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[Parazels]

What kind of significant changes are you expecting in future PC handhelds? Most of the ones I've seen have roughly the same form factor and feature set. Are you just suggesting that they're going to eventually offer more power at a competitive price point with the Switch 2?

Because that was already true of the Steam Deck vs. the OG Switch and it still hasn't broken 5 million units sold. Which is great for a PC handheld, but not likely to substantially threaten the Switch 2.

Also, the first significant revision to the Switch 2 will probably be a Switch 2 Lite, which would be targeting a very different audience than that targeted by PC handhelds.



I agree that it'll be interesting to see what kind of impact PlayStation's handheld has on the market, but didn't Microsoft scuttle their handheld in favor of a partnership with ASUS? I doubt that the considerably more expensive ROG Ally X will threaten the Switch 2.



Except that this was exactly the position that the Switch was in relative to the Steam Deck and it had a negligible impact on its sales. Hell, the Steam Deck was even reasonably price competitive with the Switch and it didn't seem to matter. Meanwhile, most of the high end PC handhelds that noticably outperform the Switch 2 are substantially more expensive, and given "market conditions" that's unlikely to change anytime soon.

The Steam Deck wasn't a mainstream device.
And why are you ignoring the Xbox Ally, which is significantly cheaper than the Xbox Ally X?

 

[LordOcidax]

The Steam Deck wasn't a mainstream device.
And why are you ignoring the Xbox Ally, which is significantly cheaper than the Xbox Ally X?

Xbox Ally and Xbox Ally X aren't going to be "mainstream" either…

 

[Parazels]

Xbox Ally and Xbox Ally X aren't going to be "mainstream" either…

We'll see...

 

[blacktout]

The Steam Deck wasn't a mainstream device.

Aside from the future PS handheld, which Switch 2 competitors do you anticipate being mainstream devices?

And why are you ignoring the Xbox Ally, which is significantly cheaper than the Xbox Ally X?

The Ally is still $100 more expensive than the Switch 2 and, as far as I can tell, not substantially more powerful. It does have the advantage of having access to a larger library of titles, but that's true of all PC handhelds. I don't see why it should substantially outperform the existing ROG Ally. Like, I don't know how much value is added in consumers' eyes just by the addition of the Xbox logo. I suppose it gets the additional weight of Microsoft marketing, but that hasn't exactly worked miracles for the Series systems.

 

[Deerock71]

From Installbase.

"For the ones wondering sales of ~480K during the second month of a console launched outside the holiday season (Nov->Dec) is the best result recorded until now.
~2.08M is also the new record for the first two months (regardless of holiday season launch or not)"

 

[ReBurn]

Completely holds.

Because your two reasons are not the main reasons why the DS thrived. The main reasons are price, 1st party games, battery life, size(portability,) lack of heat, and games made for handheld.

Plus Switch 2 still retains uniqueness. Dock included. Detachable controllers. Motion control. Mouse aiming.

Pc handhelds have a disadvantage that the PSP didn't have which is the games aren't made for them specifically. So going to be less plug and play.

I just don't see them being any competition for Switch 2. They are more competition for other pc gaming hardware.

One of the redeeming qualities of the Steam Deck when it comes to plug and play is the Steam community. They make a lot of games plug and play via community layouts to map controls to the Deck. It helps me get games running that were made before PC controller support was a consideration for developers.

PC gaming has such strong community involvement across the board that I've found handheld PC gaming just as fulfilling as a dedicated handheld. Plus with a PC handheld you get the depth of a full game, something I often found lacking on the PSP and DS. On those systems I always knew I was playing a portable version of a game. A lot of times that was a turnoff.

 

[Sinozen]

Are those two things not very similar?

The difference is stock. It obviously couldn't sell well if the stock wasn't there. The Switch 1 was much harder to find.

 

[FoxMcChief]

That's like asking why is Sydney Sweeney?

