Father_Brain
Banned
Iwata (probably) isn't saying that Nintendo hasn't been targeting children enough. He's saying that they haven't been targeting children smartly enough.
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Nintendo's Iwata: "Our approach to targeting children has been inadequate"
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
I think its quite clear that this ship has sailed for them, and it did so a long time ago. If they want to stay relevant, they need to be different, but then again, I think it would also be wise of them to have a little bit more content that is popular among children these days, and not only stuff that appeals to nostalgia. Which means ditching F-Zero, Metroid and possibly Zelda, for stuff like Minecraft, God of War, Cod and GTA-type games.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Assuming Iwata meant they need to target kids better, they should consider doing multimedia like animated tv shows or movies based on their lesser known IPs. Take series like Kid Icarus and turn them into household names, and follow them up with new games.
If Iwata meant that targeting kids is not enough, then they should be funding more exclusives like Bayonetta 2 and X that appeal to an older demographic. Those two games are not really enough, and that is pretty much all we know about that is coming. Perhaps it is time for Nintendo to collect Shinji Mikami's head!
Or why not both?
If Iwata meant that targeting kids is not enough, then they should be funding more exclusives like Bayonetta 2 and X that appeal to an older demographic. Those two games are not really enough, and that is pretty much all we know about that is coming. Perhaps it is time for Nintendo to collect Shinji Mikami's head!
Or why not both?
Spieler Eins
Member
Well yeah. They've so desperately tried to get back the family/casual audience, that their console ended up without any kind of identity and no system selling attributes for any big group at all. If kids are in fact interested in Nintendo titles, they will get them on a 3DS with the same kind of experiences as on WiiU but even more alongside that and a more affordable price for the parents. And especially the current Mario games are really hard to distinguish anyway, even more so for non-gamers - so why get the more expensive one? On the other hand, the casual audience consists of late adopters, they ain't gonna pay 300 bucks for a new pack of Wii Fit. Despite popular belief, the original Wii started really strong not only because of ,,soccer moms'' and kiddies, but dedicated gamers also, who were offered a varied launch year lineup including a highly anticipated Zelda title right at the beginning. (Not to mention, the Wiimote was intriguing to everyone, the gamepad one the other hand doesn't even interest Nintendo's developers) Now, while more dedicated gamers would rather pay the current WiiU price than kids/families, Nintendo now has no software for these either. All these safe bets are the complete opposite even Nintendo fans expected from their first HD machine (which is why it's not even reaching GCN levels), there's no ambition, generational leap and/or core gameplay innovation like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime and so forth. And by the time it does have games like that, the insignificance of the console in the market can't be reverted anymore. They better remember this shit for the next console though.
Its not a one or the other type thing so they could improve their approach towards both audiences if they want.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Further price cuts are unlikely to significantly help the Wii U because the Wii U, as an individual product, is not a product that can generate that demand.
Nintendo's overall business approach towards children is lacking in some way, in both software and hardware.
Iwata has also said their business model of making 2-30,000 yen machines to play several thousand yen games is something that they may not be able to do anymore, indicating that he knows that price is an issue when creating a product.
Low priced hardware is just one aspect that Nintendo whiffed in targeting younger audiences.
Iwata's not wrong. My general impression of the Wii U's user-base is that it is mostly consisting of core Nintendo fans, not kids who are new to Nintendo.
Children have traditionally been a large part of the Nintendo-playing demographic, and it's always been a group that Nintendo has tried to cater to. Everyone here knows that. Yet the Wii U isn't getting in many kids' hands. Even the GameCube managed to do that.
And of course that would worry the hell out of Nintendo. Core fans can't sustain a corporation.
Children have traditionally been a large part of the Nintendo-playing demographic, and it's always been a group that Nintendo has tried to cater to. Everyone here knows that. Yet the Wii U isn't getting in many kids' hands. Even the GameCube managed to do that.
And of course that would worry the hell out of Nintendo. Core fans can't sustain a corporation.
