unholyrevenger72
Banned
all that oil is all profit now.
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Norway to ban new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025
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all that oil is all profit now.
That's like the old saying "what I do doesn't matter" for people who don't care about the climate. Of course it matters. It doesn't matter as much as China, but it still does. Every piece counts. And some day it will have to happen globally, so starting the chain of events is not a bad thing.
There are already zero emission trucks running in Norway - companies switching their fleet to zero emission trucks.
It does need to happen, nobody is saying it doesn't. But technology and practical issues limit how fast it can be done in most of the world.
Daffy Duck
Member
So invest in spares for petrol powered cars and rare models of petrol carthe only cars I like that I can afford are 30 years old at the least anyway.
What does Norway's electricity generation look like, what will be charging all these cars?
Today around 98% comes from hydroelectricity, and it wouldn't be too much of a problem surpassing 100% steadily, that does of course have some negative impacts on nature surrounding any future dams.
The newspaper frontpage is also a bit misleading. They won't actually ban gas/diesel cars, they hope that technology has advanced enough that no one really would need it, also probably heavier taxed vs. more incentives for buying zero emission cars. This goal does also not include bigger long haul trucks and other areas where zero emission vehicles still need some time to catch up.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Why wouldn't they? It's the most natural thing in the world
Dirtyshubb
Member
Country announces shocking law that is a massive step in the world taking actions against one of the world's biggest pollutants - many posters can only focus on a purse that looks like a vagina.
SMH
SMH
Oh please...
If no one starts putting bans on non-electric vehicles how do you hope others follow along? Banning sales also doesn't mean all the one that are still there are going to be trashed.
By the time all the categories you mentioned (trucks, ambulances, etc.) have to be replaced the industry would have already solved the problem on how replacing them with zero emission vehicles...
The need would drive innovation, you think really if we had a shortage and we couldn't buy petrol based ones we would remain without ambulances and firetrucks?
And what would the problem again in making these kind of vehicles? Making bigger motors and putting more batteries under the chassis? Hardly an impossible feat even today.
The sooner stricter regulations come the better.
BananasWithGuns
Member
My first thought as well.
iPaul93
Member
But no one is banning all non-electric vehicles. That would be a technological lock in.
The sales ban is about petrol and diesel fueled cars. There are many other options to power vehicles besides electricity such as natural gas, SNG, methane, hydrogen or fuel cells.
CadetMahoney
Member
It's European Meiki/Fleshlight ripoff.
Which consist in what? 90% of the sales worldwide? They are also the most polluting ones.
In a perfect world the ban would be on all non electric ones but as i said before you have to start from somewhere...
The other options you mentioned are either more polluting or less practical (even if i admit i have no idea what SNG is).
Nice. They are small enough and can offer electric car subsidies easily enough with the oil money they've been sitting on too.
Still be able to buy used cars for decades to come and I imagine people will still be importing new cars unless they're banning that too.
Go to Flam. Lovely place.
Still be able to buy used cars for decades to come and I imagine people will still be importing new cars unless they're banning that too.
Go to Flam. Lovely place.
Sidewinder
Member
Wow in 9 years? Never gonna happen, but hot damn if they really go through with it, would be awesome!
Other countries need to follow too, the automobile industry has to be forced to move forward. But will we have enough materials to build hundreds of millions car batteries at non prohibitive prices??
Other countries need to follow too, the automobile industry has to be forced to move forward. But will we have enough materials to build hundreds of millions car batteries at non prohibitive prices??
Mr. Pointy
Member
Well, good on them if they go through with it. I'll be unsurprised if they push the date back though.
Bedameister
Member
That's very ambitious but if they can make it thant that would be amazing. Hope it works.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Even if it doesnt work out, just the attempt is worthy of admiration.
You do realise that Humans will most likely go extinct unless the timeline for these things are sooner right?
Electric cars just aren't viable yet though. For me they're utterly useless.
I work 75 miles away and pretty much every electric car on sale in the UK today has a sub-100 mile range. I could get to work, but not back again, and there's no charging points anywhere near where I work to use.
Until electric cars generally have a range of 300+ miles at a minimum then I just don't see something like this being at all viable.
I think Norway is going to run into this same problem. I used to work for a Norwegian company and it was very common for people to own (or have a 'timeshare' type ownership) of remote mountain cabins that were several hours drive from major civilisation. Somehow I doubt electric car charging points are going to be commonplace in such locations.
Personally, I don't think electric cars have a long term future. The electricity generated is most likely still coming from non-renewable sources anyway so you're just moving the problem along, not solving it, since all you're doing is putting more strain on the general power grid. I think hydrogen is a much better alternative and is where the focus should be.
I work 75 miles away and pretty much every electric car on sale in the UK today has a sub-100 mile range. I could get to work, but not back again, and there's no charging points anywhere near where I work to use.
Until electric cars generally have a range of 300+ miles at a minimum then I just don't see something like this being at all viable.
I think Norway is going to run into this same problem. I used to work for a Norwegian company and it was very common for people to own (or have a 'timeshare' type ownership) of remote mountain cabins that were several hours drive from major civilisation. Somehow I doubt electric car charging points are going to be commonplace in such locations.
Personally, I don't think electric cars have a long term future. The electricity generated is most likely still coming from non-renewable sources anyway so you're just moving the problem along, not solving it, since all you're doing is putting more strain on the general power grid. I think hydrogen is a much better alternative and is where the focus should be.
