds games that are simpler than conventional console games. wario ware isn't for casual gamers: wario ware is a test of game literacy, a test of how quickly and instinctively you can deduce a game's rules. and it's steeped in weird game references. it's alienating and impenetrable to non-gamers. jam with the band doesn't use the touchscreen at all, surprisingly. of the announced touchscreen games, i think yoshi's touch and pac pix have the most potential. although i question whether their ideas are substantial enough to carry full games.
i think the ideal ds format would be the minigame compilation. something like kirby's superstar or incredible crisis. you wouldn't need the one stellar touchscreen idea that ds developers are obviously struggling to come up with. you'd just need several decent ideas. nintendo could just package a bunch of those e3 demos, really. i'm surprised we haven't seen anything like that.
jarrod said:
paul777 said:
Indeed I guess I haven't followed the software development side of the DS enough(or the portables in general), however I still don't think you can just pick all those bejeweled folks and say oh now they'll pick up a handheld.... too many of them play those easy online pick up puzzle games at work.
It'll be interesting to see of those games which end up released in the US and how they sell when/if they do. I guess that will be the best marker of whether your opinion is correct. The DS doesn't have a lock on simple to play games, and a look at the GBA SP doesn't daunt you with alot of buttons. The SP also had some simple easy to play games as well.
DJ Demon J
Banned
jarrod said:
Do you really think American casual consumers would choose names like that over names like Grand Theft Auto, Gran Turismo 4, Metal Gear Acid, etc.? I know DarienA was asking about puzzle games specifically, but in general I sometimes wonder why when pushed for games that will reach an audience for a Nintendo system people bring up such strange titles.
How about just targeting a range of consumers with a variety of software? Does Nintendo need a specific market segment to target?drohne said:
I'd say that holds more true of the GBA/GC title than what we've seen of the DS game so far, which looks to hold the fast pace but become a bit more straight forward as well. The "twist" GBA sequel seems pretty exciting too.drohne said:
Really? I thought you could touch the screen to hit the beats too?drohne said:
Drawing is a design mechanic I really hope to see explored more in DS games. Kirby seems to incoperate it too, and I'd imagine Rakugaku Okaku will as well. The surgery games use it to good effect also I'd say.drohne said:
- Status