Support NeoGAF

[PeteBull]

Totalitarianism is what that is. Not communism.
The communist promise of freedom and equality gets hijacked by the concentrated power of the government in power.


Communism is an impossible utopia to achieve. Even Marx knew that. He knew that it can only occur if everyone wants it but knew full well that human nature will mean that not everyone will want it at the same time ever.

I'll be quiet now. I don't want no trouble.

As a person who was born and actually lived in communist country, it never works for the simple reason, we as humans are all greedy af creatures, and we always go for the path of least resistance, no matter if we live under communism or capitalism.
In communism effort/hard work isnt rewarded, so ppl slacking hard(ofc there are some noble exceptions, but in general, ppl do slacking off hard) get same/close to same(which means very low) salary/reward as those who put in tons of effort, and that is the reason economy under communism is always destroyed, simply no incentive to put any/much effort when u arent or are barely rewarded for it.

BTW, back in the days we had tons of jokes about communists and communist party- just a few basic short snippets:

What is most persistent thing in Soviet Union- temporary difficulties

Who is a communist- a man who read works of Marx and Lenin.
Who is anticommunist then- a man who read and understood them

What is better, capitalist or socialist hell?
Socialist ofc, they often lack fire, cauldron is going tru repairs whole time and devils hang out at the party meetings every day

What happens when they build socialism in the Sahara Desert?
They gonna start having trouble with sand deliveries.

What is the difference between democracy and socialist democracy?
As big as the difference between normal and electric chair

Iwan walking tru Red Square, wearing only one shoe.
Militia officer noticed and asking- Did u lose a shoe, Towarishch? Nope, i found it!

 

[Great Auk]

You're right but the concern isn't that China will "own" the U.S. (they never can), but that it can exert influence.

All that needs to happen is China invades Taiwan and they have the United States by the balls.

Almost all semiconductors are produced there. So we basically can't build anything without Taiwan.

This to me is by far the greatest security risk.

 

[Ceadeus]

Nintendo delays Switch 2 U.S. pre-orders due to tariffs, Canada delayed too

Nintendo says that these changes only apply to the U.S. and Canada's pre-orders are still set to start on April 9.

mobilesyrup.com

cool

 

[Javi97]

You're right but the concern isn't that China will "own" the U.S. (they never can), but that it can exert influence.

in an imaginary scenario where neither Trump nor Biden would have imposed tariffs on China 8 years ago and the United States would have continued with its deindustrialization and left China engulfing the entire global industry once 90% of the steel industry depends on China, 90% of rare earth extraction depends on China, 95% of the Semiconductor market depends on China and Taiwan (annexed), all automobile factories. They are in China, etc., in this scenario the United States would be naked in the face of a possible war with China or Russia. If they decide that they are no longer going to trade with them, then there will be nothing the United States can do.

 

[Idleyes]

That's great but the the problem is how is this plan supposed to help anything? I'm going to guess neither of us are economists but I've yet to find one who can explain how this is supposed to go down. I've seen plenty of people say that it's going to bring back manufacturing but word on the street is that economics is a little complicated and I want to know if there are any steps in between unprecedented tariffs and getting manufacturing back to the states.

You're right to ask and be concerned for sure. Tariffs might protect certain industries in the short term, but without a well thought out plan, like tax incentives, infrastructure upgrades, and workforce development, it's hard to see how that actually results in sustained domestic manufacturing growth. If I recall correctly The Trump administration proposed lowering the corporate tax rate from 21% to 15% for companies manufacturing within the U.S.

And there is this regarding semi conductors.


But these are just the two that come to mind off the top of my head, I'm sure there are other efforts underway. Whether any of what Trump does will actually work, is a whole different debate.

 

[Idleyes]

in an imaginary scenario where neither Trump nor Biden would have imposed tariffs on China 8 years ago and the United States would have continued with its deindustrialization and left China engulfing the entire global industry once 90% of the steel industry depends on China, 90% of rare earth extraction depends on China, 95% of the Semiconductor market depends on China and Taiwan (annexed), all automobile factories. They are in China, etc., in this scenario the United States would be naked in the face of a possible war with China or Russia. If they decide that they are no longer going to trade with them, then there will be nothing the United States can do.

Alright, I need to take a quick break and calm the inner doomsday guy in me.

That's legitimate concern, but it's highly exaggerated. Besides, If the U.S. relied 90% on China for semiconductors, China wouldn't need a war, it could just cut off exports and create chaos. regardless, China doesn't want a war with the U.S., and the U.S. doesn't want a war with China, because that kind of conflict would leave everyone wrecked, with nothing left worth fighting for.

