North Korea just shelled them some South Korea

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Someone just asked Steve Herman (W7VOA) if it is fair to say that the US is about to conduct military operations and he said "no it isn't"
 
Smiles and Cries said:
they can fire one and take down an aircraft and claim it violated their airspace, these are they crazy games they play well at
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Yeah, I edited my last post to say just this. I fully expect them to use it as a false justification. If the U.S. responds immediately with a strike against NK positions, there are enough people in the world who will believe/support the NK narrative--or the possibility of that narrative--that it could cause problems for us.
 
Meadows said:
Someone just asked Steve Herman (W7VOA) if it is fair to say that the US is about to conduct military operations and he said "no it isn't"
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S.Korea will always take the lead in any operation while the US plays a support role it makes better politics for Washington
 
Jea Song said:
Can someone write what would be the worst case scenario and the best case scenario in the next 48 hours? Also the most likely scenario
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Worst Case Scenario: DPRK tries to use its diesel submarines to play games against the US surface fleet and their is an incident in response. That's the most likely bad case.

Best Case Scenario: US conducts its exercises and DPRK protests and fires artillery in the region and launches some missiles over Japan again. This is kinda another bad case but this is as bad as I can see it getting while still resulting in a net-zero game for both sides as they both walk away without anyone stepping on anyone else's nads.
 
Just watched a CTV News interview and some university professor dude backed up the view that the situation could very well escalate, but the end result will be a return to diplomacy with NK.
 
EatChildren said:
They're the last remaining relic of an old form of government, but the fact they exists, as strange as it may be, is evidence enough that human civilization as a whole has not completely moved forward.
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Sure, but I would argue that the world never "moved forward"... the US just won the Cold War, and the capitalism and democracy they promoted actually seems to make for decently open and prosperous societies. We didn't move forward so much as the US moved the world forward via dominance :P
 
Mindlog said:
Worst case scenario: In response to retaliatory destruction of its artillery or missile batteries NK begins shelling Seoul.

Best case scenario: Kim Sun-il announces his desire for a formal peace treaty. He intends to disarm and open NK with the long term goal of peaceful re-unification. A herculean humanitarian effort begins to help the North Koreans.

Most likely: Amid great pomp and circumstance Kim Sun-il assumes control of North Korea. Sabre rattling continues and talks are not resumed. Some time passes then NK 'makes concessions' and receives aid.

cycle repeats
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I just googled Kim Sun-Il... why would you do that? :(
 
My immense aplogies. I'm on another board discussing this very topic and I had the wrong name in my clipboard. I was referring to Kim Jong-un.

Kim Sun-il's name came up in a discussion about the Christian missionaries trying to aid North Korean refugees.

Related book- Escaping North Korea: Defiance and Hope in the World's Most Repressive Country
 
BocoDragon said:
Sure, but I would argue that the world never "moved forward"... the US just won the Cold War, and the capitalism and democracy they promoted actually seems to make for decently open and prosperous societies. We didn't move forward so much as the US moved the world forward via dominance :P
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This I can agree with.
 
Mindlog said:
My immense aplogies. I'm on another board discussing this very topic and I had the wrong name in my clipboard. I was referring to Kim Jong-un.

Kim Sun-il's name came up in a discussion about the Christian missionaries trying to aid North Korean refugees.

Related book- Escaping North Korea: Defiance and Hope in the World's Most Repressive Country
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Oh, it's all right. It's my fault for following a link in one of the first few search results. It's like watching a train wreck. Well, it's actually much more gruesome than that, but that was the first analogy that came to mind. :/
 
EatChildren said:
I would condemn anybody seriously suggesting America, or anybody for that matter, ham fist their way into the country and force a new political reign. Especially anybody suggesting that someone drop the nukes. Unless the situation escalated to an unfathomable and uncontrollable level of war, where nukes were the only option, a nuclear strike on North Korea should be considered nothing less than the most heinous of war crimes.
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I for one never said that was a good idea. And certainly a nuclear strike would be just as devastating to the South given the fact that they are right next to each other. A nuclear strike of any kind against NK would be a really bad idea, unless you didn't care about hurting the other side that NK is attacking, which defeats the purpose of dropping the bomb in the first place.