 

[Crayon]

Oh I really thought the doom posting would finally work this time.

 

[bender]

Aside from the future PS handheld, which Switch 2 competitors do you anticipate being mainstream devices?

Switch 3. I heard it was a beast.

 

[LordOcidax]

That's like asking why is Sydney Sweeney?

 

[Deerock71]

A whole generation of Switch games are still available for Switch 2. It will keep selling because there is literally more than enough to play for new Switch buyers.

I bought one because my Day 1 Switch was literally on the way out. Pretty sure it got a swollen battery. Plus the upgrade is everything I wanted in a successor minus the OLED screen.

I just wish there were more frequent updates to Switch 1 games. Animal Crossing is the second best selling game on the system and it still runs at 30.

If anything, my frothing demand for Switch software increases daily since I got my Switch 2.

 

[LordOcidax]

Aside from the future PS handheld, which Switch 2 competitors do you anticipate being mainstream devices?

I want that PS6P ASAP.

 

[LakeOf9]

1) The first generations of those pc-handhelds were full of flaws, but they are being fixed.
Switch 2 won't be able to change significantly over the next 7 years, except for minor improvements (bigger storage, OLED).

2) As I said, juggernauts have not joined the race yet.

3) In a few years Nintendo can end up in a very awkward position if Switch 2 turns out to be too inferior to the alternative handhelds.

Do you understand the degree to which Nintendo has had a constant dominant monopoly over handheld gaming? Because if you did, you would understand expecting a newcomer to beat them at that game is tantamount to expecting a newcomer to beating Valve and Steam, it's utterly nonsensical

 

[Mozza]

The difference is stock. It obviously couldn't sell well if the stock wasn't there. The Switch 1 was much harder to find.

They did not make as many, Nintendo are simply more prepared this time,

 

[Deerock71]

They did not make as many, Nintendo are simply more prepared this time,

Nintendo is also very conservative with their shipment numbers. It says something that this company was willing to roll the dice on MASSIVE shipments for the Switch 2 launch, and haters are trying to row upstream in denial without a paddle.

 

[Saber]

I still think this gonna damage their long term selling, since I don't usually take account just 2 or 3 countries. Switch is pretty popular here, I doubt people here would ever buy Switch 2.

 

[yogaflame]

Does Nintendo need to be worried once PSP next gen is unveiled? I think this might even up the playing field or at least Sony can catch up a bit to Nintendo switch especially in Japan. But again, it all comes to how good the exclusives and availability of more Japan made games especially AA and A games.

 

[Ainem Enamas]

Well it is the same Switch but more powerful, awesome console simply upgraded

 

[tr1p1ex]

One of the redeeming qualities of the Steam Deck when it comes to plug and play is the Steam community. They make a lot of games plug and play via community layouts to map controls to the Deck. It helps me get games running that were made before PC controller support was a consideration for developers.

PC gaming has such strong community involvement across the board that I've found handheld PC gaming just as fulfilling as a dedicated handheld. Plus with a PC handheld you get the depth of a full game, something I often found lacking on the PSP and DS. On those systems I always knew I was playing a portable version of a game. A lot of times that was a turnoff.

SD is a niche in comparison to Switch. Nintendo really has a different customer than SD.

The point was, in case you missed it, that just like with the DS back in the day, power and graphics don't win the handheld market.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

This guy made this his whole identity.. it's crazy.

Yeah…. It's…certainly an angle!

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Well it is the same Switch but more powerful, awesome console simply upgraded

It's remarkably more comfortable and sleeker. Just feels more durable, more high quality all around. Love the giant screen, no latency whatsoever I can see. Not a tech guy but I think it's a huge step forward cosmetically as well as functionally from Switch 1.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

We'll see...

There's nothing to see, bro, PC handhelds will always be niche, very niche.

 

[ReBurn]

That's like asking why is Sydney Sweeney?

Thank you for posting this 12 hour video

 

[ReBurn]

SD is a niche in comparison to Switch. Nintendo really has a different customer than SD.

