ninteno gets a free pass
- Thread starter DR3AM
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dDoc
Member
I haven't played a Nintendo game in decades. I do not miss them at all.
leo-j
Member
They should not get a pass on their horrific NSO usability….. we still have a social security code for a an online ID. But I will say the switch 2 design is genius, and they hit gold with that, improved an already great design with the switch. In addition, their games are top tier quality. And so are their legacy IP. This is part of why people tend to forgive it. Although I agree, as an owner of one myself, they should fix their friend integration.
Fess
Member
Then you simply don't realize what you've been missing out on. Some of the all-time best games has been developed by Nintendo during the last couple decades.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
You don't have to pay shit if you don't want to. A lot of us do not.
Amin_Parker
Member
I agree with this post. If you are a person who haven't played Nintendo games before then you have no idea the amazing franchises and top-of-the-line video game productions that you're missing out on. It reminds me of when Dragon Ball Z first became big in Japan back in the early 90s. A lot of people did not get a chance to experience Dragon Ball Z when it was in its prime so those people have no idea what they were missing out on since the franchise was mostly exclusive to Japan. Even when talking about superheroes the moment I mentioned Goku , most westerners who only follow western content had no clue how powerful and awesome of a hero Son Goku was simply because they missed the boat on Dragon Ball Z when it first was big back in the late 80s/early 90s. So it's the same thing here, people who have never played a Nintendo game in their life have no clue how amazingly awesome Nintendo games are. There's a reason why Nintendo games sell so good because the games are very well-made. But if a person never played a Nintendo game or if they haven't played Nintendo games in 20 years they're not going to know where we're coming from. But sales speak for themselves and Nintendo games are some of the highest rated in the industry as well as they sell so well
CuteFaceJay
Member
Prolly because most the games they seem to put out a part from Pokemon are of decent quality.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
I know GAF doesn't like to be social and interact with other players.
But people who wants to play online are forced to pay
ShadyAcshuns
Member
I play Halo Infinite and Rocket League on occasion and they're free.
Super Lemon Drop
Gold Member
ninteno boing! boing!
AREYOUOKAY?
Member
GymWolf
Member
Nintendo also make very specific games that miss a lot of things that people may like:
You enjoy cutting edge graphic, realistic animations and production values? Tought luck
You enjoy good stories, characters or wiriting? Better search elsewhere.
You like violent\horror games? Good luck.
You like great\technical combat systems? tought luck except for smash bros.
You like having a big challenge or even just some attriction? Good luck with most of their games
You don't give a damn about platforms or useless endgame collecathlon? That's a big portion of their offer in many of their games, from odissey to luigi mansion 3 to bananza (usually where the challenge is from what i heard)
People who enjoy even one or multiple things from that list really doesn't miss much by not buying nintendo games.
You can probably find exceptions to every voice on that list as i can find exceptions in the M or sony lineup (like sony making astrobot or microsoft making stuff like psychonauts or hifi rush) compared to what they usually do, but if you have any intellectual honesty, you are gonna agree with me that nintendo doesn't cover all bases of gaming (and that list could go on for ages)
Not every game is for everyone, even the best ones, and people buy based on their priorities.
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Closer
Member
LoL. This bullet point is not even relevant to the premise, but I can see where you're coming from, even if I don't really agree.
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GymWolf
Member
It still make sense in that list, if you don't care about platforms at all, nintendo catalogue doesn't look nearly as good and you are not missing as much, it was just inverse reasoning but the point doesn't change, they make very specific games like the other publishers that cater to a specific audience.
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Lethal01
Member
I enjoy most of those things, dont need every thing fom every game though.
Not every game needs a deep combat system and I like both realistic and stylized games
I suppose that list makes sens if you are saying it for people who like ONLY those things.
But who only likes horror games and violent games
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GymWolf
Member
But you can see my point right?
I could make the same point for sony or M, it is not specific for nintendo, none of the big 3 covers everything.
I Happen to like a lot of stuff on that list and i stopped enjoying platforms since the ps2 era, so i know for a fact that i'm not missing much by not buying their games, because all the thing where they excel, are stuff that i have mostly no interest, and they don't do most of the stuff that interest me in a videogame like having a challenge, interesting stories\charas or good combat.
It's a very easy concept.
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Nintendo has one of the more varied catalogues when it comes to 1p developers. They cover quite a few genres really. They have a few blind spots, as you've pointed out but the idea that they just have platformers is false. Using the Switch lineup as an example...