 

[FireFly]

You're right to ask and be concerned for sure. Tariffs might protect certain industries in the short term, but without a well thought out plan, like tax incentives, infrastructure upgrades, and workforce development, it's hard to see how that actually results in sustained domestic manufacturing growth. If I recall correctly The Trump administration proposed lowering the corporate tax rate from 21% to 15% for companies manufacturing within the U.S.

And there is this regarding semi conductors.


But these are just the two that come to mind off the top of my head, I'm sure there are other efforts underway. Whether any of what Trump does will actually work, is a whole different debate.

The Trump tariffs are indiscriminate, so they can't be targeted at a particular industry. Unless Trumps' plan is to make every industry competitive at the same time, while actually removing competitive pressures.

 

[Javi97]

Alright, I need to take a quick break and calm the inner doomsday guy in me.

That's legitimate concern, but it's highly exaggerated. Besides, If the U.S. relied 90% on China for semiconductors, China wouldn't need a war, it could just cut off exports and create chaos. regardless, China doesn't want a war with the U.S., and the U.S. doesn't want a war with China, because that kind of conflict would leave everyone wrecked, with nothing left worth fighting for.

Also in this scenario, the United States is no longer the leading world power, China takes its place and they make all the decisions. The United States must obey or else China will threaten to block the sale of what they see fit (as they are already doing now with rare earths).

 

[KungFucius]

This is hilarious.

People were blaming the current price on Tariffs.

I guess that was bullshit.

Huh. They left price out of the direct and then guessed they would be 10% instead of whatever garbage number Trump got from ChatGPT and now they are thinking it should 400 ~ 25% instead of 400 + ~10%. That is a guess but it is actually a guess that makes sense. Not saying it couldn't be tariffs because they want to raise it now. They knew there were threats of tariffs and they are a business, of course they originally priced what they thought in. It is asinine to think otherwise.

 

[Idleyes]

Almost all semiconductors are produced there. So we basically can't build anything without Taiwan.

The US makes it's own semiconductors, it's just not leading edge like Taiwan. Taiwan produces over 90% of the world's most advanced chips, not the only chips.

 

[Idleyes]

Also in this scenario, the United States is no longer the leading world power, China takes its place and they make all the decisions. The United States must obey or else China will threaten to block the sale of what they see fit (as they are already doing now with rare earths).

This must be one of those Kingdom Hearts universes where China unlocked all the keyblades and the U.S. is just stuck grinding side quests for XP.

 

[Javi97]

This must be one of those Kingdom Hearts universes where China unlocked all the keyblades and the U.S. is just stuck grinding side quests for XP.

This is the scenario in Trump's mind

 

[whyman]

Nintendo Switch 2 Preorders Sold Out - Games & Accessories Available

It's unclear if Nintendo Switch 2 preorders will be restocked at Walmart, Target, Best Buy, or GameStop ahead of the console's June 5 launch.

www.gamespot.com

Update: Vietnam (were the Switch 2 is produced) want to drop the Tariffs to zero.

Wow. This is literally the nightmare scenario economists brought up. All production moves to Vietnam instead of US. 10/10

 

[Great Auk]

Wow. This is literally the nightmare scenario economists brought up. All production moves to Vietnam instead of US. 10/10

I actually think as long as we diversify manufacturing over many countries, it's still a win for the West.

We can't have one country like China being responsible for so much of the world's manufacturing.

 

[Idleyes]

This is the scenario in Trump's mind

Well it's historically an American way of thinking. When the U.S. is cornered, historically it doesn't just defend or retreat. It often responds with overwhelming force. For example two buildings destroyed have led to one country per building being invaded. When Russia started dicking around with Nukes, the US has made it clear that crossing the line = complete global destruction. The Japanese killed 2,500 US citizens (mostly military personnel) just to delay the US from entering a war and the US retaliated by immediately killing around 40,000 people and 200,000 over time (mostly civilians). What makes you believe the USA wouldn't react the same when global economic conditions threaten it. I mean it's not like you're not looking at the response VIA tariffs right now.

 

[ArtHands]

Glad that I am not an American

 

[Great Auk]

Well it's historically an American way of thinking. When the U.S. is cornered, historically it doesn't just defend or retreat. It often responds with overwhelming force. For example two buildings destroyed have led to one country per building being invaded. When Russia started dicking around with Nukes, the US has made it clear that crossing the line = complete global destruction. The Japanese killed 2,500 US citizens (mostly military personnel) just to delay the US from entering a war and the US retaliated by immediately killing around 40,000 people and 200,000 over time (mostly civilians). What makes you believe the USA wouldn't react the same when global economic conditions threaten it. I mean it's not like you're not looking at the response VIA tariffs right now.