The point was, in case you missed it, that just like with the DS back in the day, power and graphics don't win the handheld market.

I know who Steam Deck is for. But the days of reduced power portable consoles have been over since the 3DS was discontinued. What won the handheld market had nothing to do with power. It was Sony pretty much giving up on the Vita and letting Nintendo have it all to themselves.

Nowadays if people want stripped down handheld games they're playing them on their phones. In case you missed it, the expectation that has been set with Switch and Steam Deck is that people who buy a Switch or a PC handheld want to play the exact same games on those devices that they play on their TV or at their battlestation. They want to be able to take their progress with them without the limitations of a portable version like we had when dedicated gaming handhelds were huge.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Record breaking sales yet some people trying to spin this as doom and gloom for Nintendo

Amazing

 

[Deerock71]

Does Nintendo need to be worried once PSP next gen is unveiled? I think this might even up the playing field or at least Sony can catch up a bit to Nintendo switch especially in Japan. But again, it all comes to how good the exclusives and availability of more Japan made games especially AA and A games.

Shit. The one thing Sony had was Squeenix, and Final Fantasy VII Integrade (sitting pretty ABOVE the PS4, and somewhere below the PS5) is going to be out before Christmas on Switch 2. Sony's the group in crisis mode behind the scenes, or a handheld wouldn't even be in the works.

 

[Deerock71]

Record breaking sales yet some people trying to spin this as doom and gloom for Nintendo

Amazing

 

[Mozza]

Right now there is no competition. But let's see what happens when Microsoft and Sony take on Nintendo in the handheld market! (And Valve, if they promote Steam Deck 2).

Nintendo are symply synonymous with handheld gaming in the general publics eyes. The gameboy cemented that position. And when their home consoles like the Gamecube and Wii U were struggling the handhelds took up the slack as it where. The fact there are multiple portable handheld p.c type devices available, but outside of the core nobody is really aware that these exist. Should pretty much tell you everythng you need to know about the competition for Nintendo in this market place... They have it all to themselves... And will continue to do so no matter what Sony or Microsoft release. The Vita was an awesome device but pretty surprised after that Sony are even bothering with a handheld. And the portal was them clearly putting their toes in the water.

The main draw is Nintendo's own first party titles on their own device as the exclusivity helps. Also the hybrid nature is also a massive draw for families. Not just talking of a video out feature here. But a dedicated dock that is marketed as the equal to the handheld side. Nintendo make as big a deal out of this as the pure handheld mode. It's basically the best of both Nintendo worlds. This is why Nintendo stuck with the Switch brand as it's a simple continuation of a successful console.

 

[Parazels]

The fact there are multiple portable handheld p.c type devices available, but outside of the core nobody is really aware that these exist.

Those are devices from non-gaming companies. No wonder an average consumer doesn't take them seriously.

 

[Robb]

That's like asking why is Sydney Sweeney?

 

[Mozza]

Those are devices from non-gaming companies. No wonder an average consumer doesn't take them seriously.

So how do you explain the Vita?, surely that was a release from a very serious gaming company.

 

[Mozza]

It's far to early in the morning for pictures of Sydney lol..

 

[Baemono]

So how do you explain the Vita?, surely that was a release from a very serious gaming company.

Too tiny

 

[Mozza]

Too tiny

But at the time in relation to it's competition the 3DS it was a serious machine.

 

[Notorious_Roy]

Does Nintendo need to be worried once PSP next gen is unveiled? I think this might even up the playing field or at least Sony can catch up a bit to Nintendo switch especially in Japan. But again, it all comes to how good the exclusives and availability of more Japan made games especially AA and A games.

Worried, no. But decent competition is always good. Nintendo needs some punches and setbacks from time to time to stay awake and not release stuff like Wii Music.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

Nintendo needs some punches and setbacks from time to time to stay awake and not release stuff like Wii Music.

