Nintendo reserves the right to brick your console following "unauthorised use", in bid to prevent piracy (Sony Too)

LordOcidax said:
Go ahead, sue then…
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The common man doesn't have a few million dollars dedicated to a legal budget. These corporations know that and that is why they create these lengthy agreements knowing that they will probably never be challenged in a court. Doesn't mean we have to kiss their ass.
 
Topher said:
The common man doesn't have a few million dollars dedicated to a legal budget. These corporations know that and that is why they create these lengthy agreements knowing that they will probably never be challenged in a court. Doesn't mean we have to kiss their ass.
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Looks like this has been a thing for years, nobody noticed until now because the Nintendo (Switch 2) bad news is the new trend… But now people discover that Sony and probably Microsoft have the same politics in place for years… What's the next step for some of you that feels so affected by this… Avoid all three consoles? Just for curiosity…
 
LordOcidax said:
Looks like this has been a thing for years, nobody noticed until now because the Nintendo (Switch 2) bad news is the new trend… But now people discover that Sony and probably Microsoft have the same politics in place for years… What's the next step for some of you that feels so affected by this… Avoid all three consoles? Just for curiosity…
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Not true. The details of these agreements have been brought up many times in the past. Nintendo changed their user agreement and so now the changes have become news. I believe the most recent example of such a discussion before this is when Valve changed their agreement last year removed the requirement for arbitration. Nintendo isn't being treated differently here.
 
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Topher said:
Not true. The details of these agreements have been brought up many times in the past. Nintendo changed their user agreement and so now the changes have become news. I believe the most recent example of such a discussion before this is when Valve changed their agreement last year removed the requirement for arbitration. Nintendo isn't being treated differently here.
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And what about Sony?
 
To ban is one thing but to break someone else's stuff. Sounds illegal. Guess the saying two wrong makes a right is true for them.
 
Sony / MS agreements have vague language. They imply something bad might happen to your stuff.

Doesn't mention "we will release self destruct command".
 
Topher said:
Not true. The details of these agreements have been brought up many times in the past. Nintendo changed their user agreement and so now the changes have become news. I believe the most recent example of such a discussion before this is when Valve changed their agreement last year removed the requirement for arbitration. Nintendo isn't being treated differently here.
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Yeah I saw your epic 5 post thread on Steams change to remove binding arbitration.
 
Oh shit, so the other companies too... Do we know since when has this been a thing?
 
I don't know about you guys but in a world of Pirana Plant cameras and game chat footage, I think I will continue my physical game purchase policy.

Remember some people had their accounts flagged on Xbox (maybe PS too?) because it automatically uploaded inappropriate material. We don't know where this leads yet.
 
TintoConCasera said:
Oh shit, so the other companies too... Do we know since when has this been a thing?
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My Xbox 360 only connected to the Internet for a little while after I modded it...two decades ago. Obviously, Microsoft "rendered it inoperable". I don't know whether it was in the EULA. Does it matter?
 
TintoConCasera said:
Yeah probably not. They do what they want and good luck fighting in court against a giant company.
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I never felt entitled enough to want to get my hardware back after I messed with it. It's an "oops, ya got me!" situation. They have absolutely no obligation whatsoever to support their hardware while you are modifying it. They have enough to do supporting it as designed without worrying about unauthorized changes. Of course I have every right to use it as a doorstop or for scrap copper because I paid for the raw materials. Sure I can do whatever I want with all the 0's and 1's running around too, but not connected to their network while expecting support and equal treatment. Give me a fucking break with the entitlement.
 
BlackTron said:
I never felt entitled enough to want to get my hardware back after I messed with it. It's an "oops, ya got me!" situation. They have absolutely no obligation whatsoever to support their hardware while you are modifying it. They have enough to do supporting it as designed without worrying about unauthorized changes. Of course I have every right to use it as a doorstop or for scrap copper because I paid for the raw materials. Sure I can do whatever I want with all the 0's and 1's running around too, but not connected to their network while expecting support and equal treatment. Give me a fucking break with the entitlement.
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I think you should be able to do whatever you want with a product that's yours. Sure you might lose access to their servers or whatever, but the company shutting down the system completely? That should be illegal, imo.
 