Children are playing on other devices now but it's not because Nintendo has not been targeting them. How is he supposed to fix this if they won't be putting their games on mobile devices? Releasing their own phone or tablet would be suicide.
maquiladora
Member
Develop games aimed at younger kids for iOS/Android, introducing them to the Nintendo brand on the devices they already play with and then as they grow older hope they will gravitate towards Nintendo hardware?
AstroNut325
Member
I've witnessed firsthand what you two are talking about. I see most young kids enthralled by Minecraft, Angry Birds, Clash of Clans, ect... and they play those games almost exclusively. So I can definitely see the perspective of not targeting kids enough. And like Aqua said the games created by Nintendo of today are like the games of Nintendo from 1990... meaning very challenging/complex for very young gamers. And in a world that has a nearly endless supply of easily approachable/playable games... there is simply no room for the old ways. I can see many tears from die-hard Nintendo fans over the next few years!
I think when compared to mobile games like Angry Birds, Candy Crush and Minecraft, Nintendo does fall short. It's rather clear that there's no chance the Wii U will be anything outside of 3rd place in this generation of home consoles so they gotta make their profits somewhere. I just hope this mindset won't interrupt future projects like X/Zelda/Metroid and the likes.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I think the hardware problem of kids reaching for tablets instead isn't really one that can be solved by Nintendo beyond the dreaded going third party/dabbling in mobile.
Perhaps a price-cut on portable software would do the trick and get kids playing more games because their parents can afford more might be a thing, but the brands they have absolutely ARE the premium brands for kids. Pokemon alone really says it all. Maybe more free apps on 3DS? Like just releasing mini-games like the stuff from Mario 64 DS for free? Just... litter the thing with free bite sized entertainment?
I guess there was that e-book early learning thing mentioned at some point (or was it rumoured). So maybe thats part of the increasingly terrifying sounding new direction.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
This "games for everybody/all ages" is an obvious euphemism for their focus on younger audiences. Targeting the Teen/Mature audience was never Nintendo's priority, it's no secret why Nintendo disassembled NoA's production divisions and western second-parties like Rare, Left Field, DMA Design, Silicon Knights and Factor 5 who were actually targeting this audience.
It's a process, dude. You can't repair 20 years of branding and technological missteps overnight.
I feel like I'm harping a bit too hard, but too many people trying to interpret it another way will derail the conversation. For those of you who have some understanding of Japanese, just take a look at how the quote is being discussed on Japanese discussion boards instead of checking it with your other non-native Japanese friends.
Here's a good one: http://jin115.com/archives/51999684.html
Jin's little ASCII art commentary:
＞子どもたちへのアプローチ
子どもたちへのアプローチするのはいいんだけどさ
そのゲームを買うためのお金を持ってるのは大人だよね
あ、そっか大人はWii　fitやるからいいのか
じゃ、よゆーで立て直せますね！　よかった！
Some comments:
Just some examples. Seriously, no one is interpreting it the opposite way, nor should they, because that would be odd.
This is good context. Looks like the Japanese don't know what Nintendo are doing either. haha
TheLegendOfCap
Member
I think people are forgetting what is ACTUALLY the current thing for kids. Some are assuming its the CoD kids, and many people think its the mobile/tablet kids.
You know what it pretty much is?
1. Minecraft
2. Skylanders/Infinity
3. Mobile Games
4. 3DS
That exclusivity that Microsoft had on Minecraft was a HUGE deal and no one seems to be mentioning it. Minecraft is HUGE for kids right now. Minecraft alone moved a ton of Xbox 360s.
I feel what happened was that Kids who got the Wii "upgraded" to the Xbox 360. Millions and Millions of Xbox 360s were sold within the last two years. I feel like this is a big part of why the Wii U isn't selling. Of course there are other big problems, but this is one no one is addressing.
No parents or kids are going to get a Wii U if they JUST got a Xbox 360. (JUST being 1-2 years)
You know what it pretty much is?
1. Minecraft
2. Skylanders/Infinity
3. Mobile Games
4. 3DS
That exclusivity that Microsoft had on Minecraft was a HUGE deal and no one seems to be mentioning it. Minecraft is HUGE for kids right now. Minecraft alone moved a ton of Xbox 360s.