Nice avatar.

 

[Mozza]

But at the time in relation to it's competition the 3DS it was a serious machine.

I suppose we need to define decent competition. I am guessing handhelds from either Microsoft or Sony. The last time you could suggest Nintendo had some competition was with the PSP. Although I do feel the very homebrew friendly nature of Sony's device helped it somewhat. You just have to look at the software ratio. The PSP sold around 80 million units and 331 million pieces of software... Compare that to the PS3 which sold 87 million units and a billion pieces of software.

 

[Notorious_Roy]

Nice avatar.

I'd kill for a new DK Jungle Beat. It was the best platformgame on GameCube. And it was bold Nintendo releasing this. So yeah, my avatar proves my point.

 

[Leopold]

Without denying the huge success that is the Switch 2, it is a bit misleading, selling faster than a new product that was following a historical flop is expected.

We had a similar situation for the Xbox One compared to 360 https://www.thetechgame.com/News/si...ne-selling-twice-as-fast-as-xbox-360-npd.html

I remembered this comment: the Xbox Series S came after the flopped Xbox One and still as bad.

 

[ecosse_011172]

They've benefitted from solid supplies but it's an absolute beast straight out of the gate and deserved as it's a brilliant console.
It sits there, docked, as I have a blast on Donkey Kong Bananza, making not a peep of noise, the amazing Pro Controller feels amazing, many years of fun to come.

 

[daxgame]

My take:

- it's still too early to make longer-term assumptions. The Wii also started off with a bang (relative to the time). It sold well in the end, but "just" 100 million, because it declined quite fast. I'm talking about the trajectory here, without focusing too much on the numbers.
- I expect Nintendo to support SW2 more than the Wii, but still, the price increases in HW and SW will cut off a small part of the more casual userbase. Nintendo has a new challenge right now on how to attract the same customers of Switch 1 and potentially new customers, without having a strong "novelty" effect like the first iteration of the console.
- This doesn't change the fact that it's doing stellar, and after the first 2 months it's not just about "putting stock out there". If production keeps up, I expect this year to be closer to 20 million than to the forecast 15 million.

 

[Mozza]

They've benefitted from solid supplies but it's an absolute beast straight out of the gate and deserved as it's a brilliant console.
It sits there, docked, as I have a blast on Donkey Kong Bananza, making not a peep of noise, the amazing Pro Controller feels amazing, many years of fun to come.

Same here... mine is glued to the dock lol... And yes the new pro controller feels very nice.

 

[Hyet]

On one hand I love the console and thinks i deserves success and support. On the other hand I see how Nintendo is handling it and I the following issues and I wish for sales slowdown:

• Extremely poor, misleading communication from the start, sometimes actively hiding price information
• Terrible, unpredictable pricing strategy
• Too reliant on Switch 2 editions (at this point in time the double their exclusive, retail aviable games, for Switch 2)
• Weird policy with announcing release dates (No metroid or Hyrule Warriors dates despite having gameplay before Air riders? Why announce Splatoon Raiders on the App without a launch window?)
• Bullshit Key-card debacle with no end in sight
• Not giving devs access to devkits even when the console is out

 

[Ainem Enamas]

It's remarkably more comfortable and sleeker. Just feels more durable, more high quality all around. Love the giant screen, no latency whatsoever I can see. Not a tech guy but I think it's a huge step forward cosmetically as well as functionally from Switch 1.

Yes, it's simply a continuation of a excellent console
I really like that devs can focus on a single focused hardware, for exclusives, I'm playing TOTK - and it's a Switch 1 game, the game is so fucking advanced and runs basically on an old mobile hardware. This is why I really like exclusives for one specific hardware.

