*NO BOOK SPOILERS* Game of Thrones - Season 2 - Sundays on HBO (read rules in OP)
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I took it as he really din't have that much power without the dragons. Thats why they wanted them so bad. With Dany there controlling the dragons he was weakened.
Also slightly confused as to why winterfell was torched. How did the dudes leave? They where surrounded... They knock out theon, kill everyone light the place on fire and walk out? Where was the 500 troops surrounding them? Where were the 500 troops when the little lords left? (I guess they took the secret passages out?)
Man the Starks can't catch a break.
Arya: missing... no one knows where she is
Little lords: on the run, thought to be dead.
Sansa: prisoner of sadomasochist.
Jon: undercover bastard presumed dead.
Rob: kicking ass, but I have a bad feeling his summer fling is going to end badly when Frey finds out he doesn't want to marry his ugly daughter.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Yes, the White Walkers were on horses, leading/herding an army of wights.
My take around the burning of Winterfell:
1. They discovered the tunnels and used the fire as a distraction.
2. The surrounding force number one priority is to save Winterfell, also to look for the children, by burning Winterfell they used it as a distraction to escape (or surge in one direction when the rest of the forces are too busy trying to calm the fire or unable to communicate).
3. They discovered the tunnels, but burnt Winterfell down as a message to the Starks.
1. They discovered the tunnels and used the fire as a distraction.
2. The surrounding force number one priority is to save Winterfell, also to look for the children, by burning Winterfell they used it as a distraction to escape (or surge in one direction when the rest of the forces are too busy trying to calm the fire or unable to communicate).
3. They discovered the tunnels, but burnt Winterfell down as a message to the Starks.
The clones disappeared because their main guy died. The trick was that no one could tell who was who, but killing the main guy killed the source of the clones imo.
The srceror knew how the dragins derived their power. He was under the impression that 1. they were still babies and lacked real power & 2. Dany held no particular power herself.
The reality is that the dragins are made more powerful in Dany's presence, she is impervious to the fire attacks, & both of them were more powerful than him. It is a pretty common trait to think you are the top dog until someone shows you otherwise. All he knew was the dragons made him stronger, not that they got stronger too until they matured.
They think the boys are dead and would report that to Robb. His men would say Theon killed them. Weren't the boys still hanging so maybe they took them as proof. The question I have is why the maester guy didn't trust them.
Well, the last place to be attacked would be the Wall. But there are numerous houses pledging support to the Starks including the 500 men that attacked Winterfell. They could have escorted the boys if they were trustworthy.
cutmeamango
Banned
Could be, but I don't believe they turned Theon. They took him 'home' as by orders of his sister. The fire would make sense then, but the soldiers not looking for the bodies wouldn't. And killing everyone and setting fire would be a dumb decision because it would only slow them since the northerners were at gates.
Now, the guy sent was a bastard son. Unless they totally hid his importance somewhere and hate for the Starks/Winterfell and his influence over 500? men. Which would be some really fucked up storytelling on a TV show. And personally that would be an even worse offense because I'm much more interested in the 'human game' then the supernatural cock measuring!
fifasnipe2224
Member
S1 Dragon ending > S2 Zombie ending.
Anyone else agree?
Anyone else agree?
Nope, baby Dragons aren't really a threat. White Walkers on the other hand are an immediate threat to Westros. I hope we don't have to wait to end of s3 to get more about them.
I'm starting to think that the people charged with re-securing winterfell burnt the city.
Why, I'm not sure....discord with Robb, a secondary alliance not yet revealed, a means to another end to which I'm not yet sure.
It just makes little sense why and how the greyjoy men could murder and burn the city and still escape. Especially when it seemed clear that they knocked Theon out in an attempt to broker an escape.
Why, I'm not sure....discord with Robb, a secondary alliance not yet revealed, a means to another end to which I'm not yet sure.
It just makes little sense why and how the greyjoy men could murder and burn the city and still escape. Especially when it seemed clear that they knocked Theon out in an attempt to broker an escape.
Definitely.
Pretty weak finale. I can't fucking wait for next season but as a stand-alone episode it was quite weak.