I feel what happened was that Kids who got the Wii "upgraded" to the Xbox 360. Millions and Millions of Xbox 360s were sold within the last two years. I feel like this is a big part of why the Wii U isn't selling. Of course there are other big problems, but this is one no one is addressing.
No parents or kids are going to get a Wii U if they JUST got a Xbox 360. (JUST being 1-2 years)
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I added some translations for those who don't read any Japanese.
But, yeah, responses seem to be pretty much the same as they are around here (except for the confusion about the meaning of the quote).
This is really sad, but the more I think about it, the more I feel the Nintendo we know and love just doesnt have any place in this world anymore. There is not much money to be made on consoles, and while there is money to be made on mobiles, you need to do a completely different buisness model and gameplay-style than what Nintendo currently does. Which means if they want to stay relevant, they would probably have to leave alot of the stuff that make them so loved in the first place. Quality, tight controls, no stupid dlc, etc. And that is not really a Nintendo I would care much for anymore, and Im sure that applies to most of their fans 
SolarPowered
Member
Frankly I find the constant parroting of this attitude on GAF insulting and ignorant. Why is it only m rated shooters and war games? Where was Nintendo when Trials got big? How about SSX? Nintendo had sports games on the SNES and N64, but they ceded the market to others. Nintendo sat on IPs like 1080, Excitebike and Bond which opened doors to markets that appeal to EVERYONE. Why no mention of that? It's getting tiring hearing about how Nintendo has to appeal to "core" gamers with the least common denominators of videogames like they're slobs who only know how to aim a reticule. The "core" market is more than just teens with bloodlust and gun fetishes.
There games would have to be on the platforms children will be using in the future. Otherwise they are selling to people with disposable income, YA and Adults.
Yeah. Consider how well Rovio has been able to spin Angry Birds off in such a short amount of time. Those little bastards are plastered everywhere these days, making it difficult for anyone to ignore them. Nintendo does already do this with Pokemon, but that's the only franchise that sees such aggressive branding. They've got a whole generation, perhaps two, that have never grown up with Mario in the same way that we did, and I think that's something that they're seriously examining to see what they need to do to rectify that. It's a situation that calls for trying to reintroduce that character in a different manner than they have been in the past, and that's sure to go beyond just the games themselves.
This is really sad, but the more I think about it, the more I feel the Nintendo we know and love just doesnt have any place in this world anymore. There is not much money to be made on consoles, and while there is money to be made on mobiles, you need to do a completely different buisness model and gameplay-style than what Nintendo currently does. Which means if they want to stay relevant, they would probably have to leave alot of the stuff that make them so loved in the first place. Quality, tight controls, no stupid dlc, etc. And that is not really a Nintendo I would care much for anymore, and Im sure that applies to most of their fans
Wow, talk about jumping the shark.
This is not necessarily true. I'm sure a lot of kids want a Wii U, but the parents can't justify the price of the console and the games. I mean, we're talking a huge gap in pricing here between smartphone gaming and Wii U gaming. Add in a shitty economy, and you get the full picture.
Who buys consoles? In this day and age the parents need to see something for them on the console they buy. It wont be in the kids room, it will be in the main center of the house.
Deadpool_X
Banned
If this truly wasn't translated wrong, or taken out of context, it's very sad. As a 31 year old man, I love playing Nintendo games for the throwback, nostalgic feeling they give me, but really, Nintendo caters most of it's games to an all-ages group. I would love to have the gritty, darker Nintendo back. You know, the Nintendo that partnered with Capcom for REmake, Konami for Twin Snakes, Silicon Knights with Eternal Darkness, and allowed Retro to create three amazing Metroid Prime games. I don't need a roided out dude-bro FPS, but something with a complex story would be nice. I appreciate their work to get Bayonetta 2 and X up and going, but people like me just want more. Those titles are outweighed vastly by games like Mario 3D World, Yarn Yoshi, and Pikmin 3, games that either are or arguably will be fantastic, but are severely lacking in the story department.
No, I think they mean that their image/ marketing towards children is inadequate - that is I think.
If the higher-ups at Nintendo think that their games are the problem, then they truly are lost.