TintoConCasera said:
I think you should be able to do whatever you want with a product that's yours. Sure you might lose access to their servers or whatever, but the company shutting down the system completely? That should be illegal, imo.
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I think it comes down to the question of intent, and the exact degree of "render inoperable".

Modded Switch get bricked all the time by updates, through no bad intention of Nintendo. Someone puts CFW on their Switch, loses attention, and a real firmware update bricks it. Because the CFW was not "ready" to take that update. In that way, there's a fine line between "letting you know unauthorized use will render it inoperable" and "we will beam it inoperable".

And if it IS "beamed inoperable" -is it really bricked, or a situation more like my 360 where it was just banned from the Internet? Nintendo currently uses both account and console bans. They haven't ever bricked a system on purpose yet. Are they really planning that, or just adding blanket language for what is already happening?
 
TintoConCasera said:
Oh shit, so the other companies too... Do we know since when has this been a thing?
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As far as I'm aware Sony and Microsoft have been bricking consoles for years, since the PS3/360 days via console bans. This is no different, Nintendo just wants in on the party now. Violate terms of service, get punished.
 
You will own NOTHING you will eat cockroaches for protein and you will primarily function in your meta pod and you WILL like it
 
64gigabyteram said:
being banned from xbox live doesnt mean you can't still play games on your console
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If I'm understanding correctly, it does, specifically with digital libraries, at least on PSN. A console ban, which might be accompanied with an account ban since it is a more severe punishment makes your digital purchases inaccessible. The console itself is bricked, in terms of functionality, I guess you can call it soft bricked. Bricked nonetheless.
 
near said:
If I'm understanding correctly, it does, specifically with digital libraries, at least on PSN. A console ban, which might be accompanied with an account ban since it is a more severe punishment makes your digital purchases inaccessible. The console itself is bricked, in terms of functionality, I guess you can call it soft bricked. Bricked nonetheless.
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that's true, however assuming the console wasn't banned you could always sign in with a different account.

More importantly, this does not kill physical games functionality, so if you own a physical collection you can still play your games that way with no issues. A brick would prevent even that, and basically prevent you from using the system at all.

That being said, I don't think corporations should have much control over your purchases and hardware in the first place. One nice thing about Steam and PC is that you can't get banned from using Windows.
 
64gigabyteram said:
that's true, however assuming the console wasn't banned you could always sign in with a different account.

More importantly, this does not kill physical games functionality, so if you own a physical collection you can still play your games that way with no issues. A brick would prevent even that, and basically prevent you from using the system at all.

That being said, I don't think corporations should have much control over your purchases and hardware in the first place. One nice thing about Steam and PC is that you can't get banned from using Windows.
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Nintendo's stance seems more aggressive on the surface, but in principle it's more or less the same thing they're doing as Sony and Microsoft. Most new games require the system to be online for a patch update or what have you. A console ban that restricts online functionality could in some cases render certain offline games unplayable. If you receive a console ban, you probably deserved it, it's rare that they make mistakes with this sort of thing, although I accept they do happen. Nintendo's terms of service state 'unusable in whole or in part', it's likely they have guidelines for which action to take for specific offences.

I agree with you, that they do hold too much control over how you use the console, and those concerns are valid. But I also think it is fair that if you're using it online, and taking advantage of its full functionality, that you accept the terms they have laid out in using it. That's just my opinion. They have a right to protect their IP and business interests.
 
LordOcidax said:
And what about Sony?
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This is so lame when people do this. Do you want Nintendo to do all of the bad things Sony does? When one company does something bad for consumers, do we want it to become standard? Instead of being upset or fighting against anti-consumer behavior, we (gamers) sit around with our what about <insert competing company here>? No wonder we are getting our cheeks split.
 
near said:
Nintendo's stance seems more aggressive on the surface, but in principle it's more or less the same thing they're doing as Sony and Microsoft. Most new games require the system to be online for a patch update or what have you. A console ban that restricts online functionality could in some cases render certain offline games unplayable. If you receive a console ban, you probably deserved it, it's rare that they make mistakes with this sort of thing, although I accept they do happen. Nintendo's terms of service state 'unusable in whole or in part', it's likely they have guidelines for which action to take for specific offences.