Highlight was Brienne-Jaime scene.
Nope. We got baby dragons in S1. In S2 we got baby dragons toasting a warlock and zombies.
But that's not really a cliffhanger. There wasn't anything to hook onto, it was just a big "huh?"
Well sure, but S1 finale had a lot of story hooks going for it. Night's Watch riding north of the Wall, Robb declaring as King in the North, Tyrion made Hand of the King. And, of course, the dragons.
S2 finale didn't have quite so much stuff that makes you go "ooh, what happens next?" The zombies made a pretty effective "oh shit" moment, but that was about it. Aside from Dany getting her dragons back, it was mostly low points.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Yet its all anyone is talking about. Mission accomplished I'd say.
"Dude, you should really be watching this show! There was this one scene where this castle was burning, and it made no goddamn sense! It's amazing."
From the start I always figured the white walkers would make their appearance when Westeros was plunged into civil war, it made the most sense. Thanks to Theon the realm is a bit weaker now, since the stronghold in the North was destroyed. Also, I don't think Mance Rayder formed that huge army to attack the realm, more so it was formed for protection against the white walkers and to get the hell out of the north.
I haven't read the books, but the wait for season 3 might force me to, I kind of don't want to though since knowing everything that will happen in The Walking Dead series kind of killed it a bit for me.
I haven't read the books, but the wait for season 3 might force me to, I kind of don't want to though since knowing everything that will happen in The Walking Dead series kind of killed it a bit for me.
I don't think they surrendered him, they probably burned the place down and took the tunnels. It wouldn't shock me if his sister ordered the men to bring him back if something like that happened. The fact they pointed out that were tunnels is what makes me believe that is what went down.
If they gave up a Greyjoy, there wouldn't be able to return to the Iron islands, no?
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Except they made it far less romantic and plausible than it could have been.
walbertsmith
Member
Hence the quotes around the word "cliffhanger". It doesn't follow the structure of a normal cliffhanger, but it does leave doubt as to the outcome.
It's fine that it wasn't completely resolved, because if we knew who burned Winterfell then that would reduce the amount of chatter surrounding the finale, right?
Maybe "Who burned Winterfell?" will become the new "Who shot JR?" (or, if you're my generation, then "Who shot Mr. Burns?")
walbertsmith
Member
Edit: Damn neogaf servers all wonky... double post.
That's fine. I guess I see it as more of a non sequitur than a mystery.
parrotbeak
Member
I don't think that works because no one in the show seems to be wondering.
The sister didn't order that though or else they would have just left with her. I thought they gave him up because they bacgged him and then just strolled off without knowledge of the hidden exits. The episode made it seem that simply walking out wasn't a possibility. His crew was so horrible, it makes more sense that they took the deal handed them.
EDIT: Fixed for typos
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Sansa being called out by little finger was one great scene. Like," listen girl I'm not a fucking idiot".
parrotbeak
Member
Ya, I think they turned Theon over. What is weird is how casually Maester Luwinn was stabbed right before they're presumably going to surrender.
Also is it common knowledge in the North that Theon claimed to have killed the Stark boys? I thought they had kept that secret with the killing of the ravens but it seems like a hard thing to keep secret for long.
parrotbeak
Member
I dunno, it's possible, but he made that remark that it's one thing to be a dance teacher but another to be able to change your face. I guess that can be taken both ways.
They did keep it secret but no one but Luwin knew that.
It really depends on how many of his men knew it wasn't the Stark boys and also whether they would be inclined to tell that they were alive.
parrotbeak
Member
No, I meant did Theon keep the supposed killing of the Stark boys a secret? I thought that was one reason they killed the ravens--so no one outside of Winterfell would know what he supposedly did. I don't remember exactly but I thought he brought this up with his sister when she was warning him about getting killed.
I was thinking that bt it seems so far fetched and creates more questions.