If people/countries don't like the USA's response to provocations then maybe they shouldn't fcck with us.

"Hmm, these wasps keep stinging me when I touch their hive, I'm going to keep touching it!"

 

[Great Auk]

Glad that I am not an American

How much is the Switch 2 listed in your country?

 

[Idleyes]

As a person who was born and actually lived in communist country, it never works for the simple reason, we as humans are all greedy af creatures, and we always go for the path of least resistance, no matter if we live under communism or capitalism.
In communism effort/hard work isnt rewarded, so ppl slacking hard(ofc there are some noble exceptions, but in general, ppl do slacking off hard) get same/close to same(which means very low) salary/reward as those who put in tons of effort, and that is the reason economy under communism is always destroyed, simply no incentive to put any/much effort when u arent or are barely rewarded for it.

BTW, back in the days we had tons of jokes about communists and communist party- just a few basic short snippets:

What is most persistent thing in Soviet Union- temporary difficulties

Who is a communist- a man who read works of Marx and Lenin.
Who is anticommunist then- a man who read and understood them

What is better, capitalist or socialist hell?
Socialist ofc, they often lack fire, cauldron is going tru repairs whole time and devils hang out at the party meetings every day

What happens when they build socialism in the Sahara Desert?
They gonna start having trouble with sand deliveries.

What is the difference between democracy and socialist democracy?
As big as the difference between normal and electric chair

Iwan walking tru Red Square, wearing only one shoe.
Militia officer noticed and asking- Did u lose a shoe, Towarishch? Nope, i found it!

I like this one.

In capitalism, the rich get richer.
In communism, everyone gets poorer, together.

 

[GudOlRub]

In the end he'll back off before implementing those ridiculous April 9th tariffs, some smaller countries will bend the knee and offer favourable deals to the US, the big players will throw huge tantrums but won't do anything that threatens the complete collapse of the global economy. They'll do just enough to push prices up a bit but not enough to make people riot.
And finally the rich will end up richer, the poor will end up poorer and the middle class will keep disappearing into nothingness. Just don't forget, you're not a person, you're a product.
Although I wouldn't mind something spicier to be honest. Nooks when?

Oh and Nintendo will use the excuse to sell the Switch 2 for 600$ but that's not unexpected really.

 

[Idleyes]

If people/countries don't like the USA's response to provocations then maybe they shouldn't fcck with us.

"Hmm, these wasps keep stinging me when I touch their hive, I'm going to keep touching it!"

I get the whole "don't mess with us" attitude, but let's not forget, other countries are made up of people too. And people don't just roll over when they're threatened, they organize, push back, and evolve. Just like we do.

Take Japan before WWII. They were doing what every empire had done up to that point, expanding, grabbing territory, and trying to grow. At the same time, the U.S. was supplying about 80% of Japan's oil (typical capitalist business-as-usual), and also building economic ties with China, which it saw as an emerging opportunity. Japan's brutal behavior in China, especially things like the Rape of Nanking, didn't sit well with the American public or government. So the U.S. responded by cutting off Japan's oil supply. Japan saw that as the U.S. siding with China, and from their perspective, that was an existential threat. So they struck first at Pearl Harbor, hoping to keep the U.S. out of the Pacific. It backfired BIGLY.

The point is: nations do what nations do. They chase resources, power, and survival. The U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on that logic, it's just human nature playing out on a geopolitical scale. Conflict is inevitable, because land, resources, and influence have always dictated both wars and peace agreements.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Whether any of what Trump does will actually work, is a whole different debate.

There's going to be a very simple way to tell if his plan is working: when/if he starts blaming people, it isn't working.

 

[hinch7]

The Trump tariffs are indiscriminate, so they can't be targeted at a particular industry. Unless Trumps' plan is to make every industry competitive at the same time, while actually removing competitive pressures.

Yeah that's not right. Trump done this as a power move; so they, and US citizens are less reliant on China (essentially hurt them). The rest of the tariffs are just collateral.

 

[Idleyes]

There's going to be a very simple way to tell if his plan is working: when/if he starts blaming people, it isn't working.

 

[Rentahamster]

You are talking of Soviet style communism really. Communism as an ideology is utophia.

If it's only on paper, and hardly ever worked out very well in history, is it really? I see the appeal but as long as scarcity exists, well regulated free market capitalism is probably our best bet to efficiently allocate resources to maximize productivity. Maybe we can revisit communism again when we reach Star Trek levels of self sufficiency.