I agree with you, that they do hold too much control over how you use the console, and those concerns are valid. But I also think it is fair that if you're using it online, and taking advantage of its full functionality, that you accept the terms they have laid out in using it. That's just my opinion. They have a right to protect their IP and business interests.
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I think all these companies should be explicitly clear on what actions they believe warrants bricking a device. Just a blanket statement that they can do this is a massive overreach, imo. Wasn't until this thread that I realized that there was clauses in these agreements saying they were able to do this. That is one of the problems with these agreements; important details are buried in a shitton of legalese.
 
reinking said:
This is so lame when people do this. Do you want Nintendo to do all of the bad things Sony does? When one company does something bad for consumers, do we want it to become standard? Instead of being upset or fighting against anti-consumer behavior, we (gamers) sit around with our what about <insert competing company here>? No wonder we are getting our cheeks split.
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No… The 3 big companies are probably doing the same… on a "issue" that wasn't affecting nobody until now that was "discovered" (because Sony had that politic before Nintendo)… What's the solution? Make rules to please people in gaming forums and modders?
 
LordOcidax said:
No… The 3 big companies are probably doing the same… on a "issue" that wasn't affecting nobody until now that was "discovered" (because Sony had that politic before Nintendo)… What's the solution? Make rules to please people in gaming forums and modders?
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Skipping all the tribalistic bullshit, do you really think it is fine for any of these companies to brick a console?
 
LordOcidax said:
No… The 3 big companies are probably doing the same… on a "issue" that wasn't affecting nobody until now that was "discovered" (because Sony had that politic before Nintendo)… What's the solution? Make rules to please people in gaming forums and modders?
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You couldn't even respond without throwing a #SonyToo in there. Actually, in this case #SonyFirst. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Again, even if Sony has the ability, wouldn't you want Nintendo to be better toward their customers?
 
You just know that someone will get falsely accused of piracy and get their system bricked.

They bettter not brick people if their username is talking about piracy on forums.
 
BlackTron said:
I'm trying to read between the lines here. So you're trying to say that Nintendo should create a mesh network and/or SIM card that will automatically connect for updates regardless of user choice to connect to the Internet? And that this would be "smarter" because it would counter attempts to stall updates? Or was there some other reason?
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It will streamline and simplify console UI/UX.
Users having an unchanging UI/UX and not having to deal with system firmware updates are both positive qualities of older consoles (PS2, PS1, GC, SNES, etc.).
The future of consoles will be a return to that simplicity with firmware being maintained remotely by the platform entirely in the background.
In this future the UI will never change while the firmware will be updated more frequently with smaller updates.
 
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Scenario 1: You're scummy, you've tried to jailbreak your Switch 2, and Nintendo catches a whiff of it and bricks your system and revokes your games purchased on the eshop.

I'm not even seeing how this is an issue.

0il0NSw.jpeg
 
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reinking said:
You couldn't even respond without throwing a #SonyToo in there. Actually, in this case #SonyFirst. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Again, even if Sony has the ability, wouldn't you want Nintendo to be better toward their customers?
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I love when some of you get triggered when i mention Sony 😂… The issue here is that companies are not our friends and i understand why all of then make this kind of things (The real world is not a gaming forum)… I am just asking… What some of you expect from the big companies to do? Go ahead and mod your consoles and feel free to play pirated games 😂🤣, that's not going to happen… Of course that they will try to punish people that break their rules. And if you are not ok with this kind of policy, just talk with your wallet and done. Video games is a hobby not a necessity…also, for the 99.9% of players this is not going to be an issue.
 
awwr999999 said:
It will streamline and simplify console UI/UX.
Users having an unchanging UI/UX and not having to deal with system firmware updates are both positive qualities of older consoles (PS2, PS1, GC, SNES, etc.).
The future of consoles will be a return to that simplicity with firmware being maintained remotely by the platform entirely in the background.
In this future the UI will never change while the firmware will be updated more frequently with smaller updates.
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What is the connection between changing UI and mesh network? You can have updates over the Internet and a simple, unchanging UI.