Honestly, I kind of like that odea because then he could simply be looking out for her. Now I don't think there's a way for him to have actually been captured and headed to the Wall given his skills unless he planned it.
fifasnipe2224
Member
Need help clarifying the visions that Khaleesi had in the House of the Undying. Her almost touching the Throne seemed like foreshadowing to me; as in she will one day be VERY close to sitting in it but never actually fully owning it. OR could that have been a vision of the past instead of one of the future? Next we have Khal Drogo and her died child. The scene was very well done and the child was a nice touch. BUT! What I do not understand was why she walked threw the Northern Wall? Both the Throne and Khal Drogo and her child seemed to have been used as distractions from her three Dragons or maybe used to increase her eagerness to find them or maybe used to keep he in that hallucination. Either way the Wall seemed out of place. What connection does she have to the Wall??
parrotbeak
Member
I was confused by that too. I was half expecting them to cut each other's ropes free and try to escape. I think some of the older guys resented Jon because he's such a good fighter but lacks experience. Then he really messed up with the girl and will be of value to the Wildling king, so better to try to take him out. Also he knows one way or another they are both likely to die or break their vows by siding with the Wildlings.
Grimm Fandango
Member
The Throne scene couldn't be from the past but more like foreshadowing. The room was destroyed in many areas and it was winter. Maybe the Dragons attack King's Landing in the future?
Last Hearth
Member
Just a guess, but it foreshadows that winter is going to come really badly to Westeros, and that Dany (and her dragons) are going to have to save the 7 kingdoms from the White Walkers. Notice that just before she gets to the tent the snow gets heavy and blinding, exactly like what happens to Sam when the WW show up at the end.
I was saying that even everyone in Winterfell knew the boys were dead so the guys sieging the place would learn from Winterfell the boys were dead unless Theon's guys said otherwise. Basically, the north knows now assuming the guys attacking Theon learned of their death.
I got the impression that both were tests to see what she loved the most, the desire to restore the iron throne that is in shambles or to spend the rest of her life with the man she loved. None of the above. It turned out to be the dragons. The sorceror was thinking that she would willingly stay with the dragons over anything else, perhaps making her an easier prisoner. Again, he underestimated how power Dany herself was, so although she did choose the dragons, she had no intention of actually staying a prisoner.
She is such a good charcater despite all the griping about her. She is really the only one that has faith in herself. Everyone forgets what's she's accomplished.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Qhorin understood that both of them being taken to Mance Rayder = both of them being dead crows. If he could force Jon to kill him in front of the other wildlings, he might have a chance at earning their trust and getting in their good graces, so he can learn more about their operations.
I actually don't think it was snow but ashes from the dragons burning everything in King's Landing.
Also does anyone feel the whole house of the undying thing had a very big build up and not much of a conclusion. Dany was barely in there for 5 mins and killed the Warlock.
The Lamonster
Member
I was hoping to see more than just one warlock. They mentioned there being more than just Pyat Pree but you never see them...unless they all look exactly alike and it's not actually magic!
But yeah, big letdown either way.
parrotbeak
Member
I was expecting the warlock to multiply and then the dragons would set the whole room on fire, killing the warlock and burning off the chains. The chains just turned to ash though and it was over so fast.
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I think that's what they were trying to convey. Everyone was bigger than life and they were going to be in for the fight of their lives. Based on Dany & the dragons abilities, they weren't much of a match and their power was phony to boot. To me, it mirrors the battle from last week which made it appear the odds were insurmountable... if not for a little thing like a boatload of wildfire igniting.
As an aside, it kills me that Tyrion got NO credit for that. Tywin is not that bright if he doesn't take advantage of his son's gifts.
fifasnipe2224
Member
The entire thing felt like a waist of time. Even more painful is the fact that each season is only about 10 hours long. It started with her losing her dragons and ended with her gaining a good amount of wealth and her dragons back. SERIOUSLY? Could not have done it in a faster or at least more interesting way?? The entire Qarth place seemed like a huge let down and a waist of this shows very limited time.
It's funny that the wait doesn't feel that long to me until January and they started advertising it. I don't like True Blood, but look forward to the journalist show, Boardwalk Empire will be back on in September for 3 months and then it's back to January which is where the torture starts again until April.
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