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[ChiTownBuffalo]

Only agree to give it by air-drop to regional and city-centres to avoid/confuse theft by government forces.

I don't think air dropping anything will confuse anyone. A pallet of food slowly floating down by parachute isn't a wiley thing.

And the North Korean response would be to scramble fighters, force the plane to land, and then trade the crew and plane for more food.

 

[JayDubya]

Materially nothing to little perhaps. Apart from the so called 'nuke' threats, and the war with it's neighbour, S. Korea.

They're still in the weaker position, though; we should not be giving them tribute.

Philosphically though: A starving North Korean child is still a starving child.

Their autocrat is starving them, and said autocrat is not exactly being humble in begging for said aid. He would insist on using whatever aid was given however he saw fit and maintaining his nation's isolated status and his total control over the populace... And of course, we know from experience "how he sees fit."

Essentially, unless you're willing to remove the real problem - which would be quite costly, as interventions go, in lives and resources - then other interventions just become part of the problem.

 

[zon]

I strongly advise everybody with even a passing interest in the subject to watch the following video:

The Cleanest Race: How North Koreans See Themselves and Why It Matters.

That was a very nice seminar. I enjoyed watching it. I learned a lot.

 

[scorcho]

Whatever food we give him he'll probably just feed his military, which he has done in the past. The people who are going to starve to death, will continue to starve to death, we need not feed his armies.

this. there's little transparency for aid workers or relief work, as the NK government/military will take over and dictate the distribution.

it's not so simple where we can simply donate aid without conditions and leave it at that. at that point we might as well write a direct check to Kim Jong Il.

 

[Prez]

I strongly advise everybody with even a passing interest in the subject to watch the following video:

The Cleanest Race: How North Koreans See Themselves and Why It Matters.

I watched it all, very interesting (not "entertaining" like that idiot said :/)

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I strongly advise everybody with even a passing interest in the subject to watch the following video:

The Cleanest Race: How North Koreans See Themselves and Why It Matters.

Koreans have moral purity. I'm cool with that.

It's like when the Moonies came to my door once, 2 smoking hot Korean girls who told me, "Koreans are the Chosen People!"

Hmm...OK, I can get on board with this. Tell me more.

"Rev. Moon is Jesus!"

Uh....ok. Lost me there. Unless you guy are going to engage in flirty fishing, I'm not interested.

 

[WorriedCitizen]

Kim Jong has the means to help his people if he really wants to. It's up to him.
Unconditional food aid only helps him to prolong his evil regime and the agony of his people. Therefore i would say no to it.

 

[JayDubya]

I think he had the right of it. Don't bargain with N. Korea; bargain with China to achieve the end of everyone sitting back and letting N. Korea collapse.

 

[Rentahamster]

what part of NK is communist? The part where they share the hunger and misery with all people as equals? because apart from that, I don't think there is even a slim part of communism in there at all.

The part that abhors capitalist free markets and private property and seeks to collectivize both the economy and society through the power of the state.

 

[[Nintex]]

There seems to be some sort of food crisis already with higher prices and failed crops so I'm not surprised by the response of the international community. On the other hand, NK owns a fuck ton of guns/tanks and perhaps even nukes or at least nuclear technology. What if they sold that shit to some crazy regime in order to get money to buy food? What if they bomb Seoul and try to raid South Korea? It's not like they have anything to lose at this point which is why North Korea is very dangerous. I'd say make some sort of deal with them, make sure the food gets to the NK citizens. Let China or Russia monitor the hand-outs or something.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

People really need to get over the "What if they bomb Seoul?" thing.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Let's trade. A kilo of rice for every gun they hand over.

And why come asking the US and Europe? Let China pick up the bill this time.

 

[CrankyJay]

There seems to be some sort of food crisis already with higher prices and failed crops so I'm not surprised by the response of the international community. On the other hand, NK owns a fuck ton of guns/tanks and perhaps even nukes or at least nuclear technology. What if they sold that shit to some crazy regime in order to get money to buy food? What if they bomb Seoul and try to raid South Korea? It's not like they have anything to lose at this point which is why North Korea is very dangerous. I'd say make some sort of deal with them, make sure the food gets to the NK citizens. Let China or Russia monitor the hand-outs or something.

I'm really starting to doubt they have nuclear technology at this point. If they aren't smart enough to feed their own people they probably aren't smart enough to put together a nuclear device.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm really starting to doubt they have nuclear technology at this point. If they aren't smart enough to feed their own people they probably aren't smart enough to put together a nuclear device.