Xenoblade - massive JRPG series
Fire Emblem - srpg
Splatoon - third person shooter
Pikmin - rts/puzzle
Metroid Prime/Dread - 3d and 2d metroidvanias
Animal Crossing
BOTW/TOTK - Open world action adventures
Smash Bros - fighter for 20 somethings who dont shower
Mario Odyssey - platformer
Mario Kart - cart racer
Bayonetta - stylized action
Look at Xenoblade and Fire Emblem examples. What other 1p would even consider publishing a massive JRPG these days? Sony used to be synonymous with the genre and they don't even bother outside of paying for exclusivity of FF7R. No 1p is making SRPGs.
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GymWolf
Member
Most of your list only prove how much of my list was true tbh.
If you search around enough, all consoles cover almost every genre between first parties, second parties, aa and indies, but they are always specialized in something.
And i'm not gonna repeat myself, if you like most of the things in my list (very common things to like in a videogame), you are definitely not missing much by not playing nintendo games, and some of that stuff like having a challenge or good combat systems are a big deal for a lot of people.
You think it is brave to publish a game like xenoblade or fire emblem in a japanese centric console? Lol what about sony publishing stuff like ico, shadow of the colossus or the last guardian? Or microsoft publishing stuff like psychonauts or hi rush? Way more niche stuff than xenoblade.
Like i said, we can all play this game and search for outliers and exceptions.
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Ico and SOTC came out 20+ years ago lol. TLG is almost a decade old. Modern Sony doesn't make these types of games. The closest thing they've published this gen is Returnal, otherwise it's just third person prestige tv stuff.
Regardless though, the data speaks for itself. You can say that these are things that are "very common things to like in a videogame" but the reality is Nintendo moved more units than the others last gen so they're obviously satisfying the end user.
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GymWolf
Member
The data can say what they want, if we listen data, fifa, cod and fortnite are the pinnacle of gaming because they have huge audience.
The data also say that out of the hundreds of millions of switch out there, they can only sell 20 mil of their best games in a console that has way, way less games than the other 2 because many third party games can't even run on it, people on the other 2 platforms have much higher choice for games, you can spin this shit as you want.
Returnal was a 3d roguelike, a pc centric genre, it was as risky as xenoblade in a japanese centric console (and it sold kinda poorly), let's not act like nintendo publishing a relatively famous brand like xenoblade or even the other one you named require huge amount of bravery, they know their clients like sony does.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
Nintendo gets a free pass because they lost. theu were driven away by the competition form the Home Console Market. WiiU sold 13M...let that skin in, when we look at Xbox as a massive failure with 30-50M console sold.
Who said anything about bravery? Just pointed out that Nintendo has a much larger variety in their published games than Sony does.
Sony relies on 3p like you said. Which is fine, but it also makes it a redundant console for people who have a PC.
GymWolf
Member
But almost all of their games still pretty much confirm my list dude, they have a lot of genres but all of their games have a shitload of stuff in common.
You can give me 1000 games of 1000 different genres but if ìthe majority of those games have zero challenge or shit graphic and production value or shit combat systems, people who like that stuff is not gonna miss much.
My point wasn't that nintendo has few genres (the platform thing was one point in my list, only one) but that their games lack similar things.
You know i'm right when even metroid, a game with more combat than most other nintendo games gets a free pass from critics when people say that the shooting look meh because "you don't buy metroid for the combat", you know i'm right when even people who score odissey a 10 say that the game is a cakewalk, and it is the same for the challenge or graphic or story\characters etc, the defence is always the same, you don't buy nintendo games for "that stuff"...it is almost a meme at this point, a meme based on reality and exactly my point, people who care about "that stuff" is not missing much.
Maybe sony doesn't have a large catalogue of genres outside of third parties and aa because they know they have third parties and aa? Never thought about that? Nintendo doesn't have that luxury so they have different plans.
Sony and M have been kinda shit and have missed things aswell, this is hardly a one way ticket.
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Sure, it sounds like they're not for you. I personally think saying "well none of these games have high production value or are hard, so they're all the same" is a pretty reductive line of thinking. I would love if Odyssey had some more difficulty to it, that's definitely my main complaint with the game, but it's a very different game than Zelda, Pikmin, Xenoblade, etc regardless of that.
I'd say that's a symptom of the industry as a whole though. Theres not really anyone outside of FROM and indies making (good) difficult games these days.
I think Sony would very much like to have a larger stable of games, they're a business and they want to make their money too. We've seen this with their push for GaaS this gen. Their bread and butter is the HBO style game, and they keep coming back to it, but they certainly would like to have presence elsewhere. Especially since those games being available on PC reduce the value prop for their own hardware. GTA6 is gonna move a ton of consoles for them, which is great, but I don't think it's ideal to be at the mercy of a 3p devs schedule to move your consoles.