 

[KungFucius]

I'm still pissed off about this reporting. People are implying it means something when the circumstances are very different. Switch 1 launched with a relatively soft supply because Wii U failed. Nintendo was cautious but ramped up production when it became clear that it would succeed. It went on to sell 150 million. Switch 2 launched with a big supply and is not even sold out months later. Did Nintendo flood US supply to avoid tariffs for a bit? Probably, but regardless it sold 2M in 2 months. Estimates put total US sales of Switch 1 at or above 50M. So at most 4% of Switch 1 owners upgraded. That is not very impressive.

Look, I like mine and my kids love it. I got MK, DK, Online expansion for the family, a pro controller and Kirby and have 250 loaded in eshop credit and am considering getting a second one. I am not an antagonist, but really can you say it is doing great with such limited data and comparing to other consoles? No. Be honest people, stop making dumb people dumber by insinuating A vs B is meaningful without the larger context.

The Wii U situation is irrelevant. The original Switch was a success right out of the gate and just continued to sell well.

It is not irrelevant, it determined Nintendo's initial manufacturing capacity. If Switch came after the Wii, they would have made a significant percentage more at launch and from the start. The comparison between SW1 and SW2 would look different.

The Ally is still $100 more expensive than the Switch 2 and, as far as I can tell, not substantially more powerful. It does have the advantage of having access to a larger library of titles, but that's true of all PC handhelds. I don't see why it should substantially outperform the existing ROG Ally. Like, I don't know how much value is added in consumers' eyes just by the addition of the Xbox logo. I suppose it gets the additional weight of Microsoft marketing, but that hasn't exactly worked miracles for the Series systems.

The Xbox version says one thing to me as a Gamepass subscriber with kids that play Gamepass, and a lot of Minecraft, everything is going to work smoothly. It makes it an interesting option.

 

[Mozza]

I'm still pissed off about this reporting. People are implying it means something when the circumstances are very different. Switch 1 launched with a relatively soft supply because Wii U failed. Nintendo was cautious but ramped up production when it became clear that it would succeed. It went on to sell 150 million. Switch 2 launched with a big supply and is not even sold out months later. Did Nintendo flood US supply to avoid tariffs for a bit? Probably, but regardless it sold 2M in 2 months. Estimates put total US sales of Switch 1 at or above 50M. So at most 4% of Switch 1 owners upgraded. That is not very impressive.

Look, I like mine and my kids love it. I got MK, DK, Online expansion for the family, a pro controller and Kirby and have 250 loaded in eshop credit and am considering getting a second one. I am not an antagonist, but really can you say it is doing great with such limited data and comparing to other consoles? No. Be honest people, stop making dumb people dumber by insinuating A vs B is meaningful without the larger context.

It is not irrelevant, it determined Nintendo's initial manufacturing capacity. If Switch came after the Wii, they would have made a significant percentage more at launch and from the start. The comparison between SW1 and SW2 would look different.

The Xbox version says one thing to me as a Gamepass subscriber with kids that play Gamepass, and a lot of Minecraft, everything is going to work smoothly. It makes it an interesting option.

The casuals that bought a Wii had simply moved onto other things. My point was this is not the case with the transition between the original Switch and the new model. Which was my point about it being irrelevant.

 

[Zacfoldor]

I'm still pissed off about this reporting. People are implying it means something when the circumstances are very different. Switch 1 launched with a relatively soft supply because Wii U failed. Nintendo was cautious but ramped up production when it became clear that it would succeed. It went on to sell 150 million. Switch 2 launched with a big supply and is not even sold out months later. Did Nintendo flood US supply to avoid tariffs for a bit? Probably, but regardless it sold 2M in 2 months. Estimates put total US sales of Switch 1 at or above 50M. So at most 4% of Switch 1 owners upgraded. That is not very impressive.

Look, I like mine and my kids love it. I got MK, DK, Online expansion for the family, a pro controller and Kirby and have 250 loaded in eshop credit and am considering getting a second one. I am not an antagonist, but really can you say it is doing great with such limited data and comparing to other consoles? No. Be honest people, stop making dumb people dumber by insinuating A vs B is meaningful without the larger context.