The people aren't starving because the government is dumb. The people are starving because the government allocates its resources to its military first.

 

[JayDubya]

People really need to get over the "What if they bomb Seoul?" thing.

As of right now, with our troops in S. Korea and a defensive alliance?

What would probably happen is total war with the U.S. until there is no North Korea, possibly / probably with the use of nuclear weapons.

 

[iNvid02]

this is a good opportunity to negotiate something

 

[TheHeretic]

I'm really starting to doubt they have nuclear technology at this point. If they aren't smart enough to feed their own people they probably aren't smart enough to put together a nuclear device.

The regime puts itself at risk by not feeding people, there isn't enough food, period, and the military and political class gets first dibs.

 

[CrankyJay]

The people aren't starving because the government is dumb. The people are starving because the government allocates its resources to its military first.

I don't know. I think they're dumb.

 

[andycapps]

People really need to get over the "What if they bomb Seoul?" thing.

Explain.

Spoiler

Not that I disagree, this is just a loaded statement

 

[JayDubya]

this is a good opportunity to negotiate something

What do you negotiate about when one side has nothing to offer but military bluster?

All you do is teach that "Perform x units of military bluster" results in "get stuff."

 

[Invisible_Insane]

I'm really starting to doubt they have nuclear technology at this point. If they aren't smart enough to feed their own people they probably aren't smart enough to put together a nuclear device.

You make it sound like the Kim Jong Il has merely forgotten to put food in the bowl. I don't think those two capacities are connected.

As shitty a situation as it is, I can't see how giving aid to NK is anything other than counterproductive.

 

[sn00zer]

I actually got yelled at in a class once, because I made the comment... "Why are we giving them food?"

 

[Niks]

And why come asking the US and Europe? Let China pick up the bill this time.

I think china has its hands full trying to feed 1.3 billion people no?. When China starts asking

Spoiler

demanding

for food/water, thats when the shit will hit the fan.

 

[derder]

Honestly at this rate I'm going to have to get on anti-depressants. If something as simple as food is being politicised/debated, there is no hope for this world

It doesn't go to the people. You have to understand that.

 

[scotcheggz]

I have sympathy for my backwards kin to the north. In some way, I kind of admire the "FucK you, we can do anything, because we are Korean!" attitude they have towards the Western world. On the other hand, they're fucking up.

Personally, I think we should wait and see how the transition goes. Or start up Unit 684 Part 2: Electric Bugaloo.

I think this will be a critical time for NK. Depending on how they handle it, it could either be a blessing or a curse for the west. If the senior people in the regime are more in touch with the people than they let on, they could use it as a way to reassure the unrest thats going on outside Pyongyang, if they aren't and are all as brainwashed as the common conception would believe I think it could be the catalyst that the people need.

I think they'll use it to their advantage though and trumpet it as a new era blah blah yada yada though.

I strongly advise everybody with even a passing interest in the subject to watch the following video:

The Cleanest Race: How North Koreans See Themselves and Why It Matters.

Thanks for this, I saw it posted on here before, but lost the link, I wanted to show one of my friends.

 

[scorcho]

I think china has its hands full trying to feed 1.3 billion people no?. When China starts asking

Spoiler

demanding

for food/water, thats when the shit will hit the fan.

I'm sure many of the technocrats in Beijing feel that North Korea is their Israel. So long as it prevents a large influx of refugees trying to stream across the border, China is mostly game to appeasing Kim Jong Il's wishes.

fake edit: i see this analogy has already been mined! http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/06/01/im_standing_behind_my_analogy

 

[Frester]

If they reformed and stopped investing in their military like idiots, there would be no food problem.

Anyway, if we don't give them food, there will be a revolution, and the regime will be eliminated and the Koreas reunited. So there's your answer.

For shortages always = revolution. Always.

One of my professors in college joked that the French Revolution was caused by milk and bread prices.

 

[norinrad]

One of my professors in college joked that the French Revolution was caused by milk and bread prices.

He was on to something

 

[Invisible_Insane]

One of my professors in college joked that the French Revolution was caused by milk and bread prices.

Is that a joke? I think I've seen a couple of studies that indicate political turmoil is usually preceded by a spike in the price of staple foods.

I don't have any such hopes for NK, though.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Christ, it seems like North Korea's foreign policy can be summarized in one image:

One of my professors in college joked that the French Revolution was caused by milk and bread prices.