Yeah, their leaders may be far removed and incompetent through no fault of their own, but it's just surprising that, say, China or Russia haven't tried to step in and encourage Dear Leader to at least get the ball rolling on NK becoming more of a modern nation. Surely they know the benefits of adapting to the modern world and would be the best at explaining them to NK.
 
Diablos said:
I for one never said that was a good idea. And certainly a nuclear strike would be just as devastating to the South given the fact that they are right next to each other. A nuclear strike of any kind against NK would be a really bad idea, unless you didn't care about hurting the other side that NK is attacking, which defeats the purpose of dropping the bomb in the first place.
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Just so you know I wasn't directing that statement at you. Just the general nuclear discussion that had arisen.
 
They are out of their frickin minds:
The army and people of the DPRK are now greatly enraged at the provocation of the puppet group while getting fully ready to give a shower of dreadful fire and blow up the bulwark of the enemies if they dare to encroach again upon the DPRK's dignity and sovereignty even in the least.

The group should not run amuck, clearly understanding the will and mettle of the highly alerted army and people of the DPRK to wipe out the enemies.

Escalated confrontation would lead to a war and he who is fond of playing with fire is bound to perish therein.

Gone are the days when verbal warnings are served only.
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http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2010/201011/news26/20101126-05ee.html
 
aswedc said:
That's an official release? Where do they even learn to write like that?

It reads like they've developed their own version of English from not having had contact with a real native speaker for decades.
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That release is as much for the citizens of North Korea to read as it is for anyone else to. I have been told by several Korean people that the reason they do a lot of what you see there is to give multiple adjectives and descriptions for the public to use among themselves and if they happen to be interviewed on-camera by anyone. If you notice state-sponsored or controlled videos with an average North Korean citizen, you'll notice that they actually DO speak like that, albeit in Korean. You should read some of the press releases where North Korea describes itself. They frequently use the phrase "glorious people's republic" and "the brilliant leader" when referring to North Korea or Kim Jong-Il. Just another form of control for them to exert.
 
nyong said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Central_News_Agency

http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm

Their website looks like something out of the Geocities days. But yeah, this is their official press release. Makes one re-think the whole "rational player" business, doesn't it?
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Not really. That's just how a military-first state which portrays itself as under siege by an outside world would write. It's not as if if Kim is angrily ranting at some guy with a typewriter. "We will not back down, we are strong and triumphant" is the party line, so of course they write like that.

To be sure... the state structure is kind of insane (50+ years of siege mentality plus the fall of all communist allies will do that), but the people involved are likely rational players.
 
If you'd like an idea of how insane North Korea's state of affairs is I cannot recommend this documentary highly enough. Click here. There are previous segments of it but this is where it started getting truly interesting.
 
Why is everyone's quoted text showing up as garbled text for me?

edit: oh fuck not this crap again
 
Crisis said:
If you'd like an idea of how insane North Korea's state of affairs is I cannot recommend this documentary highly enough. Click here. There are previous segments of it but this is where it started getting truly interesting.
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Yeah, those are great. Really makes you feel bad for these people. Makes you want to help them.
 
BocoDragon said:
To be sure... the state structure is kind of insane (50+ years of siege mentality plus the fall of all communist allies will do that), but the people involved are likely rational players.
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I don't know. The incredibly amateur website design and writing strike me as uneducated at least, and certainly not as thought-out/reasoned as something even Ann Coulter would bother saying. There isn't a shred of logic or the slightest hint of rational thought to be had in those articles. It's one-dimensional, highly-inflammatory rhetoric. Which is pretty much par for North Korean politics.