In fact, have you ever played a Nintendo Switch?
 
BlackTron said:
What is the connection between changing UI and mesh network? You can have updates over the Internet and a simple, unchanging UI.
In fact, have you ever played a Nintendo Switch?
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I was referring more to PlayStation's changing UI but Switch has made a few small changes.
Both PS and Switch expect the user to manage system updates.
Mesh networking is just one way that systems could update without user involvement.
 
LordOcidax said:
I love when some of you get triggered when i mention Sony 😂… The issue here is that companies are not our friends and i understand why all of then make this kind of things (The real world is not a gaming forum)… I am just asking… What some of you expect from the big companies to do? Go ahead and mod your consoles and feel free to play pirated games 😂🤣, that's not going to happen… Of course that they will try to punish people that break their rules. And if you are not ok with this kind of policy, just talk with your wallet and done. Video games is a hobby not a necessity…also, for the 99.9% of players this is not going to be an issue.
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Dude. If you think I'm triggered you are just plain wrong. If anything, you seem to be a bit defensive. I've always talked with my wallet. Unfortunately for it, I generally play all consoles and PC and have every generation to this point.
 
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Deerock71 said:
Scenario 1: You're scummy, you've tried to jailbreak your Switch 2, and Nintendo catches a whiff of it and bricks your system and revokes your games purchased on the eshop.

I'm not even seeing how this is an issue.

0il0NSw.jpeg
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Scenario #2
You say something Nintendo doesn't like and they remotely brick your console, while claiming it was something else entirely.
Also there are Humans running Nintendo, it's not like they couldn't mess up and brick consoles by mistake.

The fact we are discussing this is, is an issue.
Piracy is a legitimate concern but so is a gross misuse of power on the backend.
 
Dirk Benedict said:
Scenario #2
You say something Nintendo doesn't like and they remotely brick your console, while claiming it was something else entirely.
Also there are Humans running Nintendo, it's not like they couldn't mess up and brick consoles by mistake.

The fact we are discussing this is, is an issue.
Piracy is a legitimate concern but so is a gross misuse of power on the backend.
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Well, I'm sure you'd have a case if you happened to own a Switch 2 and they bricked your system just because you said Nintendo's a cacapoopoo.
 
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Dirk Benedict said:
Scenario #2
You say something Nintendo doesn't like and they remotely brick your console, while claiming it was something else entirely.
Also there are Humans running Nintendo, it's not like they couldn't mess up and brick consoles by mistake.
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They're not going to kick users out of their digital libraries or prevent them from spending money in the store.
The way I read this is Nintendo warning users not to tamper with consoles, e.g., taking them apart, poking bent paperclips into their HW or modding.
If tampering bricks consoles no one will tamper.
The future is sealed electronics with no clear visible distinction between the structural plastic housing and the critical electronics. No access points, seams, screws or fasteners.
Taking away all visible and physical means of getting inside consoles will make tampering something obviously out-of-bounds.
 
Imagine in a few years there's millions of Switch 2 units connected online to Nintendo's network, then some malicious hacker executes the kill command to all connected Switch 2s.
 
awwr999999 said:
They're not going to kick users out of their digital libraries or prevent them from spending money in the store.
The way I read this is Nintendo warning users not to tamper with consoles, e.g., taking them apart, poking bent paperclips into their HW or modding.
If tampering bricks consoles no one will tamper.
The future is sealed electronics with no clear visible distinction between the structural plastic housing and the critical electronics. No access points, seams, screws or fasteners.
Taking away all visible and physical means of getting inside consoles will make tampering something obviously out-of-bounds.
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That is one of my main concerns regarding this. Also, looks like people need to learn 2 solder among other things, because the way tech is coming out is very flat and integrated. As you stated above. I'm all for right to repair, but as these things get more complicated, I feel at some point we're going to need a Ripper Doc or some shit. :messenger_confounded:
 
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