I genuinely expect the USA to burn the last drops of oil/petrol/gasoline on the planet before they stop.
I'm sure a few forward thinking States will get there a bit earlier.
It doesn't sound too far-fetched for Norway, but I'm sure there will be exemptions to begin with for certain specialist vehicles, etc.
Why extinct?
King Gilga
Member
What about motorcycles? Individually they create more pollution than a car since everyone and their mother replaces the stock exhaust with a cat with a new aftermarket system that doesn't have a cat converter.
Is it hypocritical for a sugar cane farmer not to eat sugar?
Unfathomability
Neo Member
Electric cars are currently only 2,6% of privately owned cars in Norway (which is still one of the highest percentages in the world).
But many analysts are predicting a major boom - Norway has the third oldest "population" of cars in Europe, only beaten by Slovakia and Estonia, with an average age of 10,5 years. That means that a lot of people will be looking to upgrade in the coming years, and beneficial subsidies for electric and penalties for petrol and diesel might convince many people to go electric.
But many analysts are predicting a major boom - Norway has the third oldest "population" of cars in Europe, only beaten by Slovakia and Estonia, with an average age of 10,5 years. That means that a lot of people will be looking to upgrade in the coming years, and beneficial subsidies for electric and penalties for petrol and diesel might convince many people to go electric.
It's not - it is an article about the drug many call "viagra for women". It reads "The Lust-prescription. A new drug is supposed to get women's sex drive going. But is it that easy? pp. 10-19". Without having read the entire article, it sounds sceptical, which lines up with the rest of the reporting I've seen about the drug. The picture is as others have pointed out a coin purse with a pill in it - not exactly the imagery an advertiser would choose, and advertisement of perscription drugs is illegal in Norway anyway.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Good luck with that
I meant to stress that battery powered cars are not the only alternative. SNG is synthetic natural gas. Theoretically methane can be produced synthetically using water, air captured CO2 and electricity. If the electricity used is from renewable sources such as wind or sun, this gas is technically carbon neutral. Same goes for hydrogen.
I just mention this to introduce possible future alternatives to electric batteries.
Most electricity in Norway is produced from renewables. But its exported.
*You* might not go extinct, Kab, but we can't outrun the wave of freezing air from Day After Tomorrow in order to make it safely it to Mexico if there's a giant wall in the way.
But I can survive the freezing air chasing me by burning my tax law books, and then Chinooks fly in and save me from the rooftop. Maybe you can too!
These are already, excepting delivery vans, not considered in the same legal fiction as regular cars anyway. Fire trucks alone are not even technically road legal, but they're government vehicles and people like their house not burning down so nobody cares that they're overweight on each axle and have poor safety features.
But we'll figure out how to get those electric eventually. Those all used to be horse drawn until engines got big enough to transport them. Once an electric engine gets there, then they'll transition over too.
The point/benefit of electric cars is that it doesn't matter how the electricity got generated. Electricity is electricity. Meaning yes, electric cars are powered by non renewables, but you can switch out the generation method with something else at any time and don't have to wait and convince everyone to replace their cars to get the benefits or go on about "but my engine sounds!"... you just wake up one day and everyone is driving on completely renewable energy.
First rule of dealing: never get high off your own supply.
Norwegian Rudo
Member
Nobody is suggesting a ban on sales at all. It's about making non-polluting cars so much more financially attractive that very few people will choose anything else.
Cars in Norway are horrifically expensive because of taxes, so it would be very easy to make "clean" cars much more appealing to buyers.
Cars in Norway are horrifically expensive because of taxes, so it would be very easy to make "clean" cars much more appealing to buyers.
Valkyr1983
Banned
If that ever happened in America ID be pissed
I'm all for options, but no more muscle cars? No thanks. They should Co exist, and people should be able to choose what to drive. Incentivize electric vehicles with tax breaks and whatnot
I'm all for options, but no more muscle cars? No thanks. They should Co exist, and people should be able to choose what to drive. Incentivize electric vehicles with tax breaks and whatnot
It's only too soon because we've been fucking around with procrastinating on it for 3 decades. The planet cannot wait much longer for us to start taking drastic measures.
Sleight of Jam
Banned
No it's not. It's not happening quick enough imo.
Power generated at stations is more efficient than in your car, and its all localised to key locations rather than all over the country, and can be moved to renewables over time easily enough.
With electric every home with a drive can get a charging point easily and you aren't shipping heavy fuel around the country, and the fuel in your car isn't quite as likely to go bang like petrol or hydrogen.
Making hydrogen is also energy expensive.
The larger problems in the world though focus on the fact that half way through this reply I stood up to get to the phone that was ringing. In the 30 seconds I was away from my chair my cat sat down and fell asleep.
PdotMichael
Banned
The battery is still the main problem of such cars.
Replacing petrol and diesel cars with electro cars can only be a first step. Long term solution can only be the end of motorized private transport. That's sadly what many Tesla and co drivers don't get. You guys aren't saving the planet, you just kill the planet at a slower speed.
Replacing petrol and diesel cars with electro cars can only be a first step. Long term solution can only be the end of motorized private transport. That's sadly what many Tesla and co drivers don't get. You guys aren't saving the planet, you just kill the planet at a slower speed.
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