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GymWolf
Member
I partially disagree with the fact that only from and indies make hard games but i agree that hard games (or at least games that remain hard for the whole duration) are more rare today, also maybe you are a far better player than me so you consider super easy stuff that for me is hard enough to be enjoyable
The thing is, even having an hard mode or a very hard mode is already something, a slight unfair challenge where enemy do a lot of damage is still better than no challenge and many games at least achieve that, that is already a huge plus compared to no challenge whatsoever other than endgame collecathlon that sound absolute dire to me.
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Yeah, it's ultimately subjective.I partially disagree with the fact that only from and indies make hard games but i agree that hard games (or at least games that remain hard for the whole duration) are more rare today, also maybe you are a far better player than me so you consider super easy stuff that for me is hard enough to be enjoyable
The thing is, even having an hard mode or a very hard mode is already something, a slight unfair challenge where enemy do a lot of damage is still better than no challenge and many games at least achieve that, that is already a huge plus compared to no challenge whatsoever other than endgame collecathlon that sound absolute dire to me.
Like your second point, I actually disagree with this somewhat (though I won't deny the option is nice). I think games (hard games particularly) are better when they're handcrafted with a single difficulty in mind. It's one of the things I like most about FROM, they make their games difficult as the baseline so the result is that the difficulty is found in the mechanics as opposed to "yeah we gave this guy 200% more health on hard difficulty". Looking at Odyssey as an example, if they were to make it more difficult I'd want that to be in the platforming - harder jumps, forcing you to use more advanced mechanics, etc. I don't think a game like that can implement multiple difficulties in a satisfying way (unless they were willing to go out and redesign levels completely for each difficulty).
GymWolf
Member
Of course handcrafted and well balanced difficulty is always the best but ask yourself this:
How many times you can say that you had a game perfectly balanced in every aspect, with nothing broken, and that maintained a great level of challenge for the whole thing? it is EXTREMELY rare, even fromsoft fucked up with elden ring and they had to nerf a lot of stuff before the game was "balanced", even bloodborne has a starting weapon that make most of the game a joke if you know how to use it (and i recently discovered that many people think that another starting weapon is the busted one although i disagree...)
So for me the second best option is difficulty levels, because no challenge is always worse than unfair challenge to me, unfair challenge can make exploration and finding cool stuff even more enjoyable because YOU NEED that upgrade, but no challenge? it ruin exploration and finding cool stuff, 2 cardinal sin for me a,dn also make combat boring, another cardinal sin.
I only ever returned 2 games to gamestop in my life, and in both case it was for the complete lack of challenge.
About platform games, and this is definitely a me thing, i always, always hated when the challenge was the collecathlon and finding hided stuff in the levels but then the actual platforming or the enemies to beat to win the level were super easy, i would like for a platform to have challenge WHILE i play and try to complete the game, i would like to die because the jumps are hard or the enemies are positioned in an annoying way, not in the endgame where i search stuff inside the levels, but this is also connected to the fact that i hate collecting stuff just to collect stuff without awards for that other than gettng a platinum or some other ingame trophy, i like to search and collect stuff to unlock new features, weapons etc, so it's a vicious circle, i was about to buy luigi mansion 3 before knowing that searching for coins is basically useless other than personal enjoyment (and also the game being a cakewalk).
This is why i don't get ninteno philosophy, their games would be much better if they had both type of challenge ( i know that searching for secret stuff sometimes require hard jumps etc. but yu get what i mean).
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Going from PS5 to Switch 1 is quite the jarring experience. Feels like using an android device from 2010 or something. Navigating the menus and eshop is so sluggish and system frequently hangs if you go too fast. If it weren't for BotW I would have never bought this stupid thing (thankfully Cemu emulation keeps improving).
OP is not wrong. Nintendo is so behind the curve in every aspect. Hardware, OS, online. It would be such a travesty if Switch 2 were the only console platform going forward, but it seems that may very well be the case.
OP is not wrong. Nintendo is so behind the curve in every aspect. Hardware, OS, online. It would be such a travesty if Switch 2 were the only console platform going forward, but it seems that may very well be the case.
Fess
Member
Sure we all like different things but it's not like big IPs like Zelda or Metroid or Mario are super niche games, they're just well crafted games with extremely polished gameplay mechanics and they always have some new thinking that makes them stand out. We're talking 9+/10 almost consistently.