I see it like this: There are two types of children (let's say in the 8 - 12 age range) - those that aren't gamers and those that are. Those that are gamers see Nintendo as uncool, their games are childish, they want to play the 'mature' games. While the non-gamers just play angry birds on their parents tablet, they don't feel the need to ask for a dedicated gaming hardware.
Nintendo needs to change their image and it all starts with marketing. Kids know Angry Birds because its everywhere - adverts, word-of-mouth, T-Shirts and other merchandise. People just need a reason to be interested - The Wii hit the nail on the head with its bizarre yet intriguing controller, it got people talking, wanting to try it.
This is really sad, but the more I think about it, the more I feel the Nintendo we know and love just doesnt have any place in this world anymore. There is not much money to be made on consoles, and while there is money to be made on mobiles, you need to do a completely different buisness model and gameplay-style than what Nintendo currently does. Which means if they want to stay relevant, they would probably have to leave alot of the stuff that make them so loved in the first place. Quality, tight controls, no stupid dlc, etc. And that is not really a Nintendo I would care much for anymore, and Im sure that applies to most of their fans
Or they could just keep the things they do well and add on from there rather than replace everything.
This thread really brought out how the premium priced hardware with cartoony kid/family software was trouble. It's like Nintendo made the Homer.
I have been saying for a while that video game software is overpriced for true mass market adoption. At $50, for a lot of people that made video games a only on birthday/Christmas kind of thing. And then Nintendo raised prices on its handheld and console side.
I know Iwata wants video games to be a premium thing and hates free/.99 cent games on iPhone. But there is a middle ground, and Nintendo(and the other big publishers) are so far above it that they are wide open to having their feet kicked out from under them by cheap mobile games. Like, Hollywood movies can coexist with YouTube. But if the average ticket price gets to twenty or thirty bucks.. A lot of people will make do with YouTube.
I have been saying for a while that video game software is overpriced for true mass market adoption. At $50, for a lot of people that made video games a only on birthday/Christmas kind of thing. And then Nintendo raised prices on its handheld and console side.
I know Iwata wants video games to be a premium thing and hates free/.99 cent games on iPhone. But there is a middle ground, and Nintendo(and the other big publishers) are so far above it that they are wide open to having their feet kicked out from under them by cheap mobile games. Like, Hollywood movies can coexist with YouTube. But if the average ticket price gets to twenty or thirty bucks.. A lot of people will make do with YouTube.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
^This dog-thing really needs to become the global mascot for Nintendo's misteps. It's cracking me up for some reason.
Also, yes, can we get some translations?
I added some to the post.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=98877079&postcount=136
As a native English speaker, I second this request.
Please be reddit quality or higher...
Danke!
Uncle00Jesse
Banned
A lot of it comes down to the fact that 90% of soccer moms out at friggin target wandering into the electronics section don't know the difference between a Wii and a Wii U.
It's confusing as shit, and when they do realize it's a new system with new exclusive games that'll set em back 300+ all told, they balk when it seems like less of an upgrade and more of a money grab. It's the same damn Mario and Larzenzo game that I plunked down for my kid last year for the Wii thing. All its got is a "U" and funny looking controller? I'm looking at the back of a Wii and Wii U game's box now, and they look the same to me.. No way I'm buying this...
Nintendo couldn't have done a worse job marketing the product.
It's confusing as shit, and when they do realize it's a new system with new exclusive games that'll set em back 300+ all told, they balk when it seems like less of an upgrade and more of a money grab. It's the same damn Mario and Larzenzo game that I plunked down for my kid last year for the Wii thing. All its got is a "U" and funny looking controller? I'm looking at the back of a Wii and Wii U game's box now, and they look the same to me.. No way I'm buying this...
Nintendo couldn't have done a worse job marketing the product.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I made a long post a few weeks ago about this. Should I just avoid this thread, considering I agree with him? Having some involvement, I can attest they weren't initially targeting their core demo, which is young families, at launch, and their unfocused approach failed, and they took a year to relaunch a campaign aimed at families and it's been a mitigated success, if at all.
They should have focused on families from the start, given the hindsight.
They very much have you inroduce their brands to young gamers and be a catalyst to a higher-quality/pricing gaming ecosystem, which they've so far failed to dhere.