 

[Kittehkraken]

You're right to ask and be concerned for sure. Tariffs might protect certain industries in the short term, but without a well thought out plan, like tax incentives, infrastructure upgrades, and workforce development, it's hard to see how that actually results in sustained domestic manufacturing growth. If I recall correctly The Trump administration proposed lowering the corporate tax rate from 21% to 15% for companies manufacturing within the U.S.

And there is this regarding semi conductors.


But these are just the two that come to mind off the top of my head, I'm sure there are other efforts underway. Whether any of what Trump does will actually work, is a whole different debate.

That TSMC investment started happening last year.

Biden-Harris Administration Announces Preliminary Terms with TSMC, Expanded Investment from Company to Bring World’s Most Advanced Leading-Edge Technology to the U.S.

With Up to $6.6 Billion in Proposed CHIPS Direct Funding, TSMC Announces 2 Nanometer Technology at Second Fab and a New Third Fab to Produce 2 Nanometer or More Advanced Chips Proposed CHIPS Investment in Arizona Would Support AI, High-Performance Computing, 5G/6G Communications, and More...

www.commerce.gov

 

[Crayon]

That TSMC investment started happening last year.

Biden-Harris Administration Announces Preliminary Terms with TSMC, Expanded Investment from Company to Bring World’s Most Advanced Leading-Edge Technology to the U.S.

With Up to $6.6 Billion in Proposed CHIPS Direct Funding, TSMC Announces 2 Nanometer Technology at Second Fab and a New Third Fab to Produce 2 Nanometer or More Advanced Chips Proposed CHIPS Investment in Arizona Would Support AI, High-Performance Computing, 5G/6G Communications, and More...

www.commerce.gov

 

[EviLore]

If it's only on paper, and hardly ever worked out very well in history, is it really? I see the appeal but as long as scarcity exists, well regulated free market capitalism is probably our best bet to efficiently allocate resources to maximize productivity. Maybe we can revisit communism again when we reach Star Trek levels of self sufficiency.

Even in something like Star Trek TNG post-scarcity utopia, you can be sure that we'd come up with a way to signal status and compete with each other. We'd still stratify based on education, athletics, attractiveness, skills, and accomplishments, one way or another.

 

[Ashamam]

Even in something like Star Trek TNG post-scarcity utopia

Never happen, artificial barriers would be put in place to ensure that. Individuals with control over the means of production like having that power, there is no altruistic agenda to lift everyone up to their quality of life, and sure as hell not to drop their own.

At best its to maintain clear strata with some improvements down the chain, but I suspect the reality is the status quo is preferred and a widening wealth gap is the goal of a fair percentage up the top.

 

[Great Auk]

Even in something like Star Trek TNG post-scarcity utopia, you can be sure that we'd come up with a way to signal status and compete with each other. We'd still stratify based on education, athletics, attractiveness, skills, and accomplishments, one way or another.

Agree. In the end we are just another animal species on the Earth that has a drive to collect resources, attain status, secure a mate, and pass on our genes.

 

[Generic]

There's going to be a very simple way to tell if his plan is working: when/if he starts blaming people, it isn't working.

I hope it works, I don't want to be poor.

 

[Mistake]

I think the biggest news out of all of this is what nintendo thinks they can get away with for digital prices, especially for decades old games. It's insane

 

[XXL]

Trump done this as a power move; so they, and US citizens are less reliant on China (essentially hurt them). The rest of the tariffs are just collateral.

 

[Lionel Richie]

I hope it works, I don't want to be poor.

I'm hoping you won't have to read a lot about Jerome Powell on Truth Social.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I actually think as long as we diversify manufacturing over many countries, it's still a win for the West.

We can't have one country like China being responsible for so much of the world's manufacturing.

Socities can't be changed for the better via taxes. That's the communist/leftie textbook and always leads to failure.

China is a technocracy that has prioritized the development of skilled workers and technology while in the West the focus was on gender studies. You can't reverse that gap with fucking taxes, more so if you are taxing natural allies. USA and Europe are now playing catch up because of their negligent incompetence.

 

[jcorb]

Seems more likely this was being done in response to all of their social media being bombarded with negativity over their pricing structure.

This keeps things vague enough that they're essentially immune to criticism in the interim. Which, to be clear, the ongoing tariff war most definitely *is* a significant factor.

Either way, this is definitely a concerning predicament we're all in (at least here in the States). Considering Trump threatened tariffs last time he was in office, I do have concern that other countries may have been preparing for the possibility of another tariff war, and may be less likely to make concessions.