Anyhow I could never see myself skip a mainline Zelda. Or Metroid. Or Mario. Or Mario Kart. Those are the main IPs for me. Besides that I usually end up playing the Pokémon games as well, and Xenoblade, Donkey Kong. There are quite I don't want to miss. It's why I never question if I should buy a Nintendo console at a new generation, I can dislike their hardware if they mess up but they only do true exclusivity so I still need it for their games.
GymWolf
Member
I almost always buy new zelda and metroid
, my switch1 was bought almost exclusively for them.Because they are the closest things to my taste, or at least they try
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Closer
Member
Nintendo is good in what they do, same as Sony and Microsoft (for the most part), and you need third parties to fill out their weakness. No console maker do everything you listed.
GymWolf
Member
Never said otherwise, nobody is perfect.
Doing many of those things even if not all of them is enough to differentiate the offer.
Fess
Member
No kidding I'm big enough Metroid fan that I don't even get why the genre is called Metroidvania… What's up with the vania?? It was always Metroid, Symphony of the Night just came out aping Super Metroid like nothing else, it was Metroid with melee weapon. Genre should be called Metroidlike.I almost always buy new zelda and metroid
Because they are the closest things to my taste, or at least they try
Metroid Dread was awesome btw, among the top 10 best games in the industry the last couple years. A bit too much hand-holding imo but the movement is absolute top of the industry and the boss fights were like puzzles in how they were built. Absolutely loved it.
I'm not as big of a fan of the 3D Metroids tbh but I'm hoping it'll change with Metroid Prime 4. Should be the next big one from Nintendo.
blacktout
Member
Boys between the ages of 11 and 16 and middle-aged men with the psychology of boys between the ages of 11 and 16 (the primary demographic of NeoGAF).
GymWolf
Member
As a huge SOTN fanboy, it is better if we don't continue this discussion if we want to save our relation, darlingNo kidding I'm big enough Metroid fan that I don't even get why the genre is called Metroidvania… What's up with the vania?? It was always Metroid, Symphony of the Night just came out aping Super Metroid like nothing else, it was Metroid with melee weapon. Genre should be called Metroidlike.
Metroid Dread was awesome btw, among the top 10 best games in the industry the last couple years. A bit too much hand-holding imo but the movement is absolute top of the industry and the boss fights were like puzzles in how they were built. Absolutely loved it.
I'm not as big of a fan of the 3D Metroids tbh but I'm hoping it'll change with Metroid Prime 4. Should be the next big one from Nintendo.
GymWolf
Member
Too bad i never said "only like one thing" and even made a list of multiple thing
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blacktout
Member
Too bad i never said "only like one thing" and even made a list of multiple thing
I wasn't dunking on you specifically. I was just making a general joke about GAF, a joke that implicates me as much as anyone, lol.
GymWolf
Member
They recently changed their name into ninteno to check if the "belda theory" is actually valid
Mozza
Member
Without a doubt and this is at it's core what's wrong about the question posed in this thread. Although suggesting it's an actual question in the first place is stretching things a tad as it's loaded as hell. But you could label this accisation at all three console manufacturers. As this is coming down to our indivudual requirements from these companies rather than any actual flaw that would apply to the wider demographics.Then we get surprised when the majority of consumers do not care about any of this or feel they are being ripped off in some way. So in reality it's only people on here that feel any of these companies are getting away with things.
Mozza
Member
I have always said you can't argue with the box office........ People vote with their feet and Nintendo must be doing something right. That is not to say we can all see it. But even on Gaf we can't all agree.They recently changed their name into ninteno to check if the "belda theory" is actually valid
{insert code here}
Member
What free pass lol, Switch 2 was getting shitted on more than any console I've seen on here. There were days where half the threads on GAF were Nintendo doomed. So many people complaining about the prices it was crazy, they definitely did not get a free pass on GAF lmao.
Fess
Member
Nah let's keep talking! I love the game too, all the Igavanias even, among my all-time greats. But this is just how I feel, I don't think the Castlevania games were defining the genre. For me it's about the map and general structure how you progress and the save rooms etc, those are the key ingredients for that genre. And that's Metroid.As a huge SOTN fanboy, it is better if we don't continue this discussion if we want to save our relation, darling
Zacfoldor
Member
The crazy thing is that we get called names for defending them but wtf is this, lol?
It "fuckin sucks and its unfair" to you that Nintendo occasionally succeeds?
Brother...
GymWolf
Member
Oh yeah i have no strong opinion about the term metroidvania, at this point is just kinda ingrained in my brain like some other gamey terms like gunplay or immersive sims or jrpg
I don't really care who get the credit for inventing the genre.
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OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Just call this thread dumbass and be done with it.