They should have focused on families from the start, given the hindsight.
They very much have you inroduce their brands to young gamers and be a catalyst to a higher-quality/pricing gaming ecosystem, which they've so far failed to dhere.
maquiladora
Member
Thanks.
「子供へアプローチしたいならタブコンを捨てろ」 I disagree. Somehow I don't think the tablet is the factor that is not appealing to children. I think if it were an all in one device similar to 3DS but with WiiU capabilities children would be all over it.
I agree that they haven't been targeting children enough. As others have pointed out Minecraft has become massive and smart phones and tablets have become prevalent enough that they are a major gaming platform that children can access. With no multi-touch tablet of their own, and no software on existing tablets, Nintendo is on the outside and there's a real concern that "the next generation" of gamers is going to grow up without much if any exposure to Nintendo IPs.
Aside from the tween market I think there's a real opportunity for a brand new gaming market for even younger children that was never really accessible before, and which Nintendo has never strongly gone after.
Reposting my thoughts on "games for toddlers" from another thread:
Aside from the tween market I think there's a real opportunity for a brand new gaming market for even younger children that was never really accessible before, and which Nintendo has never strongly gone after.
Reposting my thoughts on "games for toddlers" from another thread:
Opinionatedfish
Member
So, Nintendo Infinity? Angry Koopas? What do the kids want?
It's the consequence for allowing themselves to fall behind in those categories. The Wii was very profitable, but ultimately a huge setback in terms of features. You would think the Wii U was being made with all this in mind, but now they're stuck with another system that's not up to date, but this one isn't selling well. If they're smart, they should be working on their online infrastructure now, but now just to catch up, but to surpass and add features. If it's too late for the Wii U, at least prepare yourselves for the next generation. For now, the Wii U should be used to build themselves in that direction with their old hardcore IPs like Metroid and their sport games. It's not going to be easy, especially with their sucky marketing team.
Keep the games that children would love coming, but don't make it the overall focus.
I agree. I was saying that going for the core is like another way of getting the attention of children. Worked for Microsoft, and they weren't even trying to do that (at least I don't think). Nintendo naturally have a lot of games for everyone, so the focus isn't needed.
It's tough for me to comment on anything Iwata says because I firmly believe he has more information on this stuff than I do.
He's probably right, I think. Based on the trends I've seen here, it seems like Nintendo's franchises occupy very little of children's mindshare. Sure Mario is still popular, but it's seeing more competition from Angry Birds, Minecraft, Skylanders and now Disney. A lot of this is also coming from the mobile space since parents are willing to buy them cheap licensed games to have their kids mess around with for a few hours. Nintendo's characters don't have nearly the same amount of exposure as the others and I'm sure it's the same in Japan.
Mario, Zelda, Samus are characters for another generation so maybe the solution is in creating new characters. It worked with Pokemon. It was something new and Nintendo accompanied those games with a media blitz that few video game have ever achieved. If they could somehow come up with a game featuring a new set of addictive mechanics and a new world and introduce it to the world via a smart marketing campaign, then maybe problem solved.
Easier said than done though. You can't tell what kids are going to like and maybe the solution is to put Mario on smartphones for a 99 cents.
He's probably right, I think. Based on the trends I've seen here, it seems like Nintendo's franchises occupy very little of children's mindshare. Sure Mario is still popular, but it's seeing more competition from Angry Birds, Minecraft, Skylanders and now Disney. A lot of this is also coming from the mobile space since parents are willing to buy them cheap licensed games to have their kids mess around with for a few hours. Nintendo's characters don't have nearly the same amount of exposure as the others and I'm sure it's the same in Japan.
Mario, Zelda, Samus are characters for another generation so maybe the solution is in creating new characters. It worked with Pokemon. It was something new and Nintendo accompanied those games with a media blitz that few video game have ever achieved. If they could somehow come up with a game featuring a new set of addictive mechanics and a new world and introduce it to the world via a smart marketing campaign, then maybe problem solved.
Easier said than done though. You can't tell what kids are going to like and maybe the solution is to put Mario on smartphones for a 99 cents.