 

[Idleyes]

That TSMC investment started happening last year.

Biden-Harris Administration Announces Preliminary Terms with TSMC, Expanded Investment from Company to Bring World’s Most Advanced Leading-Edge Technology to the U.S.

With Up to $6.6 Billion in Proposed CHIPS Direct Funding, TSMC Announces 2 Nanometer Technology at Second Fab and a New Third Fab to Produce 2 Nanometer or More Advanced Chips Proposed CHIPS Investment in Arizona Would Support AI, High-Performance Computing, 5G/6G Communications, and More...

www.commerce.gov

The overlap between Republican and Democratic administrations is more significant than die-hard supporters on either side would like to admit, they mostly differ in method, not always in goal. Man, I still watch those long Obama speeches where he goes on about bringing manufacturing jobs back to middle-class America, even while admitting companies will always chase lower costs. And yeah, I liked (and still like) Obama, because he's Black (not African American Black but Black).

Come at me, bro!

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[Vaquilla]

How much is the Switch 2 listed in your country?

$427 USD equivalent.

 

[Thaimasker]

Man, I still watch those long Obama speeches where he goes on about bringing manufacturing jobs back to middle-class America, even while admitting companies will always chase lower costs.

This reminds me of how every election there is a focus on coal mining jobs.. What are we.. In the 1800's? These manufacturing jobs are also highly undesirable. But it sounds good to key demos in swing states.

 

[adamsapple]

So what are we thinking is gonna happen.

- Returns to pre-orders at the same price

- Increase by $50 or more and then returns to pre-orders

?

 

[demigod]

So what are we thinking is gonna happen.

- Returns to pre-orders at the same price

- Increase by $50 or more and then returns to pre-orders

?

$549 and $599.

 

[reinking]

So what are we thinking is gonna happen.

- Returns to pre-orders at the same price

- Increase by $50 or more and then returns to pre-orders

?

 

[Sakura]

So what are we thinking is gonna happen.

- Returns to pre-orders at the same price

- Increase by $50 or more and then returns to pre-orders

?

They could just be taking a wait and see approach. There is no guarantee the tariffs will still be in place by the time it releases.

 

[saintjules]

 

[Kenneth Haight]

How are tariffs benefiting me as an American again?

The switch 3 and PS6 will be American built

Spoiler

no they won't

 

[whatup]

I actually don't think tariffs will correct the issues but there are issues. Cost of goods is not isolated from wages. This effects Europe more than America as the economy is generally worse but if you for instance lose much of your industry due to cheap imports, there is a cost to the consumer even if stuff is cheaper. There is a direct cost of artificially increasing the price of a good either through a tariff or a sales tax, so something is now $150 instead of $100, but there is also an indirect cost of losing lower middle income jobs. So if an automotive plant closes and people there were earning $60,000 and that was replaced with Amazon warehouse with half the wage. Yes, something is now $50 more expensive but those people are $30,000 down and this can be repeated. No one knows what wages would be now if we didn't deindustrialise. Yes things would be more expensive but wages could be a lot higher.

Wages are up! Wages are up! Median wage are up you rube! We are richer than all of these other countries!

And which "high wage" factory jobs do you think are coming back? You think we're going to pay people $60k per year to make Nike sneakers in Georgia or whatever? Are you insane?!

 

[ItsGreat]

If it's only on paper, and hardly ever worked out very well in history, is it really? I see the appeal but as long as scarcity exists, well regulated free market capitalism is probably our best bet to efficiently allocate resources to maximize productivity. Maybe we can revisit communism again when we reach Star Trek levels of self sufficiency.

Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism.

That's the ideal future.

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture for details

 

[captainnapalm]

So what are we thinking is gonna happen.

- Returns to pre-orders at the same price

- Increase by $50 or more and then returns to pre-orders

?

I think most likely the US and Japan will make a deal within the coming days and weeks and the price will stay the same.

One thing I will say having looked into it more is these tariffs the US has imposed are not reciprocal in the way the Trump administration are saying - they are in some cases significantly higher - or at least the methods to determine them are not very clear. What's most likely going on is that Trump is using his typical tactic after asking for the moon to force countries to the table - and it will probably be successful. It's certainly a risky strategy though as some places like China or the EU could decide to play hardball. I think for sure Japan will come to the table though - according to some reports they already have.

 

[ItsGreat]

Wages are up! Wages are up! Median wage are up you rube! We are richer than all of these other countries!

And which "high wage" factory jobs do you think are coming back? You think we're going to pay people $60k per year to make Nike sneakers in Georgia or whatever? Are you insane?!

Nike must be on to something…