They butcher a few Americans with axes who are trying to cut down a Christmas Tree, shoot down a South Korean airliner, sink a ship, lob 170 (!) mortars at a civilian population center, and it's "Silly Kim, throwing a tantrum for food aid." People don't seem to get it. These aren't rational responses. I mean, they're backed into a corner. Sure. This coupled with their isolation might help explain their posturing. It doesn't, however, explain their action. Which is, quite simply, "give us what we want or we're going to kill people." Rinse and repeat, ad nauseum. It's no more rational than a terrorist threatening to blow an airliner (which they've done) or some sociopath holding a group of innocents hostage at gun point. Yeah, on some level all involved have taken calculated action/risk to get what they want. That doesn't make them rational players capable of playing the same political game as the rest of us, though.
 
JohnTinker said:
Uh

RT @W7VOA: #ROK gov't in text message orders all journalists to leave Yeonpyeong. #Koreas
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A precaution rather than a response to anything in particular I'd imagine. Imagine if something did happen and they let them stay and an AP or BBC journo died. S Korea would be in deep shit.
 
Meadows said:
A precaution rather than a response to anything in particular I'd imagine. Imagine if something did happen and they let them stay and an AP or BBC journo died. S Korea would be in deep shit.
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Not really. Journalists die for much less, SK's gov wouldn't be blamed in any way really.

Reuters: #ROK defense ministry advises all journalists to leave Yeonpyeong as the "situation is bad." #Koreas
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nyong said:
I don't know. The incredibly amateur website design and writing strike me as uneducated at least, and certainly not as thought-out/reasoned as something even Ann Coulter would bother saying. There isn't a shred of logic or the slightest hint of rational thought to be had in those articles. It's one-dimensional, highly-inflammatory rhetoric. Which is pretty much par for North Korean politics.

They butcher a few Americans with axes who are trying to cut down a Christmas Tree, shoot down a South Korean airliner, sink a ship, lob 170 (!) mortars at a civilian population center, and it's "Silly Kim, throwing a tantrum for food aid." People don't seem to get it. These aren't rational responses. I mean, they're backed into a corner. Sure. This coupled with their isolation might help explain their posturing. It doesn't, however, explain their action. Which is, quite simply, "give us what we want or we're going to kill people." Rinse and repeat, ad nauseum. It's no more rational than a terrorist threatening to blow an airliner (which they've done) or some sociopath holding a group of innocents hostage at gun point. Yeah, on some level all involved have taken calculated action/risk to get what they want. That doesn't make them rational players capable of playing the same political game as the rest of us, though.
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Well you have a point. What's the difference anyway between crazy people acting in a crazy state structure or rational people acting in a crazy state structure. Maybe rational agents would have moved to reform long ago?

I simply submit that there is a logic to how they operate, and they're not intentionally self-destructive mad men acting on a whim. Everything they do makes sense in regard to preserving their power under their long stated doctrines. When you're in a roomfull of generals, suggesting reform is probably not an option given everything that came before. Strength comes first under their declared state structure. It's their only asset, and thus, their only "rational" option. It would take serious crises to choose another path.
 
Some pics:

Yeonpyeong residents and soldiers flee to shelters after artillery alerts earlier today:

00221917dead0e5c215713.jpg


Remaining residents take shelter in the bunker:

00221917dead0e5c22124b.jpg


A SK sailor keeps an eye on the North Korean border:

00221917dead0e5c0d3a60.jpg


From China Daily
 
Holy fuck do the North Koreans know how to give a press release. That language is so over the top I don't know if it is something completely beautiful or amateurish. For the next one they need to include Picard's line from First Contact.
 
Big-E said:
Holy fuck do the North Koreans know how to give a press release. That language is so over the top I don't know if it is something completely beautiful or amateurish. For the next one they need to include Picard's line from First Contact.
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They never heard about a Picard.
 
Big-E said:
Holy fuck do the North Koreans know how to give a press release. That language is so over the top I don't know if it is something completely beautiful or amateurish. For the next one they need to include Picard's line from First Contact.
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If it weren't about something extremely fucking serious I would be tempted to provide a dramatic reading.
 