Uh, yeah. That's how most revolutions start.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Beggars can't be choosers. If North Korea needs help, they need to accept it in whatever form it comes, and they can't place any stipulations.

The US has every right to insist on better transparency in its distribution, and it worries me that the UN doesn't have the same discretion.

 

[Frester]

Is that a joke? I think I've seen a couple of studies that indicate political turmoil is usually preceded by a spike in the price of staple foods.

I don't have any such hopes for NK, though.

The joke was that price hikes were the sole cause of the Revolution.

 

[Filta]

Negotiating with North Korea is difficult to start out with. We don't have embassies there and go through the Swiss to even get a message to them. As its been said before in the thread, Kim Jung or whomever is in charge would just take the food and give it to their military. They could careless about the people starving, its all about serving "Dear Leader." "Dear Leader" lives in luxury while its people starve and the state has done such a good job of brainwashing they believe anything that the state tells them.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

The joke was that price hikes were the sole cause of the Revolution.

Do you mean "only" or is that a pun? If it's the latter, I'm trying, but I don't see it.

 

[Alucrid]

When K-Illzle dies I hope his son just says, "fuck this shit" and doesn't continue their direction. Of course I guess you would have to convince the military leaders too..

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Do you mean "only" or is that a pun? If it's the latter, I'm trying, but I don't see it.

I doubt it was, but sole is a type of fish, and is delicious.

 

[Frester]

Do you mean "only" or is that a pun? If it's the latter, I'm trying, but I don't see it.

Only. They were definitely a factor but arguing that food prices alone caused the Revolution would be stupid.

Edit: unintentional puns FTW

 

[Wazzim]

Stop being so xenophobic and we'll talk.

 

[Ikael]

Considering how the regime has proven in the past again and again and again that they use the food aid just as a bargain to coherce its own population into obedience, witholding food and distributing it as they see fit depending of your degree of "loyalty", the world is between a rock (mass famine, death) and a hard place (supporting a genocidical regime).

 

[bengraven]

I posted this story on Facebook and shockingly, the right wing members of my family think we should feed them a big, fat atom bomb.






Then again, they also think we need to destroy the entire Middle East, Japan, China, hell anything Oriental, Russia, definitely Africa because apparently it's dangerous there, and my eldest uncle once said that if Europe doesn't support us, we should bomb them too.

So my old Reaganite family thinks the planet should only have the Americas and Australia.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I posted this story on Facebook and shockingly, the right wing members of my family think we should feed them a big, fat atom bomb.

I am sure everyone in East Asia will be thankful for the fallout.

Then again, they also think we need to destroy the entire Middle East, Japan, China, hell anything Oriental, Russia, definitely Africa because apparently it's dangerous there, and my eldest uncle once said that if Europe doesn't support us, we should bomb them too.

So my old Reaganite family thinks the planet should only have the Americas and Australia.

Randy Newman agrees.

 

[bengraven]

I am sure everyone in East Asia will be thankful for the fallout.

Read my edit. haha

 

[vas_a_morir]

So my old Reaganite family thinks the planet should only have the Americas and Australia.

What? The UK has been down to ride wit us for a century. Also, they are ethnic British, just like I presume your Reaganite family is. They probably don't include UK with Europe, actually, now that I think about it.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Anyone else think that lil Kim is crazy enough to initiate nuclear conflict from his deathbed, rather than hand over power to his son?

 

[Big-E]

Ah man, I am going back to North Eastern China in one of the bigger cities that is relatively close to the North Korean border. I don't want to have to experience 10 million refugees please. Difficult situation on how to proceed. Letting a people starve is not the noblest thing but it could lead to a regime change but if there is anywhere I can believe that people wouldn't revolt over starvation, it's the North Koreans.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

So my old Reaganite family thinks the planet should only have the Americas and Australia.

Why spare Australia? That place is more dangerous than Africa. They have all those snakes, and sea wasps, and have you seen the fucking spiders?!?!

 

[Poyunch]

 

[vas_a_morir]

Why spare Australia? That place is more dangerous than Africa. They have all those snakes, and sea wasps, and have you seen the fucking spiders?!?!

Oh, shit... The spiders!　To the top of the Nuke list!

 

[Einbroch]

Christ, it seems like North Korea's foreign policy can be summarized in one image:

Except that makes me laugh.

 

[jax (old)]

There's a line btw the people and the regime but I gotta say fuck if my first reaction isnt "STARVE"

the poor populace. ah well, overthrow the freaking government. You guys should have done that ages ago.