It is not irrelevant, it determined Nintendo's initial manufacturing capacity. If Switch came after the Wii, they would have made a significant percentage more at launch and from the start. The comparison between SW1 and SW2 would look different.

The Xbox version says one thing to me as a Gamepass subscriber with kids that play Gamepass, and a lot of Minecraft, everything is going to work smoothly. It makes it an interesting option.

It is very relevant that Switch 2 has the best sales of any console of all time at this point in its lifecycle and with all due respect I believe you are being the obtuse one for not acknowledging its relevancy. You have made up some excuse in your head for why you don't think this is impressive with big leaps in logic about how the Switch 1 would have done without acknowledging all the other consoles it also beat. You have worked backwards from what you want the result to be to make up a head canon about the situation but it isn't that complicated. The sales are record breaking at this point. You may not like it, but accept it. Just wait till after the holidays, you are gonna have a hard time marginalizing these feats of strength after that.

 

[Deerock71]

It is very relevant that Switch 2 has the best sales of any console of all time at this point in its lifecycle and with all due respect I believe you are being the obtuse one for not acknowledging its relevancy. You have made up some excuse in your head for why you don't think this is impressive with big leaps in logic about how the Switch 1 would have done without acknowledging all the other consoles it also beat. You have worked backwards from what you want the result to be to make up a head canon about the situation but it isn't that complicated. The sales are record breaking at this point. You may not like it, but accept it. Just wait till after the holidays, you are gonna have a hard time marginalizing these feats of strength after that.

The fact that they say it's the best two month stretch for any console ever REALLY says something. How can anyone formulate anything negative in their head regarding the Switch 2's appeal when confronted with that?

 

[tr1p1ex]

I know who Steam Deck is for. But the days of reduced power portable consoles have been over since the 3DS was discontinued. What won the handheld market had nothing to do with power. It was Sony pretty much giving up on the Vita and letting Nintendo have it all to themselves.

Nowadays if people want stripped down handheld games they're playing them on their phones. In case you missed it, the expectation that has been set with Switch and Steam Deck is that people who buy a Switch or a PC handheld want to play the exact same games on those devices that they play on their TV or at their battlestation. They want to be able to take their progress with them without the limitations of a portable version like we had when dedicated gaming handhelds were huge.

No. You're confusing various information.

The handheld market is still guided by price and battery and size/heat/weight along with games and plug and play etc. The reasons the DS won are still in place.

The handheld market is a reduced power portable console market still. (and btw, the latest iphones are as powerful as the Switch 2 and the next iphone is releasing in a month.)

The fact the very casual segment of the DS market went to phones is a different topic.

People who buy Switch want to play Nintendo games by and large. Nintendo console and handheld merged so the handheld game is the console game. And yes they do like playing the full 3rd party game they have heard of. They also like just playing games from 3rd parties if the game is good.

GAmes are also more scalable today. Economics pushed that as much as anything. The big reason you can play the game on lesser devices is due to that. I mean it used to be you couldn't play the pc game on the console because the console couldn't handle it. But now they target console first and the pc version has better graphics/frames as your pc allows. And Fortnite is so scalable it plays on phones too.


And as for the pc gaming handheld niche, it still remains to be seen how far pc gaming handhelds go. I could see it it becoming a bigger thing as tastes change, graphics upgrades not only bring diminishing returns on giant pc rigs but the rise in price keeps outstripping inflation. But it seems more competition for other pc gaming hardware than anything.

In Valve's case, they did STeamdeck to protect their store. They saw pc games getting bought for full price on the Switch like Skyrim and Witcher 3 back in 2017. That was a threat.

And so they put out the SD. And they probably stole a few (potential) customers from Nintendo. But ... SD has done ~8mn unit sales in 3 1/2 years. That's less than Wii U numbers which caused Nintendo to fold console into handheld. It's not representative of the handheld market that Nintendo is dominant in.