Crisis said:
If you'd like an idea of how insane North Korea's state of affairs is I cannot recommend this documentary highly enough. Click here. There are previous segments of it but this is where it started getting truly interesting.
Click to expand...

So I just watched this and then watched the Liberia one and holy shit North Korea looked like a walk in the park. I couldn't even make it through the whole Liberia one.
 
aswedc said:
That's an official release? Where do they even learn to write like that?

It reads like they've developed their own version of English from not having had contact with a real native speaker for decades.
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There was a Slate article a few years back about the manuals that the North Korean government were distributing, and how they were essentially gee-willickers American slang.
 
Dice said:
If it weren't about something extremely fucking serious I would be tempted to provide a dramatic reading.
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cool idea :lol

You need an ultra dramatic hip hop sample in the background :lol
 
ONLY ONE WAY TO STOP THIS CRISIS
INTRODUCE NORTH KOREA TO STARCRAFT 2
BLANKET SEOUL AND PYONGYANG WITH HORSE TRANQUILIZER AEROSOL WHILE THEY PLAY
 
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
So I just watched this and then watched the Liberia one and holy shit North Korea looked like a walk in the park. I couldn't even make it through the whole Liberia one.
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Well the thing about North Korea is that no one has seen the real inside except shell shocked prison guards who managed to escape(and others)

Everything else is just really creepy 'everything is really okay here guys' guided tours.
 
BudokaiMR2 said:
Well the thing about North Korea is that no one has seen the real inside except shell shocked prison guards who managed to escape(and others)

Everything else is just really creepy 'everything is really okay here guys' guided tours.
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The girl at the tea shop was the saddest part :(
 
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
So I just watched this and then watched the Liberia one and holy shit North Korea looked like a walk in the park. I couldn't even make it through the whole Liberia one.
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Cross dressing cannibals ... THIS PLACE IS FUCKED UP.
 
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
So I just watched this and then watched the Liberia one and holy shit North Korea looked like a walk in the park. I couldn't even make it through the whole Liberia one.
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The sadest part is both countries are totally in this mess because of the US :lol

Liberia even more so
 
BocoDragon said:
Sure, but I would argue that the world never "moved forward"... the US just won the Cold War, and the capitalism and democracy they promoted actually seems to make for decently open and prosperous societies. We didn't move forward so much as the US moved the world forward via dominance :P
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It never did. I made a number of post on this issue. After the end of the cold war, there were some historians, notably Fukiyama et. al who called the epoch 'the end of history'

But as others subsequently argued, history merely continued. The strange paradox is, during the cold war, history, at least in the Northern hemisphere between the US/Russia and their respective satellites and allies, more of less 'stopped' to pay homage to the confrontation.

Of course in the 3rd world, in the periphery of these two great empires, there was no peace at all. Niall Ferguson argued World War III already happened, and it happened in Vietnam, Guatemala, Afghanistan and other parts of the world where cold war proxy wars were fought in very 'hot' wars. And to the local populations, the cold war was never really cold.
 
Salazar said:
Any Australian who used to watch Stan Grant on SBS can tell you what an epic dickface he is.
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is that the dude in the video this is the second South Korea report I've seen and he was so hyped when he walked through some burnt out houses

I'm thinking this guy is praying war breaks out so he can be in the middle of it all so he can run his mouth
 
Smiles and Cries said:
I'm thinking this guy is praying war breaks out so he can be in the middle of it all so he can run his mouth
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Yeah, he ran away from his wife with another reporter (milf to the extreme) - then made a kind of comeback on Australian tv, and then bailed to CNN.
 
Wii said:
ONLY ONE WAY TO STOP THIS CRISIS
INTRODUCE NORTH KOREA TO STARCRAFT 2
BLANKET SEOUL AND PYONGYANG WITH HORSE TRANQUILIZER AEROSOL WHILE THEY PLAY
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I am absolutely thrilled that you are a junior now.
 
Yeah, Stan Grant is a cunt. Loves the sound of his own voice, though you're not too sure if it's coming out of his mouth or his anus.
 
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